Roleplay/Partyfinder Discrepancies & Policy Enforcement by GM's

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Originally Posted by Taytay

Honestly, if SE just wrote a cut and dry ToS that couldn't be interpreted in 20 different ways, we wouldn't even need to see the GM policy.

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I mean, if the two were different, we’d ABSOLUTELY need to see their policy, still.

“Hey, you’re banned. What you did is against the rules.”
“What? It’s not even mentioned in the rules!”
“It is in the rules that I can see but you can’t.”
“Okay, but why?”
“┐(￣～￣)┌”

i mean if they made actual fun and engaging content people wouldnt have to roleplay they could just do content.

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Originally Posted by van_arn

We can nuke the brothels in the T rated game though. Or, more accurately, send them deep underground.

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The Sims is a T Rated game on ALL platforms (besides handheld) and it has VERY sexually explicit content that is implied but heavily shown and encouraged. Also, if you look at the game box for the ESRB rating, there is a little text that says that the ESRB cannot rate Online Interactions

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Originally Posted by Gojin

i mean if they made actual fun and engaging content people wouldnt have to roleplay they could just do content.

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This is a horrendous take that has nothing to do with the post at hand. People can RP and still enjoy the content.

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Originally Posted by Skyler_Magus

I mean, if the two were different, we’d ABSOLUTELY need to see their policy, still.

“Hey, you’re banned. What you did is against the rules.”
“What? It’s not even mentioned in the rules!”
“It is in the rules that I can see but you can’t.”
“Okay, but why?”
“┐(￣～￣)┌”

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That really defeats the purpose of a cut and dry ToS.

The whole point of a cut and dry ToS is that there is no room for interpretation and the ambiguity is gone. If Section 6, rule 3a of the ToS states "If you are caught using ACT, you face the punishment of being banned" and then a GM catches you for using ACT and lets you know that you were in violation of Section 6, rule 3a, then there is literally nothing ambiguous about that.

A cut and dry ToS gives GMs a handbook on how to operate and leaves out the whole emotional aspect that clearly at least one GM is acting out on.

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Originally Posted by RanRanTheCat

Oooh, spicy. I would, mind you, point out that my posts, excluding this pointless squabble with you, that you started, and you refuse to finish, all had a direction, and all had a certain purpose to them. Validity of that direction and purpose is up for debate, and oh look - that is exactly what happened. A debate. Healthy one, mind you, with over half of commentators being reasonable!
And then there is you. I say if any posts belong in these 40 posts of rubbish - it is these micro-squabbles you start with others for no other reason then to just fill space. Go run Void ark or something, be productive.

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Dude, you literally created an account to post in this very thread to tell the world how annoyed you are with roleplayers.

Take your own advice.

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Originally Posted by Taytay

That really defeats the purpose of a cut and dry ToS.

The whole point of a cut and dry ToS is that there is no room for interpretation and the ambiguity is gone. If Section 6, rule 3a of the ToS states "If you are caught using ACT, you face the punishment of being banned" and then a GM catches you for using ACT and lets you know that you were in violation of Section 6, rule 3a, then there is literally nothing ambiguous about that.

A cut and dry ToS gives GMs a handbook on how to operate and leaves out the whole emotional aspect that clearly at least one GM is acting out on.

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Oh, I agree. It’s just that ALL rules need to be made readily available to both parties.

What's funny is that, looking at the official TOS on their website there is nothing, at all, telling about the use of Party Finder. There are very vague lists of "prohibited behavior" but none of them specifically say that using the party finder to advertise anything but Duty content is a bannable offense. Looking at it though, the listings for a Bannable offense are truly vague and really need to be reworded.

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Originally Posted by Taytay

And that sets your "but think of the children" argument on fire and tosses it out the window.

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Not really? What Square has put in the game is within the limits of their rating. They’ve been very careful to toe the line, going as far as to redesign a pillar of content (gold saucer) around those limitations.

Square can do things players can’t. Actually, players can only do what Square permits, and it seems they’ve become impatient again with erp— just like they’ve been in the past with instances of banning certain modded screenshots.

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Originally Posted by van_arn

Not really? What Square has put in the game is within the limits of their rating. They’ve been very careful to toe the line, going as far as to redesign a pillar of content (gold saucer) around those limitations.

Square can do things players can’t. Actually, players can only do what Square permits, and it seems they’ve become impatient again with erp— just like they’ve been in the past with instances of banning certain modded screenshots.

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Erp PFs =/= RP PFs. Two separate things, Stop joining them.

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Originally Posted by Taytay

That really defeats the purpose of a cut and dry ToS.

The whole point of a cut and dry ToS is that there is no room for interpretation and the ambiguity is gone. If Section 6, rule 3a of the ToS states "If you are caught using ACT, you face the punishment of being banned" and then a GM catches you for using ACT and lets you know that you were in violation of Section 6, rule 3a, then there is literally nothing ambiguous about that.

A cut and dry ToS gives GMs a handbook on how to operate and leaves out the whole emotional aspect that clearly at least one GM is acting out on.

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For what it's worth, sometimes you absolutely need a "we can get rid of you for any reason at our sole discretion" rule. I run a fairly large community discord and I recently had to permaban someone who, while not strictly in violation of any of our explicitly cut-and-dry rules, had been reported (with concrete proof) by several community members of harassment off-server, etc. to the point that my mods and I agreed that unilaterally banning them was for the betterment of the community as a whole.

It's something that should not be used flippantly and absolutely NOT relevant for this situation, but I just wanted to gently point of order this as someone who's been on the other side of that screen.

Also, I fully agree that the rules should be transparent to everyone involved. The notion that a GM could have a codified list of infractions that players are not aware of is some seriously WTF-level nonsense.

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Originally Posted by KinDranex

Erp PFs =/= RP PFs. Two separate things, Stop joining them.

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I'm sure he is just some SE bootlicker with a purist mind set against roleplay because "I don't understand it" or "It grosses me out" or "I don't agree with it" That is the same kind of mindset that turns people into R*cists and H*m*ph*bes.

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Originally Posted by Taytay

Dude, you literally created an account to post in this very thread to tell the world how annoyed you are with roleplayers.

Take your own advice.

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Excuse you, i mentioned numerously. At least 3 times did i mention that i have nothing against RP'ers. All i said was that i do not like people flooding the Party finder, and had a reasonable discussion there, and was proven wrong, and moved forward to something this thread should have been about.
Then there is you.

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Originally Posted by FelisDarwin

Still waiting for you to quote the section of the ToS that supposedly says how Party Finder can and cannot be used, like you said it did.

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It doesn't exist, nor does the specific FAQ that the GM quoted as being violated address the use of the PF in this manner.

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

The best part about that old chatlog is that it's fake. It's shrunk down to one line over the years because the long-form version of it is incredibly poorly constructed, and the language in it is bizarre to anyone whose interacted with GMs in this game. Not to mention all the bizarre compression artifacts that are in perfect rectangles around many of the lines of text.

Here's the current snippet of it that's been circulating, run through a piece of software that increases contrast between areas of different compression.
https://i.imgur.com/iNxXARc.png

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Please produce any written documentation from Squenix prior to this event saying that ERP was not allowed.

Until you do, there is nothing to indicate the screenshot is inaccurate, much less "faked".

Also get better at lying.

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Originally Posted by Malzian

It doesn't exist, nor does the specific FAQ that the GM quoted as being violated address the use of the PF in this manner.

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Shhhh, I'm trying to make them say it.

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

The best part about that old chatlog is that it's fake. It's shrunk down to one line over the years because the long-form version of it is incredibly poorly constructed, and the language in it is bizarre to anyone whose interacted with GMs in this game. Not to mention all the bizarre compression artifacts that are in perfect rectangles around many of the lines of text.

Here's the current snippet of it that's been circulating, run through a piece of software that increases contrast between areas of different compression.
https://i.imgur.com/iNxXARc.png

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All this "evidence" does is imply is its heavily compressed lol

I knew a player who would only talk in discord and never chatted/emoted in game since they had a few strikes and were terrified to lose their account.

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Originally Posted by FelisDarwin

Please produce any written documentation from Squenix prior to this event saying that ERP was not allowed.

Until you do, there is nothing to indicate the screenshot is inaccurate, much less "faked".

Also get better at lying.

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This is as close as you'll get, which while not explicitly saying ERP isn't allowed heavily implies that it's not: "3.3 Profanity and Offensive Language. You may not use profanity or any language that a reasonable person would find offensive. The Game is for players aged 13 and older. You agree to behave accordingly."

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Originally Posted by FelisDarwin

Shhhh, I'm trying to make them say it.

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>.>... "Blood from a stone."

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Originally Posted by FelisDarwin

Please produce any written documentation from Squenix prior to this event saying that ERP was not allowed.

Until you do, there is nothing to indicate the screenshot is inaccurate, much less "faked".

Also get better at lying.

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I pose you this. How can you possibly effectively ERP without violating section 3.3 of the ToS? Is everyone who is ERPing somehow doing so in perfect innuendo so as to avoid violating section 3.3?

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Originally Posted by KinDranex

All this "evidence" does is imply is its heavily compressed lol

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The extremely stark separation in compression levels between the background and text indicate the text was added from a separate source.

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Originally Posted by Aniya_Estlihn

Sturm, you really need to just stop. There is nothing odd about it when Yoshi P himself has said RP and ERP; between two consenting parties done in private, is fine. He's the literal director of the blasted game itself, if anyone knows what the dev team wants it's him. He said this at a FANFEST in front of a LIVE audience, no less. He's even stated that people advertising RP events in PF is ok during Q&A events, this is just a GM not understanding ToS.

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But mooooooom, it's icky. Dragon girls have coooooooooties. /s

It's pretty troubling to see so many posters try to find reasons as to why erotic role-play should be allowed instead of erring on the side of caution, taking a step back and considering that maybe such things aren't appropriate for a game that is known to be home to a lot of underage, easily led and vulnerable players.

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

I pose you this. How can you possibly effectively ERP without violating section 3.3 of the ToS? Is everyone who is ERPing somehow doing so in perfect innuendo so as to avoid violating section 3.3?

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By doing it in PM's

Which the vast majority are doing.

Be actually honest, how often do you see people publicly doing smut that isn't just trolling for attention? Because I can tell you, in my years of playing this game, I have seen it... One, and it was still somewhere more obscure anyways.

If people are publicly smutting, then yes, it'd violate 3.3. But if they aren't, and as I said vast majority are not, then they aren't violating 3.3 at all.

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And the continue since smooth brain just re-awoke and didn't put this...

These are not all erp related for the punishment. Even keep in mind, the GM stated advertising AT ALL is why, the type of content mentioned doesn't matter if it isn't content Square specifically created, according to the GM in the images. You can get the same smack for having one up for a coffee shop.

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

I pose you this. How can you possibly effectively ERP without violating section 3.3 of the ToS? Is everyone who is ERPing somehow doing so in perfect innuendo so as to avoid violating section 3.3?

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If you have to use four-letter words to engage in pixel boom-boom that's more of a problem with your imagination.

Still not seeing any statements from Squenix explicitly banning ERP. Still no proof that the screenshot of a GM explicitly endorsing it isn't real, nevermind Yoshi-P saying it was okay in that Kotaku interview.

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

I pose you this. How can you possibly effectively ERP without violating section 3.3 of the ToS? Is everyone who is ERPing somehow doing so in perfect innuendo so as to avoid violating section 3.3?

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Give us the screenshots of all the public ERP you've seen over the years.

Because, I mean, you're asking about whether all those supposedly filthy sexually deviant ERPers are doing it in perfect innuendo, right, which would presumably mean you haven't actually run into them frequently enough for them to be an actual problem to you personally. Which is why you're demanding somebody else provide evidence of ERP even existing in a space where it would need to be reported for a violation of 3.3

Pick one:

- ERPers are actually doing their thing in the privacy of things like FC apartment rooms, where they are not bothering anybody in a public space, which would explain why you're demanding somebody else provide proof that it happens in a public space where it would need to be reported

- ERPers are the big threat to the precious eyes of innocent children and it's utterly impossible they can exist anywhere in this game because the second they post a Naughty Word it would obviously be in game and therefore the Magic Anti-Sex Roleplay Fairy crashes their party and reports them for 3.3 violations because it is simply not possible these people exist outside of a public space.

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

I pose you this. How can you possibly effectively ERP without violating section 3.3 of the ToS? Is everyone who is ERPing somehow doing so in perfect innuendo so as to avoid violating section 3.3?

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Or, you know, not everybody in FFXIV is a single braincell and advertises on discord servers, their twitter page, etc.

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Originally Posted by FelisDarwin

So to recap, LittleImp was lying when he said the screenshot was faked, and is in fact a liar.

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**Phoenix Wright Music intensifies**

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

I never said such a thing

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You literally did right here.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

I am quite concerned with a lot of the flak this GM is getting for just doing their job. All they are doing is enforcing the ToS, and, for the most part, just giving warnings. Acting on legitimate reports. Letting people know the PF isn't for advertising "venues" in general, it's for running content.

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You state the GM is "[just] enforcing the ToS". You continue to state they are "letting people know PF isn't for advertising venues".

By every bit of human logic that exists, this correlates that the ToS has a provision stating that Party Finder is not for advertising venues - otherwise, the GM is acting upon something that is not in the Terms of Service and that needs to be clarified by Square-Enix.

So put up, or shut up.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

I never said such a thing, in fact I think this is the first time I have replied to you. Who are you again? :confused:

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Ahem:

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

I am quite concerned with a lot of the flak this GM is getting for just doing their job. All they are doing is enforcing the ToS, and, for the most part, just giving warnings. Acting on legitimate reports. Letting people know the PF isn't for advertising "venues" in general, it's for running content.

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Lie better.

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Originally Posted by van_arn

Perhaps if I could personally call forth an erp calamity for the glory of Lord Zodiark I’d happily do so, but this is the next best thing.

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It's called Balmung.

But so far it's turning out to be a bit like the Void... maybe when the dimensional barriers come down with DC visits it'll yield its existence for His return.

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

As far as I am aware, from the screenshots in the OP, these players received a verbal warning. All the GM was doing was informing players that the PF is for running content, and not social "venues" such as this. Furthermore, they suggested using fellowships as a more proper place.

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◆ Warning
"Warning" is a penalty applied for minor violations for which a more severe penalty than a Caution is required. As with a Caution, depending on the nature of the violation, an instruction for improvement may be given with regard to the violation. Please follow any instructions.

All actions taken against a service account are recorded permanently. In the event of a player committing multiple violations, the previous violations and service account actions are taken into account.

https://support.na.square-enix.com/f...kid=68098&la=1

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Originally Posted by FelisDarwin

...pixel boom-boom...

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PIXEL BOOM BOOM STAAAAHP

https://eu.finalfantasyxiv.com/lodes.../blog/4680978/

I took the time to sum up my thoughts and feelings on the matter. There was so much though that I could not fit it into a forum post, so instead, I wrote a blog.

To summarise:

• There is a vast amount of (very undeserving in a lot of cases) prejudice towards roleplayers in FFXIV, and it is something that honestly needs to be addressed as best as possible.
• There appears to be significant inconsistency about the way that some of the GMs have handled things, and it is something that needs to be reviewed and addressed for the benefit of everyone involved.
• The methods of promotion for RP in-game are not sufficient and out-of-game cannot always be counted on as it isn’t always easy to find. We need a better solution.

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Originally Posted by Bellsong

We get it, an RP'er deeply hurt you somehow and you never quite got over it lmao

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That's what I've been wondering, if these people who are really upset at RPers got their catgirl GF stolen by a Hroghtar or something.

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Originally Posted by Jijifli

By doing it in PM's

Which the vast majority are doing.

Be actually honest, how often do you see people publicly doing smut that isn't just trolling for attention? Because I can tell you, in my years of playing this game, I have seen it... One, and it was still somewhere more obscure anyways.

If people are publicly smutting, then yes, it'd violate 3.3. But if they aren't, and as I said vast majority are not, then they aren't violating 3.3 at all.

Edit:

And the continue since smooth brain just re-awoke and didn't put this...

These are not all erp related for the punishment. Even keep in mind, the GM stated advertising AT ALL is why, the type of content mentioned doesn't matter if it isn't content Square specifically created, according to the GM in the images. You can get the same smack for having one up for a coffee shop.

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These policies specifically apply to all chat channels, PMs included.

"Offensive expressions are prohibited in all places where expressions can be made in Final Fantasy XIV, including chat (including Quick Chat and Emote), markers, comments and names. Use of an offensive expression in the form of a character name is also regarded as nuisance behaviour."

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

You're genuinely ill and need to get help.

I said the post that is circulating was reduced in size over the years because that version they dug up is harder to believe.
Here's the same process on that image lmao.

https://i.imgur.com/s7ZSyHN.png

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Calling someone ill, eh? Anyway, learn how Jpeg artifacting works lmao

All those run sellers and all the accounts in their group should be perm banned with their garbage at top of the pt finder. They disrupt the pt finder lot more then stuff in other tab ever could. Abusing the pt finder to sell runs to make their post be at the top so its always in your face when you open pt finder is lot more annoying and disruptive then anything about rping or in the other tab.

Plus the game would be better without those run sellers anyways they abuse the system far more then anyone else. Pt finder was not made for advertising rmt by using wrong category to make it be at the top. There should be zero tolerance for those run sellers they aren't even putting their ads in the right category.

Rp stuff is almost always at the bottom and last on the list so its very rarely in way of any content that is marked with right tab. Unlike those run sellers that you see their ads right when you open pt finder the rp stuff is normally not there in your face when you open it. There is a lot of people that enjoy rping so let them do as they please its not like they are doing it in front of you or in your face. While those garbage run seller ads are in your face anytime you want to open the pt finder.

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

These policies specifically apply to all chat channels, PMs included.

"Offensive expressions are prohibited in all places where expressions can be made in Final Fantasy XIV, including chat (including Quick Chat and Emote), markers, comments and names. Use of an offensive expression in the form of a character name is also regarded as nuisance behaviour."

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If two people have consented to ERP in PMs with one another, then they aren't going to report one another for the supposed 3.3 ToS violations you absolutely insist they're making.

You're also broadly interpreting "chat" to mean "every single chat mode that has ever existed" but if that's the case: have you ever been in an FC? Did anybody in that FC ever swear? And did you do your Good Citizen Duty and report your FC mate for breaching 3.3 because of their foul language? (If you answer no to this question, you're a hypocrite.)

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Originally Posted by KinDranex

Calling someone ill, eh? Anyway, learn how Jpeg artifacting works lmao

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No, no you see there's just no way that a jpg screenshot of an mp4 video capture could possibly have multiple types of compression artifacts. Literally impossible. Clearly everything in it is fake. Even the game is fake! People say they play FFXIV but every screenshot I see has compression artifacts! Can't be real!

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

These policies specifically apply to all chat channels, PMs included.

"Offensive expressions are prohibited in all places where expressions can be made in Final Fantasy XIV, including chat (including Quick Chat and Emote), markers, comments and names. Use of an offensive expression in the form of a character name is also regarded as nuisance behaviour."

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So if two people are pming something that both are okay with, you still want action taken despite 0 people being affected in that way shape or form? And you want all forms of rp, not just private erp, to go away because of that?

I mean, you said so yourself...

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Originally Posted by LittleImp

You're genuinely ill and need to get help.

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