Cash shop confirmed

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Originally Posted by Seoulstar

There is nothing in it that will give anyone a huge advantage.

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If we all knew for 100% certainty that it would stay this way forever then I don't think there would be as much gripe for it. Time and time again though in history of cash shops it shows, the more it works, the more they focus the game around it. Despite earlier claims that they would 'never make it pay to win' very few actually stick to that promise. How strongly of a pay to win varies with each game of course, but even a little is a very bitter taste.

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Originally Posted by KirakunAUS

Don't like cash shop. Don't submit and buy. Let the wallet do the talking.

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The problem is this doesn't work because we're already giving them money to make these items with our sub... even if no one were to buy them, they'd just sit at the cash shop accumulating virtual dust, it's not like SE would lose anything. They have no reason to get rid of the cash shop and put them in the game even if it turned out to be a total bust, because they win either way, they just win a little more if people buy them.

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There is nothing in it that will give anyone a huge advantage.

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It depends on your definition of advantage. Role players who buy vanity items are at an advantage, people who love to do contests have more outfits to pick from... not everything is about stats. And this is assuming they won't be tradeable/sellable, I'm not sure if they've specified it.

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Originally Posted by Seoulstar

I swear people are over reacting to this and blowing it way out of proportion. No one is forcing you to use the cash shop. There is nothing in it that will give anyone a huge advantage. I find it absolutely illogical that people actually think this is making the game pay 2 win..do you know what that even is? Play PWI or Vindictus. THAT is pay to win. People need to seriously calm down and just settle with this..if you dont like it..don't use it. No one is forcing you to.

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This is not about P2W.
This is not about "just not buying it"
This is about content which would have had an avenue to being obtained in game being removed and sold in the cash shop, like the Odin mount.

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Originally Posted by Yshnal

What will really happen:

Dev: "Hey Yoshida, we've these two new designs to go with patch 2.x. I think that this one is really cool, though!"

Yoshi-P: "Alright, put that one in the cash shop to get people to buy it, and the ugly one for free in the game."

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Because that happened with WoW, right?

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Originally Posted by saeedaisspecial

This is not about P2W.
This is not about "just not buying it"
This is about content which would have had an avenue to being obtained in game being removed and sold in the cash shop, like the Odin mount.

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IF IT OFFENDS YOU SO MUCH, LET YOUR SUB LAPSE

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Originally Posted by Shneibel

I find it funny that ppl are fine with pay for fantasia but voice against minion & mount !?

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This - People were BEGGING SE to add Fantasias and will PAY FOR IT. Mogstation is already a cash-shop as it already sold cash-shop like items. So it's a successful social experiment that as long as you don't call it a cash shop, people are fine with.

I see what you did there, SE.

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Originally Posted by Kiara1

I think this might kill the game for me.

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Serious question: Why didn't the selling of Fantasias kill the game for you? Or the selling of additional retainers which is far more game changing than a mount that does nothing special or minions that add nothing to the game?

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Originally Posted by Moqi

The problem is this doesn't work because we're already giving them money to make these items with our sub... even if no one were to buy them, they'd just sit at the cash shop accumulating virtual dust, it's not like SE would lose anything. They have no reason to get rid of the cash shop and put them in the game even if it turned out to be a total bust, because they win either way, they just win a little more if people buy them.


It depends on your definition of advantage. Role players who buy vanity items are at an advantage, people who love to do contests have more outfits to pick from... not everything is about stats. And this is assuming they won't be tradeable/sellable, I'm not sure if they've specified it.

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I don't see the problem. Let it collect virtual dust.
This is not some pokemon game where you need to collect them all and be a master pokemon trainer.

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Originally Posted by saeedaisspecial

This is not about P2W.
This is not about "just not buying it"
This is about content which would have had an avenue to being obtained in game being removed and sold in the cash shop, like the Odin mount.

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Sorry. Was this written in stone that this can be obtained in game.

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Originally Posted by KirakunAUS

I don't see the problem. Let it collect virtual dust.

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You said "let the wallet do the talking", but there's no talking to be had. "Don't like it, don't buy it" doesn't send any kind of message becuase we're funding this wether we buy them or not.

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Originally Posted by Seoulstar

I swear people are over reacting to this and blowing it way out of proportion. No one is forcing you to use the cash shop. There is nothing in it that will give anyone a huge advantage. I find it absolutely illogical that people actually think this is making the game pay 2 win..do you know what that even is? Play PWI or Vindictus. THAT is pay to win. People need to seriously calm down and just settle with this..if you dont like it..don't use it. No one is forcing you to.

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Its not P2W...now....

But anyone who thinks it wont go that way once SE sees just how much cash they can rake in on cosmetics alone is a fool.

And thus it beggins....I've seen this "vanity only" cash shop in far to many games...Aion, SWTOR, Tera, Rift, etc.

Spoiler alert: it never ended well...they kept putting more and more stuff in the cash shop, eventually gameplay affecting items ("it's not P2W, it's just a commodity item.....might as well get ready for that excuse), people got mad, people left....games went F2P to survive.

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Originally Posted by saeedaisspecial

This is not about P2W.
This is not about "just not buying it"
This is about content which would have had an avenue to being obtained in game being removed and sold in the cash shop, like the Odin mount.

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From what I'm seeing, it just looks like people are thinking this game is becoming "P2W". Maybe they will add it to the game at a later date. Who knows, to be honest..no one does. People just need to seriously calm down. Literally anything that is even slightly upsetting here people are going like they have a gun to their heads and are being forced to do completely optional things..and to Erudain, how about we wait and see before we jump on the "they're going to become money hungry" bandwagon.

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Originally Posted by Erudain

And thus it beggins....I've seen this "vanity only" cash shop in far to many games...Aion, SWTOR, Tera, Rift, etc.

Spoiler alert: it never ended well...they kept putting more and more stuff in the cash shop, eventually gameplay affecting items ("it's not P2W, it's just a commodity item.....might as well get ready for that excuse), people got mad, people left....games went F2P to survive.

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I dont know about SWTOR and RFIT, but as a player who had played Aion & Tera, I can tell you it is not the reason ppl left those 2 game

i can see this being problematic for many, as i am also a raider who loves fashions on the side and collecting all that i can. my cute fcmate is a bit sad about the minions as she collects them.. obviously it would be better to ~NOT~ have to pay real life money for such things that could have been provided in game. we often wish that there is more variety, and i think it is disheartening that this " more " is possible, but might find itself locked up in the cash shop concept.

i don't know. i'm not against vanity in cash shop, but i think it's nice being able to play and enjoy these simple things without having to pull out my wallet. :s

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Originally Posted by Shneibel

I dont know about SWTOR and RFIT, but as a player who had played Aion & Tera, I can tell you it is not the reason ppl left those 2 game

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No, of course it wasn't the only reason ppl left, it was "another reason" ppl left (like in my case with Aion).

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Originally Posted by Moqi

You said "let the wallet do the talking", but there's no talking to be had. "Don't like it, don't buy it" doesn't send any kind of message becuase we're funding this wether we buy them or not.

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My point stands.
If you don't like how this is being manage. Stop subbing. Let the wallet do the talking.

Why do I say that? Yes, we are funding them. There is no way we can confirm the cost spent on.
If content keeps getting delayed or decrease or even the quality of content deteriorates...
Cash items such as minions and mount however, keeps on increasing, I would be pissed cause that shows funds are being misused.

I would clearly unsub this game myself.

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Originally Posted by Gogi

i don't know. i'm not against vanity in cash shop, but i think it's nice being able to play and enjoy these simple things without having to pull out my wallet. :s

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Exactly why there's no problem here. Your sub, per EULA and ToS says it grants you the ability to simply log into the game, nothing more and nothing less and SE can even decide to delete your existence if they so chose. So you pay a sub, you can access the game and do your thing all you want without having to shell out extra cash. And despite what some want people to believe, no MMO to date has locked content behind a paywall that wasn't a freemium modem or P2W model. Even F2P MMOs don't lock progressive content behind paywalls and they're notorious for money grabbing.

Here's my thoughts: (Might have to edit for space)

World of Warcraft messed up big time. Their cash shop started off selling stat boosts, xp boosts, and now sell instant level up to cap. It turned from a pay to play, to pay to win with a subscription. I don't want that to ever happen in FFXIV: ARR. I came to ARR because it was a perfect replacement to the mess that is WoW.

This cash shop, will only sell vanity items. Mounts, Minions, and cosmetic only clothing. I'm fine with this. When WoW's cash shop went in game, it immediately threw stat boost and xp boost potions into it. So as long as this cash shop never does that, I will be fine with it.

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Originally Posted by Tupsi

Serious question: Why didn't the selling of Fantasias kill the game for you? Or the selling of additional retainers which is far more game changing than a mount that does nothing special or minions that add nothing to the game?

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Fantasias aren't content. Neither are world transfers. These are account changes, which make sense to charge for as they require extra work on SEs part. Mounts, minions, goofy hats, that's content. Content that's been designed, developed, and implemented then gated behind a cash shop and available for those who have more money to spend than others. Sorry but, ubiquitous or not, its a fucked up system.

(On a side note, the retainer thing is actually a good example of P2W-lite already happening. With each retainer you get a huge boost in inventory, an extra Venture and another hand in the Market Board. These are all pretty big advantages, especially if your a savvy crafter)

I think the bigwigs at SE seem to misinterpret what the sales for Fantasia indicate. Things like character and name changers are great items for a "cash shop". But having an actual cash shop for game content seems a little much.

They should sell the content linked to external purchases and chances that are more difficult or expensive to acquire. - IE - soundtrack minion, art book minion, fan event moogle costum, ect. More so the latter, since it's unobtainable for most while the former is a way to coax buyers.

None the less, the term "cash shop" alone lowers the prestige of the game DRASTICALLY.

Oh and just to add to the pile: Cash Shop for anything in-game is just plain tacky. FF usually has a lot of class but this is just lame at best, insidious at worst.

Tera didn't go P2W until after they went F2P. Most times you see a vanity only cash shop going into P2W is after a P2P game goes F2P. Otherwise most cash shops are already slightly P2W and just get horrendously worse; see any korean f2p like maplestory.

So until they drop the sub I wouldn't worry about it here. They'd also have to get dynamic stats or implement buff pots that last longer than 15 seconds for it to actually allow p2w to exist and we'll see that coming in advance.

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Originally Posted by Sho86

Cash Shop - nickle and diming you for small pieces of the game that should of been included with set price of expansion or included based off sub fees alone if the next chapter wasn't ready yet.

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Yup. Can't help but feel sceptical...

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Originally Posted by Akubikumo

Fantasias aren't content.

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Neither are mounts and minions, technically. My game progression doesn't come to a halt by not having a specific mount or minion - The only content that utilizes Mounts are beast tribe quests, which provides them to you free of charge for the quest(s) they're needed in. If Mounts and minions are considered content, fantasias are too as they're also an in-game item and not simply an account service.

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which make sense to charge for as they require extra work on SEs part

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Actually, transfers are automated unless something happens on the backend that requires a tech to do it manually - heck everything is actually automated unless something goes wrong. When you get down to it, them doing vet rewards is no different from cash shop, with the cash shop you can get it whenever you want rather than paying $20-$80+, which is far more expensive.

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Originally Posted by KirakunAUS

If you don't like how this is being manage. Stop subbing. Let the wallet do the talking.

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I am. I have still around 3 months left that I have already paid for and then I'm gone. But I love this game and I'm sad to leave, these forums are feedback to the devs and this is mine. I've got nothing else to say.

I would be curious to know what the japan's players community think about this.

To my little point of view, I couldn't care less about vanity shop to be honest, no one will force me to buy vanity things if I don't want to... But it still put serious questions about the future of this "extra".

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Originally Posted by Alberel

All of these items were developed using our subscription fee. We have already paid the money to develop them. How is it OK for us to be asked to pay an extra fee for them?

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this ^ is the real and very key question of a vanity cash shop in a P2P game, is it acceptable? And how many people/devs it will lock out from real ingame contents works? Will they be able to never cross the line and fall into pay to win cash shop?...
As an huge FF-fanboy, I'm feeling very disturbed by such weird decisions and hope to count on Square Enix wisdom.

Oh Square. When I pay a monthly feel, I should be paying for the whole game. You want a cash shop, fine, but please just choose one model or the other.

This is just greedy.

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Originally Posted by Moqi

I am. I have still around 3 months left that I have already paid for and then I'm gone. But I love this game and I'm sad to leave, these forums are feedback to the devs and this is mine. I've got nothing else to say.

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Your not alone, I ran from SWTOR for similar implementation. I think I might hold on a little bit longer to see how this turns out in this case.

Soon enough, I expect to see in game advertisements for the shop and that will be my breaking point personally.

I'm ok with a cash shop. As long as it's not P2W I don't have a problem. You want to spend 5 bucks on a minion? Go for it. If you have the extra cash to spend on in game items then do so if it will make you happen, no one is forcing you to buy vanity items.

Well I see. Since the housing disappointment I don't have any motivation to join the game again.
If this really is confirmed, it does not make anything better.

For a moment I was thinking SE is on a good track since years. But if they keep the direction I see many people leaving the game.
(Sry for bad english)

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Originally Posted by Codek

Your not alone, I ran from SWTOR for similar implementation. I think I might hold on a little bit longer to see how this turns out in this case.

Soon enough, I expect to see in game advertisements for the shop and that will be my breaking point personally.

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The only time they've advertised anything is on their launcher. They don't advertise within the game itself, with stuff like: "Go to mogstation.com to buy X." That's because for them it would a big lore no-no.

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Originally Posted by Mardel

The only time they've advertised anything is on their launcher. They don't advertise within the game itself, with stuff like: "Go to mogstation.com to buy X." That's because for them it would a big lore no-no.

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You would think, but Marketing would see a huge gain for wanting to implement the shop into the game client itself and avoid the hassle of having people go to a website. Once the the shop is embedded within the client, it becomes really easy to add in indicators that can easily direct you towards making purchases.

It's very much inside the scope of what a company will do for extra income.

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Originally Posted by Mardel

The only time they've advertised anything is on their launcher. They don't advertise within the game itself, with stuff like: "Go to mogstation.com to buy X." That's because for them it would a big lore no-no.

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FFXIV loves to shove interfaces infront of the player and break immersion... lore be damned. One glaring example is the Duty Finder. Why can't I walk into the dungeon? I literally can't enter it unless I both a) Use the system, b) meet it's requirements (player count, job setup, etc).

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Originally Posted by Moqi

I am. I have still around 3 months left that I have already paid for and then I'm gone. But I love this game and I'm sad to leave, these forums are feedback to the devs and this is mine. I've got nothing else to say.

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I really don't understand what the issue is.

The cash shop is for vanity purposes only containing past event rewards, some new minions and a mount.

From a quick lodestone search, I can see you don't have the windup minions from the soundtracks. Did you go premium for the moogle suit? will you be purchasing the art book or delivery moogle for the minion at all?

You also don't have the coeurl mount either.

You have none of these things that have never impacted your gaming experience, and cost money to obtain by purchasing additional items or collectors edition BUT as soon as they create a cash shop for people to purchase mounts and minions from, you decide you are going to leave?

Why?! How does it differ?

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Originally Posted by TheMunimai

Why?! How does it differ?

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Originally Posted by Sho86

Cash shop opens a huge can of worms that can be a constantly changing hellride based on how they see fit.
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My main problem is what cash shop openings always lead too. They start small, then grow, and grow, and grow. "Vanity" can be a very loosely used term and expand to a ton of content
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It's anyone's guess as to how large it'll grow and how much they milk it, but I don't believe any company - SE or otherwise - when they throw promises out. Housing could be an easy example of promises.

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We really need to condense our threads here lol

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Originally Posted by Sho86

We really need to condense our threads here lol

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My apologies :D

I can see your point about how a cash shop can grow and how promises could potentially be broken.

My previous post was more of a "your leaving because of the current idea of the cash shop" - if it evolves into something else then by all means leave, but why cross that bridge now? Why worry about "what ifs?"

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Originally Posted by Magis

FFXIV loves to shove interfaces infront of the player and break immersion... lore be damned. One glaring example is the Duty Finder. Why can't I walk into the dungeon? I literally can't enter it unless I both a) Use the system, b) meet it's requirements (player count, job setup, etc).

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That's completely different.
In fact they kind of have to do it that way, to streamline the process. Who wants to walk to the dungeon and wait there the entire time until you "randomly find another adventurer to enter with." Just imagine having to wait in 1hr for lowbie roulette stuck there waiting in the dungeon. Want to craft? Nope waiting to enter dungeon!

It is also for SEVER purposes; they have to separate zones for loading purposes and so that people from multiple servers can enter a dungeon located on a "DF server". They tried having things like this in FF14 1.0 and it was very... laggy.
If you are going to come up with a counter arguement... at least make a good one.

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Originally Posted by TheMunimai

My apologies :D

I can see your point about how a cash shop can grow and how promises could potentially be broken.

My previous post was more of a "your leaving because of the current idea of the cash shop" - if it evolves into something else then by all means leave, but why cross that bridge now? Why worry about "what ifs?"

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It would be an attempt to stop the problem before it has the chance to spread (and usually don't bother to remove it, instead pile more onto it, to make it seem 'better'). Speaking with the wallet as they say. Once you hit the iceberg, that ship is gonna sink. In Titanic terms, we're increasing speed right now even with the iceberg warning in our hand.

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Originally Posted by Sho86

It would be an attempt to stop the problem before it has the chance to spread (and usually don't bother to remove it, instead pile more onto it, to make it seem 'better'). Speaking with the wallet as they say. Once you hit the iceberg, that ship is gonna sink. In Titanic terms, we're increasing speed right now even with the iceberg warning in our hand.

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Again - I can understand peoples concerns regarding that.

But come on? So they expand the cash shop and include some vanity sets, some hair styles, maybe namingway cards.

But I highly doubt they would ever put races, classes/jobs, dungeons, trials, side stories etc into the cash shop.

I still have no clue why people who claim they love the game would ditch because of optional vanity. Maybe it's just the way I see it - Unless it directly effects the game (dungeons trials etc) I really don't see the issue.

I think that's the main point....not that they release old events vanity but the fact that I've seen this "it's vanity only, it's okay" cash shop in far to many games...

And it never NEVER stays that way...after they got the taste of ppl who bought from the cash shop, they started putting more and more stuff in the cash shop only, new mounts/pets/costumes were added to the shop directly,.... and after a while they eventually added gameplay affecting items, like free ports or increased drop rates/exp rates... then the excuse became is "it's not P2W, it's just a commodity item".....it's a spiral downwards if you take this road.

So get ready to look back at this "it's vanity only" when they add shop stuff each month, while getting in-game vanity only every once in a while....or when ppl buys costume/mounts/pets in the cash shop and then sells them for millions gils in game...which is essencially just legalizing RMT....

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You have none of these things that have never impacted your gaming experience, and cost money to obtain by purchasing additional items or collectors edition BUT as soon as they create a cash shop for people to purchase mounts and minions from, you decide you are going to leave?

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But you don't purchase the items, you buy the soundtrack, plushie, whatever, and the code is just a bonus. Those things (with the exeption of the CE) are outside the game, they have a value and a cost of their own. (For example I bought the FFX remaster and there was a code for the Yuna outfit for LR inside. It wasn't something made to be sold, the FFX remaster would've had the same price with or without the code, it was just an extra). And, probably even more importanty, they're a one time deal. The shop is a different thing because it has no purpose other than keeping content from players who already pay a sub and is being updated and developed with that. I know that my entire sub does not go into FFXIV, but until now the part that did go into keeping this game alive would all come back to me. I was paying 100 and getting 100 back. Now I'll always get 90 and the other 10 is available at the shop.

I hope it makes sense, I don't know how else to explain it. If this were a free to play game I would have no issues with it, but I am paying in advance for content to be developed and I am not having it delivered to me. It's like going to a shop, asking for something, putting down a payment, and when it finally arrives, I have to buy it again.

Btw like i said I have more than 3 months left, I'll probably be still here for 2.5, so there is plenty of time to judge because I'm still playing. It's not a "everything sucks now I'm leaving forever". I am taking my time but I see this going nowhere good.