So its 0-2 in the male female glamour department, yay?

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Originally Posted by Terrini

Frankly, I figured the more masculine equivalents already exist in game as Best Man's Slacks and Lord's Knickers - to make it part of the "set" it would involve adding a little bunny tail. But there has been people ASKING for the fishnets available to guys and this is "making the gear unisex" the same way that the Patrician's set is, and A thong with fishnets seems still acceptable to me while remaining the same item.

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Yeah, I agree with that. I personally wouldn't mind the fishnet option for male characters, namely when you consider the already limited usage of it even with female ones lol. We don't actually have thongs in this game, do we? I'd have figured that would be a bit overboard here.

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Originally Posted by Welsper59

That's where I raise the question to them, of what exactly could be done to equal things out in that way, that isn't already in the game?

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Easy, make gear sets that only males can equip and stick to that intention during the designing process the same time they're designing female-only sets.

It's a small miracle that Snow's outfit isn't unisex.

There's little they can do to even things out as it is without completely omitting female glamour in the future (and watch the shoe land on the other foot here on the forums... hard) or break down and design male equivalents to all current female-locked gear (unlikely, too much server stress, PS3 limitations and "we have no intentions of implementing this" reasons), but they sure as heck can keep the gap from widening from this point on if they cared.

Something just broke in my mind and I wrote a meandering FAQ about this issue because it's driving me so crazy responding to the same points in every thread even though the vast majority of people generally support the idea of more unisex items for everyone.

http://favoritismfantasyxiv.tumblr.c...s-of-equipment

I'm happy for them to modify the existing female-only items, or to give us extra ones. Anything goes; I'm good at combining glamour items to suit my taste. I'm also happy for them to give the ladies more of the current male-only items (my friend wants the recent Moonfire Faire shorts). So long as it's done fairly.

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Originally Posted by Ladon

What exactly are you expecting here? What if the 'official response' is simply that the design team likes to design female gear over male gear? Are you just going to whine about it being 2015 and some nonsense about equality in a virtual world?

Your subscription affords you the same content as everyone else. There are no restrictions placed on you about what gender you play in the game other than YOUR choices. People around here really need to stop acting like it is the developers that are making these choices for you.

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Considering the "official response" regarding genders back when ARR came out was along the lines of, "We gave both genders the same initial stats, to make sure players can choose the gender they want to play as, and not the one with the greatest benefits," that's... pretty contradictory to the apparent stance of, "Yeah, you can play either gender, but this gender gets a serious advantage in the Fashion End Game."
(And no, stats and glamour isn't the same thing, but it's still a matter of balance between the genders, something they were in favour of before, but then seemingly forgot about when it came to clothes...)

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Originally Posted by SchalaZeal

Yeah, the ratio in most combat-oriented MMOs like Final Fantasy, Everquest, World of Warcraft, is somewhere between 75/25 or 82/18 male/female. Male players just seem to have less of an issue playing female characters than the reverse, for some reason. It's almost as if the "this world favors men all the time" feminist trope is actually not true for pretty much most of relevant life. It could be true for the 1% of wall street people who try to make the poor poorer, but I'm not with them to know if they treat their males like kings and their females like paupers.

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Um... From when are those numbers? Would you mind linking studies pointing to those ratios?
According to one study in 2014, the MMO gender ratio in the US was at approximately 60/40 (m/f) (link)
The same numbers came out in 2009 (blog entry discussing and linking a BBC article regarding it)
And according to the Everquest team (in that 2009 article)... female players had a higher tendency to be more dedicated players, "spending more time each day playing the game than their male counterparts".

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Originally Posted by BreathlessTao

Wouldn't hold my breath tbh.

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I see what you did there :3

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Originally Posted by Blood-Aki

You'll just have to get over the fact that it will always be that way, it's not generally accepted

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....said men when women wanted to wear pants/trousers in public. And vote.

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Originally Posted by Blood-Aki

And people like you KEEP reading only what you want to read, i was responding to another poster who mentioned it, and no 'cross dressing" isn't in this game, unless you can show me a male character wearing a bikini intended for a female or a bustier. or any other outfit that is CLEARY female only and can be worn on males. you do understand the difference, right? if you're refering to the long skirts and kilts like dungeon gear, those actually look decent on male characters or not as "feminine" as they would being called skirts etc.

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So, wait... skirts aren't considered female clothes anymore? Awesome, that means no one will even look weirdly at me when I go out in a skir....oh wait. They would. And I live in a very open-minded town. Take the average town/city and there'd probably be either verbal or physical abuse.
You can't define "cross-dressing" by saying "this normally female garment doesn't count as crossdressing, because it looks ok on a guy". You can't define "cross-dressing" as "it has to be a female-only piece", because that's akin to telling an average-sized guy IRL that it's not cross-dressing unless he puts on something from that rack labelled "size 0" -- it's not possible, and not because of social norms.

It just doesn't work that way.

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Originally Posted by Cidel

Easy, make gear sets that only males can equip and stick to that intention during the designing process the same time they're designing female-only sets.

It's a small miracle that Snow's outfit isn't unisex.

There's little they can do to even things out as it is without completely omitting female glamour in the future (and watch the shoe land on the other foot here on the forums... hard) or break down and design male equivalents to all current female-locked gear (unlikely, too much server stress, PS3 limitations and "we have no intentions of implementing this" reasons), but they sure as heck can keep the gap from widening from this point on if they cared.

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That doesn't answer the question at all though. I was obviously pointing out the crowd that is aiming for something masculine to be male exclusive. I stated so right before the part you quoted. A traditional masculine version of the bunny suit? Not exactly plausible. A testosterone driven Thavnairian Bustier set? Yeah, that'll go over well with them. In order to fit the "masculine" appeal, massive changes need to be made to sets like that. If you change those things a lot, they lose their identity. They might as well be separate items, just as the Thavnairian glamour equips have two different sets (the female-only and the unisex), which then raises the question of how well this drastically altered item also looks on a female character... back to square one of that crowd complaining that there's more female than male outfits.

As you said, at least the gap wouldn't widen, but again, my question was in reference to the crowd that seeks non-skirt, non-dress, non-feminine attire to be male-only. You know the type, muscles and heavy armors sort of crowd. They want those things, but they're conjoining it with the other arguments, such as people that want to wear the female-only gear, and clinging to the numbers game to support it.

Know what's really unfortunate? The people I refer to, I've encountered one directly in-game, asking for heavy male-only armors and comparing to how there are so many more female-only glamour gear. When you know... those heavier, masculine armors, tend to be the default look on combat gear. That's the type I refer to when I say they cling to the numbers game. If what they want isn't available, the argument shouldn't be about the gender specific gear, but rather the gear design itself.

This is why I always point out flaws or misconceptions in posts. People may not like that, even if I support the argument, but people really shouldn't try to fall into the ignorant category, even if a hundred people agree with them. It just re-enforces the idea that people don't know what they want or what they're saying, and thus their words shouldn't really be taken very seriously. This is why people should specifically state that they want access to (altered) female-only gear as male characters or, in the more ignorant cases, access to masculine male gear. I call that one ignorant due to how it's very rare for someone to say something more than "just make it manly" sort of a response, or one like the in-game complaint I mentioned. Thus, is why I raise the question of what exactly could be done to do this.

Just to be clear, I get that some people in this thread stated specifically what they're arguing for. The OP though? Nope, and that's exactly what started this tired debate.

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Um... From when are those numbers? Would you mind linking studies pointing to those ratios?

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From there:
http://www.nickyee.com/daedalus/gateway_genderbend.html

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And according to the Everquest team (in that 2009 article)... female players had a higher tendency to be more dedicated players, "spending more time each day playing the game than their male counterparts".

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I think the Daedalus guy said the same about his own study, though it was a small difference on a huge amount of people. If people play 19 hours a week for male and 24 hours a week for female, what does my 60 hours a week tell you?

For the benefit of Blood-Aki, and anyone else wanting to argue that crossdressing isn't or shouldn't be possible in FFXIV, as I promised.
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c7...psqecjjhtu.png
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c7...psz2whiglz.png
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c7...psvsont2ts.png
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c7...psqge2zau5.png
http://i25.photobucket.com/albums/c7...pssg1udfxd.png

Just a few outfits I've had over time. In particular the Swansgrace coat (3rd and 4th pictures) had even my own FC mates thinking I'd Fantasiaed into a female character, because that coat is basically a ballgown.

I'd honestly just like more coats and whatnot for casters than the women's-body-in-mind clothing casters get currently.

Hildibrand crossdressed if I remember. I didn't know snow's outfit is male exclusive because I wasn't around when the event was held. But honestly, I can see a woman wearing snow outfit, the design is proper and accepted for a woman to wear. And it's all come back to acceptance again. I do agree about making male version about bunny outfits when a male wears them, just like what they did to nin's af1 armor and few others. I wonder if this "server memory" again which prevents to do so.

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But honestly, I can see a woman wearing snow outfit, the design is proper and accepted for a woman to wear.

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The Lightning outfit could be worn by a guy then. It's proper and accepted for a man to wear. And before someone goes "but but a skirt", I give you the Roman empire. The guys who invented or made popular the skirts on armor. Maybe they stole it from the Greeks.