They Should Add An Official Damage Meter With One Condition

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

..you didnt read the TOS before clicking "I accept"? That part about "third party programs'?



The moment you start throwing dps numbers about in contravention of the TOS, it IS their business.



Yes, it is , and has been so for a very long time.

Use the parser to analyse your own performance.....as long as you DONT harass others. LEAVE EVERYONE ELSE ALONE.

How hard is that?

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Tell that to the toxic casuals mass reporting people for streaming with it.

I thought the reason it was disallowed was harassment potential.

*Clearly* that's not the case. In fact, dare I say, neurotic toxic casuals are encouraged by the TOS to harass anyone they suspect of parsing with reports. Because they did just last week.

So take your own advice, and LEAVE EVERYONE ELSE ALONE.

look at when asmongold came, prolly same people harassed him bc they didnt want their game to be toxic. So their awnser was to grief and be toxic.

Toxic is gana be toxic when toxic can no mater the form.

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Tell that to the toxic casuals mass reporting people for streaming with it.

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In both the Arthars case and in this one, the suspension was enacted PRECISELY because they were streaming FF 14 content with addons visible. They were PUBLICALLY broadcasting a stream with addons they KNEW were not allowed.

Arthars was streaming from a VERIFIED Twitch channel.

Let me restate: they were streaming FF 14 raid content on a public channel whilst they were using addons and meters they KNEW they were not allowed to use. They were reported for that and rightly so. You may not like it, but they broke TOS and did so in front of thousands of viewers.

Im sorry they got suspended, but thats on them and no one else. It also sent a message to other streamers, dont do this. Hopefully, they will listen.

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Originally Posted by VelKallor

In both the Arthars case and in this one, the suspension was enacted PRECISELY because they were streaming FF 14 content with addons visible. They were PUBLICALLY broadcasting a stream with addons they KNEW were not allowed.

Arthars was streaming from a VERIFIED Twitch channel.

Let me restate: they were streaming FF 14 raid content on a public channel whilst they were using addons and meters they KNEW they were not allowed to use. They were reported for that and rightly so. You may not like it, but they broke TOS and did so in front of thousands of viewers.

Im sorry they got suspended, but thats on them and no one else.

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Ah, the Motte and Bailey switch I knew was coming next.

So where's the problem? Rules exist for a reason. In theory, at least. Good rules should be written with attention paid to their foundational reasoning. Why are parsers against the TOS? I've heard over and over and over and over and over and over again that it's the harassment potential.

And the moment we point at a prominent example where the *stated reason* behind that rule wasn't in play at all, said rule was enforced anyway. So what is the takeaway from this? It's certainly not "harassment is bad". It's "third party tools are punishable if 5chan gets mad about it".

Claiming it's about harassment potential, then when confronted with the fact that public, visible enforcement has nothing whatsoever to do with harassment fleeing to the Motte of "who cares it's against the rules either way SO THERE" is a boring trick. Save it for the tourists. Your beef isn't with harassment, it's with the existence of facts. Stats. Math.

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Originally Posted by Semirhage

Now it's not a don't ask don't tell scenario. FFXIV has a bunch of Puritanical witch burning killjoys, and they can bite me.

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This is what occurs when you have one stiflingly strict TOS.

People have not suddenly lost the urge to tell others to sod off they are only incapable of doing so.

Nope nope instead of two words we get fifteen paragraphs of passive aggressive. Cannot respond with sod off either ohhhhh no no. The ones that wield the TOS for purpose of bludgeoning others are so exceedingly good at identifying loopholes themselves. If they applied that same gumption to mastering their preferred jobs we would not even be having discussion about number aggregators.

Getting vibes most strong of "I was yeeted from my static and flamed in groups for my small peepee damage in WoW" from this thread.

Mmhmm! So they came to FF14 land hoping things would be different. Got the bad news! Nobody with a functioning brain will enjoy carrying dead weight, especially not when that dead weight decides to kick and scream like a toddler. Doth not matter how much moral grandstanding anyone does about how "accepting" they are. I get the feisty. They get the feisty. We all get the feisty.

There is not one single static in existence that requires damage meters to deduce the weakest link four days into prog. They know. Everyone present knows because everyone present is expending time for that clear.

No amount of banning third party tools is going to make others accept someone into high level content who is clearly not ready. Eat your food, take your tinctures, and have more then basic understanding of your rotation or stay away from the optional content if you cannot comprehend this.

Anyone who believed FF14 was somehow different from other mmos was only deluding themselves. Instead of typing "Am sorry, your damage is too low" they instead disband into silently blacklisting you. Tis unchanging fact of reality. No matter how rude the first statement may appear at the least it offers you something to parse. The second option merely leaves you wondering why.

I love how the people that have oh-so-much experience with oh-so-many MMOs keep ignoring the fact that the reason why straightforward insults were more common in WoW than here was the lack of moderation.
People only get temp/ perma bans in extreme cases. I saw the same people in battlegrounds saying things like "keep zerging like idiots, good fucking job you morons" for months and they didn't face consequences for their language. Adding to that that the MMO playerbase was younger in the earlier days of WoW than here and you had a bunch of teenagers/ young adults doing what they wanted. It doesn't take a genius to know where this would go but apparently it's still too difficult for some people to grasp the difference.

Parsers were not the reason for straight up insulting being more common there than it is here.
The lack of moderation was.
Accept it.
We have very strict moderation here.
Adding a parser would change nothing about the ToS to protect people from harassment or their enforcement.
So keep telling everyone and their grandma about your "But then everyone will scream and yell obscenities at the top of their lungs non stop and people are helpless against it" apocalyptic scenarios - it doesn't make them true and doesn't disguise that the true beef isn't with harassment when neither the ToS about harassment nor their enforcement would change.

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So keep telling everyone and their grandma about your "But then everyone will scream and yell obscenities at the top of their lungs non stop and people are helpless against it" apocalyptic scenarios - it doesn't make them true and doesn't disguise that the true beef isn't with harassment when neither the ToS about harassment nor their enforcement would change.

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I said that the parser was a factor, not a main cause. i never said otherwise. From one leads to the other. Quite frankly, Im not the only one who saw this, I could try and explain further, but theres no use in arguing with a closed mind. Suffice it to say that that factor is one in a concatenation of avoidable mistakes made over the last ten years.

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Originally Posted by SwingLifeAway

Literally just ignore VelKallor
They and their opinions are entirely irrelevant in this conversation
They just post emotional and nonsensical garbage to derail threads until their post count is done for the day and then log off

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Yeah I get the feeling that they're unreasonably upset over the whole DPS parser thing - practically unhinged in a way.

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Originally Posted by SwingLifeAway

Literally just ignore VelKallor
They and their opinions are entirely irrelevant in this conversation
They just post emotional and nonsensical garbage to derail threads until their post count is done for the day and then log off

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I'm surprised people are still engaging with them considering they were lying/being super sus about their "parse harassment" stories in the beginning of this thread lol

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Originally Posted by Semirhage

Ah, the Motte and Bailey switch I knew was coming next.

So where's the problem? Rules exist for a reason. In theory, at least. Good rules should be written with attention paid to their foundational reasoning. Why are parsers against the TOS? I've heard over and over and over and over and over and over again that it's the harassment potential.

And the moment we point at a prominent example where the *stated reason* behind that rule wasn't in play at all, said rule was enforced anyway. So what is the takeaway from this? It's certainly not "harassment is bad". It's "third party tools are punishable if 5chan gets mad about it".

Claiming it's about harassment potential, then when confronted with the fact that public, visible enforcement has nothing whatsoever to do with harassment fleeing to the Motte of "who cares it's against the rules either way SO THERE" is a boring trick. Save it for the tourists. Your beef isn't with harassment, it's with the existence of facts. Stats. Math.

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The classic it's bad because it's against the rules and it's against the rules because it's bad circle. If you get someone to break out of that, let me know. People like that would be upset about freeing slaves because it was technically against the law.

Think it so more has to do with the idea that the laws should be changed to reflect the new change in view. Though if someone went onto a person's land to free their slaves sure what they did was right but if they got shot or jailed for such an action tbh I doubt they would :pepeshocked: when they were found to have broken the law.

I am sorry asking for forgiveness instead of permission is a silly concept and that is what this largely boils down to.

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Originally Posted by Bobby66

Think it so more has to do with the idea that the laws should be changed to reflect the new change in view. Though if someone went onto a person's land to free their slaves sure what they did was right but if they got shot or jailed for such an action tbh I doubt they would :pepeshocked: when they were found to have broken the law.

I am sorry asking for forgiveness instead of permission is a silly concept and that is what this largely boils down to.

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Where does this gloating come from? Could it happen, yea sure. Is there any sense in it happening this way? Not really. People send those reports, people handle those reports, people decide on how to act on them. The people sending those brigade reports are bad actors so I am aware dishonest people exist but the people handling reports (and thus doing the moderation) should be held to a higher standard because they hold more power. Just because something isnt surprising doesnt mean we should just roll over and be okay with it. Ignoring and defying unjust laws is the civil duty of everyone, the scale of that varies of course from one issue to the next but the principle is the same.

All these rule lawyer posts boil down to well you shouldnt be surprised. Okay, so what? That doesnt make the underlying issue any smarter.

Let me ask you this. If someone suddenly told you you scored 12 points and left it at this would it mean anything? No extra information, no context nothing. Just a number. And that's what DPS meter would be in vacuum. There's really a lot of work that's needed to be done if there's ever going to be serious attempt at using Damage Meter as an improvement tool for players there's a lot of data you actively need provide at moment's notice. What's average damage? How does Player's performance compare to it? What's practically achievable maximum at any stadium if the class progression? How much of that is actively required to clear content at given level and difficulty. Without this data to draw on the Damage Meter isn't different from any random scoring method. Just assigning score among party members without putting it into context doesn't invoke Improvement but may lead to even more toxic interactions even if they wouldn't cross the lines marked by ToS. We're already damn creative at being pricks to one another without breaking it.

Ultimately it's not a bad idea but it's something that would require titanic effort to implement right. Effort that neither Devs or community is willing to put.

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Originally Posted by Jaquan

Ultimately it's not a bad idea but it's something that would require titanic effort to implement right. Effort that neither Devs or community is willing to put.

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So then just let us use our own without being afraid of eating a ban because some puritanical loser wants to do a funny?

I'm glad all the addons are not in FF. I've seen everything drop dead in dungeons fast and people still complain about dps. Why? We are not dying every 5 seconds and the run is going fine, but god forbid some one does 1 dps to low, the world might end. Keep addons out of ffxiv.

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Originally Posted by SwingLifeAway

So then just let us use our own without being afraid of eating a ban because some puritanical loser wants to do a funny?

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Nothing is currently stopping you from that unless you stream or are toxic to other players with it. The fact you're so concerned about being banned for it would seem to suggest, like when people were upset of the TOS "not letting them give advice anymore", that you're probably using it to be toxic and want a free pass to do it. You're not going to get that.

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Originally Posted by Saraide

Where does this gloating come from? Could it happen, yea sure. Is there any sense in it happening this way? Not really. People send those reports, people handle those reports, people decide on how to act on them. The people sending those brigade reports are bad actors so I am aware dishonest people exist but the people handling reports (and thus doing the moderation) should be held to a higher standard because they hold more power. Just because something isnt surprising doesnt mean we should just roll over and be okay with it. Ignoring and defying unjust laws is the civil duty of everyone, the scale of that varies of course from one issue to the next but the principle is the same.

All these rule lawyer posts boil down to well you shouldnt be surprised. Okay, so what? That doesnt make the underlying issue any smarter.

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Cause that is the thing people are acting shocked, and honestly they have no reason to be shocked. I agree we should discuses the rules and how they do not reflect the current needs, but that does not mean that those that have been caught in the cross fire of breaking the rules should be treated as those that did not break the rules. Until they rules are changed the should be treated like any other rule breaker even if their reasoning behind breaking the rules is a noble one. It is a civil duty to defy unjust laws sure, but in doing so one must understand the inherent risk that comes with standing up to so called injustice or unjust laws / practices. Also let us be real people were not using this mods as a means of standing up to unjust rules, they were doing it solely out of convenience. These actions were not done as a means of trying to right some wrong or stand up for the little guy who uses tools for accessibility reasons.

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Originally Posted by Bobby66

Cause that is the thing people are acting shocked, and honestly they have no reason to be shocked. I agree we should discuses the rules and how they do not reflect the current needs, but that does not mean that those that have been caught in the cross fire of breaking the rules should be treated as those that did not break the rules. Until they rules are changed the should be treated like any other rule breaker even if their reasoning behind breaking the rules is a noble one. It is a civil duty to defy unjust laws sure, but in doing so one must understand the inherent risk that comes with standing up to so called injustice or unjust laws / practices. Also let us be real people were not using this mods as a means of standing up to unjust rules, they were doing it solely out of convenience. These actions were not done as a means of trying to right some wrong or stand up for the little guy who uses tools for accessibility reasons.

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I'm sorry to burst your bubble here but the point of these threads is not "surprise".

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Originally Posted by Saraide

I'm sorry to burst your bubble here but the point of these threads is not "surprise".

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Aye, yeah the point of the all these threads are to have a civil discussion about how certain features should be added to the game as a baseline. Hardly any of them are about how silly it is to be punished for breaking a rule regarding 3rd party tools.

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Originally Posted by Bobby66

Aye, yeah the point of the all these threads are to have a civil discussion about how certain features should be added to the game as a baseline. Hardly any of them are about how silly it is to be punished for breaking a rule regarding 3rd party tools.

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The point is that certain "rule breaks" are not worth to go after because they dont go against the underlying idea of why those rules were put in place. SE instead of that appears to go by what malicous no-life forum dwellers on 5chan tell them to do. The approach of going by whatever the mob on that forum decides will always lead to people who havent harmed anyone will get hit. There is nothing stopping these people from just making up evidence either. They have done so in the past.

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Originally Posted by Saraide

The point is that certain "rule breaks" are not worth to go after because they dont go against the underlying idea of why those rules were put in place. SE instead of that appears to go by what malicous no-life forum dwellers on 5chan tell them to do. The approach of going by whatever the mob on that forum decides will always lead to people who havent harmed anyone will get hit. There is nothing stopping these people from just making up evidence either. They have done so in the past.

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The dingo story comes to mind. 5chan faked images of him using 3rd party addons. He was banned, his abuser was not. Clown world 🤡

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Originally Posted by Saraide

The point is that certain "rule breaks" are not worth to go after because they dont go against the underlying idea of why those rules were put in place. SE instead of that appears to go by what malicous no-life forum dwellers on 5chan tell them to do. The approach of going by whatever the mob on that forum decides will always lead to people who havent harmed anyone will get hit. There is nothing stopping these people from just making up evidence either. They have done so in the past.

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Who is the one that defines what rule breaks are worth going after? I agree the rules should better reflect what is allowed and what is not allowed. This whole gray area of don't talk about it, and one will not get punished has always been a dangerous one in my opinion. I agree it is not easy to come up with an exhausted list of approved addons and I get it will have to be monitored and changing the ToS to reflect such adjustments would be annoying and most likely not even worth the effort.

Also we cannot say for certain it is done with malicious intent across the board by an objective metric. Sure based around common sense it is that way, but one thing I do say about GM's here at SE they hardly ever punish based around circumstantial evidence, which for better or worse does allow for such acts like this and many others to go unpunished or punished unjustly. Sure no system is perfect and some GM's do not do their due diligence. In these case we cannot say that to be, the person that was banned did have 3rd party tools clearly visible.

The rules should be changed, but those who broke the rules are not victims here. Even if an army of no lifers made it their mission to ruin their fun. SE is not selectively targeting them. I do hope SE does add many plugin features as a baseline, but I also do feel that we should inform those that do openly use 3rd party tools the inherent risks that come with doing such. MrHappy, is a good example man streams without using 3rd party tools. It is possible, want to stream and not get punished do not use 3rd party tools until a change is made.

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Originally Posted by SwingLifeAway

So then just let us use our own without being afraid of eating a ban because some puritanical loser wants to do a funny?

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If you leave no proof, mention it nowhere when it can be linked to your character then you're free to use them. You won't be banned for those simply due to lack of proof unless you post a screenshot or stream with the damage tracker visible. Crazy Puritans can kiss your behind if they won't have any proof or at the very least you won't get banned for 3rd party tools.

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Originally Posted by Bobby66

Who is the one that defines what rule breaks are worth going after?

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Well what constitutes a rule break worth going after is the central question of this entire thing, isnt it? For that it could not be less helpful and constructive than to point at the exact letters of the ToS.

You really think there won't be any toxicity over "your damage sucks"?

I think you might be a little delusional. I'm willing to bet that most people use/want damage meters not to see their own dps improve and learn from the data, but rather to see if they're better than the other guy.

Gamers have big egos. A lot of us just want to be the best. We want to blow things up and see big numbers. And if my number is bigger than your number then I win.

And I'm willing to bet that that's the primary reason people want damage meters. But they won't admit it of course.

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Originally Posted by Saimeren

Gamers have big egos. A lot of us just want to be the best. We want to blow things up and see big numbers. And if my number is bigger than your number then I win.

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And? TOS stays the same.

You inadvertently exposed why a lot of people DON'T want it in the game. It's not because of "toxicity" it's because people don't want their performance quantified with readily accessible objective data.

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Originally Posted by Bobby66

Who is the one that defines what rule breaks are worth going after? I agree the rules should better reflect what is allowed and what is not allowed. This whole gray area of don't talk about it, and one will not get punished has always been a dangerous one in my opinion. I agree it is not easy to come up with an exhausted list of approved addons and I get it will have to be monitored and changing the ToS to reflect such adjustments would be annoying and most likely not even worth the effort.

Also we cannot say for certain it is done with malicious intent across the board by an objective metric. Sure based around common sense it is that way, but one thing I do say about GM's here at SE they hardly ever punish based around circumstantial evidence, which for better or worse does allow for such acts like this and many others to go unpunished or punished unjustly. Sure no system is perfect and some GM's do not do their due diligence. In these case we cannot say that to be, the person that was banned did have 3rd party tools clearly visible.

The rules should be changed, but those who broke the rules are not victims here. Even if an army of no lifers made it their mission to ruin their fun. SE is not selectively targeting them. I do hope SE does add many plugin features as a baseline, but I also do feel that we should inform those that do openly use 3rd party tools the inherent risks that come with doing such. MrHappy, is a good example man streams without using 3rd party tools. It is possible, want to stream and not get punished do not use 3rd party tools until a change is made.

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If a petty thief, a shoplifter, gets run over by a car... is he a victim?

I'd say yes. You can be a criminal ANd a victim. The people have broken a fairly minor rule with very minimal harm to others. So yes, the punishment from SE is justified. But the targeted harassment of the community was not justified. And thus I'd say yes, they qualify both as rulebreaker and victim. And while their punishment should hold... as I said earlier in this thread, the people who orchestrated the harassment campaign for no reason? They should be banned too. Because they're far worse for the community and harassment is DEFINITELY also against the ToS. Including using 'reporting' as a form of harassment.

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Originally Posted by Saraide

Well what constitutes a rule break worth going after is the central question of this entire thing, isnt it? For that it could not be less helpful and constructive than to point at the exact letters of the ToS.

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If we go based off the current ToS then isn't going after those that use any 3rd party tool a rule break worth going after? What information would be more helpful and constructive to use to determine what is a rule break worth punishing?

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Originally Posted by Elesh

If a petty thief, a shoplifter, gets run over by a car... is he a victim?

I'd say yes. You can be a criminal ANd a victim. The people have broken a fairly minor rule with very minimal harm to others. So yes, the punishment from SE is justified. But the targeted harassment of the community was not justified. And thus I'd say yes, they qualify both as rulebreaker and victim. And while their punishment should hold... as I said earlier in this thread, the people who orchestrated the harassment campaign for no reason? They should be banned too. Because they're far worse for the community and harassment is DEFINITELY also against the ToS. Including using 'reporting' as a form of harassment.

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I would not say those are the same, the shoplifer is a victim of being hit by the car. The case regarding the 3rd party tools they are victims of targeted harassment, they broke a rule and got reported. The targeted harassment is a byproduct of their rule break. I mean maybe if the shoplifer was hit by the car trying to avoid the police and did not look both ways and ran into ongoing traffic then yeah I would also say they lose all rights to being a victim in that regard also.

Yes it is against the rules but the problem with the report as a form of harassment is one of those things you cannot objectively prove and I doubt anyone wants GM's to ban people on feeling or subjective takes. I agree on a personal level it is harassment, but I will say best way to protect oneself from that form of harassment is to just not give such people ammo.

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Originally Posted by Bobby66

If we go based off the current ToS then isn't going after those that use any 3rd party tool a rule break worth going after? What information would be more helpful and constructive to use to determine what is a rule break worth punishing?

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Obviously going by wether these people are causing harm to other players should be the central thing to care about.

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Originally Posted by Saraide

Obviously going by wether these people are causing harm to other players should be the central thing to care about.

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So if someone reports saying x behavior causes them harm it is a valid report? Who determines if an action does cause harm or not? That is the problem with enforcing rules based around a spectrum instead of was x rule broken. Not was x rule broken under y circumstance. I do agree it would be nice if SE just came out and said x mods are approved y mods are not though.

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Originally Posted by Bobby66

So if someone reports saying x behavior causes them harm it is a valid report? Who determines if an action does cause harm or not? That is the problem with enforcing rules based around a spectrum instead of was x rule broken. Not was x rule broken under y circumstance. I do agree it would be nice if SE just came out and said x mods are approved y mods are not though.

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Enforcement based on a spectrum doesn't work, but creating rules based on harm in the first place works. If Square wants to ban all mods because they don't control them, then fine. If they want to ban parsers because they have a "possibility of harassment", that's a steaming pile of manure. It's clear the toxic casuals don't give a crap about harm, they've shown it over and over and over again that it's because they have a boiling hatred for any person, real or hypothetical or made of straw in their minds, who dares suggest they could improve.

If you're going to ban parsers as a company, just say it's because your overly bubble-wrapped babied playerbase is too immature to handle being shown their own numbers. It's the actual reason for it, after all.

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Originally Posted by Semirhage

Enforcement based on a spectrum doesn't work, but creating rules based on harm in the first place works. If Square wants to ban all mods because they don't control them, then fine. If they want to ban parsers because they have a "possibility of harassment", that's a steaming pile of manure. It's clear the toxic casuals don't give a crap about harm, they've shown it over and over and over again that it's because they have a boiling hatred for any person, real or hypothetical or made of straw in their minds, who dares suggest they could improve.

If you're going to ban parsers as a company, just say it's because your overly bubble-wrapped babied playerbase is too immature to handle being shown their own numbers. It's the actual reason for it, after all.

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Come on we all know Yoshi-P will not come out and say we cannot have parsers because our community is riddled with snowflakes. Taking the stance that parsing is bad due to potential harassment is far easier. Granted it does not help that under the watch of Yoshi-P during some online event a japanese host was harassed for poor performance. I forgot the name of the event but Yoshi-P was not not pleased. Yoshi-P is one of the people that live in the bubble world where parsing is inherently bad.

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Originally Posted by Bobby66

Come on we all know Yoshi-P will not come out and say we cannot have parsers because our community is riddled with snowflakes. Taking the stance that parsing is bad due to potential harassment is far easier. Granted it does not help that under the watch of Yoshi-P during some online event a japanese host was harassed for poor performance. I forgot the name of the event but Yoshi-P was not not pleased. Yoshi-P is one of the people that live in the bubble world where parsing is inherently bad.

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It leaves a sour taste in my mouth that YoshiP has watched world first streams with parser overlays blatantly in front of his face, and hasn't objected to them or punished them at all. But THIS time, the snowflakes on 5chan pitched a fit about it, and bans rolled out.

So clearly enforcement is based on whether the casuals decide to get pissed over something that doesn't concern them. I'd rather Square not foster the kind of community where the TOS gets wielded as a cudgel by the least-knowledgeable, most easily offended portion of the playerbase.

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Originally Posted by Semirhage

It leaves a sour taste in my mouth that YoshiP has watched world first streams with parser overlays blatantly in front of his face, and hasn't objected to them or punished them at all. But THIS time, the snowflakes on 5chan pitched a fit about it, and bans rolled out.

So clearly enforcement is based on whether the casuals decide to get pissed over something that doesn't concern them. I'd rather Square not foster the kind of community where the TOS gets wielded as a cudgel by the least-knowledgeable, most easily offended portion of the playerbase.

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This is exactly right. They have to react if they see a bunch of reports, but they don't actually care

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Originally Posted by Hoodcat

Lost Ark used as an example again, the game that ranks a person as MVP with dmg and bascially has a damage meter with the % dmg done after the fight.

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It also has extradimensional Training Rooms into which one can summon, by pretty finely customizable choice, any number of enemies --ranging from from common mobs to rares to outright bosses-- around which to test one's uptime maximization... complete with an in-game parser.

Honestly, if our SSS were similarly customizable to simulate actual raid environments and much of their cognitive load / intensity, we'd probably have far fewer players who'd feel like a parser is necessary for enrage-based higher-end content.

Now, having a usable-anywhere parser would still be a great and convenient tool to have for casual experimentation and comparing one's performances (better still if instead used nominal relative potency --which isn't so stat and luck-driven-- and could be toggled between Raw, Adjusted, and Raid relative potency per second), but at least the game wouldn't then essentially be blinding its players (as well as they can through regulations enforceable only on streamers) to information given freely in most MMOs in the interest of making its content last longer through artificial difficulty.

Going out of one's way to prevent information access (long before the third-party addons controversy it was those who let others in on how the game's stats actually work who were getting suspensions) is honestly of little difference from outright outlawing guides; you're simply removing the primary means of proving out better/best practices instead of the primary means of sharing those better/best practices (that would otherwise be rightly held suspect if they were denied precise empirical forms of measurement).

I don't know why it's a debate... I'm certain the producer meant the call out part of act or the other ones making aoe appears in advance.

not ACT, I mean, if he was so against it why would he add multiple DPS checks as a mechanic.

and do something so when players do something right they get hints at it, all you get from this are numbers, no visual clues about a rotation well done.

heck the game also has a difference between magical damages and physical one and while the animation is a clue in itself, some attacks are magical and you will not expect it

(e.g. bugs using darkness type attack as their attacks and good luck figuring this out without act or a proper meter for tank or heal check)

Best place to put a damage meter would be to attach it to the "record" feature, and then they just remove the limitation on what missions you can record.

Once it's recorded, a few minutes after, the next playback gets you bars and details and breakdowns.

Should be trivial.

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Originally Posted by ICountFrom0

Best place to put a damage meter would be to attach it to the "record" feature, and then they just remove the limitation on what missions you can record.

Once it's recorded, a few minutes after, the next playback gets you bars and details and breakdowns.

Should be trivial.

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That ok for reviewing footage but monitoring damage/healing/damage taken metrics are important while you are actively doing the fight itself to see if there can be improvement in the moment. Your group tries one strat and then tries another strat and see how far they got and whether or not there was an increase in performance.

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Originally Posted by ICountFrom0

Best place to put a damage meter would be to attach it to the "record" feature, and then they just remove the limitation on what missions you can record.

Once it's recorded, a few minutes after, the next playback gets you bars and details and breakdowns.

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Ideally, though, you want to make this kind of at-a-glance information convenient enough for casual experimentation as to keep it a quick, accessible learning tool. Boxing it instead into a feature within a feature is... not that.

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Originally Posted by VerdeLuck

Nothing is currently stopping you from that unless you stream or are toxic to other players with it. The fact you're so concerned about being banned for it would seem to suggest, like when people were upset of the TOS "not letting them give advice anymore", that you're probably using it to be toxic and want a free pass to do it. You're not going to get that.

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I've been playing the game since 2017 without ever once receiving a warning, so nice reach man. Personally I am not concerned about being banned, I just do not like the principle of the situation as using the TOS as a weapon against people who have done nothing wrong is just simply an injustice.

Maybe you should stop trying to villainize people who disagree with you and actually read what they are saying, because from pretty much every post I have seen from you, you are failing entirely to do that. You're not participating in the conversation, you're here to post your "holier than thou" opinion to make yourself look good, in who's eyes I have no idea, but I hope they appreciate it because you seem quite relentless in your efforts to grandstand for them.

I will continue to play the game I enjoy, and I will continue to argue that people who are peacefully minding their own business should be allowed to stream with addons, without fearing that some random individuals will get them banned from the game. If you think that's toxic, then there is nothing more I can say to convince you, and you're free to continue believing that. I just feel sorry for you if that's the case.