Now that leves will be gone from our main exp function...

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Originally Posted by Dreamer

The fact that people are asking for grinding at all says multitudes about the mindsets of the posters here. You shouldn't be asking for party grinding at all, you should be asking how the devs can make character progression both efficient and enjoyable.

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Holy crap thank you. I didn't want to say it, but it looks like the vast majority of FFXI/FFXIV fans are all single track, grindan oriented players. Virtually every RPG in the last half a decade or more has done away with grinding; and here we have a whole bunch of people who cling to grinding like it's the holy grail of gaming.

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9. Get rid of fatigue

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I don't know how I forgot to mention this so far. IMO this is the single biggest reason that I saw people leaving the game. It wasn't the battle system. It wasn't lack of content. It was SE telling the players that they were not allowed to play the game as much as they wanted. I understand WHY SE thought this was a good idea but the end result was many players felt like they were children being told by their parents how long they could do something. It sent entirely the wrong message and many players DID NOT LIKE FATIGUE.

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Originally Posted by Zoltan

In FF11 there were expectations of people in parties that were valid. Once you hit level 72 and were ready for partying in Caedarva Mire you were expected to know that wearing fang earrings, fang necklace and NQ Amemet mantle was gimp.

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Bad reasoning to begin with. The fang earrings thing I can understand, well, once stuff like spike earrings became easier to get rather than be subject to the sad rule HQs followed in XI. The NQ Amemet mantle, no. Not when the HQ was much, much more expensive. On Asura when I was leveling the HQ mantle was seven or eight times what the mantle was worth NQ before the introduction of stuff like forager's mantle. I hated the "farm beehive chips between level ranges so that people don't wrongfully consider you a gimp" aspect of that mess.

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If that was "stressful" then there's no way you'd make it at endgame.

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Gear elitism is fine in the context of endgame. I've been there as well and put in my time to research my options and went with what worked for me.

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The skills you learned in Valkurm Dunes and Qufim Island built up to ready you for Garliage Citadel etc. There was a progression. It may have seemed like a grind but you did get to go to new places and fight different monsters. There was a social element to it because if you were doing something wrong or were new to an area people would help you.

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Bad reasoning, and has been debunked. You could hit the level cap and still not know how to play your class. Forced partying had nothing to do with the "training" one needed to actually be useful at the level cap.

Maybe forced partying wasn't required, but if you were a good player at the game it was a useful tool to learn more about your role. Sure you could be an idiot and just get carried, but you'd get kicked out of my party if you were'nt doing your best at your job.

You learned valuable lessons in the game at different camps. There was a progression. It wasn't requred to learn skills but it helped. No one ever said: "You should try this......"? There was a social aspect to partying in groups in FF11.
My friends didn't play in NQ Amemet at Caedarva Mire. At 72 if you couldn't afford HQ Amemet you were an amateur.

I'm not going to beat the FF11 was better than FFXIV because the horse is dead.

All I'm saying is that there are some good things that SE should take from the old version. That's all.

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Originally Posted by AlexiaKidd

Duelle this thread is about making multiple forms of gaining SP/EXP and the only way that can be achieved for Grind Parties to become viable is to remove the cap. If everything was fine as is then there would be grind parties everywhere but there is not and this cap is one of the reasons for that.

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I understand what you're saying, but at the same time I keep in mind the implications of how that would affect party dynamics. Not even level correction is much of a deterrent when it comes to it.

As was put so well, the problem is more people being able to solo mobs 10 ranks above them. If you ask me, I'd go with the idea to create an "elite" bracket for mobs and have those be in dungeons and be grinding targets in the open field.

It's a difficult situation seeing that if you make normal mobs more difficult you'll have to up SP gains upon kill. If you create elites, you need to place them somewhere where they won't intrude on your average traveler when not in the context of dungeons. Level correction would still have to be fiddled with to a degree. I'd go the WoW route and make it so that anything more than three levels/ranks higher than you as normal mobs would be very difficult and elites being near impossible to kill, and balance combat between PCs and NPCs around that.

I'm just going to throw this out there, but I don't see it as a mob difficulty issue. I see it as an SE issue where they don't scale the SP with the difficulty of the mob that you kill. Rather they capped the SP at 10 levels above your rank and give you the SP for a much lower level mob.

There are many difficult mobs that no one kills because the risk/reward is unbalanced.

No one mentions that they really ramped up the SP per level in FFXIV versus FF11. I know they won't change that now because that's not SE's modus operandi, but I thought that I'd throw it out there. 44001 XP to level from 75-76 in FF11 compared in FFXIV from 31~32 it's 45,000SP. (XP is useless in FFXIV once you hit the 50 cap). It still is a valid comparison because the SP per mob is comparable. Yes, leves, etc. skew the comparison, but when you're grinding DoH at 280-300sp per synth and it's 45,000 until you get your next rank, that's one hell of a grind.

I'm fairly certain the goal is to make this game not about leveling up. The Devs seem to want to make leveling something that just happens naturally. That being said, the only thing that ever stopped partying from being viable in this game was the inability to find people who wanted to party.. Grinding will never go away and it will always be the most efficient way to hit level cap, but whats the point of hitting level cap if you just pass by everything else in the game? I think SE has the right Idea giving us leves, quests, dungeons and what I can only assume will be party invasions of beast-men settlements. In the end, if things are done right, we will all be so busy doing various fun activities with our friends we won't even notice our XP bars going up and grinding will be lost to we who play the game part of the game.

Oh yea, I also meant to point out that there is a tier system in this game.. You may get capped SP at 10 level over your own but there is still variation. Some types of enemies cap at 200 other cap at 350.. If your not getting good SP in your grind you should try fighting something else.

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Originally Posted by Kiote

Oh yea, I also meant to point out that there is a tier system in this game.. You may get capped SP at 10 level over your own but there is still variation. Some types of enemies cap at 200 other cap at 350.. If your not getting good SP in your grind you should try fighting something else.

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What about when you solo a red mob that is over 10 levels above you and you get 120SP?

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Originally Posted by Zoltan

What about when you solo a red mob that is over 10 levels above you and you get 120SP?

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Then you should probably not be fighting Chigo's, beetles, fireflies and rats...
Also these cap out at 150, not 120, so maybe you were in -20% fatigue

I don't know about you, But personally i am ok with a R45-49 Spiny dormouse giving less SP than an R45-49 mistbeard buccaneer, or R45-49 Qiqirn Poacher
Both of which will cap out at 300 or 450