Terrible Payment System

Of course reading the entire thread can be a drain when it's 560 posts long.

And you're right about Paypal being just as bad. Which is a reason why I refuse to have a paypal account.

But at least Paypal let me pay for service through them with my credit card without requiring me to set up an account with them.

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Envoyé par Elkwood

Ahhh I see now it is my fault they never billed me for anything and I just wanted to close my account. Now see here is where you look like an @$$. C&B never billed me for anything because I do not have a FFXI account. C&B was setup for XIV which after hearing every issue and researching myself I decided I wanted them to have no access to anything of mine. See now there is NO WAY for me to remove my CC info from there system even tho I wanted to, I can add more CC but not remove old ones. They have never deducted 1 cent from my account, so why should i have to wait to have anything removed from there system. I should be able to close my account without fear of loss or revocation. As a consumer I do not have that, as a consumer I now see I must get a new CC because C&B will never remove said information from there system.

So please all knowing and wise man explain to me how anything here is my fault. There was nothing deducted on Sept 3rd, this has nothing to do with last minute transactions or not wanting to pay. This was me being diligent and wanting to cancel before they took any funds for FFXIV as after reading up on C&B I did not trust the system, nor do I any longer believe this game will be worth paying for anytime in the near present, and now you see why.

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You can not remove your only CC from their system because a CC is required for an account. Is that so hard to understand? Apparently it is and so is the user agreement you had to read before you sign up. Next time take 5 minutes to read it before you subscribe to a service using your CC and private information, thats just common sense.

I wonder what you have been "reading up" on them that makes you so angry. It's a perfectly fine and normal payment provider just like paypal. Again, reading up is something you do before you go around giving websites your private information and CC.

You want your account closed, they do it within an acceptable timeframe of 7 - 10 days. There is no loss or revocation if you cancel your account. Like i mentioned before, with paypal you would have to wait 30 days.

I still don't see your problem, you got your account canceled, thats what you wanted. Now be happy and move on to greener pastures.

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Envoyé par Catapult

Of course reading the entire thread can be a drain when it's 560 posts long.

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I believe if someone HONESTLY wants to know why this is an issue and HONESTY is concerned they would take the time to read. People who just come in here saying 'I have no issue, I don't see why you do so explain it to me' when there is a 500+ thread of information explaining (I feel) don't actually care. If they did they would have read and found out what was TRULY concerning other people and how it may or may not effect them. I've read the whole thread because I was concerned about the issues others had brought up.

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Envoyé par KaiKatzchen

Nah this is a almost 600 post thread because there are no issues. -___-

If you read the whole thread from page one, which you obviously haven't since you're asking this, you would have found post upon post of people who have stated:

issues with C&B
fraudulent billing from C&B
EU banks telling their customers not to use C&B due to fraud issues with them
they have a F rating with the BBB
in some countries C&B is the only option and in that country it can't be used
etc etc and etc.

yada yada yada...

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issues with C&B
Care to be more specific, i have none at all. Works as advertised. No additional cost, no problems at all for 12 months now.

fraudulent billing from C&B
If you do your research, all these so called fraudulent charges are scams from third parties. If you are so stupid to fall for a scam, you deserve whats comming. C&B has 2.1 million reported scams, paypal has 71 million. Now before you go ballistic, you can't really compare these numbers, but it shows that EVERY payment provider is target of these scams.

they have a F rating with the BBB
BBB, LMAO! Do you even know how BBB works? Click and Buy is not a BBB Accreditation business. They have no rating at all, but the BBB making money of businesses "joining" them chooses to list F instead of no rating. This is fraudulent by itself and misrepresentation of facts.

The rating for C&B is explained as follows:
7 complaints closed with BBB in last 3 years | 1 closed in last 12 months.

Oh Mah Gawd! 7 complaints in 3 years.

Compare this to paypal:
6540 complaints closed with BBB in last 3 years | 1873 closed in last 12 months.

Right. and Paypal gets an A+.

EU banks telling their customers not to use C&B due to fraud issues with them
If my Bank tells me what to do with my money i change to a different one. Seriously, this is a non issue and you should take that up with your bank. It has nothing to do with C&B.

I can use my CC worldwide, i never get refused anywhere. I have no idea what kinda Banks you people have but they must really be the worst Banks ever.

In some countries C&B is the only option and in that country it can't be used
I don't know what that means, you saying SE offers only C&B in that country and C&B does not allow people from that country to subscribe? I doubt that, honestly.

Cheers!

Dude, chill. Your attitude is giving your cause a bad name. I'll throw up some calm counter-arguments.

- 1 person not having an issue does not counteract someone else having an issue. There is at least one person on this foum already who has not had their concerns raised with C&B resolved. Doesn't mean other people will have those problems either - the argument goes both ways.

- Scams and fraud claims are also relevant to company size. Consider the size of paypal as an enterprize - they are HUGE compared to CnB. It follows that scam-creators will also target Paypal due to higher exposure and fraud claims will crop up more often in the same way. But then even when you scale this, I still think 2.1 million reports is 2.1 million too many.

- the F rating with the BBB is to me less of a reflection on their performance and more a reflection of where they are set up to do business. Having almost no traffic through the BBB indicates that they have barely ever dealt with US consumers. THIS is a problem for people in the US using ClickandBuy, as the US consumer behaves rather differently to the UK consumer and it demonstrates that ClickandBuy are not necessarily prepared for this.

- My bank doesn't tell me what to do with my money, but they are infinitely more experienced in financial security than I am. So if ClickandBuy manages to trip all of their anti-fraud and anti-theft security systems without fail each and every transaction, I'm going to take the advice of the known person safeguarding my funds over the barely-known person trying to take my money from me.

- There are regions that you can select in the SE account management system and where the game is available for purchase. ClickandBuy is listed as the only available payment option for these countries by SE. But then when setting up ClickandBuy, it reports that some of those countries are not supported after all.
To be frank, this is a communication problem on SE's part and proof that the game is not as widely available as they claim it is. Something can (and will) be done about this, but not by ClickandBuy.


To wrap up, ClickandBuy is here to stay. Contracts and stuff. But this should not prevent additional payment methods being implemented to account for those people who do not, will not or cannot use ClickandBuy.

And the clock is ticking - mid fall is the advertised time for a new recurring Credit Card payment option to be implemented, which is just around the corner. Most of the community is in sit-tight mode.

If you don't believe me read the thread and what people are saying. The explain the issues, I was simply wrapping it up in one post since you obviously didn't read this thread. This isn't coming from me but many people who have made many posts. If you don't care and don't have issues, why are you here other than to put people down that do have issues? If everything was perfect then why would they be changing and adding more payments, and why would there be so many complaints across the board from people in many countries in both games?

Anyway there is no reason for me to continue to answer you since everything on your end is just perfect, this is a thread for people that do (or did) have issues. Seeing that obviously, as a stated, there are in fact issues since SE is changing their payment plans, this thread really doesn't have any relevance anymore.

Have a lovely day. :)

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Envoyé par Catapult

Dude, chill. Your attitude is giving your cause a bad name. I'll throw up some calm counter-arguments.

- 1 person not having an issue does not counteract someone else having an issue. There is at least one person on this foum already who has not had their concerns raised with C&B resolved. Doesn't mean other people will have those problems either - the argument goes both ways.

- Scams and fraud claims are also relevant to company size. Consider the size of paypal as an enterprize - they are HUGE compared to CnB. It follows that scam-creators will also target Paypal due to higher exposure and fraud claims will crop up more often in the same way. But then even when you scale this, I still think 2.1 million reports is 2.1 million too many.

- the F rating with the BBB is to me less of a reflection on their performance and more a reflection of where they are set up to do business. Having almost no traffic through the BBB indicates that they have barely ever dealt with US consumers. THIS is a problem for people in the US using ClickandBuy, as the US consumer behaves rather differently to the UK consumer and it demonstrates that ClickandBuy are not necessarily prepared for this.

- My bank doesn't tell me what to do with my money, but they are infinitely more experienced in financial security than I am. So if ClickandBuy manages to trip all of their anti-fraud and anti-theft security systems without fail each and every transaction, I'm going to take the advice of the known person safeguarding my funds over the barely-known person trying to take my money from me.

- There are regions that you can select in the SE account management system and where the game is available for purchase. ClickandBuy is listed as the only available payment option for these countries by SE. But then when setting up ClickandBuy, it reports that some of those countries are not supported after all.
To be frank, this is a communication problem on SE's part and proof that the game is not as widely available as they claim it is. Something can (and will) be done about this, but not by ClickandBuy.


To wrap up, ClickandBuy is here to stay. Contracts and stuff. But this should not prevent additional payment methods being implemented to account for those people who do not, will not or cannot use ClickandBuy.

And the clock is ticking - mid fall is the advertised time for a new recurring Credit Card payment option to be implemented, which is just around the corner. Most of the community is in sit-tight mode.

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+1

Thank you... I didn't feel like explaining it all over again since I've been on this thread since the start of it. Your post and explanation was very to the point and logical. I understand that some have no issues, but there are people that do, and the red flags that have been raised point to an obviously flaw within the system.

Usually I try to be nice, but I didn't sleep well last night so my temperament is a bit short today. XD

But like I said, SE is adding in more payment options and I am very pleased with this. :)

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Envoyé par Reinheart

lol u made that one?

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Yup, that was me doing =D
Directing a Swiss Webcomic Blog is great!

I used C&B and they do fraude.. Telling you they will charge you money cause you use their space..
I now use Paypal and am completely happy with it.
Do i use it like an amateur? No. I run gameservers and websites so i use paypal almost daily..
Paypal is safe and they offer a very nice service.

I would say get rid of C&b and get something descent like PP.

bump for more info on the extra payment option!

I'm glad someone else pulled this to the front, given today's news.

Urgent need of extra payment options other than CnB, especially before end of Nov.

yes please i want to pay to play the game, but i want Pay Pal, please put Pay pal as payment option! thank you!

No new announcements on the XI side from what I can see, but given the predicted timing of 1.20 without laying a definitive date, I suspect 1.20 will be concurrent with pay2play and the new billing method. The timing of it all is otherwise far too much of a coincidence.

*fingers crossed*

I just CAN'T believe they want to go P2P without changing the billing options first, even though pretty much EVERY player who ever visited the forums complained about them-______-"
SE'll lose lots of suscribers just for the fact that they CAN'T pay, rather than not being willing to pay.

by the gods people....really? we where given new payment info a bit back, why in the hell is this being brought back again?.......

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Envoyé par Kailea_Nagisa

by the gods people....really? we where given new payment info a bit back, why in the hell is this being brought back again?.......

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because most of us only have click & buy, and for me they seems not to accept my card, until now i have no way to use my own card *still using a friends card* :<

Bumping for the sake of anyone needing this info and can't find it? Just trying to be helpful.

Square doesn't want my money I guess. At least give us some updated info not the months old FFXI site info that still hasn't been put into practice as I can't even turn my FFXI account on since merging to the new Square system.

Holy crap this thread's old, ha ha ha. Anyway, I suppose PayPal's the only form of online payment I can trust. It's never really let me down whether it was through eBay or otherwise.

the only company that refuse to take its customer money...lol

This is sorta good news... from the German community rep!

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Envoyé par Sasunaich

Wir planen, detaillierte Informationen zum Billing-System zu veröffentlichen, die alle eure Fragen beantworten sollten (auch das Gehilfen-Thema). Habt noch etwas Geduld bis dahin :)
We're planning to make detailed information about the billing-system public that should answer all of your questions (including the retainer topic). Till then, please have a little more patience. :)

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and...

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Envoyé par Sasunaich

Was das Antesten des neuen Patches (1.20) angeht, so hat jeder Spieler Zeit, dies kostenlos zu tun, wie Yoshida hier ankündigt.
With regards to testing patch 1.20, every player will have time to do this free of charge as Yoshida has announced <here>.

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Envoyé par Naoki_Yoshida

Wir wollten es den Spielern ermöglichen, Patch 1.19 und 1.20 noch in der kostenlosen Spielzeit zu erleben.
We want to make it possible for players to still experience patches 1.19 and 1.20 in the free-to-play period.

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Which means info will be coming and we shouldn't lose our heads just yet, nor are we getting billed before 1.20 is well-implemented.

So fingers are staying crossed.

the getting billed after 1.20 is already quite an old news, jsut that ppl flip and never really "read" and "understood" it :) thanks for the info.

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Envoyé par Seirra_Lanzce

the getting billed after 1.20 is already quite an old news

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Only if you have sufficient logic to put 1 and 1 together... :p

I wonder how many players are forced to quit due to the terrible payment system after Jan 6th!? Lol I'm surprised they haven't come up with better options like direct payment before officially announce charging us. SE really have the guts doing so. :cool:

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Envoyé par Niyariko

I wonder how many players are forced to quit due to the terrible payment system after Jan 6th!? Lol I'm surprised they haven't come up with better options like direct payment before officially announce charging us. SE really have the guts doing so. :cool:

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You said it. Although the German rep has said they're still coming, this was not a very good PR move... and heightens scepticism that those alternative billing methods are indeed on the horizon.

Hi guys, OP back!

So... we were supposed to get more options, presumably in Oct-Nov...........

So it's almost Jan, and the game is going pay to play..........................

Not that I'm going to pay until 2.0 anyway, but for those of you that are, I'm concerned that you're stuck with this convoluted payment system (if you're even in a region that can pay at all!).

Where was it stated that it wouldn't be active by time they start payment?

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Envoyé par Jennestia

Where was it stated that it wouldn't be active by time they start payment?

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Where was it definitively stated that it would...?

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Envoyé par Chocobits

Where was it definitively stated that it would...?

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People seem to be under the assumption it wouldn't be active by time payment for XIV goes live, despite it never being stated as such.

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Envoyé par Jennestia

People seem to be under the assumption it wouldn't be active by time payment for XIV goes live, despite it never being stated as such.

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Considering the game and company we're talking about, I think skepticism is expected.

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Envoyé par Blarp

Considering the game and company we're talking about, I think skepticism is expected.

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As much as I'd prefer not to, I'd have to agree after the way the topic had to be pulled through the mud by the XI community.

I'm concerned people will be forced to voice their opinions with their wallets and allow their accounts to be suspended when billing starts without being renewed until the new billing method exists, if that is the only way to show the team how serious the matter is.

I remember when the implemented the verified by visa payment method in FFXI, they announced it and the very next day after announcing the new payment plan, they implemented it. Sadly at the time I was waiting for my new credit card to arrive in the mail. It was the worst timing ever cause I was forced out of the game that I have been playing for like 6 years. Couldn't pay play their game cause my Bank did not support this new payment method.

SE told me to ask my mom and dad for their cc but I have a job and in my late 20s, I will not ask my mom and dad to borrow their cc to play video games. The next thing SE told me to do was to get a new bank. Really get a new back to play a $13 a month game. So anyways this horrible payment plan only effects US PC users, I eventually got a hold of a ps2 and was set.

Why cant SE just be like every other mmo company or better yet look what Blizzard does with World of Warcraft, never have I ever had a problem with their extremely easy to use payment system.

I just went and set up the automatic payments using ClickandBuy.

It seems nothing has improved.

The whole process was beyond convoluted because of the number of fricken menus you had to click through. I was clicking all over the place looking for the "start my subscription again!" button, but the default login screen didn't make it obvious where that is. You'd kind of figure, that if Square wants your money for XIV, they'd make it damn easy to just one-click and enter your credit card info and get things going.

Nope - you get redirected to ClickandBuy where you have to register another account with them, just so you can set the thing up. After you register your payment method, it's not enough. You have to dig into the Services menu and go through 4 pages to tell Square that you want to reactivate your FFXIV automatic payments again.

I get the feeling whoever designed this convoluted payment system was at least partially responsible for the convoluted ingame FFXIV UI. There's just so many clicks to get the job done whereas in most other MMOs, the sub payment page has everything you need to get things started at the front page. This brings back REALLY bad memories of when FFXIV launched and having to register service accounts and putting in a gazillion codes and activating characters and whatnot just to get things started.

It doesn't look like this page changed in any other way, despite the numerous calls from users to make the payments easier to do and to allow us to directly charge to our account rather than using a third party. Also, what happened to the PayPal option?

Seriously - if this is the same thing that's going to be in XIV a year from now, you're going to have some players who start off with a bad first impression because of the horrible billing system design.

The billing system needs to:
* Have all of your billing info available on the main page.
* Have the ability to enable/disable services from the front page, or at worst, be an extra click away to a subpage where you do it.
* Allow us to use our credit cards to pay for our subscription directly with Square.
* Abolish the Crysta system. It's unneeded. Just use regular money native to the account holder's currency.
* Have a clearly obvious "Renew/Cancel subscription" button on the main page.
* Other functions should take no more than 2 clicks to get to, such as change of address, password, etc.

I got everything set up now, but I dread having to walk a friend who wants to try this game out through this crap again.

I read an official response somewhere ( cant remember where, but it wasnt too long ago ) that said they are looking into direct cc payments, and will update sometime soon

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Envoyé par Baxter

I read an official response somewhere ( cant remember where, but it wasnt too long ago ) that said they are looking into direct cc payments, and will update sometime soon

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Yes, by late fall in fact.

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Envoyé par Catapult

Yes, by late fall in fact.

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Late fall of this year or next year? :/

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Envoyé par Bahn

Late fall of this year or next year? :/

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I'll let you draw your own conclusions. >_>

We all get to be cynics occasionally.

i have already crysta in my account and i cant pay with crysta. PERFECT S-E

I had crysta as well from the original registration, when I was prompted to reactivate my character this morning it didn't take me through all the steps as seen in the guide, yet still activated my character. I'm hoping that it is smart enough to deduct the crysta already present once needed.

However, once that crysta runs out I don't think I'll reissue any more. I may return to playing once a true CC based subscription service is available.