"You pull, you tank" is a bad mentality

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Originally Posted by Arrius

Most tanks know their limits in most instances and situations in dungeons, so throwing a wrench in their plans is unnecessary.

Seen enough moments in Dzemael Darkhold alone where they think they are smart after the first boss with the toads, only to get aggro'd by one of them below.
They initially pull you away with their tongue and right into a group of them. If the fall damage didn't kill you first.

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This is one of the best examples I can think of; that area SUCKS! It's hard enough to manage placement without aggroing other mobs without people not paying attention to positioning and causing all sorts of trouble. The last time I went in there the DPS were pushing for larger pulls and I ended up in a bad place, making for a messy situation.

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Originally Posted by ElHeggunte

Why is it YPYT is always "petty" or "toxic" behavior, but going ahead and pulling ahead of the tank without discussing it with the party first isn't? The tank may be pulling slowly for a reason. Ask before you take it upon yourself to "help" by bringing extra mobs. Otherwise it's very easy to waste more time on a wipe than you'd have saved with an extra pack of mobs.

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The difference is intent. They aren't intending to cause a wipe but simply speeding things up whereas a YPYT tank's only goal is for someone to die. When the general expectation is to wall pull, people will naturally assume that's what you'll do it. The onus is on you to say otherwise not them.

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Originally Posted by Arrius

And why should the tank/healer tolerate such behavior when the DPS roles do such a stunt?

They already have the least responsibility in a group and seemingly are allowed to get away with a lot of things, be it getting hit by avoidable attacks, not doing their AoE rotation in groups of 3+ or just do crappy DPS in general.
But sure, blame it on the tank. Same when you reach enrage in fights where apparently "A different tank would have made the difference under the same circumstances."

But never hold the DPS responsible.

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This whole "responsibility" argument has always been silly to me. Tanks and Healers barely have anything to do in dungeons nowadays. As a Tank main myself, I stand there and take hits while throwing up a CD or two, depending on the pull. Only in massive pulls do I even have to pay attention, though Bloodwhetting certainly changes that. On Healer, I spend FAR more time spamming Holy/Gravity than really paying all that attention to the Tank's HP unless they're super squish. DPS has their rotation to try and maximize AoE damage, which I'd honestly put on par with what Tanks and Healers are doing as their respective rotations are barebones.

Put simply, y'all have equal responsibility just in different areas. Turning your nose up at DPS is just putting your role on an undeserved pedestal.

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Originally Posted by Tanis_Ebonhart

A Tank is the Leader.

Not the DPS and definitely not the Healer.

A party where anyone but the Tank sets the pace has always ended up by being far more effort than it needed to be.

Worse are the parties where the Tank lets themselves be bullied.

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You wanna tell that to the Monk over on TalesFromDF who wound up tanking the big pulls in Ktiss because the tank threw a hissy fight when they triggered the bird mobs to spawn? Healer kept them alive without any trouble and both they, and the remaining DPS, kept going ahead and double pulled the next set.

Bluntly stated, if you're single pulling above 60, you're not a tank, you're a gimped DPS who isn't necessary. Three DPS and a healer would be more efficient for less effort. Hence why people get annoyed at slow tanks in higher level dungeons.

One time, a Machinist tanked the entirety of The Twinning because of this mentality. Was pretty fun, actually.

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Originally Posted by Tanis_Ebonhart

Ah, so you're a follower and not a leader.

I suggest a different job role then.

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Thats not what I said. Just that, if some dps wants to Rambo and use all of their mobility to pull a pack seconds before I do, ill just take them and move on, Not start drama, with people I probably will never see again.

Suggestion denied.

a tank isn't the "leader" of a group. it takes 1 - 2 GCD AOES to pull every mob back onto you. if you know how to tank, rotating CDs isn't any more difficult with 10 mobs as there are with 3. as a tank main, i don't understand the YPYT mentality. grow up lol

edit: i don't have problems with DPS or healers pulling in front of me because i pop sprint and pull everything. and IF a dps or healer pull before me? i couldn't care less.

Lets put it this way. Had a twitchy, jump happy Black Mage decide he was going to sprint ahead and pull at the onset of Mt. Gulg.

All this while I was setting everything up, tank stance, bit of food, making sure everything was set for monster pulls (that you can actually do in that instance).

Dude lasted about 3 hits before I got there and got my first AoE in.

Moral of the story: If you can't take a few hits, don't go in front of the tank whether you're a healer or a dps.

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Originally Posted by SenorPatty

Tell me how to gap close ahead of the jobs I listed when I have no enemy to target. There's a reason I specifically listed those three jobs out of them all. I was reminded a smileton run where I never outsped or outran a reaper because of that. Granted, Smileton's mob clusters are fairly close so I was only behind by like, five seconds every time we encountered a pack. Can't say the same for some other instances where clusters are pretty well spaced from one another.

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Sounds like you're not using sprint correctly or going afk at the start of the dungeon. A sprinting character can cover 15y in around 1 second, so it isn't possible for someone to gain a 5 second lead only using Hell's Ingress one time. I've probably done over 100 runs of Smileton at this point, and this just isn't an actual problem, let alone a common one

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Originally Posted by BaconBits

YPYT is the coward's mindset.

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Ironic you say this when after a DPS pulls aggro they will come whimpering back looking for someone else to save them pretty sharpish.

They want to hope the healers in a forgiving mood if it happens, because I will quite happily let them keep the aggro :)

Tanking is the most stressful role and healing is second, in my 20 years of MMO experience. How many times have my groups, raids etc wiped because of DPS pulling , etc ... You only really begin to understand the content properly when you spend time tanking. The tank shouldn't be lead around from the nose by DPS, this makes me log out and or stop tanking. If the tank asks you not to pull and you ignore them, then sure, enjoy your death. If the content is hard challenging content, you should not be pulling as anything but the tank or for strategic reasons agreed upon.

At the end of the day I guess it's about tolerance, I just don't have it in me to be dragged around by noobs anymore. I spent years in that position as it is.

10 year healer here. You pull, you tank. 9/10 times I will side with the actual tank in any duty. Just the way it is. You don't like it as a dps? Roll tank. DPS are always replaceable. Always.