Seriously 3-5 minute repop on NMs?

Just give the NM hunters vouchers to their local casinos. That's where they're going to end up for the rest of their lives anyway. Losing life hours for small shots at things is an addiction, not entertainment.

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Originally Posted by Abriael

In FFXIV with the shorter respawn times, complete strangers team up, chat amicably and make new friends, sharing loot and fun.

It's absolutely obvious which option is better for the community. I shouldn't even need to explain it.

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This is exactly the experience I've had and it's been great. So far my drop rate is 0 :(, but every time I have tracked down an NM and been on my own, and said "Hi, can I join one of the groups?", people are always happy to let me join up and share in the chance at loot and send me an invite to join right away and we all have a good time chatting and fighting.

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Originally Posted by Clydey

FFXI functioned absolutely fine without this utopian existence you speak of.

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With "absolutely fine", you mean endless bickering and growing hate between linkshells and single players that happened to hunt the same stuff?

Even the Japanese players in FFXIV are a lot more friendly and sharing. There's a reason for that.
It's called "cooperative game".

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We do not train to be merciful here. Mercy is for the weak. Here, in the streets, in competition: A man confronts you, he is the enemy. An enemy deserves no mercy.

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Sorry. Couldn't resist.

:)

You may resume your disorder.

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Originally Posted by Clydey

I actually disagree with this. Obviously we could do without all the MPKing and such nonsense. Those issues can be addressed. However, I do value the sort of competition we saw in XI. It can lead to unsavoury incidents, but for me the positives outweighed the negatives. I particularly enjoyed the competition between linkshells. That was a huge selling point for me.

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It's what the top dog ls's live for, and you're in one of the most well known. Again it's a matter of personal preference. Personally I'm more of a social player, and I hate confrontation. I'm all for self improvement, but I always gritted my teeth dealing with the competitive scene. I do not mean to be too insulting by generalizing, but my experience the competitive scene involved alot of players who would criticize other's behind their backs over offering to help them improve themselves. Then again I'm a self admited white knight by nature.

I'm all for a challenge as far as nm's and gear goes, but I'd rather not see a segregation in the playerbase like what used to exist in xi. i.e. "Player (...) is godlike because player (...) rolls with linkshell (...) which knows all the ToDs and has the means to outclaim and kill nm (...) with ease and does so on a daily basis"

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Originally Posted by CrystalWeapon

It's what the top dog ls's live for, and you're in one of the most well known. Again it's a matter of personal preference. Personally I'm more of a social player, and I hate confrontation. I'm all for self improvement, but I always gritted my teeth dealing with the competitive scene. I do not mean to be too insulting by generalizing, but my experience the competitive scene involved alot of players who would criticize other's behind their backs over offering to help them improve themselves. Then again I'm a self admited white knight by nature.

I'm all for a challenge as far as nm's and gear goes, but I'd rather not see a segregation in the playerbase like what used to exist in xi. i.e. "Player (...) is godlike because player (...) rolls with linkshell (...) which knows all the ToDs and has the means to outclaim and kill nm (...) with ease and does so on a daily basis"

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I would like to see a balance. I certainly don't want people excluded simply because of the competition aspect. Ideally, you would cater to everyone. I would certainly be open to new ideas and whatever compromises there are. What I wouldn't want is for one camp to get everything they want to the exclusion of another, whether it be those who share my view or those who share yours.

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Originally Posted by Clydey

I would like to see a balance. I certainly don't want people excluded simply because of the competition aspect. Ideally, you would cater to everyone. I would certainly be open to new ideas and whatever compromises there are. What I wouldn't want is for one camp to get everything they want to the exclusion of another, whether it be those who share my view or those who share yours.

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Agreed.

Regardless with what SE comes up with though, I'm sure there will be bitching on an epic level.

Kind of hard to come up with something that would please a majority of the people on both sides though. The only things I could come up with would be if they did increase timers on new higher lv nms would be a system kind of like xi's bcnms. Another thought would be something like mentioned before, have a hunt system that would spawn a nm specific to the party that engaged on the hunt somewheres in the feild. Just make it so the timed nm has a higher droprate, due to it's difficulty to claim.

I agree that the respawn time is a bit ridiculous, but as many pages have said this is for lower level people. My LS decided to go kill a NM at the proper level range and it took quite a bit of time to kill. The drop rates are horrible as it so just imagine taking 20 minutes to kill it at a proper level and no drops. It's going to take them longer to get it. Who cares if you're going to out level it in a couple of levels: it's for fun purposes. Lower levels know by now there's no point rushing to 50 since there's no end-game content yet.

And those who compared WoW to FFXIV in their post are just plain moronic.

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Originally Posted by Clydey

FFXI functioned absolutely fine without this utopian existence you speak of.

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No. It did not.

I think those mini NM's are good, for what they are. It's really just more content for middle lvl range players, fast re-spawn, it's also good, it took my pt (few 50lvl) a while to get drop's for alt's etc, so for 20-30 lvl players it's still some challenge.

However (I don't know if this was mentioned before) it would be cool if they could have different colours, than normal mob's maybe?? :)

I think every patch that adds NM content should do so for both low, mid, and high ranks. That way everyone has something to hunt.

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Originally Posted by Peregrine

Just give the NM hunters vouchers to their local casinos. That's where they're going to end up for the rest of their lives anyway. Losing life hours for small shots at things is an addiction, not entertainment.

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Amen Peregrine. Wish this was displayed at the top of the forum.

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Originally Posted by Elexia

I agree, because in FFXI, I can kill leaping lizzy, I can pop the Sapling NM in Ngusta and and and I can claim Valkrum Emperor and and and I can pop Unstable Cluster and and and..

Guess what? Better gear exist yet I can get FAIRLY LOW LEVEL GEAR EASILY AND RELATIVELY QUICKLY.

People act as if this is game changing/breaking gear, my goddess.

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yes, you also have problems of people ninja claiming NMs, the problem is never going to completely go away, but I think I'd rather have a heavily camped NM pop at a faster rate, than waste 10% of my life waiting for this thing to spawn, only to have it stolen by someone who just showed up.

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Originally Posted by Moth

Please answer me this Randis are you honestly completely ok with 3 minute repop and like a 50% drop rate?

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um... 50% drop rate? You obviously haven't fought these NMs, I spent 7 hours on Sunday camping Kokoroon Quickfingers I can assure you that the drop rate is not 50% of anything, in that time the party I was in claimed 60~70 times and most of those claims, we got nothing but earrings. Before that, I joined a friend to hunt Cactuar Jack, again, mostly armlets, 1-2 Elmos, and 3 knuckles over 2 1/2 hours. I'd say the drop rate for this gear is realistically between 8% and 12%.

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Originally Posted by Vanguard319

um... 50% drop rate? You obviously haven't fought these NMs, I spent 7 hours on Sunday camping Kokoroon Quickfingers I can assure you that the drop rate is not 50% of anything, in that time the party I was in claimed 60~70 times and most of those claims, we got nothing but earrings. Before that, I joined a friend to hunt Cactuar Jack, again, mostly armlets, 1-2 Elmos, and 3 knuckles over 2 1/2 hours. I'd say the drop rate for this gear is realistically between 8% and 12%.

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And then you get instances like mine where I went 2/2 on two different items a few days ago. The drop rate is pretty low, but probability is funny like that.

According to FFXIV YG, drop rates for the items vary between 7.14% (Crimson Tide) and Thalassian Targe (18.75%). Guessing these are .dat mined numbers...

Also just noticed a trend...r25 gear drops from r36 NMs, r30 gear from r42 NMs, and r35 gear from r47 NMs in keeping difficulty in alignment with people just achieving those ranks. Couple anomalies, but generally holds.

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Originally Posted by gifthorse

The trouble is:

Everyone will be wearing the exact same thing.

Abriael said the drop rate was so low as to reduce that. But then you guys decided that the drop rate should be high because it's only low level gear.

So that brings me back to: everyone will be wearing the exact same thing.

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Been nearly a week since the update, I've seen more rdms wearing thier AF gear in XI, than I've seen lncs, mrds, or glas with darkshell mail or wearing conqustador's elmos. Your argument has been proven invalid.

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Originally Posted by Vanguard319

Been nearly a week since the update, I've seen more rdms wearing thier AF gear in XI, than I've seen lncs, mrds, or glas with darkshell mail or wearing conqustador's elmos. Your argument has been proven invalid.

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As much as I don't agree with how it was said, the underlying point remains the same in that I've seen very few wearing it, I myself have the lance, helm and scale mail for my LNC, but I think small server populations, coupled with the NMs still being relatively new, we don't really have much chance to see a lot of people wearing the gear. I imagine this stuff will be pretty popular provided PS3 launch is a success. But by that point all of us who are here talking about it will likely have moved on to new equipment sets anyway.

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Originally Posted by Gildrein

Greetings, fellow adventurers!

As some of you have mentioned, the notorious monsters that were added on Patch 1.17 are designed for mid-rank players. So for those of you who have already reached to a higher rank, they may feel less of a challenge.

However we are planning to introduce new notorious monsters with more devastating strength and a complete new look in the future. We will give you an update once more details become available so please look forward to it!

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Just not "hardcore" enough.

For the truly "hardcore" players, we need NMs that will actually eat your character, deleting the character from your roster and requiring you to reroll a new one, adding whatever you were carrying to the loot from that NM.

It might just be hardcore enough...

I don't really have a problem with low repop timers. As long as the gear remains as rare a drop rate as it appears to be currently, and as long as future high level NMs are more challening and take longer to kill, faster repops arent a big deal to me. But....... I do want more challenging NMs that also take 15-20 min to kill for high-level NMs.

As for things like an epic chain of quests or missions or what have you, at the end of the final task I would want those things to give drops 100% of the time. I really liked getting the choice of 1 accessory at the end of a mission storyline.

And I definately want challenging endgame dungeons, both short (30 min) and long (1-2 hrs, with challenging bosses. While I am opposed to the idea of waiting for NMs etc etc., I do believe in the idea of investing time towards an achivement. Like how some of the FFXI endgame events had points systems, or trophy items, or tiers, or like Limbus's combination of AF gear + 1 rare drop + (x number) of ancient beast coins. So I would like the dungeons to be extremely accessible, but challenging and involving an investment over time to build towards something great. Now on the other hand, I do think that the path to making relic weapons in FFXI was crazyland. So things like that I could do without.

The only other thing that I would ask is that no items from any of the above listed event-types would be able to be traded or bought or sold or crafted. This will eventually be a Pay to Play subscription, lets not put it on the same level as Pay to Win cashshop.

I, personally, am ecstatic that this game has yet to fall into the horrendous morass of pointless time-wasting that was HNMs in XI. I sincerely hope it continues to skirt that particular pitfall.

Thank you for the Mid Rank NM's and let me tell you why we like them:
1. There is competition for them and the drop rate for many is what 10% that means you could be there farming, competition arrives and they get a pop and drop... you worked hard to get those odds in your favor and they dropped to another group. The competition is real. The time it takes to get them is fair. Gluttonous Gertrude is a glutton for punishment and doesn't like to share that is for sure. We killed her 25 times one day, received 2 drops...
2. The drop rate is perfect. Not to much, I am glad the drop rate is as low as it is, at the same time I am glad it isn't much lower, I am happy that efforts are rewarded and we can see what these drops are.
3. Fun! Thanks for introducing a type of NM that multiple player types can enjoy. From Hard Core to Casual you can have fun with these either way you go. Just sit back and get a much needed/wanted item for an LS mate, or go make a goal of it and try to get all the drops from NM's in the game. YAY, these NM's allowed us as players to set different goals and achievements for ourselves.
4. Variety, I thinking continuing to introduce multiple types of NM's is a great idea to cater to the variety of players in this game.

Thanks!

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Originally Posted by Zenaku

why can't we just agree on something really -.- Casual players are more hard handed then hardcore using labels so you understand what players am saying. but really we can have both guys no need to fight over something this dumb.

getting something within a short amount of time is not fun killing a mob within a short time is also not fun. We need a mix to make this game the best game ever.

Think about it a game that is hardcore and casual mix together and come on the game look better then any mmo out there. everyone would enjoy it and maybe this game can get over 6mil players and become great. but it's only casual then it just be like wow no one really going to see the fun in it. if it like wow but ffxi mix together really good and done nice everyone would join and play. we would have events in CA for ffxiv and even time card for this game a great stuff.

we can't just make this game all casual come on ; ;

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I didn't see much discussion about this but people really need to read it. Game should be for both hardcore and casual.

CP: "Hello, I am a casual FFXIV player. My enjoyment of the game comes from experiencing as much game content as possible. Please add more content that I can experience while keeping my job, school and family."

HP: "Hello, I am a hardcore FFXIV player. My enjoyment of the game comes from feeling that I am better than others. Please lock people out of as much content as possible so I can look down on them."

Meh, My LS has been having a great time with the new NMs, that's all that matters to me.

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

Meh, My LS has been having a great time with the new NMs, that's all that matters to me.

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I've been having a great time doing nothing in this game! All that matters to me......

There is plenty to do in-game, if you've been doing nothing that's your own fault.

Troll harder.

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

There is plenty to do in-game, if you've been doing nothing that's your own fault.

Troll harder.

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What? Level a third battle job to 50? Or maybe I can level..... a 6th craft to 50?

I'll stick to choking the chicken in Ul'dah..

Have you done all the story quests and class quests? Currently, there's also the 'egg-hunt'. How about helping fellow LS mates get their classes to 50? Or maybe even get creative and do like a scavenger hunt, go exploring, or do like an aetheryte field trip, to help out folks who are new to the game.

Or you can keep choking your chicken in uldah as you say, wallowing in your own self-loathing. It's up to you.

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Originally Posted by Molly_Millions

Have you done all the story quests and class quests? Currently, there's also the 'egg-hunt'. How about helping fellow LS mates get their classes to 50? Or maybe even get creative and do like a scavenger hunt, go exploring, or do like an aetheryte field trip, to help out folks who are new to the game.

Or you can keep choking your chicken in uldah as you say, wallowing in your own self-loathing. It's up to you.

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Story and all side quests for jobs/crafts done. Egg hunt, done. Help LS mates level their 3rd and 4th battle job to 50? Doesn't that require me leveling more? lol.

Just saying theres nothing to do besides level your jobs and play with your nuts, while you watch gil fall into your retainer.

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Originally Posted by Scarface

Story and all side quests for jobs/crafts done. Egg hunt, done. Help LS mates level their 3rd and 4th battle job to 50? Doesn't that require me leveling more? lol.

Just saying theres nothing to do besides level your jobs and play with your nuts, while you watch gil fall into your retainer.

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If you've done all that content and have multiple classes at 50, it may be time to take a break. You're clearly burning through content faster than they can make it so take a few months off and come back. Or don't. If you really don't enjoy playing the game that much anymore the next logical step would be to find a game you do enjoy.

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Originally Posted by Arcell

If you've done all that content and have multiple classes at 50, it may be time to take a break. You're clearly burning through content faster than they can make it so take a few months off and come back. Or don't. If you really don't enjoy playing the game that much anymore the next logical step would be to find a game you do enjoy.

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I think the underlying issues he's addressing, and one I completely agree with, is that there is no end game content, and there was none waiting for us when we did hit 50. I've never, ever played any other MMO where, I reach the level cap, and the next option for my playing of the game was to level another class/job/whatever.

And to be honest, it's hard not to "burn through content faster than they can make it" when there has been no substantial content in-game yet. And that's an issue for me, and many other gamers. It's like if you had bought Final Fantasy II (IV) for SNES, only to have to stop after Cecil became a paladin and wait a year for them to finish putting the rest of the game together.

But you buy an MMO knowing that it is an ever expanding game. You know that it starts out with the least amount of content and honestly at its worst. That's generally not an acceptable model for a console game.

I don't think anyone at this point would really argue that there isn't a lot of end-game content. That's been an established issue since launch. However the team is currently coding a major rehaul of the entire combat system, if they didn't have to do this maybe we'd have some more end-game content by now. But what's done is done, we can only go forward from here. Once the combat rehaul is over they'll have much more time and resources available to develop content.

Yes, all there really is to do right now is rank and collect gear. That's not an unknown issue, anyone who plays the game right now plays knowing this. If you don't like it then take a break and come back later or move on to another game. That would be the next logical step honestly.

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Originally Posted by Belial

I think the underlying issues he's addressing, and one I completely agree with, is that there is no end game content, and there was none waiting for us when we did hit 50. I've never, ever played any other MMO where, I reach the level cap, and the next option for my playing of the game was to level another class/job/whatever.

And to be honest, it's hard not to "burn through content faster than they can make it" when there has been no substantial content in-game yet. And that's an issue for me, and many other gamers. It's like if you had bought Final Fantasy II (IV) for SNES, only to have to stop after Cecil became a paladin and wait a year for them to finish putting the rest of the game together.

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It doesn't make sense to make endgame just yet for a game that's still having foundationwork done to the core programing. It also doesn't make sense to add it when the game is still essentially in testing and free to play.

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Originally Posted by Arcell

But you buy an MMO knowing that it is an ever expanding game. You know that it starts out with the least amount of content and honestly at its worst. That's generally not an acceptable model for a console game.

I don't think anyone at this point would really argue that there isn't a lot of end-game content. That's been an established issue since launch. However the team is currently coding a major rehaul of the entire combat system, if they didn't have to do this maybe we'd have some more end-game content by now. But what's done is done, we can only go forward from here. Once the combat rehaul is over they'll have much more time and resources available to develop content.

Yes, all there really is to do right now is rank and collect gear. That's not an unknown issue, anyone who plays the game right now plays knowing this. If you don't like it then take a break and come back later or move on to another game. That would be the next logical step honestly.

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Yes, however again, I wasn't disputing, only elaborating on a vague statement you replied to & you commenting on how he was burning through content..... but... there is no content... that's the thing.. Fact is, even though MMOs start out clunky and with needed improvements, no other MMO have I played where I got my character to the final level, only to have more levelling as my -only- option. Every other MMO comes with end-game content already established in the game. Hell, they all have low AND mid level content. We had none... zip... nadda.

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Originally Posted by CrystalWeapon

It doesn't make sense to make endgame just yet for a game that's still having foundationwork done to the core programing. It also doesn't make sense to add it when the game is still essentially in testing and free to play.

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Nowhere did I state they should be adding content prior to the system being over-hauled. I simply explained what Scarface said in a better way. And as much as it doesn't make sense to add end-game content now, it makes even less sense to release an MMO with absolutely no low/mid/end-game content.

lol, yoshi may fail also.

i dont think they will have it ready for ps3 launch which may be 2012-2013 lol. there trying too hard to please everyone they should fix the broken and do what they do. they need to go hardcore or casual inbetween aint happening.

well square's been making bad games for the last few years and its carrying over to this one the seem to frogot how to design.

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Originally Posted by Belial

Nowhere did I state they should be adding content prior to the system being over-hauled. I simply explained what Scarface said in a better way. And as much as it doesn't make sense to add end-game content now, it makes even less sense to release an MMO with absolutely no low/mid/end-game content.

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You implied that it should have been waiting for you at lv 50.

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I think the underlying issues he's addressing, and one I completely agree with, is that there is no end game content, and there was none waiting for us when we did hit 50. I've never, ever played any other MMO where, I reach the level cap, and the next option for my playing of the game was to level another class/job/whatever.

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If the game wouldn't have flopped upon launch we would have endgame atm, or at the very least the level cap would have been raised by this point. So technically it can't be judged against other MMO's b/c it's still in a testing phase.

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Originally Posted by CrystalWeapon

You implied that it should have been waiting for you at lv 50.

If the game wouldn't have flopped upon launch we would have endgame atm, or at the very least the level cap would have been raised by this point. So technically it can't be judged against other MMO's b/c it's still in a testing phase.

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Yes, it should have been waiting at rank 50, it should have been waiting at ranks 10, 20, 30 & 40 as well. I don't see how "should have had content at release" is anything like "should add content before system changes."

And again, you're coming back to the game failing at launch, which has absolutely nothing to do with what I am saying. There should be stuff for people of all ranks to do, UPON release. Not AFTER release.

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Originally Posted by Belial

Yes, it should have been waiting at rank 50, it should have been waiting at ranks 10, 20, 30 & 40 as well. I don't see how "should have had content at release" is anything like "should add content before system changes."

And again, you're coming back to the game failing at launch, which has absolutely nothing to do with what I am saying. There should be stuff for people of all ranks to do, UPON release. Not AFTER release.

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Failing upon launch has everything to do with the lack of endgame content. The game was rushed, and the intended plan was the same as XI. Endgame and the such was to come later after a level cap increase, or after sufficient time had passed. The reason players are stuck twiddling their thumbs was because of the initial rushed release date + the major overhauls that are being done now because of the flop.