[Suggestion] Fashion/Vanity Slots.

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Originally Posted by Soukyuu

The idea of the vanity system is to allow people to wear what they want and display it to other people without having to sacrifice stats. Giving a toggle option for someone else's vanity display is negating the basic idea of the system.

It's really ridiculous how people are fixed on the idea vanity will be abused to run around naked/in seasonal gear.

Claiming vanity breaks realism in a fantasy game is not any better either.

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No offense, but that's a pretty selfish argument and an imposition

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Originally Posted by Shougun

Lack of finance and ability. Games that do that now either do it as a tip of the hat to the classics or dont have enough funds.

"equipping uber plate mail of heaviness" and still wearing a cloth shirt is stupid. But exceptions were made because it was unreasonable to expect a fresh model for every character.

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so the creaters of FFXIII and XIII-2 were poor and lacked ability?

I have a hard time telling brown from Red...

and blues and purples...

and dark blue sox with black sox :c

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Originally Posted by Reika

so the creaters of FFXIII and XIII-2 were poor and lacked ability?

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"or tip of the hat to the classics" - They wanted to maintain an iconic look they gave each character.

However in this realm at no point can you change the gear look.

If you are saying this makes you happy then sure I can live with it. Tell SE to make each of us have a badass look that can NEVER change. No matter what we try to do it will never change.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

"or tip of the hat to the classics" - They wanted to maintain an iconic look they gave each character.

However in this realm at no point can you change the gear look.

If you are saying this makes you happy then sure I can live with it. Tell SE to make each of us have a badass look that can NEVER change. No matter what we try to do it will never change.

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Sure, I'll ask for vanity slots so I can come up with a look for my char I think is bad ass so......... o wait.

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Originally Posted by Reika

Sure, I'll ask for vanity slots so I can come up with a look for my char I think is bad ass so......... o wait.

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And if I find it atrocious I can just toggle to your real display, we all win.

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Originally Posted by Reika

Sure, I'll ask for vanity slots so I can come up with a look for my char I think is bad ass so......... o wait.

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No. In this realm (FFXIV) you can change your slots. In the example realm the other poster made you couldnt.

We are given the precedent of changing out slots with our gear. I accepted this system so I played.

You want to play dress up, but its not going to be iconic. At the same time utterly changing the dynamic the people joined in on the game with, WITHOUT even giving them a thought of being able to turn off your silly barbie dress up game.

But isn't the AF armors iconic of armors that were in the series? So dressing in all felt gear with AF in the vanity slot should be considered Iconic.

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Originally Posted by Shougun

No. In this realm (FFXIV) you can change your slots. In the example realm the other poster made you couldnt.

We are given the precedent of changing out slots with our gear. I accepted this system so I played.

You want to play dress up, but its not going to be iconic. At the same time utterly changing the dynamic the people joined in on the game with, WITHOUT even giving them a thought of being able to turn off your silly barbie dress up game.

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So you know what I am going to wear now too?

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Originally Posted by Reika

So you know what I am going to wear now too?

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I can tell the future. No lol

But I do know your never going to get a custom iconic design. Everyone has the same options and as special as you want to be since you cant create content in this game (like in real life) you will never be able to be a precious little snowflake.

Only thing that may happen with nearing iconic style is everyone will start copying the most popular designs and we all look the same.

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Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

But isn't the AF armors iconic of armors that were in the series? So dressing in all felt gear with AF in the vanity slot should be considered Iconic.

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WEARing AF gear is iconic. Pretending your felt gear is AF is illogical.

I have a tail but im pretending it is a cape. No.

Unless you are suggesting that we should always be in our AF (like in the other FF).

Like I said that is a different paradigm and many will dislike that but I could live with the "your gear can never change idea". I just will never think of my character as my character anymore.

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Originally Posted by Azurus

Hell give em a toggle whats it hurt, everybody wins at that point. You wont know whether a random person has it toggled or not so they dont have to see something they dont want to see, and you dont have to see what you dont want to see. Win/Win, Im just glad I personally don't have to look at my guy in mismatched gear. TO ME that is immersion breaking. You wouldnt see people going in to battle in mismatched gear, Armor is made in sets and I believe it adds to my immersion if my character flows, so lets all just win. No need to argue past this point...

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See, I'm against vanity system and here's a guy for it. I could care less what he sees on his screen and he rightly so could care less what i see on mine. We're both happy with the toggle, can we all be friends now?

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Originally Posted by Rubyxiii

See, I'm against vanity system and here's a guy for it. I could care less what he sees on his screen and he rightly so could care less what i see on mine. We're both happy with the toggle, can we all be friends now?

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And here i thought my "lets stop fighting over a nice middle ground solution" post went completely ignored lol

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Originally Posted by Azurus

And here i thought my "lets stop fighting over a nice middle ground solution" post went completely ignored lol

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No, I like all of them. This is for a short time a popular idea - then a couple people jumped in and said "no you must see my fashion sense".

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Originally Posted by Shougun

No, I like all of them. This is for a short time a popular idea - then a couple people jumped in and said "no you must see my fashion sense".

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I see. Ya i consider them implementing it as a victory in my book, no need to drag the people who were against it through the mud and swing to the polar end of the spectrum with it at those who were against its expense. Im just glad they are doing it at this point considering at first he wasnt going to. I think in debates like these it is more important to find a middle ground then to push a certain side and make the other accept it.

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Originally Posted by Azurus

I see. Ya i consider them implementing it as a victory in my book, no need to drag the people who were against it through the mud and swing to the polar end of the spectrum with it at those who were against its expense. Im just glad they are doing it at this point considering at first he wasnt going to. I think in debates like these it is more important to find a middle ground then to push a certain side and make the other accept it.

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I agree. I've been in support of a toggle since I read this thread. While I personally think vanity is weird - my first response to these threads was "no, oh wait look someone suggested a toggle ok Im good!".

Then I found out people want to force the whole system upon me no toggle, switch the poles as you eloquently put. Thus now I just debate with those who say no to the toggle.. :P

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Originally Posted by Azurus

And here i thought my "lets stop fighting over a nice middle ground solution" post went completely ignored lol

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The sad thing is, the only people here with an intelligent and middle ground post gets completely ignored. Look how many times my posts in here have been responded to, lol.

Its funny, when WoW came out with vanity, all I heard on forums was "Yay I get to wear my Tier 1 set again!" or "Hurrah I don't have to wear this ugly Tier 12 anymore!". Of course some here and there didn't like it, but it was positive for the most part.

I don't really like the /check argument. Since ilvl and more achievements are coming, more than likely people will be inspecting by these two aspects and you /check regardless, even if they look elite. Also I heard "Don't know if they have enough materia on.", how exactly do you see this without checking anyways? There are plenty of arguments against vanity, but this one is pretty ill thought out.

Next argument was "It ruins my immersion.". So, one guy goofing off in a reindeer suit is going to completely destroy the game for you? If something as simple as that is a deal breaker for you, then you are obviously playing the wrong genre of games. Someone (with or without vanity) is going to do something that will attempt to break your immersion with the game, they are around, and they do whatever they can to get attention in a comedic value. Vanity might not help this, but it isn't causing it either. Don't let a few goof offs ruin a ton of people's desire to actually use the system in a legit manner.

The only true counter argument I have seen so far is that vanity can cause confusion in a competitive area. I talk about PvP in particular. As I said in a previous posts, some people have used the Vanity System at their advantage by making all their toons look the exact same, all wearing Santa suits to throw off players and confuse them. While nothing illegal, it does feel like an unfair advantage. It is reason like this alone that I would welcome a toggle button.

As I also said in my previous post, while I don't care for a toggle button, I am also not against it. If we tell the opposing team that they should not let the Vanity System ruin their game play, then why can't we think the same on the toggle button? It doesn't ruin our gameplay experience either and if someone feels strongly against it, just give it to them. Like Azurus and Ruby said, it is a win-win solution and it is only a problem if you let it be.

As you can see in this topic, that went kind of from an innocent request thread to a blood battle, each side has a fair opposing argument. Unfortunately some of you here (won't list names) are doing a horrible job presenting your argument and really should read back to yourself what you are about to post very carefully.

For the opposing team, SE has listened to fans and decided to put in a vanity system in the future, no sense in crying about it now. You can however (if you feel strongly about it), make your own request thread for the toggle button. We were able to convince them to make vanity, so why can't you convince them to let you toggle it? Don't complain and moan, do something about it.

For the support team, some people have their own opinions on how to approach gear selection. One example is that they like to see progress in a character. They want their high end LS members run around town in their well-earned top notch gear. Some look at the high end gear as a sign of accomplishment and helps represent them and their groups. The people who don't like vanity are not just saying they hate it just to hate it, they know the disadvantages to the system and they know potential harm it could cause (even if it is minimal at most).

Would say more, but typing on iPad is tiring, so.....

tl;dr: Lets all agree to disagree.

http://www.beyondhollywood.com/uploa...ge-600x398.jpg

I wonder if the vanity slots will really just be client side only.

I think it might be too much stress to the servers if it had to load up two full sets of gear per player.

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Originally Posted by Velhart

The sad thing is, the only people here with an intelligent and middle ground post gets completely ignored. Look how many times my posts in here have been responded to, lol.

Its funny, when WoW came out with vanity, all I heard on forums was "Yay I get to wear my Tier 1 set again!" or "Hurrah I don't have to wear this ugly Tier 12 anymore!". Of course some here and there didn't like it, but it was positive for the most part.

I don't really like the /check argument. Since ilvl and more achievements are coming, more than likely people will be inspecting by these two aspects and you /check regardless, even if they look elite. Also I heard "Don't know if they have enough materia on.", how exactly do you see this without checking anyways? There are plenty of arguments against vanity, but this one is pretty ill thought out.

Next argument was "It ruins my immersion.". So, one guy goofing off in a reindeer suit is going to completely destroy the game for you? If something as simple as that is a deal breaker for you, then you are obviously playing the wrong genre of games. Someone (with or without vanity) is going to do something that will attempt to break your immersion with the game, they are around, and they do whatever they can to get attention in a comedic value. Vanity might not help this, but it isn't causing it either. Don't let a few goof offs ruin a ton of people's desire to actually use the system in a legit manner.

The only true counter argument I have seen so far is that vanity can cause confusion in a competitive area. I talk about PvP in particular. As I said in a previous posts, some people have used the Vanity System at their advantage by making all their toons look the exact same, all wearing Santa suits to throw off players and confuse them. While nothing illegal, it does feel like an unfair advantage. It is reason like this alone that I would welcome a toggle button.

As I also said in my previous post, while I don't care for a toggle button, I am also not against it. If we tell the opposing team that they should not let the Vanity System ruin their game play, then why can't we think the same on the toggle button? It doesn't ruin our gameplay experience either and if someone feels strongly against it, just give it to them. Like Azurus and Ruby said, it is a win-win solution and it is only a problem if you let it be.

As you can see in this topic, that went kind of from an innocent request thread to a blood battle, each side has a fair opposing argument. Unfortunately some of you here (won't list names) are doing a horrible job presenting your argument and really should read back to yourself what you are about to post very carefully.

For the opposing team, SE has listened to fans and decided to put in a vanity system in the future, no sense in crying about it now. You can however (if you feel strongly about it), make your own request thread for the toggle button. We were able to convince them to make vanity, so why can't you convince them to let you toggle it? Don't complain and moan, do something about it.

For the support team, some people have their own opinions on how to approach gear selection. One example is that they like to see progress in a character. They want their high end LS members run around town in their well-earned top notch gear. Some look at the high end gear as a sign of accomplishment and helps represent them and their groups. The people who don't like vanity are not just saying they hate it just to hate it, they know the disadvantages to the system and they know potential harm it could cause (even if it is minimal at most).

Would say more, but typing on iPad is tiring, so.....

tl;dr: Lets all agree to disagree.

http://www.beyondhollywood.com/uploa...ge-600x398.jpg

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makes sense.

people who dont like it dont have to use it. peoples arguments are the same as saying i hate crafting take it out the game cuz ill never use it, but there are other people who do. people are even crying about the grass in ARR. its amazing.

I am sooo glad to see this is coming... but please don't add stupid vanity only gear i like it the way the OP suggest the ability to put a piece in a slot that changes the look and neglects all its stats.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

If you wanna look like warrior as your whm I shouldn't have to see it, thus the toggle.

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Except that if there are class restrictions you won't be able to make the WHM look like a warrior because WHM can't equip warrior gear.

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Are people really serious in believing no one would complain if they can't do what they want with the vanity system?

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We all know someone will complain about restrictions, though this is all dependent on how far SE goes in restricting vanity slots. Blizzard, believe it or not, is REALLY stingy with their restrictions for transmogrification, and has a ton of limitations. Here:

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Originally Posted by Blizzard

• The character must be able to equip both items.

• Only uncommon (green), rare (blue) or epic (purple) items may be transmogrified. (exceptions: a select few of these items will be prevented from being used to transmogrify if they are inappropriate)

• Items must share the same armor type (examples: plate for plate, cloth for cloth)

• Weapons must be the same weapon type (exceptions: Guns, Crossbows, or Bows)

• Guns, Crossbows, and Bows can be used to transmogrify Guns, Crossbows, or Bows.

• Main hand weapons can only be used to transmogrify Main hand weapons.

• Off-hand weapons can only be used to transmogrify Off-hand weapons.

• One handed weapons can be used to transmogrify a Main hand or Off-hand weapon.

• Using an item for transmogrify makes it soulbound.

• Using an item for transmogrify makes it non-refundable.

• Using an item for transmogrify makes it non-tradable.

• Heirlooms and Account Bound items can be transmogrified.

• Heirlooms and Account Bound items can be used to transmogrify.

• Legendary items cannot be transmogrified.

• Legendary items cannot be used to transmogrify.

• Fishing Poles cannot be transmogrified.

• Fishing Poles cannot be used to transmogrify.

• Mailing an item strips its transmogrification.

• Placing an item in Void Storage strips its transmogrification.

• Vendoring an item strips its transmogrification.

• The displayed enchant will be that of the currently equipped item.

• There may be individual items that are excluded from being transmogrified on the basis that they were originally added to the game as absurdities. (examples: a weapon that looks like a fish, or a chest piece that is invisible)

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While several don't apply (the "guns to bows" bit, the stuff with void storage, heirlooms and legendaries), the first and the last one would be a very good place for SE to start with. The last one also covers the issue with seasonal gear. Admitedly, I'm iffy on that because on the WoW forums we have some who have been asking for certain gear to be allowed for transmogging (like a certain poster that wants to wear a Vile Fumigator's Mask full-time but can't because it wasn't flagged for transmog).

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Originally Posted by Duelle

Except that if there are class restrictions you won't be able to make the WHM look like a warrior because WHM can't equip warrior gear.

We all know someone will complain about restrictions, though this is all dependent on how far SE goes in restricting vanity slots. Blizzard, believe it or not, is REALLY stingy with their restrictions for transmogrification, and has a ton of limitations. Here:



While several don't apply (the "guns to bows" bit, the stuff with void storage, heirlooms and legendaries), the first and the last one would be a very good place for SE to start with. The last one also covers the issue with seasonal gear. Admitedly, I'm iffy on that because on the WoW forums we have some who have been asking for certain gear to be allowed for transmogging (like a certain poster that wants to wear a Vile Fumigator's Mask full-time but can't because it wasn't flagged for transmog).

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WoW's transmoging system is also a gil sink. Instead of merely equipping it in a different slot, you pay to have that slot changed into the look of an item you own, following those restrictions. I'll be fine with it becoming a gil sink to change a slots appearance the same way here.

People should have to wear, you know, the design that the gear came with. If you want to play dress up go to the store and buy a freaking doll.

Our characters are like dolls though :p

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Originally Posted by Gokulo

Our characters are like dolls though :p

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touché.

/10char

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Originally Posted by Gokulo

Our characters are like dolls though :p

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Don't listen to her Wu - you are a real boy!

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Originally Posted by Raldo

I don't care how people see me, I just want vanity slots so I don't have to see myself as a train wreck without sacrificing stats.

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Why vanity slots then? .dat mods are much more plausible in that case (legality, blah blah, not detectable anyway)

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Originally Posted by Shougun

You want to wear the gear you want without the repercussions. You want to force us into doing what you want, but you think its stupid that we want to be able to turn it off on JUST our side and let you continue to look the way you do.

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That's the thing, the moment you turn it off, I no longer look the way I do.

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This is a fantasy game with a strong connection to realism. That has always been SE thing. Japanese plausible reality. They create almost crazy fantasy world you can escape into because of the seeded realism. Wearing what you are not wearing is not plausible in any idea.

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An open shirt/subligar providing nearly as much armor as a chain/plate mail is not realistic in any way either, but hey, who cares about that! You're being awfully selective about your sense of realism here.

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Originally Posted by Teuciont

You mean those other people that don't want to see vanity gear in the first place?

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You don't have a right to decide how my character looks like, it's my character, not yours. Whatever I wear is none of your business. What's going to be next? A toggle to allow people to change other character names to anything they want?

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Originally Posted by Zantetsuken

So the basic idea is to disguise what you are really wearing from other players?
Unless you are ashamed of your real gear, you should have no opposition to a toggle.

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*sigh* I am not ashamed of my real gear. I am tired of a system that forces me to wear something purely for stats. Provoking me won't do you any good.

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Originally Posted by moriandrio

So the only reason against a toggle is "I don't want you see me in my real gear" so actually there is no argument against it...

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Blatantly ignoring the fact that the only reason you want to see my real gear is to see my stats, which you can still do by checking me.

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Originally Posted by moriandrio

Actually it is ppl whining about the possibility to toggle it off. Actually its not even your buisness how i choose to see the ppl. Just cause you can't hide your gear for ppl who don't want it...

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No, it's none of your business how my character looks on your screen, actually. I'm the one paying for it, not you. Or are you offering to pay for me?

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Originally Posted by Soukyuu

No, it's none of your business how my character looks on your screen, actually. I'm the one paying for it, not you. Or are you offering to pay for me?

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This would be the case if there was only one gear everyone wears, but with this stupid vanity BS, its my right to refuse to see all the stupid pumpinhead/subligar/santa setups.

As long there are not enough restrictons (eventgear/job/level) there is a need of a toggle. I just don't want my game experienced to be fucked up just cause ppl think they need to dress up like clowns cause they dont need to care about stats anymore.

And there will be a major impact in pvp too.

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Originally Posted by moriandrio

I just don't want my game experienced to be fucked up just cause ppl think they need to dress up like clowns cause they dont need to care about stats anymore.

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I am getting tired of this same argument being repeated over and over again. So tired in fact, that I'm not going to go ahead and explain why it's wrong for the xth time.

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Originally Posted by Soukyuu

I am getting tired of this same argument being repeated over and over again. So tired in fact, that I'm not going to go ahead and explain why it's wrong for the xth time.

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Cause it's not, as long we don't know about the restrictions this is a point that some ppl think about. Maybe you like to run around like a clown or don't care when you run a dungeons with ppl looking like clowns. Only thing that is tired is that ppl are against a toggle and don't have an argument other then "Cause I don't want you to get a toggle"

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Originally Posted by moriandrio

Cause it's not, as long we don't know about the restrictions this is a point that some ppl think about. Maybe you like to run around like a clown or don't care when you run a dungeons with ppl looking like clowns. Only thing that is tired is that ppl are against a toggle and don't have an argument other then "Cause I don't want you to get a toggle"

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If you don't like to run around like a clown, you should be pro-vanity, not against. My argument against the toggle stands, whether you like it or not. If you want to interpret it as me not wanting you to have a toggle out of spite, so be it.

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Originally Posted by Soukyuu

If you don't like to run around like a clown, you should be pro-vanity, not against. My argument against the toggle stands, whether you like it or not. If you want to interpret it as me not wanting you to have a toggle out of spite, so be it.

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So you don't have an argument against it (just not wanting it is no argument that counts) and you have not pointed out why it should be impossible ppl will abuse the system.

Either a toggle or very strict restriction are needed. The Reasons have been posted many times...

So, uhh, my last post....not even a nibble? lol

Should I say....typical FFXIV community?

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Originally Posted by Jinrya-Geki

I have a hard time telling brown from Red...

and blues and purples...

and dark blue sox with black sox :c

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I feel you're pain. i have the same issue with certain shades of various colors

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Originally Posted by Soukyuu

No, it's none of your business how my character looks on your screen, actually. I'm the one paying for it, not you. Or are you offering to pay for me?

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It's actually none of your business how you look on other peoples screen. None of what appears on someone elses screen is your business. You didn't pay for their computer, game, subscription, internet service. My original comment remains, you're being pretty imposing here. I still see no rational argument against a toggle.

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Originally Posted by Rubyxiii

It's actually none of your business how you look on other peoples screen.

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This. You do know if you play a female character a lot of the times you're bare ass naked on some lonely kid's screen, right? You can't control how others view you.

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I still see no rational argument against a toggle.

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You won't find one either, except for the people who are trying to force something on you but will cry to mommy SE that you're trying to force something on them.

I want a toggle for Highlanders cause they are ugly and also Male lala's i hate their faces SE can i haz please?

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Originally Posted by moriandrio

I just don't want my game experienced to be fucked up just cause ppl think they need to dress up like clowns cause they dont need to care about stats anymore.

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Why do people continue to make this argument? Do you not play the game right now? This is exactly what we currently have because people care about stats and not the other way around.

The artists are not involved with placing stats on items, does everyone understand this? Unless SE goes the way of tiered gear (and perhaps even not then) your armor will never match unless you intentionally gimp yourself. With no vanity/appearance/remodeling system you will always have to pick between looking terrible or being terrible at the game.

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Originally Posted by Gardthorne

Why do people continue to make this argument?

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Because IMMERSHUN

Ok what about an idea of like aetheric transmutation? We give crafters the ability to break down and extract the aetheric essence of armors under their jurisdiction and transplant that essence in to other pieces of similar gear. This gives reasoning and lore to vanity, keeps crafters relevant, if not increase their desirability, and makes it so that you are wearing what it says you are wearing to appease to the realism crowd.

Restrictions are passively placed due to an aetheric essence being able to only meld into similar gear. Like plate to plate for example. I feel like this is a decent way to appease everyone AND make it lore relevant while preventing the dreaded yukata tanks look