Tales from Duty Finder: Some make you laugh, some make you cry. Let's vent.

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Originally Posted by Erdgeist

And afterwards, the 60 nin says, "healer needs a bit of work", and then leaves.

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Wow, what a dick.

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Originally Posted by Ametrine

Wow, what a dick.

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Those usually say that cu, they can't put effort and need someone to make up for their lack of mechanics and dps

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Originally Posted by Fluestergras

Did you know the boss in A12 eventually casts a second Judgment Protocol if the DPS sucks? Well, thanks to this dragoon who did like 600 DPS, I do know now :)

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I didn't know this.

But did you know that the turrets at the first boss of Aetherochemical Research Facility explode and do room wide AoE if they are ignored or not killed fast enough?
I had a group where DPS and Tank completely ignored both turrets, which exploded and almost wiped us.

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Originally Posted by FinaSel

I didn't know this.

But did you know that the turrets at the first boss of Aetherochemical Research Facility explode and do room wide AoE if they are ignored or not killed fast enough?
I had a group where DPS and Tank completely ignored both turrets, which exploded and almost wiped us.

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Heh I actually found that bit out, Another fun one is the three adds in Sophia, if not dps'd down fast enough they zombie mode everyone. As I learned recently, it's basically a wipe at that point because no one can control where they run.

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Originally Posted by UnstablePersonality

Heh I actually found that bit out, Another fun one is the three adds in Sophia, if not dps'd down fast enough they zombie mode everyone. As I learned recently, it's basically a wipe at that point because no one can control where they run.

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It's not that the adds zombie everyone; it's that the 2 minute debuff everyone has expires. The debuff applied at the start of the add phase inflicts zombie upon KO or when the debuff runs out (it even says in the tooltip); fun fact: Infusion (the PLD attack) doesn't actually inflict zombie, it deals 160k damage which "KO"s the target if not shared, triggering the debuff - it appears to inflict zombie because the debuff restores the target's health to what it was immediately prior to taking fatal damage. If the target of Infusion had already lost the debuff, Infusion will flat-out kill them if not shared. The debuff is safely removed when Sophia begins her ultimate (i.e. after the adds die), similar to that vulnerability up in Nidhogg Ex.

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Originally Posted by Lmcgyver

it deals 160k damage which "KO"s the target if not shared, triggering the debuff .

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In the Sophia fight, do you share the damage?

In our server (/data center) we let 1 person accept the damage alone and become a zombie. They will attack other members, but the damage is negligible, especially the party has regen effect one before the scales come out.
The debuff will wear off by the time Sophia rejoins the fight.

Today my friend got kicked out of a dungeon for using AoEs, because the tank couldn't keep hate.

In Sastasha.

http://puu.sh/ryc91/67b5ca719d.jpg

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Originally Posted by FinaSel

In the Sophia fight, do you share the damage?

In our server (/data center) we let 1 person accept the damage alone and become a zombie. They will attack other members, but the damage is negligible, especially the party has regen effect one before the scales come out.
The debuff will wear off by the time Sophia rejoins the fight.

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Much as I dislike cheesing mechanics like that, yep we ended up doing that too (on account of it being the generally accepted way of doing it, it's less confusing for the random person we invariably end up taking along). I personally think it should wipe the raid if failed (like the one in Thordan does), but it is how it is.

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Originally Posted by Leoheart

In this case, they're matching with colours instead of numbers, Blue & Blue, Red & Red, Purple & Purple, Yellow & Yellow.
A lot of groups I've been with has prominently used the Colour method rather than the number method.

The pro of this is it's easier to match the marks in my opinion, it also gives a little more confidence to the people you're matching it with.
One of the cons is it is initially confusing to those who aren't familiar with this, and there's also colour blind people I've done it with who prefer to go by numbers.

P.S.
I haven't joined any parties on Ragnarok in the PF, but I've had a lot of success with the Raid finder on Sophia.

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Usually, my parties just say "DPS, run to your respective healer / tank" and it works.
All these symbols tend to confuse people more than making things clearer. At least from my experience.
If only the DPS have to move to their partners, there's no need to mark everyone.
But if your method works just fine for you, then I've got nothing more to say about it. :3

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Originally Posted by SilkaN

Usually, my parties just say "DPS, run to your respective healer / tank" and it works.
All these symbols tend to confuse people more than making things clearer. At least from my experience.
If only the DPS have to move to their partners, there's no need to mark everyone.
But if your method works just fine for you, then I've got nothing more to say about it. :3

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Oh I completely agree with you, my first experience was "What the fudge is this nonsense?!" Though you get used to it in the end =)

I'm pretty flexible, But there's always one person who tries to steal your partner for that mechanic and there's a lot of clenching scenario's watching people just barely making it.

Yesterday I did the new Alexander raids again to keep the mechanics fresh in my head. This time I decided that I should take a more... active part in them. I watched the Eyes of the Creator guide yet another time and decided to give the adds activation mechanic a try. I picked up a power generator, dumped it near a scrap pile and proceeded to move to a square with glowing walls when I heard a few chat message alerts. As I looked at the warnings from the party, the lava came up, engulfing me and the robot I had wrongly removed from its good spot. Wipey. Sorry again, guys, I should reserve such tests for learning parties.
A few bosses and several wipes later, I was reunited with my love, Alexander Prime. After drawing three spires in a row, I finally got that yummy balance! Seeing the Propeller Wind coming, I moved to take cover behind one of those metal boulders. I hadn't determined the correct angle of the attack, since it still hit me and led to my demise just as I was anticipating my sweet moment of mass balance glory. To add insult to injury, IRL a stink bug flew over my head and peed on me. We still completed it and I was just sharing my frustration in FC chat when I got disconnected. On the bright side, I managed to finish the whole of Creator normal in one evening, and gained a better grasp on the mechanics. On the other side... That stink bug and is still lurking somewhere in the room, waiting to strike again! And... It's brought some friends.
(I will evict them as soon as I catch them.)

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Originally Posted by Vayanne

That stink bug and is still lurking somewhere in the room, waiting to strike again! And... It's brought some friends.
(I will evict them as soon as I catch them.)

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*throws some Fire IVs to Vayanne's house* BURN THEM, BURN THEM!! *screams panically*

My alt (level 41 scholar) healed a darkknight wearing a freaking mage chestpiece and hat through Stone Vigil. Was horrible to keep her up, and soon after the second boss I couldn't prevent a wipe. When she apologized for having pulled too much (which she didn't), I explained how wearing tank equip would help. The tank didn't answer, but the bard started yelling at me, how the tank is great and the wipe was my fault. Well yeah.

I like how the final boss of Xelphatol (I won't even try to spell his name :P) makes a little Bioware reference when he exorts his hawk minions to "go for the eyes!"

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Originally Posted by FinaSel

I didn't know this.

But did you know that the turrets at the first boss of Aetherochemical Research Facility explode and do room wide AoE if they are ignored or not killed fast enough?
I had a group where DPS and Tank completely ignored both turrets, which exploded and almost wiped us.

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Standard protocol with my friends is to ignore the turrets and full DPS on boss to clear it faster. I go SCH and mostly dps.. Just needs a quick indom after and everyone's good. Communication is key there though.. People have to know to expect it.

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Originally Posted by Korihu

Today my friend got kicked out of a dungeon for using AoEs, because the tank couldn't keep hate.

In Sastasha.

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Sorry but I agree with the tank here. Is it really so hard to hold back a little especially at pulls? Can't your friend give the tank a chance to try and learn to tank? I would have kicked him myself too to be honest. Clearly your friend doesn't play with the party and can't even follow a simple request. I don't care if it's Sastasha or Savage, you don't play with the party and even start a fuss about it? Bai.

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Originally Posted by Leoheart

Oh I completely agree with you, my first experience was "What the fudge is this nonsense?!" Though you get used to it in the end =)

I'm pretty flexible, But there's always one person who tries to steal your partner for that mechanic and there's a lot of clenching scenario's watching people just barely making it.

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Was invited by a friend to a farm group and what they did was have each tank/healer + dps pair in specific places relative to the boss. I think it was something like MT + ranged in front of the boss, OT + melee on right flank, melee + healer on left flank, and 4th dps + healer on rear. Of course with tank swaps the dps paired with the tanks just went to their respective position to be with whoever was MTing or OTing at the time, rather than the specific person. It saved a lot of mess because everyone is spread out and there's no confusion about where your partner is. Also saves the clutter of having a bunch of symbols over people's heads.

When I brought up this strategy later with my friends/static when we were farming together they somehow found this too hard and opted for the "git gud" strategy of running around trying to find your partner and most often being on top of other people. :( There was a lot of dying involved and I had to use healer lb3 on many, many pulls.

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Originally Posted by Bebekurenai

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Question is, did the tank ASK him to stop aoeing before kicking him, or just out-right kick him? Because "dick-move" on the tanks part if he didn't. Dick move on the BLMs part if he did and didn't bother to comply with the tanks request.

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Originally Posted by Lokier

Question is, did the tank ASK him to stop aoeing before kicking him, or just out-right kick him? Because "dick-move" on the tanks part if he didn't. Dick move on the BLMs part if he did and didn't bother to comply with the tanks request.

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Look at the screenie. He did ask.

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Originally Posted by Korihu

Today my friend got kicked out of a dungeon for using AoEs, because the tank couldn't keep hate.

In Sastasha.

http://puu.sh/ryc91/67b5ca719d.jpg

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What baffles me is that there are 6 people who agree with this nonsense lol there goes our community :(

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Originally Posted by Bebekurenai

Sorry but I agree with the tank here. Is it really so hard to hold back a little especially at pulls? Can't your friend give the tank a chance to try and learn to tank? I would have kicked him myself too to be honest.

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Disagree. So because the tank is new and can't do his job, we have to ask the BLM to stop doing his job too? No. Everyone should be responsible for playing to the fullness of their ability all the time. If we're speaking STRICTLY here, the tank deserved the kick, he was the weak link.

HOWEVER, the ideal way to deal with the situation is to try to help the tank improve his level of competency through some small discussion if it's warranted. That way the new tank gets the opportunity to learn how to deal with the challenge of having high AOE dps in the party, which he will be dealing with for the rest of the game. No sense excusing him now, he'll HAVE to learn it eventually or he'll never get past Brayflox's Longstop.

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Originally Posted by Korihu

Today my friend got kicked out of a dungeon for using AoEs, because the tank couldn't keep hate.

In Sastasha.

http://puu.sh/ryc91/67b5ca719d.jpg

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To be fair, holding aggro is rough there because you dont have your tank stance. Plus fresh tanks won't have good gear. That's one of the few places where it's ok to hold back dps. Not like you're doing more than spamming impulse drive anyway...

;_;

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Originally Posted by KaitlanKela

HOWEVER, the ideal way to deal with the situation is to try to help the tank improve his level of competency through some small discussion if it's warranted. That way the new tank gets the opportunity to learn how to deal with the challenge of having high AOE dps in the party, which he will be dealing with for the rest of the game. No sense excusing him now, he'll HAVE to learn it eventually or he'll never get past Brayflox's Longstop.

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That would be vaild if he had his tank stance but since it's Satasha, and he didn't, your BLM is being a douche. Frankly, I'd have let him tank the adds and have him demonstrate why BLM is a glass cannon...

By being the glass of course :)

When me or my fellow tank initiate a ready check, why can't you let us know you're ready by hitting the ok that pops up on your screen instead of pulling the boss yourself. Im looking at you... Scholar...

For shaaaame on that BLM then. My BLM has a small knack for stealing aggro, but if the tank asked me to lower my dps or at least control myself I'd comply, lmao. If their struggle is real you gotta help out.

Or if they're just simply shit at their job you might as well decrease the chances of their stupid ass getting you killed. :P

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Originally Posted by KaitlanKela

Disagree. So because the tank is new and can't do his job, we have to ask the BLM to stop doing his job too? No. Everyone should be responsible for playing to the fullness of their ability all the time. If we're speaking STRICTLY here, the tank deserved the kick, he was the weak link.

HOWEVER, the ideal way to deal with the situation is to try to help the tank improve his level of competency through some small discussion if it's warranted. That way the new tank gets the opportunity to learn how to deal with the challenge of having high AOE dps in the party, which he will be dealing with for the rest of the game. No sense excusing him now, he'll HAVE to learn it eventually or he'll never get past Brayflox's Longstop.

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No, don't stop doing your job, but by going apeshit right at pulls you're not quiet letting the tank do his right? Also, I'm all for performing to our best no matter which situation, but I'm also for giving the new tanks a chance to actually get the basics first before going all out and giving them a taste of what good aoe dps is later on >_> especially when they ask for it. You'd have to be a douche if you really gonna ignore someone's request (which is reasonable enough) and just go with your way of doing things. And really, kicking the tank because of being a weak link?? I am speechless.

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Originally Posted by Aquaslash

To be fair, holding aggro is rough there because you dont have your tank stance.

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PLD doesn't get their "tank stance" until level 40. So it's okay for hate to be all over the place until then?

I don't main tank, but I have played it (DRK 60, WAR 55) and I will tell you that it is entirely possible and not even that hard to keep hate on a group of mobs in Sastasha with no tank stance yet. It requires spam use of your AOE hate skill, followed by rotating your 1 > 2 hate combo through the group. That's it. Not that hard to explain, which is what SHOULD have been done.

Again, BLM doing his job to the best of his ability, tank is not. Who should be kicked (IF you're going to kick someone which really isn't necessary either way)?

ETA: Also, is nobody going to respond to the second half of my post, the proper way to handle it when NOBODY gets kick and rather we just help to new tank learn to do his job? No, we should just cater to him because it's not like there's BLMs pulling aggro all the way up to level 60 content? Give a man a fish vs teach a man to fish...

Ah, GMs are so delightful.

I am now the proud owner of a warning on my account, due to a lovely Brayflox run I had yesterday wherein I was placed with a lancer who not only lacked a soulstone, but ignored adds on bosses (both DPS did), leading to us getting killed, flailed around the mobs not even using combos correctly, and when I asked him about this, the response was "you're a troll" (???) and "shhh it's not your concern."

Well, actually, when we're playing together, it is.

After more pleasantries were exchanged in which I was told I "should suicide", I'm a horrible human being and that I should rid myself from the world, I said I wouldn't be playing anymore and asked to be kicked. Of course, this was met with a refusal, as I should "take the penalty and learn my lesson." Eventually the run ended with a vote abandon, but the next morning I was told I now have a permanent warning on my account for refusing to play with such charming people. Apparently not bothering to even play your class correctly to the detriment of your party and telling people to kill themselves is fine, however.

http://www.relatably.com/m/img/salty-memes/image.jpg :P

I haven't got much to report at the moment, i've been trying to sort out my neglected crafters, managed 20 lvls on my WVR in the past 2 evenings spamming leves... probably only the 2nd/3rd time i've ever used them all :|
The only thing I have done via DF recently was 2 new Alexs - the first... omg. OT who didn't get the pick up bomb > move to add > take add to lava > get out of lava when it happens. So many wipes. But got through eventually.
And then the 2nd one (A10?) I felt terrible cause I lagged so badly I was probably a full min if not 2 behind everyone else... they finished without me at least but i'm gonna have to do it again when my internet's a bit more stable!

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Originally Posted by Lunaxia

Apparently not bothering to even play your class correctly to the detriment of your party and telling people to kill themselves is fine, however.

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Saw a post somewhere about a similar thing earlier... Baffles me. I can kinda understand they wanna cut down on the divas that sit and refuse to play because of something they've decided to be annoyed at, but why should someone have to pay a penalty or in your case get a warning because of others being the awkward ones.. ?

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Originally Posted by Lunaxia

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LOL I know someone who made pretty much the same experience, in Pharos Sirius NM, he eventually refused to play with the WHM who couldn't heal for the sake of his life and wiped the party for a horribly high amount of times - he couldn't kick the WHM, but refused to eat the penalty, and thus got reported and warned.

But... these dudes told you to commit suicide, that's definitely reportable too - you should totally have reported them.

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Originally Posted by Acantha

Saw a post somewhere about a similar thing earlier... Baffles me. I can kinda understand they wanna cut down on the divas that sit and refuse to play because of something they've decided to be annoyed at, but why should someone have to pay a penalty or in your case get a warning because of others being the awkward ones.. ?

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Because two wrongs don't make a right. The only info we have is in regards to the poster. They were warned for refusing to play - ok, justified on its own. Other people involved? More warnings are justified. But we're not going to know what happened to anyone else because I expect that GMs have a policy to not publicly share punishment information.

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Originally Posted by KaitlanKela

ETA: Also, is nobody going to respond to the second half of my post, the proper way to handle it when NOBODY gets kick and rather we just help to new tank learn to do his job? No, we should just cater to him because it's not like there's BLMs pulling aggro all the way up to level 60 content? Give a man a fish vs teach a man to fish...

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I will :D
Of course, this would have applied if the first part of the situation wasn't completely negated by the blm not wanting to cooperate in the first place. We don't know if the tank was a new player or new tank, he was new at something though. Did he not fully play to the best of his abilities? No, but then again, he wasn't given the chance. If I was that tank I would have reacted the exact same way, kicking the blm. If the blm would have slowed down a bit I would actually have asked for advice on how to handle an aoe dps. And If I was the blm, I certainly would have toned down and given advice. In a situation that wouldn't ask for a kick everyone would be happy to help eachother out, but this wasn't the case, and clearly the blm was the culprit. So to answer you, the tank wasn't given the chance to get taught how to fish, and imho, the way the blm acted was not a good way of "teaching a lesson for future dungeons to come". Just nope.

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Originally Posted by Kanitezz

When me or my fellow tank initiate a ready check, why can't you let us know you're ready by hitting the ok that pops up on your screen instead of pulling the boss yourself.

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This. Or when the tank uses a 15 second countdown, how about not pulling at the 5 second mark, but waiting until "Start" appears. It's 5 more seconds, and I don't understand why people insist on pulling before the countdown hits zero. Had an AST in A11 last night pull Cruise at the 10 second mark of the countdown with Disable. So incredibly frustrating, and I'm sure it screwed up the openers of the MNK and NIN in our party.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

This. Or when the tank uses a 15 second countdown, how about not pulling at the 5 second mark, but waiting until "Start" appears. It's 5 more seconds, and I don't understand why people insist on pulling before the countdown hits zero. Had an AST in A11 last night pull Cruise at the 10 second mark of the countdown with Disable. So incredibly frustrating, and I'm sure it screwed up the openers of the MNK and NIN in our party.

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to play Devil's advocate....15 seconds is really too long for a timer. Knock that thing down to 5. 5 seconds is plenty of time to hit cooldowns after a ready check has been completed.

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Originally Posted by HyoMinPark

This. Or when the tank uses a 15 second countdown, how about not pulling at the 5 second mark, but waiting until "Start" appears. It's 5 more seconds, and I don't understand why people insist on pulling before the countdown hits zero. Had an AST in A11 last night pull Cruise at the 10 second mark of the countdown with Disable. So incredibly frustrating, and I'm sure it screwed up the openers of the MNK and NIN in our party.

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Personally I always wind up pulling a bit early; around 4-5 seconds or so, simply because I've noticed a tendency of everyone to immediately begin attacking the boss at Start. Ranged especially. So if as the Tank I don't go a bit before to secure aggro, it can get...a bit messy.

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Originally Posted by Annah

to play Devil's advocate....15 seconds is really too long for a timer. Knock that thing down to 5. 5 seconds is plenty of time to hit cooldowns after a ready check has been completed.

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Certain jobs require the 15 seconds to have an optimal opener, e.g Ninja

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Originally Posted by Annah

to play Devil's advocate....15 seconds is really too long for a timer. Knock that thing down to 5. 5 seconds is plenty of time to hit cooldowns after a ready check has been completed.

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Originally Posted by Wadey

Certain jobs require the 15 seconds to have an optimal opener, e.g Ninja

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And that's why I set it to 15 because we had NINs in three of the four times we ran a11 yesterday for loot. I have a friend who mains NIN, and he gets mad when people pull before the 15 seconds because it messes with his opener. So I learned from him to allow them time to get their stuff situated (I'm guess Huton? I don't play NIN so I'm not sure tbh). My MNK friend likes 10 seconds so he can form shift into Coeurl. Some MNKs may prefer shorter ones, but that's what he prefers.

And timer, or no timer, healers (or anyone really) shouldn't pull before the tank. Have some patience people. I've tanked some dungeons where the healer was DPSing a lot and was at half MP, so I calmly wait for their MP to regen close to full, and DPS get impatient and pull.

The way my DRK opener is, I activate my Dark Arts at 5 seconds, start towards a boss, and Unmend at "Start", then follow up with Carve n Spit and my aggro combo with DA+Power Slash. I just try to give others time they need to prepare their opener. A lot of groups I've been in use the default 15 second countdown even if we don't have NINs or MNKs. Maybe 5 seconds is fine, but I'd just rather be courteous to the others and give them the time to prepare. :3

In response to the responses to the image I posted.

The run still goes faster either way, mobs in Sastasha do such little damage even if they get peeled off.
I hated tanking and never wanted to touch it again (until they released the tank mounts), the main reason for that was my inability to keep hate when I was leveling my Gladiator. Because while leveling, you just can't compete with the higher leveled, fully geared DPS. BUT while that feeling sucks, I was still happy when they DID use their AoEs, because it made the runs *so* much faster, and frankly there aren't enough DPS that know their AoE skills lol. Furthermore mobs in low level dungeons like Sastasha do such pitiful damage in the first place and will die quickly to the onslaught of AoE that the healer shouldn't be too stressed to heal anyway. I've had lots of moments like that and I just continue Cleric Stancing on my way while my fairy continued to heal everything.
Besides, it was a good learning experience to see what I could do to keep hate before I got Shield Oath. I personally ended up spamming Flash, then using the MP giving combo, and then more flash. :p

Maybe it was rude of my friend not to listen to the tank, but if every tank I ever peeled off of in low level dungeons asked me to just stop, I'd have to just stop attacking bosses entirely because, while it sucks, a level synced monk who uses his cooldowns and does his best to destroy the enemy ASAP is inevitably going to pull off of a leveling, or inexperienced tank. And what does this achieve? It just makes the enemy stay alive longer so the tank can wiggle around and not have to push himself to try to get mobs back?

Maybe I'm too much of an advocate of throwing people off the deep end to get them to learn.

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Originally Posted by Bebekurenai

Is it really so hard to hold back a little especially at pulls? Can't your friend give the tank a chance to try and learn to tank? I would have kicked him myself too to be honest. Clearly your friend doesn't play with the party and can't even follow a simple request...

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Question. If normal AOE can take hate from tank frequently that we have to stop using, where should we use AOE? In single play? In PVP? And what's the meaning of pulling a group, if tank can not keep the hate under AOE?
I'm not shifting all the responsibility onto tank, but if AOE of a job can OT easily, it's the game designer's fault. If nothing is wrong with the designing, it's tank's fault indeed. If tanks feel incompetent for their job, why don't they leave, rather than to kick others?
I've OT for times, none of which was caused by "AOE", for the average damage is low. Instead, "sudden huge damage on a single target which tank is not pulling much" is the general cause.

The problem is the fact that the scenario gives the tank no chance to grow. It's incredibly frustrating to be doing your best only to see your DPS rip aggro anyway, and it unfortunately happens often to low level tanks, especially GLD.

Don't forget that spammimg Flash between combos drains MP rapidly, and the MP combo does minimum to build and keep aggro. It's difficult even with your DPS following you.

To give you an idea, I had to mark enemies as I leveled as any AoEs would tear aggro off of me rapidly, even when rotating enemies while comboing.

I'm PLD, other tank WAR. Ifrit HM. I go in to MT, WAR pulls countdown, I make the arsey move of pulling beforehand, but to me a WAR should be OT next to a PLD as they do a lot more damage. So I'm using provoke and such, but he's like "No mine", I say WAR does more damage (meaning should go DPS stance). He doesn't do anything, I went into a fit of blind rage and yanked off the power from my PC. I'm actually hoping Square Enix actually turn around and permaban me from the game for that, that's how annoyed I am, that's how far I went to ragequit, that I probably deserve it. I'm usually a lot calmer than this too and just roll with it, so I don't know what happened today, but still, definitely a permaban offence from me in my opinion. Heh, maybe a 500 year lockout from DF/RF could work? That way I can do overworld content and stuff OK, but good luck farming tomestones or anything!

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Originally Posted by Paladinleeds

wtf

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Your posts never cease to baffle me.