How to Dragoon per Second: A DPS Paradigm

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Originally Posted by CookieMonsta

A better way to deal with Prey instead of running away is to activate Keen Flurry and Blood Bath. You will alleviate the healer stress a LOT. Unless you thought Prey impact was an AoE.

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Originally Posted by JackFross

It does 0 splash damage.

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I just woke up, me after reading this:
☐ Not REKT ☐ REKT ☐ Tyrannosaurus REKT ☑ REKTgoon
I took for granted it did splash. Well, there I have my 300+ that was missing XD

I wish dragoon had some kind of buff/stack management like monk lmao. Also, are they ever going to fix that awful animation lock on jump? I dont lag or anything but, you can get 'rektgoon' in some situations. Like very fucking hard.

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Originally Posted by Ninjah2r

I wish dragoon had some kind of buff/stack management like monk lmao. Also, are they ever going to fix that awful animation lock on jump? I dont lag or anything but, you can get 'rektgoon' in some situations. Like very fucking hard.

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Learn the fight and when to pop your Jumps.

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Originally Posted by Sekundessounet

Learn the fight and when to pop your Jumps.

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so far its the only thing to do lmfao, but se still needs to fix that damn animation lock. It's stupid as hell, same goes for lb.

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Originally Posted by Ninjah2r

so far its the only thing to do lmfao, but se still needs to fix that damn animation lock. It's stupid as hell, same goes for lb.

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I honestly like the lock. Gives a sense of strategy to the class. It isn't that annoying imo.

I don't see why the animation lock is an issue. It doesn't hinder anything, and injects an element of strategy and forethought into an otherwise pretty straightforward class.

The part I hate is the positional tracking. The fact you can use Jump on a Gear/Piston across the puddle and take a tick of Dropsy despite landing on an enemy in a safe zone and standing in a safe zone yourself is nonsense.

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

One concern, though, the second B4B usually comes off CD around a 4th/Phelb, at least for me, delaying one GCD in the opener would push it to not catch that phleb, so it would be better to hold it until VT..

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I never responded to this. Gonna put it under a cut since I ramble a lot...

Delaying the first B4B to just before Disembowel makes the second one come back just after Phlebotomize. There's no real reason to *not* use it right then for the True Thrust. It's obviously optimal to hold it and trade that TT for a Phleb, sure, but that would further delay the *next* one, too. Either way, this B4B being pushed back (even if you *don't* hold it for the Phlebotomize, which I honestly would not) will be a net gain in potency.

You trade Phlebotomize (410 potency) for a 4th hit (290 potency) which is a net loss of 120. In addition to this, though, your fourth Jump comes up just after the Chaos Thrust that this B4B catches. If you use it before Phlebotomize, you won't have Jump under B4B. If you use it *after*, you will. Jump is 260 potency (counting BotD), which means that, overall, you're *gaining* net potency under B4B, since 290+260 > 410. And that 410 is even weaker than the 550, since we're really comparing

1.3x(550x1.15x1.1) v 1.3x(170x1.15x1.1 + 240x1.15)
or, simplified
904.475 v 638.365

for a net gain of 266.11 potency. That compounds with the additional 2 potency gain from the first b4b. I'd have to extrapolate to a full rotation to see if it's overall a dps gain to keep it 1 gcd removed from the original placement in a parse of infinite length, but that gain of potency from 1 and 2 gives it a lot of leeway to be worse for the next few.

***Disclaimer***
My Jump usage in my rotation is as follows:
1. PS>Jump wrapped around first 4th hit.
2. Jump between VT>FT on my second FT combo.
3. PS>Jump wrapped around the 4th Heavy Thrust.
4. Jump after the second B4B CT.


****Bigger Disclaimer****
I haven't tested this yet, but using this method can drastically improve a Faust parse, too, since you could hold your second Power Surge to use it on the 4th Jump under B4B instead of using it on the third Jump, since you only get 4 Jumps in the fight. Think about the calculations above, only sub in 680 (since I know you probably don't wanna do the math, it's 1118.26).

To make it more clear, here's your total Jump Potency if you use B4B before ID in Faust:
1.3x1.15x1.1x(390) + 1.15*1.1x(390+2x260) = 1792.505

And here it is if you use B4B before Dis in Faust:
1.3x1.15x1.1x(2x390) + 1.15x1.1x(2x260) = 1940.51

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Originally Posted by JackFross

The part I hate is the positional tracking. The fact you can use Jump on a Gear/Piston across the puddle and take a tick of Dropsy despite landing on an enemy in a safe zone and standing in a safe zone yourself is nonsense.

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This so much, we basicaly sprint at double the speedwith an animation of jumping. Also, would like to jump out of combat. Like the jump ninjas get, but dragoon version. Jumping up high for no apparent reason should be a thing on the field XD

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Originally Posted by Ninjah2r

I wish dragoon had some kind of buff/stack management like monk lmao. Also, are they ever going to fix that awful animation lock on jump? I dont lag or anything but, you can get 'rektgoon' in some situations. Like very fucking hard.

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NEVER FORGET ORIGINAL ANIMATION LOCK o7

It seems too soon to be telling folk about how it used to be you couldn't do anything on the rebound, you had to wait for the whooooole jump to finish. And there was no hope, none at all, if you went through a magic AoE!

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Originally Posted by JackFross

The part I hate is the positional tracking. The fact you can use Jump on a Gear/Piston across the puddle and take a tick of Dropsy despite landing on an enemy in a safe zone and standing in a safe zone yourself is nonsense.

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I starting hating that in t10 with the charge puddles x.x

Thanks for the in-depth B4B explanation :) I am still kinda curious though, in like a4s when you have multiple breaks and downtime, I don't recall getting more than 2 B4Bs on one leg at a time (I might've, it was a long night x.x), so in a situation where it's mainly burst phases is it still better to hold B4B for an extra gcd?

Not in all cases. It depends on the placement and how you're stacking it with other oCDs.

For example, running 670+ SS, you can set it up so you delay the 2nd application of BFB by 1 GCD (So before PH), but ensure that the BFB is used half way through your GCD and ensure you have buffed DoTs on both leg and straff doll. By doing this, and ensuring you've hit all of your jumps 100% of the time, you can set it up so you can land Jump just before the BFB ends, without delaying the PS + Jump before it.

There's other things you should be doing on A4S. If you're on Leg 4 for example and want to pad a lot of DPS, you could delay BFB by a few GCDs so you can get x2 BFB buffed GKs on triple targets. Leg + Staff + Add next to leg.

What you don't want to do, is hold BFB for multiple GCDs like what most people were doing in A3S progression for the Hand of Pain Split, and the Healer Snatcher.

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Originally Posted by MiniTyra

There's other things you should be doing on A4S. If you're on Leg 4 for example and want to pad a lot of DPS, you could delay BFB by a few GCDs so you can get x2 BFB buffed GKs on triple targets. Leg + Staff + Add next to leg.

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Yea, I think one of the war was bragging about double or triple decimate'ing the leg + dolls over there xD. It was my first time in so I was just trying to stay alive and do half decent dps mainly lol. Seemed like each leg started with all buffs up, 3rd leg/final phase with Litany. Details are a bit blurry but I know I mainly just opened with burst, jumped on west add when it spawned, fed and went back to dps, if B4B was up I probably popped it unless the leg was close to dying.

But in general, just trying to get a feel for, it seems like if it's just a opening burst phase a la thex, a3s, a4s legs it's probably better to stick with usual burst opener since the benefits of delaying B4B don't really shine until after a couple mins. (that's what it sounds like?)

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Originally Posted by Erys

This so much, we basicaly sprint at double the speedwith an animation of jumping. Also, would like to jump out of combat. Like the jump ninjas get, but dragoon version. Jumping up high for no apparent reason should be a thing on the field XD

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Any sort of jump or movement skill all do the same thing. They count you as "Sliding" across the ground, rather than actually jumping over obstacles. So you go right through puddles and floor effects with any of them sadly. Aetherial Manipulate, Spineshatter, Dragonfire, Shukichi, Plunge. I don't think Jump is included, I could be wrong, since you end up at your starting position so its almost like you never left it, despite the animation having you fly toward and on top of the enemy.

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Originally Posted by Nyghtmarerobu

Any sort of jump or movement skill all do the same thing. They count you as "Sliding" across the ground, rather than actually jumping over obstacles. So you go right through puddles and floor effects with any of them sadly. Aetherial Manipulate, Spineshatter, Dragonfire, Shukichi, Plunge. I don't think Jump is included, I could be wrong, since you end up at your starting position so its almost like you never left it, despite the animation having you fly toward and on top of the enemy.

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Jump does the same, you can see your target circle moving from A to B to A. If it only had that effect, double the strat.

S-sorry for rambling;;; I do that a lot.


My rotation of B4B in A4S is 1 on each Legs 1-3, and I think 2 on leg 4? Then my next one is on the Manipulator after Rev. With my current raid dps, I *could* get a second B4B on Leg 2 and not waste any of it, but some of those hits would be on the Manipulator, and I'd rather hold it to start Leg 3 with CT>Ph leg >CT Jagd doll. I also could get a second at the bitter end of Leg 3, but I'd lose some to Mortal Rev, and I wouldn't be able to open Leg 4 with the same that I open Leg 3 with.

My group only kills the third Straf Doll, and I never even hit it once. I pull off, feed my doll, and then I'm back to full uptime on the leg, with B4B being used on both dolls, I'm pretty sure, I'd have to dig through logs. I have my whole Legs 1-4 rotation down pat now, I just can't for the life of me remember if I use B4B halfway through Jagd Doll 1 or 2 for some reason.

//EDIT: Second B4B comes up during doll 2 on leg 4. My first one I hold for Disembowel because once or twice, it's fallen off before my Jagd Doll CT when I pop it a gcd sooner or something? I honestly can't remember my reasoning for why I delay it a GCD there and trade the 180 ID for a 100 HT, especially because that makes my *next* B4B come up after I hit Phleb on the second doll rather than right before it. x:


That said, it's important to note the delay between the start of Leg 1 and Leg 2 and useful to note that the opener of IR>BL | BotD>B4B | Pot or BL | IR>B4B | BotD IS technically more potency than doing it the other way. If you *really* wanna pad dps on leg 1, you can even just skip Phlebotomize entirely and get 4 double gsks in the first 60s of the fight. I don't personally bother with it, since it DOES decrease my single-target dps on the leg I wanna hit. If positioning allows it (it doesn't in my group), the same can be done for legs 2 and 3, as well, I think. I just don't think it's conducive to clearing, so I wouldn't recommend dicking around like that until your group has it on farm. It might also be valuable to do that rotation on Leg 3 or 4 if you didn't get any Quarantines and you can't count on Goad/Paeon/Muscle, to improve TP efficiency.

But, in general, delaying B4B or not absolutely depends on whether delaying 1 gcd will pick up extra ogcd attacks like Jump, SSD, or DFD that you wouldn't get otherwise.

I do think it's interesting to consider shifting dps skills around by a gcd or two when you know you'll get exactly the same amount of them regardless when you use it (within that window), since the *only* reason it's optimal to use everything on-cooldown is to maximize how many times we can use a given skill in the duration of a fight.


Oh and to quantify all of this with numbers... Using an X-Potion of Strength HQ on leg 3 after adds, with 0 Quarantines, I end Leg 3 at ~1400 dps and Leg 4 ends at ~1340-1350 dps with me handling the Jagd Dolls that spawn next to the leg we're on. I use Thordan spear, Eso head/chest/belt/legs/wrist/ring, Gordian hands/feet/neck/ears/ring with Flint Caviar. Party comp DRG/NIN/BRD/BLM/WAR/DRK/WHM/SCH

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Originally Posted by JackFross

That said, it's important to note the delay between the start of Leg 1 and Leg 2 and useful to note that the opener of IR>BL | BotD>B4B | Pot or BL | IR>B4B | BotD IS technically more potency than doing it the other way.

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But less raid DPS as there's a chance you might not get your Bard to hit the Battle Litany.It's more Raid DPS delaying the BL by 1 GCD, to allow your bard to have 17+10+10+15 = 52% CRT, which translate into a 6 Potency gain in the opening leg for your Bard, than you being selfish for less than a 2 potency gain. Bards and Dragoons, according to Arisue Neetsha, pull the same damage values at the same baseline of stats, just the bard has a lower rotational potency. So if you're pushing raid DPS, absolutely, delaying the BL by a GCD is a lot better.

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Originally Posted by JackFross

S-sorry for rambling;;; I do that a lot.


Oh and to quantify all of this with numbers... Using an X-Potion of Strength HQ on leg 3 after adds, with 0 Quarantines, I end Leg 3 at ~1400 dps and Leg 4 ends at ~1340-1350 dps with me handling the Jagd Dolls that spawn next to the leg we're on. I use Thordan spear, Eso head/chest/belt/legs/wrist/ring, Gordian hands/feet/neck/ears/ring with Flint Caviar. Party comp DRG/NIN/BRD/BLM/WAR/DRK/WHM/SCH

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If your Groups DPS is high and you're using a potion in the opening leg, your potion will be up on the 3rd leg in the final 10% of HP, not after the Staff Doll blow. There's no point using it on leg 3 if this is the case. It's a lot better to hold it for Leg 4 so you can do a BFB + IR + POT opener. You'll still get your potion ready again for Manipulator, if I remember correctly, some time after the first set of Dolls.

I personally no longer do the Jagd Dolls and my Group, well... We're in an awkward situation where our tank is getting screwed by Mortal Revolution in the first Quarantine. So, I hold my Potion until the 2nd Leg. This allows me to push my 2nd potion at leg 4 where you have the final Staff Doll, so I can do Potion IR + BFB + x2 GK on Staff + Leg + Tank Jagd. It pads the DPS insanely high. The 3rd potion is used in the final 15% of Manipulator.

I also use uh... 674 SS in A4S.

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Originally Posted by MiniTyra

But less raid DPS as there's a chance you might not get your Bard to hit the Battle Litany.

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If your bard misses Battle Litany used between HT and ID, he's in the wrong spot. It's not my fault your Bard doesn't position properly to get the buff; mine does. It's also not YOUR fault the Bard misses the buff. There's openers they can use to be in proper position for me to use Battle Litany in an optimal position for myself without worrying about the BARD being out of range. I told everyone when and where I'm using it every pull. We even had a discussion about it when the BLM was curious about why he was missing it sometimes. He adjusted position on the pull and never misses it anymore. So, with that sort of communication, if they miss it, it's not my fault, especially because we start on the Right Hindleg and I run straight at the side of the leg and stop there to use HT>BL>ID>IR>B4B> before shifting to where I need to be to avoid the first Hydro (and get a 2x gsk).

Of note: the opener and rotation my bard uses while getting Battle Litany with me using it at the end of the gcd after HT has him sitting at 1400+ at the end of Leg 1 without quarantine or potion and using the thordan bow.

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Originally Posted by MiniTyra

If your Groups DPS is high and you're using a potion in the opening leg, your potion will be up on the 3rd leg in the final 10% of HP, not after the Staff Doll blow.

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We don't pot the first leg, since we already kill it super fast. We pot leg 3 because why not, more or less. Potting leg 2 would require waiting until after the first quarantine, which makes it dicey, though theoretically I could also hold B4B and IR for then and they'd still both be back for Leg 3 anyway. If I were to be smart and use my potion at the start of Leg 3 in my opener there (which I honestly just usually forget to do), It would probably end up being back in time for me to get 2 more in the rest of the fight. You get 3 pots in the fight, since it's at worst a 13 minute fight. Using them as they come up is only ~9 minutes of cooldown time you need to worry about, and you will *never* see a 4th potion (since #4 comes at 13:30 which is 30s after enrage killed you). Delaying your first by ~3:15 will still let you see three potions in the fight if your dps is average or above average like my group's is, so it really makes no difference. 3:15 > 7:45 > 12:15 - 45s to spare.

I couldn't find you on fflogs, so I can't corroborate how insanely that boosts your dps over the numbers I'm currently pulling, and I'm an insane stickler for statistics, primarily because I'm a nerd with a bachelors in Math. :B

I'm currently ~40 dps behind the best Dragoon with my party comp through leg 3, with him not doing adds and having a 210 weapon, more than likely. I fall off further on leg 4 because my dps there is anything but optimized, and he again doesn't do adds whereas I do. He also uses pots in a more optimized manner since I still do it dumb by having it not overlap with any other buffs on Leg 3. I mostly wish there was some way to organize the A4S dragoon parses by "people who do adds" and "people who don't" to be honest, so I can see if my dropoff is actually normal or I'm fucking something up royally (which I don't deny is wholly possible).

//EDIT: I did find another Dragoon who does adds - highest ranking one my party comp (just listed as 0 MCH/0 AST/1 NIN/1 DRG), and they're at ~1386 after leg 4, so I have some work to do.


I apologize if any of this comes across confrontational; none of it is intended as such.

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Originally Posted by JackFross

I'm an insane stickler for statistics, primarily because I'm a nerd with a bachelors in Math. :B

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That makes.. So much sense xD

And.. I'm gonna take a guess that this is it..

Also, you guys talking about GK hitting 2 legs at the same time? Do they not heal up after one goes down like normal mode? Or is it just padding dps that doesn't matter? lol

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

And.. I'm gonna take a guess that this is it..

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TEHEHE

You want to get Top 50 on FFlogs? You pad, even if it's useless padding. It's why I don't care about FFlogs. It's just e-peen for show. Anyone could pad all my GKs on all the legs and really push DPS a lot higher on A4S, but I see no reason for it.

You guys have a list of changes you'd like to see for drg? if so what are they?

Yeah, I'm not exactly fond of the extra cheesing of shooting Geirskoguls at stuff you're not killing for the sake of the parse. I do it if it's readily accessible, but I'm not gonna risk wiping to pad my dps by a tiny bit more.

And the only changes I'd want to see to dragoon is making Jumps actually aerial attacks that can:
1. change your elevation
2. jump *over* ground aoes

That's basically it. I love the class as it is currently and can't really think of anything I'd want changed aside from obviously broken changes like BL being 120s rather than 180...

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Originally Posted by JackFross

And the only changes I'd want to see to dragoon is making Jumps actually aerial attacks that can:
1. change your elevation
2. jump *over* ground aoes

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I'd like a Geirskogul buff as well, like Power Surge for jumps.

And I forgot to come here to tell you all but we cleared A1S. ¿My glorious dps? 1082 or something like that. I died after the adds before the 3rd jump (yup, they jumped trice), because my laser was cornered and both Oppressor aimed at me... Same party config (pld, war, sch, whm, drg, drg, blm, smn), the only thing that changed is me having food, shitty food from the msq XD
Another "bad" thing that happened was OT killing one of the first alarum on the flank of Oppresor. The flank opposite to the flank covered in resin. I asked him not to, twice. So no positionals for me and the other goon, except Chaos and Wheeling Thrust. And we all know Wheeling won't proc in this situation because that's not favorable to RNGesus getting his offerings XD
Faust was 1632 for me, I was top. I was content with that number.

PS: still not proud

Hello, I have an A3S question about cooldowns, specifically cooldowns in phase 2. Right now I'm popping blood for blood twice during that phase even though that pretty much means I can't use it while the hands are together (or at least not much). Am I correct in assuming this is more dps overall than saving blood for blood for the moment I can dps the hands together but only being able to use it once in that phase or not?

edit: similarly, what's the best use for battle litany? checking logs I see some people using it on the add phase (as it comes back up then) but some save it to start phase 4 with

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Originally Posted by Ash_Smokespear

Hello, I have an A3S question about cooldowns, specifically cooldowns in phase 2. Right now I'm popping blood for blood twice during that phase even though that pretty much means I can't use it while the hands are together (or at least not much). Am I correct in assuming this is more dps overall than saving blood for blood for the moment I can dps the hands together but only being able to use it once in that phase or not?

edit: similarly, what's the best use for battle litany? checking logs I see some people using it on the add phase (as it comes back up then) but some save it to start phase 4 with

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It's hard for me to exactly say how it's best for you to use it, but I'm assuming you end P1 with a Disembowel and start P3 with Chaos Thrust? If this is the case, I delay my BFB for a few GCD (2 if I remember correctly), so it is used before Phlebotomize, I also do not use GK at all during the single hand phase (which may or may not be the best course of action). Using BFB like this gives me approximately 5 seconds of BFB left after the second wash-away, at which point I elusive Jump + GK both hands. This is now a 200*1.3*2 Potency skill. You should also be using an Impulse Drive right before the second wash away, so you have a Disembowel up for the hand which you attack (I personally switch to a newer hand).

The 2nd BFB is up again right after hand of pain, so just blow all of your GKs on double hands and there's absolutely no point using a Phlebotomize at this point (I need to math it out). If your group is baiting the hands (Hand Clap to Bro Fist), you can finish P2 with 1.5k -> 1.6k very easily.

As for Litany, I've experimented with it quite a lot. I personally save it and use it when I have my potion and everything else, which I use after Ferrofluids on P3. I still can't decide what's better...

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Originally Posted by JackFross

Yeah, I'm not exactly fond of the extra cheesing of shooting Geirskoguls at stuff you're not killing for the sake of the parse. I do it if it's readily accessible, but I'm not gonna risk wiping to pad my dps by a tiny bit more.

And the only changes I'd want to see to dragoon is making Jumps actually aerial attacks that can:
1. change your elevation
2. jump *over* ground aoes

That's basically it. I love the class as it is currently and can't really think of anything I'd want changed aside from obviously broken changes like BL being 120s rather than 180...

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Bolded. Too OP.

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Originally Posted by MiniTyra

A3S stuff

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Cool, this was quite helpful thanks! Yes I end P1 with disembowel. I like the idea of popping a geirskogul on the hands when they split, so far I've been using one geirskogul on the 'single hand' part, then holding the rest for the two hands. I also switch to a different hand after hopping back on the second wash away as I think/hope having dots ticking on both is better than going ham on the same one I was already hitting before.

Should I be able to pop more than one GK on both hands during the second b4b? I'll have to practise a bit more in that case, think our tanks are usually pulling them apart again by the time it comes up again.

Well. If your Group is baiting the hands, the hands should be together for an additional 4-5 GCDs, which means yes, you should be able to fit in another GK + BFB on hand split.

Our group doesn't bait the hands, so it's a bit of luck for me :P If I don't get a Hand Clap after the DPS Check, I can't fit an x2 GK and it'll be a single one instead... But I'm thinking of skipping Phlebotomize all together during that phase. Especially with me rocking 691 SS on A3S now, I should comfortably get x4 GKs.

@Jack, I want the same as you lmao. jump over aoes ezpz. and also reduce the damn BL cd XD

A3S stuffs.

Battle Litany is kinda flexible. You'll get 4 shots in the course of an 11-12 minute fight. If your group kills it in 10 or less, you'll have less flexibility, because you absolutely DO wanna get 4 casts of BL. Using it on cooldown, you end up using 1 on pull, 1 for adds, 1 for the first hand, and 1 around the second hand, but a phase or two before it. I usually will hold that last BL for the second hand, since no real reason not to. The important thing to note is that, with a shortened fight duration, if you're only gonna get 2 BLs in the final phase *anyway* you might as well pop one for adds.

Phase 2 re:Geirskogul and B4B - I like to use my B4B as soon as it comes up and get 1 gsk under that initial shot. I can usually get 6 gsk in phase 2, with a total of 10 hits between them all (1 on initial hand, 4 on double, 1 after hop split). All counted together, it's 4 under B4B, 6 without. I worry that holding your first gsk for such a long time in p2 is gonna drastically cut down on how many you get in the phase and overall lower your dps, since the hands split around 45 seconds into the phase, which is already a significant portion of your BotD that you're throwing away because you wanna wait for double hands.

Isn't it also a little risky/not that good an idea to delay B4B like that and then lose a gcd of B4B to the wash away as well as lose however many gcds you delayed at the end of the phase, as well? My B4B wears off just before second wash and comes back just at the end of HoP, allowing for a B4B DFD+gsk on the double hands almost every time.

The ideal situation is to have an AST who feeds you a spear just as p2 starts, obviously. :P


AND YES. So OP. That's why I want it. ;-;

So as a drg that lb's the third leg do I pop my cds after or during dolls?

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Originally Posted by JackFross

A3S stuffs.

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Thanks, nice to get multiple opinions here. We haven't cleared A3S yet, only last week saw the 'whole' fight (technically not the whole fight since we didn't see the enrage but we were at the second rotation of the last part with the bubbles moving about) so I guess I have some leeway in when to pop BL. I'll have to experiment in phase 2 a bit to see what works best for me with regards to B4B and GK. I'm usually ending that phase around 1.3k dps on average, not using potions as of yet until we meet the enrage.

After the add phase, should I pop everything during that first cascade with the risk that ferrofluid kills several seconds of my uptime?

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Originally Posted by Gaiussenpai

So as a drg that lb's the third leg do I pop my cds after or during dolls?

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Depends. Are you doing Adds or not?

New lancer here and soon to be Dragoon..

I've always tanked in MMO's but feel the need to get involved with the damage dishing side of things :D

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Originally Posted by Ash_Smokespear

After the add phase, should I pop everything during that first cascade with the risk that ferrofluid kills several seconds of my uptime?

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After add phase, all I have up is Jump+SSD (sometimes), DFD (I save this for after Ferro), and BotD. I use IR+B4B near the end of add phase (usually on the final Piston wave; I'll burn mine down then SSD to whichever tank is having trouble to finish that one off). Others will pop it after the last Ferro in adds phase goes out, so you will definitely get your 9 gcds and such.

Either way, it won't be back until after Ferro, so there shouldn't be a dilemma as to when to use it.

There's a small contingent of people who don't like to use B4B during adds, but there's no reason not to. You'll get +1 bonus B4B in the fight that people who DON'T use it there won't necessarily get. Plus, you can get double/triple gsk hits under that b4b if the positioning is friendly!

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Originally Posted by JackFross

There's a small contingent of people who don't like to use B4B during adds, but there's no reason not to. You'll get +1 bonus B4B in the fight that people who DON'T use it there won't necessarily get. Plus, you can get double/triple gsk hits under that b4b if the positioning is friendly!

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Yep that's kind of what I was worried about, using it in a phase that doesn't necessarily benefit from faster execution. I guess I won't worry about that any more then :)

It's definitely useful to note:
http://www.fflogs.com/reports/compar...22340,10112832

I trimmed Hak's kill to Dervy's kill length to showcase the disparity in B4B and BL timers. So, regardless how effective or ineffective those buffs are during adds phase, they're MORE beneficial than no buff at all, right? And you'll still get the same amount of casts in the following phase, regardless, so there's really no reason to hold them, imo.

More visual comparison of B4B
You just need to turn each of them on on the graph to see the little boxes that show buff times.

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Originally Posted by MiniTyra

Depends. Are you doing Adds or not?

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Yeah I'm doing adds and lb.

Living Liquid, off the top of my head is, what? 4.3m HP? Add Phase rips off 8% of his HP. The entire phase from the first set of Pistons until Living Liquid is targettable again lasts 92.5 seconds.


4300000 * 8% = 344000 Damage.

This is a timed phase. No matter how many buffs you use, no matter how many crits you get (you may get lucky), it's still, always, 344000 damage in 92.5 seconds which the raid must execute. Even if you complete the entire phase in 95 seconds, that's 7 seconds of you not doing anything, waiting for Living Liquid to spawn and that's 7 seconds being added to your eDPS. Yeah, maybe you can hit higher numbers and kill the adds faster and maybe your damage in proportion to everyone else in the raid is higher, as you're "eating" damage they could of inflicted, but it seems like such a waste.

Also, remember that most buffs are multiplicative. So if you have a Trick Attack, a Blood for Blood and a Potion, (Drac-Pot in raid is a 1.0945 multiplier), instead of receiving a combined raid buff of 1.1 + 1.3 + 1.0945 (1.4945) separately, using them all together yields 1.1 * 1.3 * 1.0945 = 1.565135 multiplier instead, It just so happens that directly after the add Phase, you get every single one of your buffs ready and available. Coupled with an IR and a BL, you're essentially redoing your opener. You could even delay your opener, using BotD on the cascade and generating more BOTD Timer, then using all the buffs on the ferrofluid, allowing you to get x2 BFB + POT + IR + BL GKs, if timed correctly.

Maybe it's because I'm coming from a progression mindset... Having all buffs being used together, multiplicatively, along with synchronised BLs + Fey w/e it's called just seems... Better?. That's my mindset of buff usage at least.

Hey guys :D

Wich is the BiS Solver you are using? I remember Dervy posting one of his own, or Sunny's, I can't remember. I tried Ariyala today for some calc, but it seems to fail sometimes as I could reach a better score with same "configurations" by my self.

Hello guys! I've been gone for a few months, i'll be coming back to do the next raid tier, going get the dust off.

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Originally Posted by Hakmatic

Hello guys! I've been gone for a few months, i'll be coming back to do the next raid tier, going get the dust off.

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wb
Lots of people have taken a break amidst the content drought. I can't wait to get things going full steam again too.