Yoshi P to Mr.Happy "Heal DPS is not mandatory and no expectation for Healer to DPS!"

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Originally Posted by Stormbad

No, what he is saying is use up the 90-120 duty time limit, it's all yours.

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If it takes that long without a healer DPSing then I'm sorry but your DPS is bad :D

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Originally Posted by Fyce

http://i.imgur.com/WBVNbFF.jpg

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This is beautiful. Did you make it?

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Originally Posted by Chukkaque

well the majority of the player base plays the game casually and isn't interested in maximizing damage. So yeah, making it through content and playing occasional is good enough for them, and a lot of players. No one died, hurray! I think some of you guys are taking it way to seriously. I mean, enjoy the game however you like, but dont bring down other players for playing how they like.

If you don't like randoms in DF, form your own party.

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So what you are telling me is, they can't bring me down for pulling EVERYTHING, kitchen sink included, as a tank and make it more difficult for the healer to keep me alive as I will be taking more damage, as that is how I like to play as a tank. Like by that logic, if we can't complain about healers not doing DPS, they can't complain when a tank just pulls everything and tanks it all at once and forces the healer to maintain a constant healing up time to keep the tank alive, and that if they don't like it they should form their own party.

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Originally Posted by TamurilRains

So a healer is expected to not only heal the DPS who stand in crap they shouldn't be standing in, but also to deal damage in order to make up for the lack of DPS those people are essentially not producing?

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I expect healers to do something with most of their gcd's, same as I would a dps or tank. This claim that healing is all the work a healer needs to do is spurious because it can require so little of your actual attention depending on what content you are doing.

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Originally Posted by TheRealMadruck

Yup, if the healer is keeping you alive then they are doing their job. That is factual game design even if you do not like it. As I have stated to everyone, try to get employed at SE and change FF14 for healers to dps as mandatory. Til then....nothing more needs to be said.

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This sounds like a group project in highschool.
There's 4 students, one jumps up and says, "I wanna be the ideas person!!" The rest of the group sort of sighs and says ok.
The project starts, the ideas person does in fact come up with ideas, awesome. Work on the project starts, the ideas person is now on their phone. When asked why they aren't helping. "I come up with ideas! You guys do the rest! I only wanted to do ideas! Don't tell me what to do!!"

"Just healing" doesn't require full-time attention/effort in equivalence to tanking or dpsing properly. You have a right to be lazy, sure. Others have a right to call you out on it and potentially kick you if they want.

I personally don't even care in roulettes, but I'll continue to DPS as a healer myself, because I try to be considerate of others.

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Originally Posted by TamurilRains

If it takes that long without a healer DPSing then I'm sorry but your DPS is bad :D

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LOL this is fun but true

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Originally Posted by Chukkaque

If you don't like randoms in DF, form your own party.

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I hate this argument.

It isn't about having an issue with random people, it's about having an issue with lazy people.

Moreover, the argument can go both ways. Want to have your own long expert roulette filled with people playing sub-optimally? Form your own party.

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Originally Posted by Fyce

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Lol, it was pretty amusing.

PotD, however, is a completely different ballpark. You don't que as a role for it. Therefore tanking and healing literally don't matter. It would be more accurate to say PotD is basically like grouping with 3 others in open world (that place those healer damage spells were designed for ^_~). You might try to help keep each other alive but, you really don't have to. I treat it as if I'm solo personally. There just happen to be 3 others nearby working towards the same thing lol.

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Originally Posted by Arkdra

I expect healers to do something with most of their gcd's, same as I would a dps or tank. This claim that healing is all the work a healer needs to do is spurious because it can require so little of your actual attention depending on what content you are doing.

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And here we go "it depends on the content" thanks so much for saying that! So now we have established that a healer DPSing is only circumstantial, what if said content is too much for the healer to cleric stance swap and they feel more comfortable healing? Seriously folks, this whole thing can be easily fixed. Make your own group and don't use the DF if you're going to be so picky about how others play!

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Originally Posted by kattzkitti

Just because you have healer jobs leveled, that doesn't make you a healer. Anyone who advocates healer dps being mandatory is no healer, period. You might mostly play on healer jobs, but you're a DPS player because you can't think of anything other than min/maxing DPS and shoving your demands on others.

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Because someone has a different mindset to you, you are just going to ignore the literal facts, If I queue as a healer I am a healer, mindset has nothing to do with what ROLE I perform within the party, and people advocating healer DPS isn't about being a healer or DPS in the way you play it's about people being lazy, if you are not always casting you are not always contributing (no fight in this entire game requires you to back to back healer for every global cooldown) and if you are not always contributing you are not equal to the 3/7 other party members.

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Originally Posted by TamurilRains

And here we go "it depends on the content" thanks so much for saying that! So now we have established that a healer DPSing is only circumstantial, what if said content is too much for the healer to cleric stance swap and they feel more comfortable healing? Seriously folks, this whole thing can be easily fixed. Make your own group and don't use the DF if you're going to be so picky about how others play!

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They are removing the requirement to have cleric stance active to be able to DPS, you will be able to do DPS and heal with no problems come storm blood, they are making quality of life changes so people CAN be more comfortable.
That being said in any circumstance trying it is the only way to actually get comfortable and if you resign yourself to never trying you are doing the other people you are playing with a diservice by not trying to give all you can.

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Originally Posted by kattzkitti

Just ugh.

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If you have a job to 60, I expect you to have at least a rudimentary understanding of it, yes.

I don't main healing jobs personally, but when I switch to healer I become - you guessed it - a healer!

You seem to be conflating your opinion with gospel truth with such statements as, "Anyone who advocates healer dps being mandatory is no healer, period."

I've said it at least 6724 times - I don't consider DPS on healer to be mandatory. I consider using more than half of your ass in a group activity to be mandatory. If you are in a dungeon and doing nothing between heals you are playing sub-optimally, "period."

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Originally Posted by TamurilRains

And here we go "it depends on the content" thanks so much for saying that! So now we have established that a healer DPSing is only circumstantial, what if said content is too much for the healer to cleric stance swap and they feel more comfortable healing? Seriously folks, this whole thing can be easily fixed. Make your own group and don't use the DF if you're going to be so picky about how others play!

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Well, depends on content means I cut healers a lot of slack in content I haven't personally healed in because I don't have a basis for true judgement and I cut them 0 slack in content that I have healed in. So far the content that I've personally healed in all had room for dps, even when I get utterly terrible dps or tanks.

More to the point, why is it that I have to be the one to make a group? Make your own sloggy pos group if that's the experience you are after.

Healing not dpsing is like tank not using maim combo.

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Originally Posted by TamurilRains

And here we go "it depends on the content" thanks so much for saying that! So now we have established that a healer DPSing is only circumstantial, what if said content is too much for the healer to cleric stance swap and they feel more comfortable healing? Seriously folks, this whole thing can be easily fixed. Make your own group and don't use the DF if you're going to be so picky about how others play!

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Again, like I how I replied to Chukkaque:

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Originally Posted by Yahallo

So what you are telling me is, they can't bring me down for pulling EVERYTHING, kitchen sink included, as a tank and make it more difficult for the healer to keep me alive as I will be taking more damage, as that is how I like to play as a tank. Like by that logic, if we can't complain about healers not doing DPS, they can't complain when a tank just pulls everything and tanks it all at once and forces the healer to maintain a constant healing up time to keep the tank alive, and that if they don't like it they should form their own party.

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If healers can choose to not DPS as that is the play style they legitimately enjoy; I can, as a tank, choose to pull everything as that is the play style I legitimately enjoy right? I am doing my job by tanking things and maintaining aggro.

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Originally Posted by Arkdra

Well, depends on content means I cut healers a lot of slack in content I haven't personally healed in because I don't have a basis for true judgement and I cut them 0 slack in content that I have healed in. So far the content that I've personally healed in all had room for dps, even when I get utterly terrible dps or tanks.

More to the point, why is it that I have to be the one to make a group? Make your own sloggy pos group if that's the experience you are after.

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Because I don't mind playing with impatient people like you, or people who take their time. However you seem to care so much about how others play as if your very life depends on it, if you don't like it then don't gamble? The tool is there to fix your problem, not my fault if you insist on not using it and still try to force your style onto others.

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Originally Posted by missybee

Moreover, the argument can go both ways. Want to have your own long expert roulette filled with people playing sub-optimally? Form your own party.

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Except it doesn't. When you hit the queue up button in Duty Finder without a full premade group, you implicitly agree to the condition that you accept randoms and their playstyles into your duty. Period.

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Originally Posted by Yahallo

Except it is a rather common strategy to pull everything and then AoE them to oblivion to speed up runs. I am playing the game for what it is. Even right now in dungeons, I do mass pulls. Why? Because I legitimately enjoy it, it's my preferred play style as a tank, and it is more efficient. With the former two reasons being the main argument for Healers only healing. There's no difference other than I have the added reason of wanting to be efficient.

My comment was to show how easy it is to reverse the logic behind so many of these Healers only heal arguments.

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Context and intent. Learn what these are, and then go back and re-read your post.

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Originally Posted by Chukkaque

If you don't like randoms in DF, form your own party.

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The reverse can also be said: IF you don't like randoms expecting more out of you in DF, form your own party

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Originally Posted by TamurilRains

Let me put it to you this way, if DPS players were even capable of healing in a small way, would they be expected to heal others as well as deal damage? I highly doubt it.

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This shows how ignorant you are. If the heals or utilities come at no dps loss for them, yes they are indeed expected to use it. Dps using second wind can be the difference between 1 heal vs 0 heal needed. To expand further, blm using apoc on tanks, smn using virus when sch's is on cd, mnk using mantra, nin using goad/shade/smoke. These utilities don't really belong to their "core" role (dealing damage), but that's one place where the difference between good players and average/bad players can be found.

I'm sure if you ask Yoshi if nin are expected to help tanks with aggro control so they don't have to use tank stance, he'd also say no lol. I don't really care what he thinks we should do, I care about what we can do, and that's where I'll base my expectations on.

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Originally Posted by kattzkitti

you implicitly agree to the condition that you accept randoms and their playstyles into your duty. Period.

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So you are failing to see that can go both ways?

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Originally Posted by TamurilRains

Because I don't mind playing with impatient people like you, or people who take their time. However you seem to care so much about how others play as if your very life depends on it, if you don't like it then don't gamble? The tool is there to fix your problem, not my fault if you insist on not using it and still try to force your style onto others.

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Well the tool to fix the problem is to vote kick them, actually.

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Originally Posted by missybee

So you are failing to see that can go both ways?

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Why am I not surprised that you can't comprehend such a simple concept.

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Originally Posted by kattzkitti

Except it doesn't. When you hit the queue up button in Duty Finder without a full premade group, you implicitly agree to the condition that you accept randoms and their playstyles into your duty. Period.

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No you don't at all, I know you are not new to this forum and I know you have read other posts in this thread and seen the pictures. GM's have stated in game many times to players Being kicked for having a differing playstyle is 100% valid, So no clicking accept to the duty does not conform you to THEIR playstyle, YOU are agreeing to conform to the GROUPS playstyle not any ONE individual , and if ONE person say the HEALER doesn't want to do DPS when everyone else wants them to, bai bai healer because you are not contributing to the agreed strategy of the majority of your group.

http://s7.directupload.net/images/140813/h299ln6g.jpg

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Originally Posted by kattzkitti

Why am I not surprised that you can't comprehend such a simple concept.

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Probably because, for some reason, you have a 'holier than thou' opinion of yourself despite the fact that it seems 0% deserved.

Come on guys, Yoshi-P doesn't expect healers to dps doesn't mean you healers can't dps and you non-healers can't expect healers to dps. Yoshi-P doesn't pay our subs!

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Originally Posted by Alysrea

No you don't at all, I know you are not new to this forum and I know you have read other posts in this thread and seen the pictures. GM's have stated in game many times to players Being kicked for having a differing playstyle is 100% valid, So no clicking accept to the duty does not conform you to THEIR playstyle, YOU are agreeing to conform to the GROUPS playstyle not any ONE individual

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"Yoshi is fallible."
"You can't take what a dev says as gospel."

"This GM says differing playstyles is legitimate reason to kick, so anyone can be kicked anytime for any reason!"

I am amused. Please, continue perpetuating the DPS stereotype.

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Originally Posted by missybee

Probably because, for some reason, you have a 'holier than thou' opinion of yourself despite the fact that it seems 0% deserved.

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Personal attacks, the go-to action for someone who can't bring anything to the table.

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Originally Posted by kattzkitti

Except it doesn't. When you hit the queue up button in Duty Finder without a full premade group, you implicitly agree to the condition that you accept randoms and their playstyles into your duty. Period.

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I demand to see that contractual agreement. Show it to me.

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

I demand to see that contractual agreement. Show it to me.

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Implicitly. Learn the definition of the word and then re-read my post.

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Originally Posted by kattzkitti

Personal attacks, the go-to action for someone who can't bring anything to the table.

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Also kattzkitti:

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Originally Posted by kattzkitti

There's a difference between being an asshat, and playing the game for what it is: a video game.

You are being the former.

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Originally Posted by kattzkitti

Context and intent. Learn what these are, and then go back and re-read your post.

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Originally Posted by kattzkitti

Why am I not surprised that you can't comprehend such a simple concept.

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Originally Posted by kattzkitti

Implicitly. Learn the definition of the word and then re-read my post.

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Originally Posted by kattzkitti

I know common sense is a rare trait on the internet, but please, at least try to have some.

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Originally Posted by kattzkitti

This is the moment where you confirm that you are completely incapable of comprehending reality.

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Originally Posted by kattzkitti

"Yoshi is fallible."
"You can't take what a dev says as gospel."

"This GM says differing playstyles is legitimate reason to kick, so anyone can be kicked anytime for any reason!"

I am amused. Please, continue perpetuating the DPS stereotype.

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Why are you Quoting things i have never said like its an argument against my statement, My point isn't the opinions of the Development team its literal terms of services and rules of the Vote to kick function,
Fact I can kick you because of your individual playstyle choices, your previous statement about hitting accept is me agreeing to your playstyle is FALSE.
Accept your statement is wrong and a lie to push your own agenda and don't try to invalidate my FACTS by making this about "Perpetuating the dps stereotype"

I watched a dungeon boss fight for stormblood and the party took so little damage that one medica two and a few cures would have been enough for the whole fight. Now I hope it was undertuned just to showcase the new skills, but I kind of doubt it. I've said it millions of times; healing is extremely easy in this game. If the devs upped the amount of consistent damage, or nerfed healing skills, or both, we would barely see debates like this. Because then healers would be busy healing. It doesn't even need to be intense healing. Just consistent healing. People simply get upset when a healer does nothing for a decent chunk of a dungeon and I don't foresee that changing.

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Originally Posted by MomomiMomi

This is beautiful. Did you make it?

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I sure did.

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Originally Posted by Khaoticsuccubus

There just happen to be 3 others nearby working towards the same thing lol.

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That's ultimatly the same thing whenever you play with other people.
You all work towards a common goal. If someone isn't pulling their weight, then the others are in their rights to bring that up. It's then up to them to decide if they want to carry that player or if they want to get rid of him/her.
No amount of Yoshi-P quotes will change the fact that the community itself decides how to deal with that kind of behavior.

Besides, that's the same in a lot of games.
Take Overwatch for example. If you pick Ana, you have a sniper rifle that can heal your teammates, or deal damage to the enemy, depending who you are shooting.
Well, if your team doesn't need some heal and you can shoot a few rounds at baddies, then you'll probably do it, right? I mean, killing the other team is the common goal you share with your teammates.

If only people could understand that before being a "healer", or even a "support", they are a player trying to reach a common goal with their teammates, and thus should to what's in their reach to make sure everything goes the best way it can. And being a "pure healer" doesn't achieve that.

Being a bad player cannot make someone a good healer.

At least that's my take on it.

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Originally Posted by missybee

You LITERALLY went for the personal attack first by attempting to insult my intelligence. Are you for real right now?

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You actually expect me to take you seriously when you just keep repeating the same thing, worded a different way, as if that's a new response?

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Originally Posted by kattzkitti

You actually expect me to take you seriously when you just keep repeating the same thing, worded a different way, as if that's a new response?

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Your last argument was that if I decide to queue for an expert roulette, for instance, I am implicitly agreeing to be paired up with whatever randos get thrown at me. I 100% agree with that - that is true. I am not contractually obligated to stay with them for the entirety of a run, however.

When I say that "the reverse is also true," what I mean, for instance, is that I could queue up and get matched with three of the biggest elitists who will have different expectations of me and kick me as a result of not meeting them.

Frankly, I don't care whether you do or do not take me seriously. From your previous responses, it seemed like what I was saying wasn't making sense to you, so I am trying to word my arguments more carefully so that you maybe can consider entertaining an opposing viewpoint.

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Originally Posted by Chukkaque

I think some of you guys are taking it way to seriously.

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Well, no. What he's saying is that if you're doing the bare minimum, you don't really deserve any actual praise or qualify to call yourself "good" at something. Expecting otherwise is like if you were working in a kitchen with other people making a full-course meal and then going "Well, I washed the lettuce like I was told! Praise me, I'm good at my job!" despite other people doing all the other work because you didn't take the initiative to do anything outside of what Head Chef Bob told you to do (washing the lettuce) and instead interpreted the lack of further required tasks as "chill mode time".

I've no problem with people wanting to play super casually. Just be aware of where you actually are in terms of proficiency and don't get mad if people call you mediocre at your job.

If Yoshi P wants the community to be comfortable with healers who just heal he should tune content to require attentive healing. Otherwise people will expect DPS from all the unused healing GCDs. Alternately, make MP management severely limiting so healers have a firm choice between healing and damage.

I firmly prefer "healers only heal" in MMOs, but that requires challenging content.

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Originally Posted by aleph_null

Come on guys, Yoshi-P doesn't expect healers to dps doesn't mean you healers can't dps and you non-healers can't expect healers to dps. Yoshi-P doesn't pay our subs!

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It's not a matter of our ability to DPS, it a matter of other healer's DPSing and adding to the run.
Even if it wasn't his intention, he is giving people an excuse to do only the bare requirement of their job.
He's giving people an excuse to not have to contribute to the dungeon run 100% versus DPS or Tanks, who have are expected to.
He's giving people an excuse to emote spam and jump around, not contributing anything beyond the odd heal here-and-there.
Those of use who are annoyed with this are because he is giving people free reign to coast and, to a more horrible extent, be carried.

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Originally Posted by kattzkitti

Implicitly. Learn the definition of the word and then re-read my post.

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How can you say there such an agreement then if it is implied?
Someone could easily say that they did not get such an implication, which there wasn't one to begin with.

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Originally Posted by Alysrea

Why are you Quoting things i have never said like its an argument against my statement,

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Is your name attached to those quotes? No? I wonder why that is...

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Originally Posted by Alysrea

My point isn't the opinions of the Development team its literal terms of services and rules of the Vote to kick function,
Fact I can kick you because of your individual playstyle choices,

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http://i.imgur.com/Twj2yEg.jpg

You are factually wrong, period. Like, there isn't even a debate to be had here.

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Originally Posted by Mimilu

How can you say there such an agreement then if it is implied?
Someone could easily say that they did not get such an implication, which there wasn't one to begin with.

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I know common sense is a rare trait on the internet, but please, at least try to have some.

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Originally Posted by Arkdra

Well the tool to fix the problem is to vote kick them, actually.

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Thanks! I'll be sure to remember that next time I'm in a group with someone who whines about "dead weight" you know all that energy whining about other people's playstyles could be put to use actually doing your role, which of course is damage and a ninja no less....I rest my case. :D

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Originally Posted by HappyHubris

If Yoshi P wants the community to be comfortable with healers who just heal he should tune content to require attentive healing. Otherwise people will expect DPS from all the unused healing GCDs. Alternately, make MP management severely limiting so healers have a firm choice between healing and damage.

I firmly prefer "healers only heal" in MMOs, but that requires challenging content.

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I 100% am on board with this, I love content that requires a healer to Focus primarily on healing, I want healers to spend 100% of their time healing (or at least 80% healing and 20% individual fight mechanics) but this game just isn't in a state that requires that at the moment and why yes that is the fault of the developers that they haven't turned the game to give healers a more important focus on healing that does not validate a reason for them to be lazy and do nothing in between healing.