The great streamer Asmongold is joining FFXIV

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Originally Posted by Atreides

In it's core both games are good, thats why they are successful and still going strong, it's just that WoW is currently in a situation where people are not happy with certain decisions hence all those creators jumping ship to FFXIV because they don't want to deal with the daily grind requirements and randomness.

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Yeah, it's a really weird situation for people to be pointing at each other going, "I TOLD YOU MY GAME WAS BETTER." FFXIV is coming off the high of a very successful expansion. WoW is being hit by an eight months .0 patch, which is usually a "foundation" patch, and unpopular designs.

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Originally Posted by Atreides

Kinda sad that alot of WoW players are not used to actual good story telling in the game, so much that they think story skip and boosting is the way to get to the fun parts of the game because no one likes leveling.

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It's alien looking in, but I cannot stress enough that many people do not care about story. They want a fun game with aesthetics they like to explore, and couldn't give a damn about who is who and what is what.

FFXIV's MSQ is a major selling point for a lot of people, but a major deal breaker for many others.

edit:
I mentioned before, but WoW players actually found a tactic to kill themselves in such a way to bypass a story instance. These are the lengths people will go when they don't want it.

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Originally Posted by LisSquid

Yeah, it's a really weird situation for people to be pointing at each other going, "I TOLD YOU MY GAME WAS BETTER." FFXIV is coming off the high of a very successful expansion. WoW is being hit by an eight months .0 patch, which is usually a "foundation" patch, and unpopular designs.



It's alien looking in, but I cannot stress enough that many people do not care about story. They want a fun game with aesthetics they like to explore, and couldn't give a damn about who is who and what is what.

FFXIV's MSQ is a major selling point for a lot of people, but a major deal breaker for many others.

edit:
I mentioned before, but WoW players actually found a tactic to kill themselves in such a way to bypass a story instance. These are the lengths people will go when they don't want it.

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I don't know that it's fair to say they couldn't give a damn about who is who and what is what.

Look at it from a different point of view - a new player one.

You just buy the game, specifically to play with your friends and you find out you sort of can't because you have to go through not only every expansion MSQ but the post MSQ that comes along with it.

For a lot of players, it's not a matter of not caring about who is who. It's a matter of they have SO much content to sift through that it can and does get disheartening when you want to play with your friends.

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Originally Posted by Frienze

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The MSQ being an entirely solo thing is also a huge issue. It was originally what kept me from digging my teeth into the game because it was so lonely. That being said, I don't think it's a far stretch to say that a lot of people love the gameplay of an mmo and take any story and lore as an extra. When that extra becomes the main dish, it becomes unappealing for the game mode they want to play.

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Originally Posted by LisSquid

The MSQ being an entirely solo thing is also a huge issue. It was originally what kept me from digging my teeth into the game because it was so lonely. That being said, I don't think it's a far stretch to say that a lot of people love the gameplay of an mmo and take any story and lore as an extra. When that extra becomes the main dish, it becomes unappealing for the game mode they want to play.

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That's why I often say, I love FFXIV - but I hate the questing.

Some of my favorite memories in WoW involve me getting in a party with a group of friends and questing through new expansions, etc. You can't -really- have that with FFXIV and that does kind of make the experience with questing a very lonely one, I agree.

I remember giving up at one point with FFXIV and playing alone, because all of my friends were further in the expansions than I was and I just constantly kept getting left behind. It was either buy a boost to play with them, or play alone.

I wasn't working at the time, so I played alone. :3

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Same. I haven't read a book since like 2009, and I don't know why anyone would want to buy one! I suppose they'd be nice decorations, but then again, I don't really decorate my house or room.

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I still buy physical books reading scans or kindle just does not do it for me when it comes to reading for enjoyment.

For textbooks and reading other then enjoyment yeah scans work fine for me.

If they ever did do a revamp of the MSQ, I think it would be awesome to let people work through it together. Plop other people in the back of cutscenes as an extra a la Praetorium. At least don't make us have to drop party when someone gets to a solo duty..

Level syncing on WoW has been so fun for helping friends either try out the game, or work on Loremaster on an alt. NG+ feels like the perfect opportunity to turn it into a "play with your friend who is a new player" system.

One could easily say the lore in WoW is better but then again WoW is using tactics where in order to understand that lore they make you buy their books in order to understand it better. It is money tactics like this that has pushed me away from their game among idiotic developers that literally pick what classes they want to do well in DPS and Heals.

I HATE questing with other players, or friends. It unironically ruins my immersion, and I always have to hurry up, because someone is skipping cutscenes and now I'm a burden. Even if that wasn't the case, it still would be weird having someone with me questing for like 10 hours, or hearing them over Discord. It's like when I hear people in other games talk about bringing co-op into established singleplayer franchises, and I'm just like.. please no.

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Originally Posted by Darksummoner

One could easily say the lore in WoW is better but then again WoW is using tactics where in order to understand that lore they make you buy their books in order to understand it better. It is money tactics like this that has pushed me away from their game among idiotic developers that literally pick what classes they want to do well in DPS and Heals.

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I dunno if I'd call that a money tactic. It's just a multimedia franchise.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

I HATE questing with other players, or friends. It unironically ruins my immersion, and I always have to hurry up, because someone is skipping cutscenes and now I'm a burden. Even if that wasn't the case, it still would be weird having someone with me questing for like 10 hours, or hearing them over Discord. It's like when I hear people in other games talk about bringing co-op into established singleplayer franchises, and I'm just like.. please no.

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Nothing stops you from solo questing in any game that offers it. FFXIV is the only one that mandates it.

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Originally Posted by Darksummoner

One could easily say the lore in WoW is better but then again WoW is using tactics where in order to understand that lore they make you buy their books in order to understand it better. It is money tactics like this that has pushed me away from their game among idiotic developers that literally pick what classes they want to do well in DPS and Heals.

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It is really better when it's not in the 60 buck product? What if you never go outside that product? So what the game provides is lacking and I can't call that better. :c Not when I can get that in another product and not have to step outside of said product. But yeah I do agree... it's all a money greed game there.

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Originally Posted by LisSquid

Nothing stops you from solo questing in any game that offers it. FFXIV is the only one that mandates it.

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FFXIV story is effectively a singleplayer linear storyline. Other players aren't taken into account - at all - in it's story telling. The problem with incorporating a proper co-op experience is it waters down the personal, story-driven experience, having to keep in mind other players and their role in it. Generally, co-op storytelling is awful, and co-op is only good for action games, platformers, etc. NOT a proper story-driven RPG experience, in my opinion.

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Originally Posted by LisSquid

Nothing stops you from solo questing in any game that offers it. FFXIV is the only one that mandates it.

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Exactly.

You can solo quest if you chose to, no one stops you from doing that. But FFXIV is an MMO and solo questing shouldn't be something you -have- to do. I should be able to party up with my friends and go nuts. It's the whole reason I play MMOs, to play with people. (Not judging anyone for enjoying to play alone though, just it isn't for me - and I think it's prob not for most MMO players because most people do play for the social aspect)

I'd say both games have their merits in terms of lore, though WoW wins out for me for a number of reasons.

For starters, it has a more interesting selection of playable races. Each with their own broad concept, fighting style, culture and agenda. I particularly liked the Blood Elves, Night Elves and Draenei when I played. FFXIV's options are fairly milquetoast by comparison as far as I'm concerned - and it doesn't help that any specialties that the playable races have are rendered obsolete because everyone supposedly has to be able to do everything.

The premise of many the classes intrigue me more. I'm a big fan of nature, so the lack of a druid or ranger job in FFXIV has always been disappointing. Same goes for darker jobs such as Death Knight, Demon Hunter and Warlock. Reaper is a good start and hopefully a sign that we're moving into grittier territory, though!

There's also a distinct starting zone for each playable race - so there's ample time to build them up and feel as though they're a part of the game world. FFXIV, meanwhile, just dumps new races into the game with little to no build up.

We see more boldness in terms of changes to the game world and leadership. We're still stuck with the exact same leader figures in the major city states since the days of ARR and the writers seem terrified to kill off any character who isn't an antagonist or minor character. WoW may go overboard with death from time to time, though at least it shakes things up.

The stakes are higher, generally. The losses are felt. The land is scarred. We haven't see any of that since the transition from 1.0 to 2.0 and that was done because 1.0 was considered to be such a disaster that it needed to be rebuilt from the ground up.

There's also a broader range of characters in WoW's story. FFXIV just has a bunch of jumped up self proclaimed heroes who echo each other's views and seek to kill or strong arm anybody who dares to think or act differently to themselves into doing what they want.

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Originally Posted by Gameovers

It is really better when it's not in the 60 buck product? What if you never go outside that product? So what the game provides is lacking and I can't call that better. :c Not when I can get that in another product and not have to step outside of said product. But yeah I do agree... it's all a money greed game there.

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I think Blizzard is all about money these days. They care nothing for their players. It is all a money game now. But as for this game I really feel the developers want their game to succeed and for the players to be happy while playing it. But on the topic of Asmongold...I honestly think he shouldn't play this game. His form of toxicness along with some of his toxic players just need to stay over their in WoW. I have looked at numerous videos of his and he is toxic as hell. I know he has a HUGE follower base. But seeing him and what most of his followers say in chat is just ridiculous sometimes. I honestly don't welcome him here in FFXIV...Sorry Guys.

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Originally Posted by Frienze

Exactly.

You can solo quest if you chose to, no one stops you from doing that. But FFXIV is an MMO and solo questing shouldn't be something you -have- to do. I should be able to party up with my friends and go nuts. It's the whole reason I play MMOs, to play with people. (Not judging anyone for enjoying to play alone though, just it isn't for me - and I think it's prob not for most MMO players because most people do play for the social aspect)

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I think a lot of people’s arguments towards this is like, “WELL ITS A FINAL FANTASY FIRST AND AN MMO AFTER!” Which....no. When you call your game an mmo. That means that the mmo aspect of it should take priority. It’s the main pull of the genre, to play with others. The fact 14 forces solo question is pretty sad tbh and a major gripe i have with it. It’s why i can’t really take the story too seriously and i can’t get too involved with it.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

I think a lot of people’s arguments towards this is like, “WELL ITS A FINAL FANTASY FIRST AND AN MMO AFTER!” Which....no. When you call your game an mmo. That means that the mmo aspect of it should take priority. It’s the main pull of the genre, to play with others. The fact 14 forces solo question is pretty sad tbh and a major gripe i have with it. It’s why i can’t really take the story too seriously and i can’t get too involved with it.

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100% agree.

Though, I do love the story I admit.

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Originally Posted by Theodric

We see more boldness in terms of changes to the game world and leadership. We're still stuck with the exact same leader figures in the major city states since the days of ARR and the writers seem terrified to kill off any character who isn't an antagonist or minor character. WoW may go overboard with death from time to time, though at least it shakes things up.

The stakes are higher, generally. The losses are felt. The land is scarred. We haven't see any of that since the transition from 1.0 to 2.0 and that was done because 1.0 was considered to be such a disaster that it needed to be rebuilt from the ground up.

There's also a broader range of characters in WoW's story. FFXIV just has a bunch of jumped up self proclaimed heroes who echo each other's views and seek to kill or strong arm anybody who dares to think or act differently to themselves into doing what they want.

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I agree with this so much. From what little i know of WoW and it’s community, they seem much thicker skinned than the 14 community. They can’t even kill off characters anymore in 14 because people make such a big deal out of it when they do. It really takes the feeling of loss and consequences out of the story which is something that should always be a prominent thing in such a “high stakes” story. The WoW community doesn’t seem to get as upset over character deaths as much as over here and it’s a quality i really wish would transfer over to this community because like you said yeah, we’ve had the same cast every single expansion. It’s gotten so monotonous and we’re going into the final expansion of the story arc since the beginning of the game with the same people and same prominent figures. It’s just stale imo.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

I agree with this so much. From what little i know of WoW and it’s community, they seem much thicker skinned than the 14 community. They can’t even kill off characters anymore in 14 because people make such a big deal out of it when they do. It really takes the feeling of loss and consequences out of the story which is something that should always be a prominent thing in such a “high stakes” story. The WoW community doesn’t seem to get as upset over character deaths as much as over here and it’s a quality i really wish would transfer over to this community because like you said yeah, we’ve had the same cast every single expansion. It’s gotten so monotonous and we’re going into the final expansion of the story arc since the beginning of the game with the same people and same prominent figures. It’s just stale imo.

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Yeah, there's a lot of predictable melodrama. When even minor characters are encased in a thick layer of plot armour it's difficult for me to care about what happens - because we already know that in 99% of cases nobody is actually going to be threatened. It's a real shame, since ARR had a lot of moments where the stakes were high and consequences were felt such as the assault upon the Waking Sands. Ever since, there's been barely anything similar to that and all the consequences were conveniently cast onto sympathetic antagonists instead.

The story isn't without redeeming qualities, though it hasn't quite managed to surpass the likes of Final Fantasy Tactics, Final Fantasy VII or Final Fantasy XII in my eyes.

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Originally Posted by Frienze

Exactly.

You can solo quest if you chose to, no one stops you from doing that. But FFXIV is an MMO and solo questing shouldn't be something you -have- to do. I should be able to party up with my friends and go nuts. It's the whole reason I play MMOs, to play with people. (Not judging anyone for enjoying to play alone though, just it isn't for me - and I think it's prob not for most MMO players because most people do play for the social aspect)

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I notice you say MMO's but not MMORPGs. Fornite is a massive multi player online you might prefer over MMORPG's that have stories.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

Tbh this doesn’t seem much different from 14. Especially in ShB. There’s a loooot of integral lore points that are locked away in the short stories or lore books that people literally wouldn’t and don’t know about. It’s kind of sad actually.

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At least the story we have in-game connects and makes sense. In WoW you go straight from beating Garrosh in MoP and seeing him taken away in chains to ...Bam, he's running around free in a parallel universe. Or if you were late to BFA the ending of Legion and entire burning of Teldrassil quest chain are deleted and you're left digging online for scraps to find out what the heck going on.

FF14 Lore points being locked in short stories irks me, but how WoW handled it was straight up unsub worthy.

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Originally Posted by Liam_Harper

At least the story we have in-game connects and makes sense. In WoW you go straight from beating Garrosh in MoP and seeing him taken away in chains to ...Bam, he's running around free in a parallel universe. Or if you were late to BFA the ending of Legion and entire burning of Teldrassil quest chain are deleted and you're left digging online for scraps to find out what the heck going on.

FF14 Lore points being locked in short stories irks me, but how WoW handled it was straight up unsub worthy.

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Okay I'm upset about it again. Can we please stop using lore and story interchangeably? FFXIV has so little lore that it actually upsets me.

WoW's story is locked behind extra media half of the time. FFXIV has lore locked behind extra media. What little there is.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

I agree with this so much. From what little i know of WoW and it’s community, they seem much thicker skinned than the 14 community. They can’t even kill off characters anymore in 14 because people make such a big deal out of it when they do. It really takes the feeling of loss and consequences out of the story which is something that should always be a prominent thing in such a “high stakes” story. The WoW community doesn’t seem to get as upset over character deaths as much as over here and it’s a quality i really wish would transfer over to this community because like you said yeah, we’ve had the same cast every single expansion. It’s gotten so monotonous and we’re going into the final expansion of the story arc since the beginning of the game with the same people and same prominent figures. It’s just stale imo.

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See I read this and my reaction is this, Maybe they don't react much over deaths in WoW because most people from what I heard and see dont' care about the story in general. It's a race to the -good- content. Where as over here people seem to be more invested in the characters and stories and so yeah... death means alot more to people here. Now I'm not saying this is for EVERYONE... but that's the take I'm taking from it. That and I don't believe we need change just for change sake. - points to WoW's gearing system that changes every patch that pisses off alot of players over there off.-

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Originally Posted by Gameovers

See I read this and my reaction is this, Maybe they don't react much over deaths in WoW because most people from what I heard and see dont' care about the story in general. It's a race to the -good- content. Where as over here people seem to be more invested in the characters and stories and so yeah... death means alot more to people here. Now I'm not saying this is for EVERYONE... but that's the take I'm taking from it. That and I don't believe we need change just for change sake. - points to WoW's gearing system that changes every patch that pisses off alot of players over there off.-

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WoW players get upset about faction leaders being offed, feeling that it somehow suggests a bias against their faction. Not everyone does this...but it's something I've definitely seen several times.

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Originally Posted by Ayuhra

WoW players get upset about faction leaders being offed, feeling that it somehow suggests a bias against their faction. Not everyone does this...but it's something I've definitely seen several times.

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I think the biggest issue recently with this is that they've killed or otherwise ruined so many major lore characters and leaders on one side over the last few years (Horde) that they had to start borrowing them from the opposing faction, the Alliance. lol Horde bad, Alliance good.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

I think the biggest issue recently with this is that they've killed or otherwise ruined so many major lore characters and leaders on one side over the last few years (Horde) that they had to start borrowing them from the opposing faction, the Alliance. lol Horde bad, Alliance good.

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The Horde storyline is a very confusing, poorly told casserole of nonsense. And I almost exclusively play Horde.

I liked that window of time where new Horde players couldn't even figure out who their leader was. That was during the imprisonment/death of Garrosh Hellscream but he was still around in the lower level content then going into Warlords they find out it's Vol'jin, probably by him having a faction named after him because they didn't see the end cutscenes of MoP. Then in Legion it's suddenly Sylvanas... So Sylvanas is currently Warchief but Orgrimmar says it's Garrosh and any content in the WoD areas says it's Vol'jin and

https://s3.amazonaws.com/media.thecr...54_1350114.gif

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Originally Posted by Gameovers

See I read this and my reaction is this, Maybe they don't react much over deaths in WoW because most people from what I heard and see dont' care about the story in general. It's a race to the -good- content. Where as over here people seem to be more invested in the characters and stories and so yeah... death means alot more to people here. Now I'm not saying this is for EVERYONE... but that's the take I'm taking from it. That and I don't believe we need change just for change sake. - points to WoW's gearing system that changes every patch that pisses off alot of players over there off.-

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I mean, i hear there’s a large majority there that cares about the story. Probably the same amount that cares over here. I just think it has to do with this community being extra sensitive to things. They grow unhealthy attachments and obsessions to characters to the point they still aren’t over it 6 years later(looking at HW)...

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

Doesn't make any sense. Someone making more money then me and doing stuff I dont care or think about (heck you brought up things I never even mentioned) doesn't make them special. I never thought of it or mentioned it in the 1st place, you did. So I cant be Bitter or Jealous about it.

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Correction, you are refusing to mention it because you are bitter and jealous. Simple as that. Just because you don’t consider it to be special out of jealousy, doesn’t mean it’s not.

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

You continue to come at me and call me jealous and bitter when I have explained a few times now Im neither, nor do I have a reason to be, and that I dont care. So yes, this is harassment, because you wont stop accusing of something that I explained isn't the case.

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Nope, you’re the one upset here because I’m simply pointing out the truth on a public forum. Just because you don’t want to admit the truth, doesn’t mean I’m harassing you for pointing it out.

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

I never even declared once that I would stop responding to you, I called you a Troll. Not the same thing.

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Alright, that was my bad then. Feel free to reply and I’ll do the same rofl!

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

And this right here without a singe doubt proves you are a Troll
Go find a life, or a Hobby Dude.
Stop

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And here you have proven how bad your reasoning skills are. According to you, I speak for myself. You don’t speak for me. And I stated I’m not a troll, yet you call me a troll. So either you have no idea what you’re talking about, or you know I’m right and have been denying it all along because of your jealousy.

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Originally Posted by WoW

Just because you stated you're not, doesn't mean you aren't.

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Originally Posted by Zanarkand-Ronso

Yes it does. Because I speak for myself, you dont speak for me.

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And you wonder why you don’t realize that you’re bitter and jealous of Asmongold? It’s because you keep lying to yourself and going by flawed logic!

What was the question?

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Originally Posted by Ayuhra

The Horde storyline is a very confusing, poorly told casserole of nonsense. And I almost exclusively play Horde.

I liked that window of time where new Horde players couldn't even figure out who their leader was. That was during the imprisonment/death of Garrosh Hellscream but he was still around in the lower level content then going into Warlords they find out it's Vol'jin, probably by him having a faction named after him because they didn't see the end cutscenes of MoP. Then in Legion it's suddenly Sylvanas... So Sylvanas is currently Warchief but Orgrimmar says it's Garrosh and any content in the WoD areas says it's Vol'jin and

https://s3.amazonaws.com/media.thecr...54_1350114.gif

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It's all part of a larger story, but every expansion of the game is segmented into their own time bubbles of sorts. Each new expansion moves that story forward, but the old stuff never really gets updated to reflect that. It's not hard to follow if you approach it like this.

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Originally Posted by KizuyaKatogami

I mean, i hear there’s a large majority there that cares about the story. Probably the same amount that cares over here. I just think it has to do with this community being extra sensitive to things. They grow unhealthy attachments and obsessions to characters to the point they still aren’t over it 6 years later(looking at HW)...

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I hope they kill off graha and Estenien in 6.0 so I can laugh for at least six more years.

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Originally Posted by van_arn

I hope they kill off graha and Estenien in 6.0 so I can laugh for at least six more years.

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Technically Graha already did die. He just didn't stay dead.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

Technically Graha already did die. He just didn't stay dead.

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Extra dead please, so I may witness the lamentations of the steamers anew.

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Originally Posted by Vahlnir

It's all part of a larger story, but every expansion of the game is segmented into their own time bubbles of sorts. Each new expansion moves that story forward, but the old stuff never really gets updated to reflect that. It's not hard to follow if you approach it like this.

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Yeah, I know the plot of WoW but I've been playing since Burning Crusade (original one). If you are there "live" as all the plot bricks stack up you can follow it but a new player just ran into a huge mess.

The new level system in Shadowlands where you go straight to Battle for Azeroth first or Chromie Time to the other expansions was to cut down on some of this confusion (and to make the expansions work with a level squish)

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Originally Posted by van_arn

I hope they kill off graha and Estenien in 6.0 so I can laugh for at least six more years.

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I wish i could upvote this twice...it’s a long time coming.

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Originally Posted by van_arn

I hope they kill off Lyse in 6.0 so I can laugh for at least six more years.

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* fixed

Just make 6.0 third impact and turn us all to goo.

I've never played WoW cause it's not on console but I've heard of this dude and then I watched some of his videos and I must say I welcome his arrival, a non SJW voice like his is welcome by me, we got to much of that crap in our community anyways.

Him and voices like the YouTube Channel, Gaming With Raziel are very rare here and id welcome more.

So in closing, Asmongold I don't know u, u don't know me but if you ever come to the Goblin Server or I see u in a duty then u got a friend in me and I wish u well on your time in FFXIV.

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Originally Posted by WoW

And here you have proven how bad your reasoning skills are. According to you, I speak for myself. You don’t speak for me. And I stated I’m not a troll, yet you call me a troll. So either you have no idea what you’re talking about, or you know I’m right and have been denying it all along because of your jealousy.

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I know Im not jealous of Asmon or Bitter about anything. But your desperate to tell me I am.

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Originally Posted by Puremallace

I have a feeling he is going to listen to some of the people and just boost to Shadowbringers.

I just get the feeling he is going to boost maybe like some of the style then spend the next 10 years talking about how horrible the game is to a very large audience because some people never bothered to pay attention in ARR.

I really do like that SQUARE ENIX responded to him on Twitter and welcome him to FF14

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I don't know where you're getting that feeling from. He has explicitly stated that he does not want to boost and intends to play the game all the way through from beginning to end "without malding over it."