How do we feel about tank damage right now?

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Originally Posted by J-Reyno

Healers bring far too much utility to be matching and even exceeding tanks in damage contribution, who do practically nothing BUT deal damage. It's extremely unsatisfying to manage an actual dps rotation only to have a healer deal more damage than you.

https://www.fflogs.com/zone/statisti...=Any&bracket=2

Dark Knight is literally rock bottom in raid dps, which is ridiculous. There is a reason other games don't have tanks dealing less damage than healers. It's not at all balanced and this will hurt the game longterm.

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If you change it to "max" you could see how big 100% pure dps healer has over 100% dps tank this is ridiculous.

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Originally Posted by Nedkel

Because there is one big difference between pressing 3 buttons all the time and 10-13 buttons.
Also it is harder to be melee than ranged you cant just stick to the target in melee range for the entire raid and forget about aoes, even tanks cannot do that, casters have it easier, they dont have to line up their rotation with the mechanic like healers who just spam same spells without second thought.
And still healers are able to dish out more damage than tanks for some reason if they 100% on pure dps.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

It's more complex to maximize damage GCDs as a healer than as a tank.

Healers have no real way to deal with movement.

Healers by default rarely get to be "100% pure dps".

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Kabooa said it very well. Tanks do not have to choose whether they should spend GCDs on abilities that do no damage, so tanks have an easier time of it. Saying healers only have 3 buttons is ignoring the vast majority of their kits, and important decisions that have to be made.

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Originally Posted by Nedkel

If you change it to "max" you could see how big 100% pure dps healer has over 100% dps tank this is ridiculous.

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No, it's not. With mitigation and damage stances being removed, tanks get to DPS without making sacrifices (technically there's the odd ability like Clemency, but raid tanks tend to refuse to use those anyways), while also having great utility in that they don't really have cast times (and the exception, Paladin, casts quickly) and have mobility, ie gap closers. Healers have to sacrifice to do their DPS, deal with cast times, and do not get any mobility assists.

This is why, the vast majority of the time, healers don't actually outdamage tanks. Looking at parses specifically setup where one healer is solo healing is not an accurate representation.

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Originally Posted by BarretOblivion

This ^^^ plus remember, healers DPS 'rotations' are even worse than Tank rotations. Sorry, but I should not see a healer be down my neck when I am having nearly 100% uptime on a boss as a Tank.

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Statements like this are exactly why SE doesn't want players using a parser. You think that just because you are a tank you are entitled to higher dps than a healer in every single case including extreme fringe occurrences which is the only time a healer should out DPS a tank.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

Kabooa said it very well. Tanks do not have to choose whether they should spend GCDs on abilities that do no damage, so tanks have an easier time of it. Saying healers only have 3 buttons is ignoring the vast majority of their kits, and important decisions that have to be made.

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so basically, you are saying healers should be able to spend less time hitting the boss than a tank and still do equal to or more damage than a tank, sounds like BS to me.

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Originally Posted by aodhan_ofinnegain

so basically, you are saying healers should be able to spend less time hitting the boss than a tank and still do equal to or more damage than a tank, sounds like BS to me.

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No, he's saying for the two to be remotely competitive, it may be beneficial for a healer to have a slight lead over a tank in a perfect 100% uptime situation, given how much of their uptime will be wasted.

Apart from perhaps the recently overbuffed AST, tank-crushing healer parses involve virtually no healing; that's the only reason they're so ahead in any individual top-10 parse.

You'd be much better off looking at combined tank damage vs. combined healer damage, where you can more clearly see that the imbalance is nearer to some 200 dps in a perfectly healing-GCD-trimmed fight. That's enough for me to say tanks should probably have a bit more damage, but only a bit.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

No, he's saying for the two to be remotely competitive, it may be beneficial for a healer to have a slight lead over a tank in a perfect 100% uptime situation, given how much of their uptime will be wasted.

Apart from perhaps the recently overbuffed AST, tank-crushing healer parses involve virtually no healing; that's the only reason they're so ahead in any individual top-10 parse.

You'd be much better off looking at combined tank damage vs. combined healer damage, where you can more clearly see that the imbalance is nearer to some 200 dps in a perfectly healing-GCD-trimmed fight. That's enough for me to say tanks should probably have a bit more damage, but only a bit.

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Personally I think healers are too close to tanks in DPS, especially with all the oGCD options they have that limit their need for GCD heals, which narrows the gap quite a lot, but personally, I'm so used to the ratio from previous expansions, I genuinely believe tanks should be further ahead, 1, as stated, the trend that has always been there, 2, subjective but nonetheless, a lot of tanks will agree, complexity in rotation, and thirdly as mentioned more uptime in most cases.

While yes healer dps beating out tank dps is at an extreme scale, doesn't make it feel better that they have a capacity to deal more damage than tanks, which I do acknowledge is subjective thinking in most of my points.

I've never really looked at combine tank damage much admittedly, only on occasion, mostly because it doesn't as accurately show your personal contribution, but as you state it does show the imbalance more.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

Statements like this are exactly why SE doesn't want players using a parser. You think that just because you are a tank you are entitled to higher dps than a healer in every single case including extreme fringe occurrences which is the only time a healer should out DPS a tank.

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Yes, because 95% of the time or more I am DPSing, healers can't DPS all the time they just can't they have their role responsiblilities that override thier offense. Tanks we use OGCDs so we can weave those and not lose offensive GCDs all the time while healers can't necessarily do it all the time. Its simple logic.

Idk how tanks weaving defensives is different from a whm using no gcd healing and pretty much having 100% uptime. If two healers can plan all their healing and have a perfect group, I don't see why healers cant out dps tanks.
I can agree however that healing has become easier to do, right now it's probably the easiest role (except astro) in the game thanks to all the of offensive spells taken away from us. I would love if SE gave us a more complicated rotation.

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Originally Posted by Acece

Idk how tanks weaving defensives is different from a whm using no gcd healing and pretty much having 100% uptime. If two healers can plan all their healing and have a perfect group, I don't see why healers cant out dps tanks.
I can agree however that healing has become easier to do, right now it's probably the easiest role (except astro) in the game thanks to all the of offensive spells taken away from us. I would love if SE gave us a more complicated rotation.

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Because you cant do that in every fight. Simple as that. Plus, if tanks did less damage than healers... we would just be 100% reliant on building hate off of our stance instead of you know... dealing damage to make them a threat.

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Originally Posted by aodhan_ofinnegain

While yes healer dps beating out tank dps is at an extreme scale, doesn't make it feel better that they have a capacity to deal more damage than tanks, which I do acknowledge is subjective thinking in most of my points.

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I'd just advise that you consider that while healers only have as much healing uptime without cost to their damage dealing as they have oGCDs, whereas tanks have 100% uptime on an already hefty mitigation percentile (some third of all damage just off Ronkan gear's Defense stat, and another 20% off traits for a total of some 46% mitigation--given negatively-effective multiplicity--at all times).

Whereas a healer provides no indirect contribution (healing) without cost to direct contribution (damage) outside of oGCDs, a tank provides both over half its indirect contribution and all of its direct contribution at all times, to the point that if you were to directly convert damage absorbed via mitigation into the healing it's worth, a tank is already doing as much single-target "healing" as any healer, but at no contribution cost.

Are we, as tanks, seriously attacking healers over their similarly pitiful dps. Healers?

90th percentile Hades, tanks range from 6.6k-6.8k and dps are 11.5k. E4s is a similar gap of about 8.3k to 14.5k. But how dare the healer scrape a minuscule 5.6 and 7.1k.

Personally I feel a healers 5.6 on Hades is the least of the issues in the game, but I guess when your class is boring to play and hits like a wet noodle but you feel it's unrealistic to change, you turn and attack the little guy and demand nerfs to an insignificant factor instead so you can at least be superior to something.

Can we get back to feedback on actual issues like having a engaging gameplay again? Does anyone seriously feel nerfing healers peanut damage will fix tank gameplay?

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

Are we, as tanks, seriously attacking healers over their similarly pitiful dps. Healers?

90th percentile Hades, tanks range from 6.6k-6.8k and dps are 11.5k. E4s is a similar gap of about 8.3k to 14.5k. But how dare the healer scrape a minuscule 5.6 and 7.1k.

Personally I feel a healers 5.6 on Hades is the least of the issues in the game, but I guess when your class is boring to play and hits like a wet noodle but you feel it's unrealistic to change, you turn and attack the little guy and demand nerfs to an insignificant factor instead so you can at least be superior to something.

Can we get back to feedback on actual issues like having a engaging gameplay again? Does anyone seriously feel nerfing healers peanut damage will fix tank gameplay?

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That's not what we are talking about. Its called using healers as a metric to say "hey look at how weak we are to the point healers are breathing down our necks, that's how weak we are!"

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Originally Posted by BarretOblivion

That's not what we are talking about. Its called using healers as a metric to say "hey look at how weak we are to the point healers are breathing down our necks, that's how weak we are!"

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This and also i would add that healers have literal 3 buttons to press and if they press them all the time they do MORE damage than a tank with 10-13 buttons rotation... and not by small amount but about 600-800 dps! A ranged caster, 3 button rotation > 13 buttons on melee tank. :confused:
Now lets go to the DPS subforum and tell ninjas and machinist that their job should do 1-2k less daps than every other dps job despite it being the fastest by APM. xD

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Originally Posted by Nedkel

This and also i would add that healers have literal 3 buttons to press and if they press them all the time they do MORE damage than a tank with 10-13 buttons rotation...

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But again, if they "press them all the time" it means they dedicate 0 GCD to heal, which is still a big gamble, while tank's rotation is the same, regardless of what damage you mitigate.
It would be very different if tanks had some mitigation GCD.

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Originally Posted by Nedkel

This and also i would add that healers have literal 3 buttons to press and if they press them all the time they do MORE damage than a tank with 10-13 buttons rotation... and not by small amount but about 600-800 dps! A ranged caster, 3 button rotation > 13 buttons on melee tank. :confused:
Now lets go to the DPS subforum and tell ninjas and machinist that their job should do 1-2k less daps than every other dps job despite it being the fastest by APM. xD

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Sigh.... so here we go again.

It's only 3 buttons if you ignore that a healer, every GCD, has to make a decision on if they can even push that button. And if they push a non-DPS button, there are decisions to make on how to spend or build resources, which would be most efficient, and so forth.

Pressing rampart or other CDs on a tank doesn't stop the DPS. There's no "Well I can't DPS this GCD because I need to build enmity or pop rampart". That's on top of free movement and mobility abilities.

In short, there's a lot more to it than button count.

Saying "how dare healers have kind of close DPS because we have a few more buttons" is a very poor argument. Also, there are healers that like to DPS just as much as tanks like to DPS, and a major theme of this thread has been their preferences are somehow less valid because WE ARE AWESOME STRONK TANKS HOW DARE SE LET HEALERS DPS LIKE US, or something.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

But again, if they "press them all the time" it means they dedicate 0 GCD to heal, which is still a big gamble, while tank's rotation is the same, regardless on what damage you mitigate.
It would be very different if tanks had some mitigation GCD.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

[…] It's only 3 buttons if you ignore that a healer, every GCD, has to make a decision on if they can even push that button. And if they push a non-DPS button, there are decisions to make on how to spend or build resources, which would be most efficient, and so forth. […]

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You two understand that healers have healing oGCDs right? The real healing abilities we track and manage?

We aren’t making these life-or-death decisions every time we cast a DPS spell over a cure spell and vice versa. More-often-than-not, we are going for that oGCD first to heal before being forced to rely on GCD spells. If we can get away with basic shields and regens, we’re going to. The rest of the time, it is hitting that one DPS spells and keeping up the dot from that other DPS spell.

Boss fights are so scripted, that I know if I use an oGCD ability to cure/shield after a boss does an ability or tank buster, that same oGCD cure/shield ability will be ready to use when the boss is ready to use that same ability or tank buster.

Are there fights I am going to have to spend some time spamming GCD healing spells? Yes. Are they all-the-time, every-time? No.

Is it possible to almost have 100% DPS time on healer? Yes, it is. Counts on the event, how well the party handles mechanics, and kill speed.

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Originally Posted by Xtrasweettea

You two understand that healers have healing oGCDs right? The real healing abilities we track and manage?

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Of course. Now make every single heal oGCD with no cast time, and every DPS ability instant with no cast time, and we can start comparing to tanks.

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Originally Posted by Xtrasweettea

Is it possible to almost have 100% DPS time on healer? Yes, it is. Counts on the event, how well the party handles mechanics, and kill speed.

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of course it's possible. But, see, here's the thing. When people were like "OMG white mage can outdamage even some tanks!", this wasn't true even in the 99th percentile.

In order to support this, you have to look at "max damage", so basically cherry picked parses so small they don't represent even the top 1%. Meaning it's a far, far more rare than you make it out to be. In practice, not even the top 1% of healers can regularly DPS that much.

Of course, that was true when this thread was started and for most of it. Now with 5.1, AST reigns over all non-DPS jobs once more, but if SE wasn't giving AST crazy buffs this wouldn't be FF14.

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Originally Posted by Xtrasweettea

Are there fights I am going to have to spend some time spamming GCD healing spells? Yes. Are they all-the-time, every-time? No.

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But how close are you to this top healer-DPS when you have to dedicate several GCD healing ?

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Originally Posted by Xtrasweettea

Is it possible to almost have 100% DPS time on healer? Yes, it is. Counts on the event, how well the party handles mechanics, and kill speed.

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So, in a sense, your DPS is a group effort...while tank's GCD usage is solely focused on itself.

On a sidenote, if you can win an end-game content without relying at all (or close) to your healing spells (Since oGCD are abilities), it means the content has a design issue.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

On a sidenote, if you can win an end-game content without relying at all (or close) to your healing spells (Since oGCD are abilities), it means the content has a design issue.

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That, and, since they said we should focus on raid/ex content. Let's use WHM as an example. Do they really think you can heal Hades ex or any Eden savage with only assize, tetra, bene, etc? Never touching medica 2, never using an afflatus spell, never using regen?

The only time that happens is if you go in with friends with the understanding the other healer is solo healing so you can chase numbers, or if you're willing to get kicked and probably blacklisted by pugs.

Might be a bit more doable with SCH, but still a bit questionable if you think you're meaningfully contributing to healing...

Debating about amount of dedicated GCD healing for PUGs is kinda futile.. you know, because gcbtw.

In a static setting (speaking from my personal experience, of course) heal optimization will always go towards investing as little GCDs into healing as possible. And it is, in fact possible, to heal all of Eden Savage and Hades EX only by using oGCDs if the rest of the group has a good synergy and mistakes are minimal to nonexistent (which should always be the case, as this is the intended design). This obviously includes support abilities of other classes such as Mantra or Divine Veil but those are there to be used anyways, no?

So in any good run a healer does not have to spend GCDs on healing because the group funtions properly - and now he can quite easily be close to tank DPS if not overtake a sub-par tank. Which puts tanks in a "be there and get hit" kind of state of actual group usefulness. Which, of course, will tick of some tanks because they feel like their only contribution towards the end goal (aka reducing a mob's HP to 0) is being a meat shield while scratching the enemys back lightly with a fork.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

Of course. Now make every single heal oGCD with no cast time, and every DPS ability instant with no cast time, and we can start comparing to tanks.

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So… normal way most experienced healers heal in average to ideal situations?
As for the instant DPS spells, SCH and WHM have those. WHM has two oGCD DPS abilities (one of them actually heals on top of that) and their dot. SCH has Art of War, Ruin 2, and their dot. AST just has their dot.

Cool, requirements met. I can compare tanks to healers.

Oh wait, we can’t do that. Here’s the thing: as a healer I can do 0 damage and just cast a cure spell and that is me doing my advertised role.

Tanks cannot do 0 damage and perform their role. They have to, constantly, deal damage in order to stay ahead of the DPS in enmity (even with tank stance on), so they can keep “tanking the enemy”.

Tanks have to be ABC. Healer’s don’t have to.

So yeah, we can’t compare, but not because of the requirements you stated above, but because one role doesn’t require ABC to do their job, the other does.

Or maybe we can… since there is a different in effort and opportunity versus outcome. Just like what is trying to be explained within the above posts.

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Originally Posted by Risvertasashi

[…] of course it's possible. But, see, here's the thing. When people were like "OMG white mage can outdamage even some tanks!", this wasn't true even in the 99th percentile.
In order to support this, you have to look at "max damage", so basically cherry picked parses so small they don't represent even the top 1%. Meaning it's a far, far more rare than you make it out to be. In practice, not even the top 1% of healers can regularly DPS that much.

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You understand that FFLOGs doesn’t “cherry pick” the parses. The only cherry picking that happens is by the uploader.

As a portion of the population, the outlier WHMs are a portion of a portion of a population. Not the whole population. Yes, the outlier WHM population looks completely insignificant against the total population. It becomes significant when you compare that outlier to the events the oulting happened and to that population.

A percent population within a percent population is significant. It also shows that, removing all barriers, those WHMs were able to outdeal damage compared to a role that has more APM and sequential buttons to push in a specific order. Of course, in order to even allow those outlier WHMs to happen, everyone had to play their best.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

But how close are you to this top healer-DPS when you have to dedicate several GCD healing ?
So, in a sense, your DPS is a group effort...while tank's GCD usage is solely focused on itself.

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Healer DPS is group damage, technically. Healer DPS is the reward given to a group for performing well enough to allow healing downtime to occur. It’s the same concept like in older games where a healer would have time to buff a DD with a spell in order to increase that DDs damage. FFXI’s WHM casting Haste on a DD is a good example.
Every group should strive to allow as much healing downtime as possible.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

On a sidenote, if you can win an end-game content without relying at all (or close) to your healing spells (Since oGCD are abilities), it means the content has a design issue.

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Agreed

SE can fix content and make more spell heavy activities, they did it often in FFXI… before Abyssea and Voidwatch era.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

On a sidenote, if you can win an end-game content without relying at all (or close) to your healing spells (Since oGCD are abilities), it means the content has a design issue.

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In fact, no. If you can do that, you are playing the content as intended: On a high skill level with minimal to no mistakes. GCD healing abilities are there to compensate mistakes and overall bad gameplay. See it as an additional resource for emergencies (or, in a DF like scenario, a tool to carry average DPS players).

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Originally Posted by FirstnameLastname

In fact, no. If you can do that, you are playing the content as intended:

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Based on...your assumption ?

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Originally Posted by FirstnameLastname

GCD healing abilities are there to compensate mistakes and overall bad gameplay. See it as an additional resource for emergencies (or, in a DF like scenario, a tool to carry average DPS players).

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Every unavoidable damage are not result of any "mistakes" or "bad play". You shouldn't be able to cover all of those with only your oGCDs. In fact, the oGCD should be your "emergency" since they're the skills that you can cast instantly.

Not talking about unavoidable damage, obviously.

Refer to my signature for clarification.

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Originally Posted by FirstnameLastname

Not talking about unavoidable damage, obviously.

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So, I'll say it again. If you can cover all healing requirements with just your oGCD, then the content is not tuned properly.

The most basic example is that tanks should take more damage from auto-attacks than what HoT can heal, enough that you can't simply wait for your next oGCD to be available.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

So, I'll say it again. If you can cover all healing requirements with just your oGCD, then the content is not tuned properly.

The most basic example is that tanks should take more damage from auto-attacks than what HoT can heal, enough that you can't simply wait for your next oGCD to be available.

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Except all optimised groups are 20ilvls above the reccommended ilvl, thus outgearing the content. This leads to not having to cast GCD heals as often.

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Originally Posted by aodhan_ofinnegain

Except all optimised groups are 20ilvls above the reccommended ilvl, thus outgearing the content. This leads to not having to cast GCD heals as often.

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It still stands. At no point you should be able to do an Extreme/Savage content synced without GCD heals. Or, to say it differently, healers shouldn't have that much oGCD heals. Remember back in ARR where Benediction was the only oGCD heal for WHM ?

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Originally Posted by FirstnameLastname

In fact, no. If you can do that, you are playing the content as intended: On a high skill level with minimal to no mistakes. GCD healing abilities are there to compensate mistakes and overall bad gameplay. See it as an additional resource for emergencies (or, in a DF like scenario, a tool to carry average DPS players).

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What you're describing is how we exploit a poorly designed system not its intended use. It's no secret the dev team still believes we frequently GCD heal. One of the primary complaints from career healers is how little use GCD heals have nowadays, which makes the jobs all boring since the vast majority of your healing comes while you're spamming Glare/Broil/Malefic.

That isn't to say they should become our main focus again. But at this stage, they border on near non-existent. Of course, healing as a whole is far too overpowered in this game. Which is another reason the devs can't seem to figure out the role.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

It still stands. At no point you should be able to do an Extreme/Savage content synced without GCD heals. Or, to say it differently, healers shouldn't have that much oGCD heals. Remember back in ARR where Benediction was the only oGCD heal for WHM ?

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I can't say I see the problem with having strong oGCD heals to rely on. Why is it a problem SCH can heal raid wide AoEs with indom instead of succor, or that WHM can use assize instead of Medica? I wont go into a huge rant over it, because this thread is about tanks,not healers, but to put it briefly. Unless they make healing itself more interesting ie, do more than press a button and get big heal, just making healers heal more would be detrimental. Both the classes and encounters are not designed for it, and outside of a massive ARR level rework, that won't change.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

It still stands. At no point you should be able to do an Extreme/Savage content synced without GCD heals. Or, to say it differently, healers shouldn't have that much oGCD heals. Remember back in ARR where Benediction was the only oGCD heal for WHM ?

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Don't get me wrong, I do think it is silly that healers can limit the GCD healing they need to do by so much, mostly due to healers having too many oGCD options, but at the same time, it would be foolish to not take full opportunity to make use oGCD heals as much as possible to maximise dps output.

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Originally Posted by aodhan_ofinnegain

it would be foolish to not take full opportunity to make use oGCD heals as much as possible to maximise dps output.

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If the game let you, you're totally right to do so. I just to think it's too lenient in that regards. But, to be honest, I also thought that it was too lenient on how you could tank without your stance for basically whole fights before, without serious mitigation and/or enmity issue.

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

But again, if they "press them all the time" it means they dedicate 0 GCD to heal, which is still a big gamble, while tank's rotation is the same, regardless of what damage you mitigate.
It would be very different if tanks had some mitigation GCD.

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Now imagine a situation where PLD or GNB has few powerful support CDs that he could heal his entire team with to full all the time and still do damage and tank on top of that.
Would it be fair? I dont think so.
Well guess thats how tanks feel like right now when they dedicate most of their skills to deal damage but in the end they are getting surpassed by healers 1-2 skills.
What if tanks have 1-2 skills that would surpass healers healing capabilities? Both aoe and single target, healer players will be first to cry about it.

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Originally Posted by Nedkel

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Except tanks also reduce healing requirements passively. Healers cannot. There is no point at which a tank ever tanks less through dpsing. A healer must always do less damage to heal more than a few times per minute (via oGCDs).

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Originally Posted by Nedkel

What if tanks have 1-2 skills that would surpass healers healing capabilities? Both aoe and single target, healer players will be first to cry about it.

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Why are you so focused on tanks having healing capabilities ?
Do healers surpass your mitigation skills ? You remember that this is what separates tanks from other roles, right ?

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

It still stands. At no point you should be able to do an Extreme/Savage content synced without GCD heals. Or, to say it differently, healers shouldn't have that much oGCD heals. Remember back in ARR where Benediction was the only oGCD heal for WHM ?

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'Memba when SE said they wanted healers to heal more so they nuked their damage options?

I 'Memba.

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

'Memba when SE said they wanted healers to heal more so they nuked their damage options?

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It doesn't take a PhD in game design to understand that in order to make healers heal more, the solution is to make others take more damage, not changing healer damage skills.

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Originally Posted by Nedkel

What if tanks have 1-2 skills that would surpass healers healing capabilities? Both aoe and single target, healer players will be first to cry about it.

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They used to in the AoE department. Popping Berserk and Steel Cyclone spam would make you virtually unstoppable in large pulls where a healer didn't have to heal you.

Same with Dark Arts > Abyssal Drain.

SE took those away because they wanted the healers to heal more (except they really aren't)

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

SE took those away because they wanted the healers to heal more (except they really aren't)

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Well, if they healed more, they might finally truly notice how worthless their "MP-efficient" spells are outside of Nocturnal AST, how few synergies or interactions the healing toolkit has, and/or how barebone controller support is. Can't be having that.

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Originally Posted by FirstnameLastname

In fact, no. If you can do that, you are playing the content as intended: On a high skill level with minimal to no mistakes. GCD healing abilities are there to compensate mistakes and overall bad gameplay. See it as an additional resource for emergencies (or, in a DF like scenario, a tool to carry average DPS players).

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When over half of your toolkit is dedicated to things that should never happen, such that optimizing teamplay revolves around effectively removing the majority of toolkits, that's not a design issue?