But we aren’t asking to please those that are blowing through the content. This is in regards to the average raider. The people who blow through the content (like world firsts or try hards) with never be happy unless the game was flooded with raids. We don’t want a bunch more raids, enough with that nonsense. Most raiders don’t do that.Quote:
Originally Posted by ElciaDeiLinus
Lack of End Game Content
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07-22-2019, 10:00 AMLadyKairi
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07-22-2019, 12:13 PMVercinotrixWhy is it every single time I get quoted in this thread it's the same accusation?Quote:
Originally Posted by Zabuza
I don't know how many times I need to repeat myself, especially since literally the post before this I say yet again every community of FFXIV deserves more content and the devs need more of a budget and manpower to make it happen.
It's getting to the point where "Go play something else" is actually becoming the easier thing to say. Do I need to litter my posts with "IMO, in my opinion, personally" like I have to do on reddit so people don't get offended?
This thread literally spawned out of a twitch streamer/youtuber saying he isn't satisfied with the amount of end-game content (when he meant specficially raid content) and then asks his viewers if they are. People saying they're satisfied with the content and suggesting you can do something else between content drops isn't a personal attack, yet it seems most of the "hardcore" crowd that's showing up to this thread is getting offended by other people being satisfied and happy.
Yeah, sure, some people don't want more savage content because they won't do it for a myriad of reasons. Some people don't want more raid bosses because they don't enjoy them. On the flipside when others have come up with a way to entertain themselves and suggest it for you "hardcore" players to do you snap back with "THAT'S NOT ENDGAME CONTENT". People on both sides are twisting into something it hasn't been since it started on twitch. Even the guy who spawned it all twisted it immediately into something it's not because what end-game content is completely subjective from person to person as we can see throughout the entire thread.
Now that people have been yelling and arguing for 50+ pages we've gotten to the point that people are just turning spiteful on one another. -
07-22-2019, 12:40 PMZabuzaI am glad the casuals are satisfied and happy. Why can't casuals want the raid crowd to be happy? You yourself just said 'some people don't want more raid bosses because they don't enjoy them.' If they don't enjoy them, then they don't have to do them? That means they also have no reason to interfere with people who do want there to be more raid bosses. If I am cool with casuals being happy, why can't they support raiders being happy? You don't see me telling SE not to create glamour and mini-game stuff just because I don't enjoy it. I could care less. I just won't do it because I don't want to. Just like they don't have to touch raids if they don't want to.Quote:
Originally Posted by Vercinotrix
It's nice that you have suggested alternate ways for us to try to have fun with what exists, but we have stated that challenging content is what we enjoy. Glamour, housing, achievements, collectables, this stuff is not challenging nor fun for me. I guess that's what really gets me, because not wanting content created just because it's not something you would do, even when you already have your own stuff to do, is pretty selfish to me, and does it make it seem like some people want to spite raiders(I'm speaking in general not targeting this at you directly.) -
07-22-2019, 12:55 PMVercinotrixHonestly? I can't answer that. I have my assumptions. Spite and revenge from a bad experience doing it? Are they just in a bad mood, jimmies rustled? I really can't say for certainty. What I can say, is who honestly cares what they think? People aren't gonna support things they view as taking away from them first and foremost, secondly expecting a player-base that wouldn't enjoy the content be supportive of those who do is near asinine. We live in a selfish world, no sense acting like we don't. Appealing to other players won't get you more of the content you love, at least not immediately. Hell look at the support male viera and female hrothgar get, and that's still a "No until it won't take away time to develop other content".Quote:
Originally Posted by Zabuza
Hope one of the youtubers or streamers who raid for their primary game-play ask for more of it, it seems that's all companies care about anymore is epic "content creators" or twitch streamers and bend over backward to accommodate them. They even get interviews. (albeit mostly softball or fluff questions lmao)
On the flipside, saying casuals as a whole (or implying it) don't want you to have content you enjoy is disingenuous. Sure there are gonna be some people that don't, but again them saying they're satisfied and suggesting alternatives to you isn't the same as "dont add more raid bosses or more savage raids". And yeah, the salt mined from this thread will make it more prevalent. Extremes cause extremes, or so is my belief. You're never going to come up with an idea that has nothing but support for it. Even something as simple as "hey leave tank stance on the player when they level sync" was met with "lmao no". -
07-22-2019, 12:59 PMJojokomokoI agree with you, most of the people on my friend list who have been asking for more challenging content has simply left and never return even when ShB launch. It's like a graveyard at this point.Quote:
Originally Posted by Zabuza
It is obvious that the discussion on this is finished, each side of the player base simply disagrees with one another. We should just go on our separate ways. -
07-22-2019, 01:14 PMHyrist
I'm going to be as blunt as possible.
If you're playing the game solely for endgame content - your choice is valid - and your own. But in my opinion, you are doing it wrong.
However, if you insist on playing sorely for endgame, please know that this game, is designed intentionally not to monopolize your time. You can complete what you need in most run situations with skill and the spending of a couple hours a day.
This needs to be stressed, because we are six years into the Reboot and people still do not understand this fact:
This. Is. By. Design.
Yoshida has come out, on multiple occasions, stating that he does not like having a game that monopolizes the entirety of one's gaming hobby, and that it's healthy to diversify. If it is your intent to have endgame be your sole focus in gaming - I advise picking up another (either a second, or a separate) MMORPG, or find something else to do in your free time once your weekly content jump is complete. There's nothing wrong with that. (It's actually healthier for your life in most cases.)
In spite of the Yoshida's philosophy, there is plenty enough in the game to have this become someone's sole hobby when you expand beyond the ilvl grind. However, those who are here from World of Warcraft or some other heavy endgame MMOs will find themselves in culture shock. This is simply not that kind of MMO.
Please understand this. Concessions have been made for hardcore endgamers in the form of Savage Mode and Ultimate battles (I suggest tackling the latter if you have not already). To go further than this point creates more content that will be denied enjoyment from the majority of the playerbase - and may pull development time off of other matters.
In my opinion, development time should be now focused on refining further the approach, so that job balance is more on part during release - rather than just immediately throw a large amount of endgame content at a job system that just went through a large shakeup. This timed release schedule was a boon in that factor if nothing else.
I'm fine with having 'the lack of endgame content' be a standing critique of the game. Because it grows each patch, there is lots and lots of other content to do in this game - and it promotes healthy play. It's served FFXIV well these past six years and I hope it continues to develop along this vein. -
07-22-2019, 01:43 PMMonteCristo
Whats the point in hitting 80 then?
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07-22-2019, 02:17 PMRareItemsAmaro Mount lol.Quote:
Originally Posted by MonteCristo
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07-22-2019, 02:19 PMIbkeeThe heart of the matter is, you're bored of the formula.Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyKairi
The people complaining here likely did the same during Stormblood. Precious little has changed to the point where we can accurately predict almost the entirety of the content release schedule right up until 6.0. That is FFXIV.
It's hard to find legitimate arguments other than throwing the toys out of the pram with "you have stuff to do, why can't we have more stuff to do?" or looking down on "casuals" for enjoying the game as it is. The very nature of this debate is trying to change not just what the game is, but what it aspires to be.
We've all been there. I want more this, I'd love more that. Every game ultimately is flawed in some way. Instead of trying to paper over the cracks, FFXIV plays to it's strengths then encourages the player to seek other experiences elsewhere. It's not, contrary to popular belief, a one stop MMORPG shop, and that's fine.
We all want more, but at some point you have to just let Final Fantasy be Final Fantasy. It's not going to change direction. There'll be Savage in a week and by mid-October there'll be a 24 man and Ultimate. Fast forward two years and it'll be a similar story. Yoshi P actively calls on players to take breaks between patches, do other stuff, play other games. It's not by fault, it's by design. That's the formula that holds the game together and, for me, it's predictability is it's strength and has carried it from one success to another. -
07-22-2019, 03:37 PMDercetoThere's a reason queues die off after 3-4 weeks. The answer, is no.Quote:
Originally Posted by Avraym
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07-22-2019, 03:58 PMZanarkand-RonsoTo do more Content?.....Quote:
Originally Posted by MonteCristo
To Continue the Story of MSQ?....
To have the Ability to Grind Tomestones to Grind Endgame Gear?
To do the Current Raid?...
To be ready for later content that gets released over the course of 2 years?
To be able to do The High Ranking Hunts?...
I mean...I just named 6 reasons. -
07-22-2019, 04:12 PMCookiesNCreams
Solution: Cater to both casual and hardcore players
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07-22-2019, 04:47 PMNiyuka
Well, to normal players with a modicum of skill and ambition, the game simply doesnt offer much content. I hope Savage is going to keep us entertained for a while. I did everything so far with random PF groups. Each EX primal takes 1-2 evenings, which is fine because they are entry level. The new raid was one evening. The MSQ took me a week, watching every cutscene, not playing all the time. I am REALLY not hardcore.
Housing is closed to normal players who havent been idling in the game for months or got lucky, alongside the attached stuff like Airships and such. I would love to play around and spend time and crafting effort with Housing, but alas, I am not allowed.
PvP is fun but perpetually closed down, not really supported much, and the queues take forever.
Chocobo Racing is pretty much dead.
Lords of Verminion is dead.
Triple Triad never really took off as a player vs player thing, and to be fair ,was never meant to be content in that sense. And its years old.
So, even to somebody who does not JUST want to raid, the game is extremely limited in content. I have more to do in WoW, better PvP (and thats saying something), more PvE, and the stuff that FFXIV has that WoW doesnt are locked down because I didnt sub for over a year to keep a house that others have like 10+ of.
SE needs to get their stuff in order, or they ll just proceed to bleed subs now that the content is almost done. I can only imagine how bleak it must look for somebody who isnt really good enough for Savage Content. They are basically done now till autumn. -
07-22-2019, 04:54 PMserosSame, I leveled all my combat jobs up to 70 in SB and I'm still finding new content to do.Quote:
Originally Posted by NessaWyvern
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07-22-2019, 05:33 PMCoatlPlayer retention has never been 14's strong suit.Your profile says you joined 2013, so I'm sure you already know that Just like any other expansion, people will unsub as the eventual content drought comes. They may or may not come back, but that doesn't really matter to SE.Quote:
Originally Posted by Niyuka
Doesn't help a lot of the content is dead due to no incentive or bugs (see PVP).This problem is exasperated when trying to find things to do with friends who don't want to grind levels for the billionth time, but also aren't confident enough to go into savage. There's just not a lot of middle ground content to keep us at bay between the patch cycles.
Things like aquapolis is a step in the right direction, and so was Eureka. I hope we get more of that sooner than later. -
07-22-2019, 06:38 PMHyrist
You guys seem to want to knock the formula, but both total users and concurrent players keeps rising each cycle. Obviously they're doing something right - if their success with this game keeps growing.
This idea of "keeps bleeding out players" falls flat on its face every time it's being brought up, in face of the facts. Truth of the matter is this game is a financial wellspring for the company, and the financial reports only show further and further growth.
All other conversation on this is padding or just plain false - and not worth the time regurgitating six year old conversations for. SE will add what then can when they can and they've done an excellent job of things in spite of continual criticism here on the boards.
Think it's time I go back to lapsing out of viewing these kind of threads. -
07-22-2019, 07:55 PMNomuno
I wouldn't mind a 5th or 6th raid boss (instead of 4) say every other raid cycle. Since everquest I've always loved raiding so more of that would not bother me one bit. Aside from that, I like the pace of XIV's content (sometimes the patches can be very dull) but I do on occasion feel like "I wish there was more".
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07-22-2019, 08:15 PMReinha
7 extreme trials
2 ultimate bosses
12 raid bosses
12 bosses in 24 man raids
Combining all the above we easily have as many end game bosses as three WoW raid tiers. I'm happy with this. -
07-22-2019, 09:56 PMXieldrasMore like 2 Ultimates and 12 Raids. EX and 24 man are very easily beatable so I wouldn't consider it endgame content per se.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reinha
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07-22-2019, 10:40 PMValderen
Tons of people who enjoy different things all asking for more of what they want from a team with limited resources being blind to the fact that any request, for any extra content comes at the cost of less content for someone else.
Limited resources means someone loses somewhere if SE makes more of 1 specific type of content.
SE has a formula, and they seem to be sticking to it because it has been doing well for them.
The issue is that they are in a new position since FF14 with Shadowbringer is at the best it's been, while WoW it's main competitor is struggling with a poorly received expansion. That means a lot of new players who enjoy a slightly different play style than FF14 has provided over the years. They need to figure out if and how to keep these players interested, while also keeping the players who supported for years happy. I wouldn't want to be in their shoes.
ESO is having similar issues too. Not as much though because the game is fundamentally very different, so the expectation there is less that the game should be more like WoW than here.
It'll be interesting to see how SE reacts. Hopefully with the increase success, it means more resources, and more content for everyone. :) -
07-22-2019, 10:41 PMRiardon
Ran out of things to do?
Just open up the achievement list and despair.
The problem is that you don't like the things you left out or you have too much free time available.
Obviously they do something correctly because XIV is on a stable rise for years now.
My advise is take a break from this game or try to do the things you left out. -
07-22-2019, 10:54 PMMonteCristoQuote:
Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso
These are all "endgame content" that i was able to fully complete in 48 hours after hitting 80. Finished all 4 raids with pugs in one day....i work a full time job and have 2 young children and im a single father......u just solidified my point -
07-22-2019, 11:24 PMAvraymExactly. Play any other MMORPG with an expansion. I challenge you to accomplish that in that same amount of short time.Quote:
Originally Posted by MonteCristo
Theres plenty to do in the game - just not a lot of end game - as you have justified. -
07-22-2019, 11:29 PMNarielJust not a lot of hard challenging fights*Quote:
Originally Posted by Avraym
Like it or not, aknowledge it or not. But every single lv 80 activity you do once you hit lv 80 is end-game content. Once you hit the level cap you're out of the leveling process and have reach the end-border of the game. Wich is quite a large spectrum of activity. -
07-22-2019, 11:42 PMAvraymTheres actually not a lot of level 80 activities. The ones we have are quite generous with the rewards and often share the same rewards as one another, making the limited level 80 content further limited.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nariel
Hunts, Extremes, Raids and Level 80 Dungeons/Expert Roulette all share the same tome reward and guaranteed totems means one can very quickly get what they need (save for mount farming). Most people simply won't farm content they don't need.
Not what I or many others would call a spectrum of activity. -
07-22-2019, 11:51 PMNarielYeah, its not even a month Shadowbringer is out, what did you expect ? We are in 5.01.Quote:
Originally Posted by Avraym
5.01 FIVE POINT ZERO ONE The expansion is 20 DAYS old. Give it a break.
Savage raid aren't even available, neither is the new limited currency because we are still in 5.01
"But there is not enough endgame in this new expension that didn't get its full content released yet"
https://www.meme-arsenal.com/memes/2...49707b4b30.jpg -
07-23-2019, 12:00 AMLadyKairiYour point? This has been going on for years. Content is the same difficulty at the same rate. We don’t need to have this expansion’s raid content to come out to know how this is going to go when it’s been the same stuff the last two expansions.Quote:
Originally Posted by Nariel
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07-23-2019, 12:02 AMInsertcoinsThe REAL question is did you and others clear EVERYTHING like Ultimate and all savs? Cause if you didn't why are you complaining about lack of endgame when you didn't even do the endgame thats here? Noone has answered that. And yes that question is important cause if not then why are people complaining?Quote:
Originally Posted by LadyKairi
I'm just wondering not attacking. But if you or anyone has an answer to that I'd love to read it. Cause alot of the times the people complaining about lack of endgame never even done anything past a 24 man. I can't remember the name but before this thread there was some male au ra making the same complaints.. come to find out he hasn't even unlock the 24 mans. So this is why I bring this up. Cause if people haven't even unlock THAT then yes... their complaints are BS and don't need to be listened too. -
07-23-2019, 12:09 AMAvraymA) Because theres no end game reward thats relevant (unless you're a transmorg hunter, but even then).Quote:
Originally Posted by Insertcoins
B) Finding a full group to clear Ultimate this many years later is next to impossible. -
07-23-2019, 12:11 AMAvraym"But there is not enough endgame in this new expension that didn't get its full content released yet"Quote:
Originally Posted by Nariel
Yes because we need to wait til next week til 5.05 to know exactly what we're getting.
Everyone knows what we're getting and thats the whole gripe. Its not a lot. Its the exact same amount of lot of people were displeased with in previous expansions, despite the fact the sub player base has grown.
Why do casual players like yourself need to resort to sending these condescending photos and silly retorts.
It does nothing but make that part of the community look bad. -
07-23-2019, 12:14 AMInsertcoins:/ That right there is making me do that face. How can you say there's no endgame and you haven't done it? Those aren't good answers. You can make a discord and find people for Ultimate, many people have and do everyday. Literally you're askign for more endgame and yet you aren't doing ultimate? I don't want to be an ass but seriously how is anyone posed to take that? That's like saying - I HAVE NO FOOD- and you see 10 cans of soup , bread and chicken.Quote:
Originally Posted by Avraym
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07-23-2019, 12:14 AMNarielA) Its a challenge, the point of a challenge is to be overcome, you don't get nothing relevant out of nothing in a video game, its not real.Quote:
Originally Posted by Avraym
B) Yeah, its quite a niche activity very few people actualy want to do, so why adding more will suddenly make it all better ? -
07-23-2019, 12:22 AMIbkee
In the least surprising development this thread, the guy complaining about not having enough endgame content to do hasn't actually done all the endgame content yet.
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07-23-2019, 12:28 AMAvraymI unsubbed when Ultimate content was released. Finding a group to do it now - is next to impossible. Especially since I'm an Australian, I have to share a server with non english speaking players for optimal ping.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ibkee
Most people simple do not not want to do level 70/60 content at 80 - and I don't blame them. If the content was soloable - i'd do it in a heartbeat.
I'm complaining about current end game content. Not unsynced content for yesteryear.
Besides, theres plenty of other end game content they could add that isn't Ultimate. More Extremes, more savages or god forbid something new.
What's the real least surprising development in this thread is the bitterness and sarcasm we've all come to expect from the casual gamers who are somehow offended at the notion of balancing the casual to end game ratio a little more after all these years. -
07-23-2019, 12:29 AMEli85This is a very disingenuous way to look at it.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reinha
The 24-player raid bosses—even on week 1—are so laughably easy that it would be the WoW equivalent of only having bosses on LFR difficulty. You can make the same case for extreme trials, but on the WoW equivalent of normal difficulty. The true end game (in XIV) for players with functioning brain cells are the two ultimate bosses and twelve savage raid bosses. That's fourteen bosses in a two year period. Several games—not just WoW—beat XIV handily in less than a year in that regard.
You very much should not be happy with this. S-E can do much, much better with end game content. -
07-23-2019, 12:37 AMInsertcoinsBut should they seeing as once again the people complaining haven't even done the laughably easy endgame content. Why should SE listen to people not doing the content? Does that make sense?Quote:
Originally Posted by Eli85
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07-23-2019, 12:49 AMEli85It's not a simple binary. I'll only speak for myself, but I've done 4/5 boss tiers in the past, and it just feels so hollow and unrewarding. Which is why I will not be diving into XIV's end game, because not enough is being produced to justify my time investment. Now, as an example, if the 24-player raid series became an 8-player series with normal and savage difficulties, resulting in 4-5 hard bosses every three months, that would be enough. The most simple expression to explain this is: build it and they will come. S-E has done a very poor job of building end game.Quote:
Originally Posted by Insertcoins
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07-23-2019, 12:52 AMAvraymOr even Savage 4 Player Content.Quote:
Originally Posted by Eli85
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07-23-2019, 01:03 AMIbkeeSo, uh, yes, you haven't done all the endgame content then. Glad we cleared that up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Avraym
Your patronising way of moaning about "casuals", aka those who disagree with you, is bordering on the obsessive. That nagging worry that someone, somewhere might be enjoying themselves.
This game is as it is, a majority who play recognize that and deem it worthy of their money and effort. There are, however, those for whom there isn't enough of what they specifically want and, to quote Yoshi P, they are encouraged to unsub, take a break, play and do other things etc. But then I guess Yoshi P is just a "casual", after all. -
07-23-2019, 01:11 AMLadyKairiI have cleared, farmed and helped people clear through all level 50-70 end game content, minus Ultimate, plus whatever level 80 content we have now. Ultimate has been something I’ve been progging when I can when RL permits. I used to try and prog seriously, but then I’ve had a series of traumatic events happen and trying to get my mental and physical health under control became my priority. As well as spending more time with my family. And now that my static is back together and I’m getting into a better place mentally, they want to do current content since savage comes out soon as well as the current ultimate they’re going to release, so unfortunately I’m SoL for the time being.Quote:
Originally Posted by Insertcoins
Besides the fact I don’t think I’m good enough for ultimate. I’ve tried for a while but either prog comes to a wall or the “top dogs” don’t want me with them because I’m not an orange parse. Savage is more my pace and more achievable. That group tend to not be so cut throat.