Being Gendered Correctly

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Originally Posted by FJerome

"They". The pronoun you're looking for is the singular they.

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It would be wrong to use "they" in the context the OP is arguing about.

Example:

When I tell someone a joke, they laugh.

In the example above, using "they" is correct since someone doesn't refer to a specific person. It can refer to any one person just not a specific one.


When I tell Jane a joke, she laughs.

In the example above, it is wrong to use "they" since i am specifically referring to Jane.


If I were to use the OP's name as an example,

Kimmy Dee tells a lot of funny jokes. She is a funny person.

It is wrong to use "they" in that context (even the singular they). And the English language doesn't have any word to replace he/she as a genderless term. And as someone said, using "it" is definitely worse.

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Originally Posted by Remilia_Nightfall

Technically, humans ARE animals, since they are not plants or rocks.

Elevating sentient species to something "above" animals is just wishful thinking. But I feel we are digressing :P

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Eh, that is an argument of semantics more so than wishful thinking. I was using the Philosophical categorization of Sentient vs. Animalistic, not the Scientific classification of Plant vs. Animal.

And if you wanted to really get into that argument, I would bring up the Sylvari race from another game who are a race of Sentient PLANTS!!!

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Originally Posted by Razzle

Yes I would refer to them as "it". (sorry Yoda for insulting you but you're an alien!)

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So you would refer to Commander Spock as an "It" even though the characters in Star Trek constantly refer to him as a He?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Remilia_Nightfall

most of the people you find online do not care if you are man, woman, gay, trans or dolphin.

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Wise words.

Ï refer to characters by their gender (or the percieved gender of their name, if I don't know the gender of the character) usually. It's just easier that way. The way I see it, I'm talking to their character and not them per se. If they're guys being miffed about being referred to as 'she' or 'her' because they picked a female character, then perhaps they should think twice, next time they make a new character.

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Originally Posted by Pantz

It would be wrong to use "they" in the context the OP is arguing about.

Example:

When I tell someone a joke, they laugh.

In the example above, using "they" is correct since someone doesn't refer to a specific person. It can refer to any one person just not a specific one.


When I tell Jane a joke, she laughs.

In the example above, it is wrong to use "they" since i am specifically referring to Jane.


If I were to use the OP's name as an example,

Kimmy Dee tells a lot of funny jokes. She is a funny person.

It is wrong to use "they" in that context (even the singular they). And the English language doesn't have any word to replace he/she as a genderless term. And as someone said, using "it" is definitely worse.

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Easily fixed.

Just avoid using pronouns altogether. Always.

When I tell Jane a joke, laughs.

Kimmy Dee tells a lot of jokes. Is a funny person.

Much wow.

Very grammar.

So politically correct.

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Originally Posted by Tharian

Eh, that is an argument of semantics more so than wishful thinking. I was using the Philosophical categorization of Sentient vs. Animalistic, not the Scientific classification of Plant vs. Animal.

And if you wanted to really get into that argument, I would bring up the Sylvari race from another game who are a race of Sentient PLANTS!!!

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Indeed, and I hardly believe that philosophers of the past took Sylvari into account when defining their Sentient vs Animalistic categorization.

Stick to the science, bro!

And just for the sake of argument, Sylvari are anthropomorphized enough to be considered on par with humans, and thus with sufficiently defined genders to be able to use proper pronouns.
But hey, at any rate English is not the only language in the world - in Italian, for example, there is no "neutral" pronoun - so everything is either male or female, no matter the species.

Been called he a lot of times, I quickly say she and from that point on it stands corrected, not a big issue really.

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Originally Posted by Marowit

You're right I'm not transgender. To be honest though I have to wonder how much of this problem is real and how much of it is the OP being mad random strangers don't acknowledge something they don't know is happening. Had the OP not said it I myself would have never guessed they used to be a man.

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This. I think people who say it isn't an issue are kind of missing the point :p It IS an issue for Kimmy because she is transgender and it's important to her. If they don't know you're transgender Kimmy, how are they going to know that it's hurting/offending you?! Even if you explained to them you'd probably grief for it :( I'm sorry that you have to experience this, it would probably might be a good idea to run as set group with people who understand and respect you're feelings on this issue. Get yourself an FC or linkshell if you haven't already!

Personally, I'm an older woman playing a girl, if I get called a guy I just gently correct them :) And if I then get hit on it's a "I'm old enough to be your mother, pack it in :p"

Maybe an avatar looks female, but actually the character is a pre op FTM who prefers "he". Or maybe the character is neither a man nor a woman and prefers "xe".

The OP asks people to assume that gender matches appearance stereotypes, but that's hurtful to characters with other types of gender.

It is unrealistic to expect strangers to know how who you are and what your preferences are. They don't know your IRL gender and they can't be sure of your character's gender based on appearance.

Don't be hurt because strangers don't know you. Unless you ask everyone you meet what gender they are and what pronouns they prefer, then admit that it's a bit unrealistic to expect people to go that far.
People make assumptions so they can communicate and play the game, not because they're trying to hurt you.

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Originally Posted by Remilia_Nightfall

Indeed, and I hardly believe that philosophers of the past took Sylvari into account when defining their Sentient vs Animalistic categorization.

Stick to the science, bro!

And just for the sake of argument, Sylvari are anthropomorphized enough to be considered on par with humans, and thus with sufficiently defined genders to be able to use proper pronouns.

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I would like to point out that there are in fact modern day philosophers (some of whom have a prestigious Doctorate of Philosophy no less) who do discuss modern day philosophical questions. As such the topic of Sentient vs. Animalistic is still very much alive.

Your argument about the Sylvari is valid, though incorrect. Although Sylvari have the appearance of Gender, all of them are barren with only their Mother Tree being able to create new Sylvari. As such they are probably more Bi-Sexual than real world Bi-Sexuals. Their entire view on romance has more to do with Courtly Romance than actual romance as it is understood by other societies in their world. And interestingly enough the concept of Sylvari Anatomy and Sexuality is a very important topic to the fans of that game for varying reasons.

That said, if you refuse to class Sylvari as truly inhuman Plant-based Sentience, then what about the Ent's from Tolkein's Lord of the Rings Trilogy?

Also, your comment about Italian is kind of silly when at least two languages have already been pointed out with Gender-Neutral Pronouns, and I have already pointed out a language (Irish Gaelic) where every cotton pickin' word changes pronunciation and spelling based on whether it is masculine, feminine, or gender-neutral, something that can only be determined by the other words surrounding it in the sentence.