Some ideas that I would've tried with Bard/Mechanist:
Wanderer's minuet, basically increases them to on-level of Caster DPS. In exchange, it constantly saps the bard's MP until it's 0. At 0 MP, the song is maintained,
but there is no way to restore MP from this point.
or perhaps...
Wanderer's Minuet, make it oGCD - making it possible to weave in and out of the stance easily between GCD's. This would, in my opinion, greatly enhance the effect of the skill and make it a lot more fluid for bards to use and stance dance between Caster and Mobility. No CD, no cast time, oGCD buff that changes you to a caster's stance means that you could enhance yourself without the current GCD penalty you suffer.
Ways to fix BRD and MCH in a realistic way
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07-07-2015, 12:34 PMEidolon
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07-07-2015, 01:23 PMDuelleI don't mind them changing certain classes and giving QoL changes to others. My beef with what they've done to BRD is just lack of cohesiveness with the way BRD has played. To indulge a fancy I had, here's something I came up with:Quote:
Originally Posted by QiLymePye
Abilities
lv52 Invocation - Calls forth the effect of a song. 30 second cooldown.
--If used while Army Paeon is active => Cancels song effect of Paeon and turns it into a buff with a 24 second duration. Places Army Paeon on a 2 minute cooldown.
--If used while Mage Ballad is active => Cancels song effect of Ballad and turns it into a buff with a 24 second duration. Places Mage Ballad on a 2 minute cooldown.
--If used while Foe Requiem is active => Cancels song effect of Requiem and causes your next shot to apply the Requiem debuff on target enemy for 24 second. Places Foe Requiem on a 2 minute cooldown.
--If used while Wanderer's Minuet is active => Calls forth a special effect depending on which verse of the minuet is active.
lv54 Wanderer's Minuet - Chant the Wanderer's Minuet. Progresses as weapon skills are used. (Note: WM starts with access to verses I and II). Cannot be used while other songs with other songs.
lv56 Wanderer's Minuet III & IV - Grants access to verses III and IV of the wanderer's minuet.
lv58 Sidewinder - Delivers an attack with a potency of 150. Additional effect: If the target is suffering from a Venomous Bite or Windbite effect inflicted by you, Sidewinder's potency is increased to 250 for one effect, or 350 for both.
lv60 Wanderer's Minuet V - Grants access to verse V of the wanderer's minuet.
Wanderer's Minuet I + Invocation - Increases damage of the next weapon skill, but triples it's TP cost. (The buff would be called Careful Aim)
Wanderer's Minuet II + Invocation - Reduces target enemy's resistance to piercing attacks for 20 seconds.
Wanderer's Minuet III + Invocation - Refreshes the duration of Windbite and Venomous Bite on target.
Wanderer's Minuet IV + Invocation - Increases target ally's parry rate for 20 seconds.
Wanderer's Minuet V + Invocation - Your next single-target shot places a DoT effect that deals damage equal to the damage of the shot over 30 seconds (ex: You hit WM V+Invocation, then use Heavy Shot on the mob, dealing 300 damage. The mob gets a DoT on it that deals 300 damage over 30 seconds)
Mechanics
So, the deal with this version of WM is that it's a progressive buff of sorts. Unlike Wrath, however, you don't stack it to max then consume it. Instead, you pick what verse you want to trigger with Invocation and get a specific effect. For example, if you're looking to refresh your DoTs, you know you have to pop WM (starting you at verse I), perform two weapon skills to progress you to verse III, then hit Invocation. If you want to just get the Careful Aim buff, then you pop WM and hit Invocation.
To make things clear, when you first get WM at lv54, you can only progress into the second verse (so you pop it, hit a weapon skill to progress to verse II, and will go back to verse I if you use a weapon skill after that). At lv56 you'd get access to verses III and IV of the minuet instead of an ability with its own icon, and to access verse III and IV you'd need to pop WM then use the number of weapon skills needed to progress into those verses. At lv60 you wouldn't get a new skill with its own icon, but instead the ability for WM to progress into verse V.
On the "cancels song effect" stuff, by this I mean that in the case of the first three songs (requiem, ballad, paeon), you'd still activate those songs if you want the continuous effect that drains your MP. Invocation gives you the option of turning those into temporary buffs for situations where you may not be needed to perpetually keep those buffs up. I'm not sure if 24 seconds is long enough, but the idea is that by using Invocation you'd apply a shorter duration buff/debuff while allowing longer uptime doing full DPS; you'd still get more bang for your buck from paeon/ballad/requiem if you let them consume your entire MP pool.
Progression and Applications
Basic Buff Progression: This is a nooby rotation and how WM would interact with it.
Click on Wanderer's Minuet (you gain Wanderer's Minuet I) => Click Heavy Shot (you gain Wanderer's Minuet II) => Click Straight Shot (you gain Wanderer's Minuet III) => Click Venomous Bite (you gain Wanderer's Minuet IV) => Click Windbite (you gain Wanderer's Minuet V) => Click on Bloodletter (you gain Wanderer's Minuet I)
Application 1: You want to show off your DPS
Click on Wanderer's Minuet (you gain Wanderer's Minuet I) => Click Invocation (Invocation consumes Wanderer's Minuet I and grants you the Careful Aim buff)
Application 2: You want to give the DRK in your party +parry to help him get procs.
Click on Wanderer's Minuet (you gain Wanderer's Minuet I) => Click Heavy Shot (you gain Wanderer's Minuet II) => Click Straight Shot (you gain Wanderer's Minuet III) => Click Venomous Bite (you gain Wanderer's Minuet IV) => Click Invocation while targeting the DRK tank (Invocation consumes Wanderer's Minuet IV and your tank gains the +parry buff)
Application 3: You want to renew DoT durations without reusing them
Click on Wanderer's Minuet (you gain Wanderer's Minuet I) => Click Heavy Shot (you gain Wanderer's Minuet II) => Click Straight Shot (you gain Wanderer's Minuet III) => Click Invocation while targeting the mob affected by your DoTs (Invocation consumes Wanderer's Minuet III and refreshes the duration of your DoTs on the mob)
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Mind you that this is something I just made up, so I haven't taken the time to balance it. I simply want to prove a point by showing you can build on BRD's 2.0 gameplay without changing everything about it. -
07-07-2015, 01:24 PMLillia
@ Duelle; the concept seems cool to me but... I don't really think I'd play bard anymore if it was like that... :x
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07-07-2015, 01:33 PMQiLymePye
I like the verse thing and not making it stack and use all at once. It makes us play the job different from other BRDS and allows even more utility in group settings. I also want something that, if it doesn't increase potency, at least increase crit rate and dmg. Like someone else said, accuracy is key in real life archery. So with accuracy comes well placed, critical hits. I wouldn't mind that if I activate WM, my potency might not improve but my chances of crit hit and dmg would. Kinda turn me into a sniper...I can dig that
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07-07-2015, 01:33 PMDuelleThe intent was more to have something you can plan to weave into your rotation while keeping the instant-cast-mobile nature of BRD intact. I'm sure there are kinks that need to be dealt with to make it worthy of implementation, but it's just an idea I put together on the spot. I will admit inspiration came from how Cyan's sword skills were implemented in FFVI.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lillia
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07-07-2015, 01:45 PMLilliaThat's actually not why I wouldn't.... It's just really reliant on songs that way and as much as I love being utility, I also don't feel great about us being tied to singing songs more than we are right now as it would force more down time unless invocation isn't a song..? then wanderer's I may also use a lot of TP depending on the skill used when under that effect right..? Idk... it needs a little work as you said..Quote:
Originally Posted by Duelle
besides we were nerfed for being too useful with rain of death and hawk eye before, wouldn't that concept just defeat that logic? Idk... it just seems like we'd be given too much and be really tied to repeatedly using a song under quite a few situations....
Edit: I reached my daily limit, so I'm going to just edit here.
But then if we're in I for too long due to Invoc being down then how will we maintain our tp until II? I'm not trying to poke holes into your concept, I think it's a good one... I'm just a little wary on it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Duelle
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07-07-2015, 01:54 PMDuelleWell, yeah. That's sort of the point. I figure a BRD could save it for Sidewinder with both DoTs up (or at least be faced with the choice of trippling TP cost for bigger burst or waiting until hitting verse V for the additional DoT). Also keep in mind Invocation has a 30 second cooldown, so it's not something you can really spam.Quote:
Originally Posted by Lillia
Old Rain of Death lowered enemy attack, though. Verse II would put BRD in line with what DRG does (DRG would still be able to refresh the duration while BRD would not since the duration is shorter than the cooldown on Invoke). Verse IV could be changed into something else, but I had just read a thread about how DRKs don't have enough +Parry when I came up with the effects for it.Quote:
besides we were nerfed for being too useful with rain of death and hawk eye before, wouldn't that concept just defeat that logic? Idk... it just seems like we'd be given too much and be really tied to repeatedly using a song under quite a few situations....
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07-07-2015, 05:12 PMUBERHAXED
http://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodest...c79b08edff54a8
There you go, cleric stance for dummies. Happy? -
07-07-2015, 08:28 PMDuelleDoesn't deal with the underlying issues of that design decision, but oh well.Quote:
Originally Posted by UBERHAXED
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07-07-2015, 09:05 PMStouterTaruWhich is that BRD can burst damage every minute at a cost of not running around the group like a 3 year old with ADHD?Quote:
Originally Posted by Duelle