Tank Balance

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Originally Posted by Rbstr

I dono why Divine Veil gets so much crap.

It's an extra, stacking, shield for raid-wide damage. It will automatically deploy on a Succor. Or, if the Scholar is Deploying an Adlo, they can cast it on you.
Plenty of fights past have had big raid-wides that required Stone Skin+Succor and even Sacred Soil on top of it in order to keep squishy DPS alive. Veil is fantastic for that.

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It's a fantastic ability. It's also one of the only skills in the game that require an outside trigger, which makes people feel uncomfortable. It's taking control out of the hands of the person playing tank.

We play tank... because we like that control.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Avoiding a mechanic is also putting less strain on healers. Nowadays, the "less strain" is far too little to justify picking a PLD when compared to the DPS loss, since DPS is the most important aspect of endgame content.
WAR's mitigation is very close to PLD (Especially in magical fights), while their DPS as MT is much higher.

So, if you have WAR+PLD, you either chose to put the WAR as MT because he can do more DPS and you know you can manage all mechanics properly, or you put the PLD if you want to bypass some mechanics. And bypassing some mechanics would allow the PLD to DPS more too (Tempered Will already helps with that for knockbacks, in fact)

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WAR MT deals less DPS than WAR OT, you won't put him MT. So it would be more PLD vs DRK, and WAR's mitigation is nowhere close PLD's.

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Originally Posted by Anyndel

WAR MT deals less DPS than WAR OT, you won't put him MT. So it would be more PLD vs DRK, and WAR's mitigation is nowhere close PLD's.

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WAR MT deals more DPS that any MT
WAR OT deals more DPS that any OT
The calculation is what combination of any tanks makes you lose the less DPS.

WAR is the tank with the least gap between MT DPS and OT DPS, thanks to Unchained, skills that ignore damage penalties and its ability to stance dance on the fly to pop some Fell Cleaves.
PLD is the tank with the most gap between MT DPS and OT DPS, since RoH is its weaker combo and Sword Oath adding a lot of damage.
So PLD MT+WAR OT deal less damage than WAR MT+PLD OT

And yes, WAR's mitigation is really close to PLD when mitigation really matters (i.e mitigating tankbusters). In heavy magical fights, WAR is actually better than PLD since Sheltron and Bulwark are useless.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

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By that logic WAR MT and DRK OT or vice versa, why even bother with PLD? Also, yeah, pop some fell cleaves as WAR MT and make healers heal you for 20% of your HP just because you swapped and sacrifice your inner beast which is a 20% damage mitigation plus a decent healing. WAR mitigation is nowhere near close to PLD if you're gonna DPS when MTing and still isn't as good when fully MTing tankbusters. This is illogical, so PLD is just crap and can't tank or DPS for you? Might as well go WAR MT and WAR OT by that logic.

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Originally Posted by Anyndel

By that logic WAR MT and DRK OT or vice versa, why even bother with PLD? Also, yeah, pop some fell cleaves as WAR MT and make healers heal you for 20% of your HP just because you swapped and sacrifice your inner beast which is a 20% damage mitigation plus a decent healing. WAR mitigation is nowhere near close to PLD if you're gonna DPS when MTing and still isn't as good when fully MTing tankbusters. This is illogical, so PLD is just crap and can't tank or DPS for you? Might as well go WAR MT and WAR OT by that logic.

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Which is more than do-able in a non buster stage of a fight if your smart about the use of infuriate.

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Originally Posted by Anyndel

Also, yeah, pop some fell cleaves as WAR MT and make healers heal you for 20% of your HP just because you swapped and sacrifice your inner beast which is a 20% damage mitigation plus a decent healing. WAR mitigation is nowhere near close to PLD if you're gonna DPS when MTing and still isn't as good when fully MTing tankbusters.

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I'll suggest you go check some advanced warrior guides, you might learn one thing or two.

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Originally Posted by Anyndel

By that logic WAR MT and DRK OT or vice versa, why even bother with PLD? [...] This is illogical, so PLD is just crap and can't tank or DPS for you? Might as well go WAR MT and WAR OT by that logic.

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You're late to the party...why do you think there is so much threads about PLD being weaker thant the other tanks ?

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Originally Posted by Anyndel

"Please buff my tank class DPS so it's competitive" you should be saying "please adjust DPS checks".

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You have to understand, this content was not tuned to be feasibly cleared in i190 (except probably A1S) by the majority. I'm not saying PLD's DPS needs to be buffed. I run PLD in Alex, we clear DPS checks just fine. However, you asked why players were so "obsessed" with minmaxing right now - I answered you.

PLD should not be a damage tank; it's not their image, never has been. They get extra raid utility the others do not. But... We still have 20% damage loss in Shield Oath that cannot be altered with skills like the other two. Early groups tended to have DRK instead of a PLD because they could compensate with exceptional play and still get the extra DPS. Then, you have the rest of the world watching going "PLD must be the weakest tank". Some early groups cleared with a PLD with large Sword Oath uptime utilizing Shadewalker for enmity. Right now I think people are saying, a WAR can DPS better and mitigate just as well, so there is no reason for so large a penalty on damage.

Tanks should get like a massive nerf to their DPS and a massive boost to their enmity gains.

This would get rid of 90% of the false tanks who only tank so they can DPS. Only the true metalheads will remain when the scrubs who bandwagoned tank realize they have to actually tank.

Making fending an almost necessity to be equipped. The fact that tanks can get away with wearing slaying accessories shows poor game design that's obviously heavily favoring a more casual player. If you disagree, then you know nothing about game design. That's a simple 100% fact.

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Originally Posted by CarnivalNights

If you disagree, then you know nothing about game design. That's a simple 100% fact.

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I'm curious to know what your game design credentials are since you make such a blanket statement.

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Originally Posted by Anyndel

By that logic WAR MT and DRK OT or vice versa, why even bother with PLD? Also, yeah, pop some fell cleaves as WAR MT and make healers heal you for 20% of your HP just because you swapped and sacrifice your inner beast which is a 20% damage mitigation plus a decent healing.

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You silly tho

If you actually played WAR, you'd know the fell cleave KABOOM done properly is executed under the effect of BloodBath+Berserk+Internal Release+Vengeance with maim and storm eye up. B2B Fell Cleaves heal 50% of the damage done with a 30% damage reduction up.

Your ignorance makes me disregard anything you hope to accomplish here.