PLD dps needs to be buffed, current dps a joke

I don't even know where to begin with how to voice my worries about a class I've played for over a year (Paladin.)

I am terribly incompetent when it comes to knowing other tanks, or jobs in general for that matter. What we all need to do as players of this game is fucking listen to one another and meet each other half way on ALL of it. That's the only way this clusterfuck of an expansion is ever going to even out (at least until additional classes/jobs are added that make this a 4 tanks/4 healers/8dps.) Any form of odd number will ALWAYS fracture this player base and have one or more roles left out.

The only way I can think in near future with 3/3/7 being not completely abysmal when it concerns the "fairness" of roles is if we are reworked from the ground up to compliment each other like it was (sort of) pre-heavansward. We're at each others throats right now because Trinity doesn't work, we're all terrified.

I apologize for the foul language....sometimes it's just needed though.

This thread still going? :o

Hi! I'm back! Miss me? :p

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sleigh

Shoot, maybe in an alternate universe where A3S turned out like that, instead of topics saying "Buff PLD DPS, its survivability isn't needed!" you'd get topics saying, "Buff DRK's survivability, its DPS doesn't justify how bad it is at surviving A3S!"

---

But, this "alternate universe" is not so alternate when just 4 weeks back these forums were full of "I got kicked because I'm DRK" and "DRKs stop using STR, you're squishy!" and "Please buff DRK survivability" threads.

As I said in most of my posts, DRK is only in a good place because the content allowed for it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Phoenicia

This thread still going? :o

Hi! I'm back! Miss me? :p



But, this "alternate universe" is not so alternate when just 4 weeks back these forums were full of "I got kicked because I'm DRK" and "DRKs stop using STR, you're squishy!" and "Please buff DRK survivability" threads.

As I said in most of my posts, DRK is only in a good place because the content allowed for it.

---

From what my dear friend (I actually mean that, not just as a phrase,) who plays a Dark Knight and has dabbled in INT accessories since "magic tank," says his AOE damage has practically doubled, which means he heals more as well. Granted this is seemingly more along the lines of 4 man content utility, but it's interesting.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shining_Tiger_Excalibur

From what my dear friend (I actually mean that, not just as a phrase,) who plays a Dark Knight and has dabbled in INT accessories since "magic tank," says his AOE damage has practically doubled, which means he heals more as well. Granted this is seemingly more along the lines of 4 man content utility, but it's interesting.

---

lol! Experimenting with INT, now that's brave! I shall give it a shot on a dummy for funsies.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Shining_Tiger_Excalibur

From what my dear friend (I actually mean that, not just as a phrase,) who plays a Dark Knight and has dabbled in INT accessories since "magic tank," says his AOE damage has practically doubled, which means he heals more as well. Granted this is seemingly more along the lines of 4 man content utility, but it's interesting.

---

Your friend is very mistaken. I just tested this on a dummy, all DRK damage scales with strength. Equipping any INT accessory lowers you damage, equipping all INT accessories lowers you damage a lot. I'm also not sure how he "heals more" doing more magic damage, unless you mean DA+Abyssal Drain.

My most sincere apologies then, for spreading misinformation out of ignorance.

So returning to my thread and still seeing darks and wars that think plds are fine,

I will state why these two classes pretend that plds dps is fine its simple 2 tank slots per duty end of story so if dark is superior to pld which it is atm in most cases then you would go war+war or drk+war.

If plds got buffed to be equal to dark magic migration and similar dps then there would be more fights cause only 2 tank slots 3 tank classes. but just cause only 2 tank slots doesn't mean tank classes should be so far aprt with the exception of warrior.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Valkyrie-Amber

So returning to my thread and still seeing darks and wars that think plds are fine,

If plds got buffed to be equal to dark magic migration and similar dps then there would be more fights cause only 2 tank slots 3 tank classes.

---

No lol dont buff PLD. Drk hits hard because he uses one two-hand sword. It would be ridiculous seeing a pld doing the same damage as drk. PLD's damage is fine, i wont cri if they buff us though, but what we really need are adjusments in our skills and fighting style aka send him to the fun dep.

oh but the fact is dark has the exact same migration as a pld and also did you know they are tank classes?

also on top of this darks superior magic defense too so superior dps sameish physical migration unless rng gives you a tone of shield blocks and the fact darks also have superior magic defense.

Sorry but your view on balance is stupid atleast wars are actually alil more glassy so their extra dps is fine darks is not unless they get defense nerfed midrange between pld and war then I would be fine.

make mobs hit a lot harder physical and plds would be ok but that's not the case is alex savage magic damage and tank superiority not balance.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Valkyrie-Amber

oh but the fact is dark has the exact same migration as a pld and also did you know they are tank classes?

also on top of this darks superior magic defense too so superior dps sameish physical migration unless rng gives you a tone of shield blocks and the fact darks also have superior magic defense.

Sorry but your view on balance is stupid atleast wars are actually alil more glassy so their extra dps is fine darks is not unless they get defense nerfed midrange between pld and war then I would be fine.

---

Exact same mitigation? PLD gets a shield, Bulwark (DRK gets Dark Dance but that's still inferior), Sheltron, and a better Sentinel and immortality CD. Some fights this stuff isn't that helpful, mainly A4S, but otherwise it's certainly not negligible.

DRK's in a better spot for various reasons but don't pretend DRK's mitigating quite like a PLD is. It goes doubly so when you attempt to tank without tank stance, Sword Oath survivability is so far above no Grit DRK it's not even funny. How many of you guys are tanking the final phase of A3S without Grit? I can tell you it's a joke on Sword PLD.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Valkyrie-Amber

oh but the fact is dark has the exact same migration as a pld and also did you know they are tank classes?

also on top of this darks superior magic defense too so superior dps sameish physical migration unless rng gives you a tone of shield blocks and the fact darks also have superior magic defense.

---

Oh im not saying it is fair lol, Drk are better tha PLDs atm. Devs call PLD the tank king, but Drk has the same defense, so what the Devs have to do is give PLD more Def or something that make people think " oh that would be nice". Something that stands out from the other tanks.

dark non grit lol a3s dark dose slightly better dps in grit than pld in sword so please don't try to pretend plds are fine like you just did.

and I mean same skill same geared ilevel.

PLD dps doesnt need to be raised. Its DEF needs to be raised and in so doing it will allow the healers to make up for the lack of dps. PLD should be the undisputed defender of the realm. Im more than happy to give up personal dps for better use of my shield!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Valkyrie-Amber

If plds got buffed to be equal to dark magic migration and similar dps then there would be more fights cause only 2 tank slots 3 tank classes. but just cause only 2 tank slots doesn't mean tank classes should be so far aprt with the exception of warrior.

---

Ehh? As a player who played WAR since 2.0 until 3.0 came out (then I switched to DRK and after that SMN), I'll tell you this my dear friend....

NO BODY CARES about your class if you're a good player with that class. I will ALWAYS take a good PLD into my group over an average DRK ANYDAY.

So no, 2 tank slots in a party is IRRELEVANT as long as people know I'm a good tank.

Heck, DPS aren't crying about DPS when there are 7 classes and only 4 slots in a party.

PLD DPS is FINE, it has other issues that are preventing it from doing its DPS.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Valkyrie-Amber

oh but the fact is dark has the exact same migration as a pld and also did you know they are tank classes?

also on top of this darks superior magic defense too so superior dps sameish physical migration unless rng gives you a tone of shield blocks and the fact darks also have superior magic defense.

Sorry but your view on balance is stupid atleast wars are actually alil more glassy so their extra dps is fine darks is not unless they get defense nerfed midrange between pld and war then I would be fine.

---

You sir/madam, have absolutely NO idea what the tank classes are like.... DRK having the same PHYSICAL mitigation as PLD? Are you joking? LOL

Without CDs, PLD has 5% at least from the shield alone.

ALL of PLD's CDs are SUPERIOR to their equivalent on DRK. Every. Single. One. DRK only has a magical CD that a PLD doesn't have.

And WAR glassy? Are we even playing the same game? WAR has the HIGHEST effective HP due to combined CDs and super self-heals. Effectively, WAR mitigates more than PLD, only issue with WAR is it receives less effective heals (which is where the variance comes from).

You have no idea about the tanks balance if you can't even comprehend how their mitigation works.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Valkyrie-Amber

dark non grit lol a3s dark dose slightly better dps in grit than pld in sword so please don't try to pretend plds are fine like you just did.

and I mean same skill same geared ilevel.

---

Why do you think that? Beyond add phase and taking tethers in tornado phase it's pretty much 100% uptime on the boss, I see no reason why Grit DRK beats Sword PLD considering Sword PLD straight up does more damage. Considerably so. In fact if there's any discrepancy between the two at their core it's that DRK does better in add phase since he can stun oGCD while a PLD has to break their combo if it's needed, but that's just padding considering it's a timed portion of the fight. My group already stands around doing nothing waiting for Pepsiman to respawn for about 5s.

I see clears of 600-700 with a DRK who goes Grit in every phase he tanks, MTing the first part of the fight. PLDs were doing that with less gear going Sword Oath a lot - BG's PLD did more than that IIRC. Honestly if Sword PLD was underperforming Grit DRK then holy moly would I be on the buff train, but I don't see that angle as being remotely true.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Sleigh

Exact same mitigation? PLD gets a shield, Bulwark, Sheltron, and a better Sentinel and immortality CD.

---

Both Block and Parry got nerfed hard in HW, long gone are the days when even kite shields blocked 34% now its pitifull 21% and 28% with tower shields.

All these 1-2-3 I WANT MY DPS HIGH.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Synestra

Both Block and Parry got nerfed hard in HW, long gone are the days when even kite shields blocked 34% now its pitifull 21% and 28% with tower shields.

---

I believe we will get better shields as the expac goes on, so she kinda has a point.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Iamsomeone

All these 1-2-3 I WANT MY DPS HIGH.

---

Well if this is the only reason that holds the job back in terms of balanced DPS amongst other tanks, then go on and add stack mechanic or something.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Doudousteve

I believe we will get better shields as the expac goes on, so she kinda has a point.

---

Even with new shields i doubt it will go high as it used to be, i still dont get it why SE nerfed both block and parry in the firstplace.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Synestra

Even with new shields i doubt it will go high as it used to be, i still dont get it why SE nerfed both block and parry in the firstplace.

---

Sheltron/Raw Intuition

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Synestra

i still dont get it why SE nerfed both block and parry in the firstplace.

---

I figure it has to do with Raw intuition being 100% parry which, if the original parry rules applied would probably be close to 35% damage reduction per parry but they could have easily changed the effect of Raw Intuition to compensate for that as opposed to changing block/parry scaling overall.

This is a bit off topic but its a shame those defensive stats (parry/block/VIT) don't have more value for tanks. It'd be something interesting if VIT increased Parry Rate / Block Rate and the amount they block. That might even go a long way towards making Paladin a more defense oriented tank i.e. Warriors would still be inclined to stack STR cause moar DPS while paladins could stack VIT as a means to increase their mitigation. Just thinking out loud. Don't pick it apart and tell me why it wont work. Let me dream people. . . let me dream.

#LetItBe

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

Sheltron/Raw Intuition

---

So they nerfed passive migitation via block just to make one rather lackluster skill to be usefull? well thats kinda lame. And parry nerf could have been avoided by not making RI 100% but instead something like Dark Dance(maybe 50% chance or so).

Oh wow this one is still going huh? Well keep her going! I bet my assistant manager at work ( plays wow but finds this amusing) that this will reach 100 pages!!!

Come on! I have £5 riding on this!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Synestra

So they nerfed passive migitation via block just to make one rather lackluster skill to be usefull? well thats kinda lame. And parry nerf could have been avoided by not making RI 100% but instead something like Dark Dance(maybe 50% chance or so).

---

This is just something I've assumed, but from what I can gather they wanted to give WAR a physical-only Rampart, and PLD a physical-only IB. This was their way of doing that. PLD already has Bulwark, so another % increase chance of blocking would be kind of redundant and a % increase to Parry rate would be about as useful as Foresight (unless it was something like Bulwark, and even then it'd be extremely questionable). Block didn't get hit nearly as bad as Parry, though, so Sheltron will still be a really strong CD whenever physical tank busters come back into play.

If were by me I'll buff PLD in this way:

Shield Bash
Type: Ability
Cooldown: 15s
I don't really see a reason to be a Weaponskill. Stun Lock is not a thing, wasting 450 TP to keep a enemy Stun I rather coordinate stuns with another character. 99.9 of bosses can no be stuned as an Ability can be used several times per minute increasing DPS

Shield Swipe
Type: Ability
Cooldown: 30s
Just no, now with 3 diferent combos you don't have time tu use Shield Swipe because you will broke your rotation and also 99.9 of bosses are immune to Pasification

Flash
Potency: 50
FF14 PLD are just in name they don't have any Holy/Magic damage skill.

Sword Oath
Recast: 5s
Description: Deals additional damage with a potency of 65 after each auto-attack.
If used with Shield Oath Slowly drains MP.
If used with Shield Oath MP refreshing statuses have no effect.
Increasing the Potency is just a minor thing. The real meat is using Sword & Shield Oath at same time, It's not as strong as DK combo and just have a drawback while using booth at same time.

Shield Oath
Recast: 5s
If used with Sword Oath Slowly drains MP.
If used with Sword Oath MP refreshing statuses have no effect.
Read Above

Royal Authority
Combo Bonus: All Auto-Attacks Crits for 25s. (Do not affect extra attack from Sword Oath.)
Sword Oath is a DPS Stance that buff Auto-Attack and this is the DPS combo so buffing Auto-Attack fit theme

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

Block didn't get hit nearly as bad as Parry, though

---

Stop. You could block for 34% damage in full bis in Final Coil, you could parry for 28%-29%. If you wear a Kite Shield (same as in Final Coil) you block for 21%. Block got hit harder, that's just a fact.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kyne_Lyons

Stop. You could block for 34% damage in full bis in Final Coil, you could parry for 28%-29%. If you wear a Kite Shield (same as in Final Coil) you block for 21%. Block got hit harder, that's just a fact.

---

You can still block as high as 28% with a tower shield, which is better than Parry which will only go to 20% (no more, no less). Block will only get better, Parry will remain the same.

At the lowest rate outside of Sheltron, and only because Tower shields are available. If there are no new tower shields past this tier, then it really won't matter. Kite Shields will probably stop at 25% by the end of the expansion. Besides, there aren't any relevant uses for shields in the game right now so who cares.

EDIT: To address why parry/block values were changed: they had to normalize the values somehow because otherwise we'd be blocking and parrying for a lot right now, someone mentioned it earlier. You'd be Parrying for something like 40% and blocking for upwards of 60%+ with Tower Shields. Noct Hoplon blocked for 40% in i110 Second Coil Gear, imagine what that would look like now, it would be absurd. At the same time, every job in the game is capable of parrying and parry would be incredibly varied on a per-job basis. Monks and Dragoons with Keen Flurry could parry Earthshakers on T13 for 28-31% with their high Strength values whereas Bards parried for 13-15%, I can't remember exactly how much but it was low for them. So as a developer, what do you do? You have to change the way mitigation is calculated for these to give them room to grow again. The difference is that they capped parry at 20% since it's ubiquitous across all jobs and gave Shields room to grow but at a much slower/lower rate than previously. I would argue that abilities like Raw Intuition can exist because they're capped at 20%, and if I had to guess Dark Dance only gives a 30% parry rate increase because Dark Knights have access to -20% damage static on Grit.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SpookyGhost

Block didn't get hit nearly as bad as Parry, though, so Sheltron will still be a really strong CD whenever physical tank busters come back into play.

---

I dunno but DMG blocked went from 34% down to 21% on kite shield seems pretty big to me and yeah parry got even worse than it used to be, also Shelltron is gimped by server lag and animation delay so its not really super reliat on busters(needs pretty flawless timing so random AA wont eat it before big hit)but maybe its not that bad when we get EU data-centers :P

PS: Those who has done pvp as an tank knows that new skill called Push Back, why doesnt parry work similiar way that it reflects physical damage with small potency(5-10)back to enemy. This way it would actually contribute to DPS while also being a migitation stat(yeah RI would become pretty awesome in AoE situations but who cares wars are already awesome :P).

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Comrade_uri

Oh wow this one is still going huh? Well keep her going! I bet my assistant manager at work ( plays wow but finds this amusing) that this will reach 100 pages!!!

Come on! I have £5 riding on this!

---

Doing a dude a favour!

fun fact all tanks parry like 10% more than plds yes we have our shield that probably makes up for that and maybe our total migration is 5-10% at best better to dark and war due to block is better than parry. but does our 3-10% at best better migration make up for darks min 8-16% more dps? small numbers but dps checks every lil bit helps.

While numbers may be close and all everything block parry wise is rng sometimes you may block/parry a tone other times it wont proc for ages. So the fact your crying over that and counting it as our migration is kind of silly block got majorly nerfed.

I love how people don't realize all classes are like 1-2-3 cause you can set the keys like that customizing hud layouts unless you play a monk then you need a tone of positionals but all tanks don't rely on positionals so your argument there is invalid.

I think instead of fixing the DPS that they should do something more in lines of counter damage. Lets say the paladins shield shall absorb damage and gains a counter damage per damage absorbed. So if a paladins shield absorbs 1k damage from an attack it shall auto counter for 10% of damage absorbed. you can always call the trait reflect. Since it is one spell not put into the game. Give paladins the trait reflect which will reflect 10% of the damage absorbed by the shield block. This in turn should be a low level ability received at lets say level 30 and drop the Sword Oath and give the trait reflect which in turn will increase enmity as well. Lets face the fact Sword Oath is the real joke. This should balance out very well since you are not always going to block every attack. This will in turn cause the stat distribution for a pally to be in strength. With this the Paladin will be set apart from the other tanking classes.

@wise, Paladin in FFXI got Reprisal. Damage reflect.

Won't do anything for OT dps but I suggested it often, only for it to be ignored because its useless while offtanking.

PLD DPS fix. Be aggressive and stance dance main while main tanking and wear STR gear.

lol forget stance dancing at all pld sword oath 100% main tank and full str gear still makes pld weakest tank class by a lot at least 150 dps to dark alone if darks only doing say 80% efficiency to pld 100%

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Valkyrie-Amber

lol forget stance dancing at all pld sword oath 100% main tank and full str gear still makes pld weakest tank class by a lot at least 150 dps to dark alone if darks only doing say 80% efficiency to pld 100%

---

Ugh... Mate, you're annoying. Go back to DRG if you wanna do more DPS than DRK. :)

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Comrade_uri

Oh wow this one is still going huh? Well keep her going! I bet my assistant manager at work ( plays wow but finds this amusing) that this will reach 100 pages!!!

Come on! I have £5 riding on this!

---

Yep, I'm also doing this dude a favore. keep the giggles coming and all.

OK so your basing your calculations raid wise on an inanimate object that does no mechanic and has no phase changes. Honestly that 1050+ WAR isn't going to be 1050+ in a raid environment having to throw up defiance, move for mechanics loose DPS on phase changes where bosses can't be attacked. PLD can still pull numbers.

There have been groups who have cleared content with PLD and WAR tank combo also so you can't say "no one uses PLDs"

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaisinel

OK so your basing your calculations raid wise on an inanimate object that does no mechanic and has no phase changes. Honestly that 1050+ WAR isn't going to be 1050+ in a raid environment having to throw up defiance, move for mechanics loose DPS on phase changes where bosses can't be attacked. PLD can still pull numbers.

There have been groups who have cleared content with PLD and WAR tank combo also so you can't say "no one uses PLDs"

---

It's okay, the OP has no idea how the tank classes work. I don't even think those numbers were his. It's just some DRG main who's not impressed with his SwO DPS on a dummy. Someone who's playing the wrong class and asking for it to be the way "they" want it to be. :p

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Kaisinel

OK so your basing your calculations raid wise on an inanimate object that does no mechanic and has no phase changes. Honestly that 1050+ WAR isn't going to be 1050+ in a raid environment having to throw up defiance, move for mechanics loose DPS on phase changes where bosses can't be attacked.

---

Correct. The WAR should now be pulling at least 1100+ with raid buffs. ;D