I chose BRD for swift gameplay, if I wanted to cast I would have chosen a Mage.

Huh a lot of the threads got deleted? *shrugs* Well keep at it bards.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wavaryen

Huh a lot of the threads got deleted? *shrugs* Well keep at it bards.

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Yes because Bard's are parroting the same thing for days on end, and it's spam and some of you Bard's go beyond and above then insult people.
All your talk should be placed here. They could at least merge posts but like I said...guys are saying the same things are are insulting others too much.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mhikail

Yes because Bard's are parroting the same thing for days on end, and it's spam and some of you Bard's go beyond and above then insult people.
All your talk should be placed here. They could at least merge posts but like I said...guys are saying the same things are are insulting others too much.

---

Most folks just want to be heard and see some results so they take to the forums, because the answers we have been given are not good enough, and the only way they'll see change is if they continue to voice their concerns.
That being said, coming in here to just tell Bards to get good or gtfo is not really a valid piece of feedback, nor is it polite, and that statement alone has caused tempers to flare and left bard's with valid concerns feeling insulted with no where else to voice their concerns.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Mhikail

Yes because Bard's are parroting the same thing for days on end, and it's spam and some of you Bard's go beyond and above then insult people.
All your talk should be placed here. They could at least merge posts but like I said...guys are saying the same things are are insulting others too much.

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I see it more on people telling others learn 2 play, and hating on people because they don't like the play style. Some of the threads are showing some posts developers made, asking what role bards are since they said one thing than another. I agree it is a endless cycle, but that is the nature of the beast.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Vespar

That being said, coming in here to just tell Bards to get good or gtfo is not really a valid piece of feedback, nor is it polite, and that statement alone has caused tempers to flare and left bard's with valid concerns feeling insulted with no where else to voice their concerns.

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To be fair, all this talk about Bards can get generally annoying especially when it's being bombarded almost everywhere. I don't blame anyone for getting annoyed by it. It does get kind of annoying at times. Nonetheless, there were a few instances where some players in this topic who act strongly against Minuet started insulting the other forum members. So you can't really say that it's one-sided and pretend like it never happened.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by AdamFyi

To be fair, all this talk about Bards can get generally annoying especially when it's being bombarded almost everywhere. I don't blame anyone for getting annoyed by it. It does get kind of annoying at times. Nonetheless, there were a few instances where some players in this topic who act strongly against Minuet started insulting the other forum members. So you can't really say that it's one-sided and pretend like it never happened.

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Personally, these people who find it annoying don't have to come in here and read these threads they can skip past it or ignore it. I do that with threads that dont apply to me....
The only thing I find annoying in these threads, is the ignorance of those who dont play the job telling everyone else to get over it. Thats about it.

I've played the Job all the way to 60 (and did Bismark EX briefly on it... i160 is definitely too low, but I was requested for the support) and have no issues with it. If a fight requires a lot of movement during a certain part, I turn it off. If there's no movement required at certain points, then I turn it on.
BRD will never be my main (unless I'm requested to play it), but I have played it enough to know the ins and outs (and it's why I get bothered when people say it plays out like a caster. Sure, you have a charge bar, but 1.2-5 seconds honestly isn't that big of a deal. Were it a full 2-2.5 second cast, then I'd agree that it's unacceptable).

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kaedan94

Unless you were a hyperactive rabbit, you shouldn't even really notice a difference.
. . .
Again, there really wasn't any playstyle change unless you constantly ran around like a hyperactive bunny for no real reason at all.

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What's wrong with running around? You mention it twice as if it's something negative. It's the same as getting annoyed by how others dress their character, which voice option they picked or other insignificant things. Why would it bother you so much?

I used to run around on my bard because it was fun and didn't lower my damage. This game is so bloody slooooooooow and booooooooooooooring if I just sit there watching the cast bar or cooldown take foreeeeeeever. This viewpoint is directly related to my gaming history. I also run around the target as a melee and as a summoner during Ruin II (whilst weaving oGCD), Bio and Miasma II. As a BLM I jump around during procs. I also do it as a healer when there's nothing to heal and I cba to dps. As a tank I jump in place and during the initial pulls I do 360 spins in the air while Flashing. You know what this requires of me? A little flinch of my finger on the keyboard. Calling it "hyperactive" really is the ultimate exaggeration, considering people are able to do it in games that have three times the tempo of this one.

INB4 "these kids nowadays have such a short attention span"
INB4 "jumping makes the player play poorly, like missing AAs or taking more damage"
INB4 "anyone who has that movement habits originating from fast games must be a kid because fast games are kids' games"
INB4 other projection of own poor skills or lack of experience of faster games

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

I think it's silly and immature, but it doesn't bother me.

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Hahahaha flicking a thumb off the space button is now immature. I actually chuckled irl :D.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nestama

snip

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It plays like a caster to people. Not sure why that bothers you. Caster bar=caster game play. It is also super clunky with procs.

The problem is that, they say Bard is a support dps. (yes they said it) Yet, outside of raids they don't get to use that strengths.
They said that they take a dps pen for being support. Yet, like above one part of the game, and don't get to use it in others.
Cast bar added even 1.5 seconds is still not a fun game play and it added nothing to the game play. Now we got another class, Mch that is almost the same type (support dps) but with tougher rotation. Why can't they have it and let bards have movement? it is all about play style.

List goes on, and all valid points.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Reinha

What's wrong with running around? ...

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Amen. This is the primary reason why Bard was my main until Ninja came out. I absolutely loved the mobility. It's still there to an extent, but Wanderer's Minuet gives nowhere near the same amount of freedom.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Reinha

What's wrong with running around? You mention it twice as if it's something negative. It's the same as getting annoyed by how others dress their character, which voice option they picked or other insignificant things. Why would it bother you so much?

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It doesn't bother me... Unless I'm healing and it's causing my casts to interrupt.

I think it's silly and immature, but it doesn't bother me.

Problem with running around is unless you have the enemy locked-on, your auto attacks aren't gonna hit it.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nestama

[...]
BRD will never be my main [...]

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That's the heart of the issue.
Main BRD players can't seem to be able to adapt themselves to that gameplay while alt BRD are completly fine with it if they ever tried healer/caster.

After testing it on another account, I'm even tempted to level my BRD to 60 just because of WM... which is the complete opposite of main BRD feelings on that matter.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

It doesn't bother me... Unless I'm healing and it's causing my casts to interrupt.

I think it's silly and immature, but it doesn't bother me.

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"If you do this, I have bad things to say about you... but it doesn't bother me!"

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Reinha

Snip

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Well said :3

But really I just think these people want no movement whatsoever, so let's all just stand in aoe's :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ThanMazus

"If you do this, I have bad things to say about you... but it doesn't bother me!"

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An action can be silly and immature but not bother someone. If I saw you walking down the street jumping and spinning 360s for no apparent reason, I would probably laugh, then assume something was wrong with you, but it wouldn't offend or bother me.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

An action can be silly and immature but not bother someone. If I saw you walking down the street jumping and spinning 360s for no apparent reason, I would probably laugh, then assume something was wrong with you, but it wouldn't offend or bother me.

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If it doesn't offend or bother you, why bother letting them know what you think of them? What does that accomplish, if not trying to modify the behavior? If you're truly unbothered by it, why bring it up? Why insult the person?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by ThanMazus

If it doesn't offend or bother you, why bother letting them know what you think of them? What does that accomplish, if not trying to modify the behavior? If you're truly unbothered by it, why bring it up? Why insult the person?

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Because they asked me what I think. And as I said, it does bother me in situations where I'm healing and their hyperactive tendencies cause my spells to interrupt, failing to heal them.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Reinha

INB4 jumping makes the player play poorly, like missing AAs or taking more damage

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In short terms, you would rather have bad gameplay habits than being forced to stay put, otherwise you would find the game "so bloody slooooooooow and booooooooooooooring"?

Can I ask why do you even play this game if jumping around is the only thing that keeps you awake?
... Or is your name Barry Allen? Do you have Sonic the Hedgehog posters all over your room and your motto is "gotta go fast?"

Oh man, I have so many questions now.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

It doesn't bother me... Unless I'm healing and it's causing my casts to interrupt.

I think it's silly and immature, but it doesn't bother me.

---

I'm a little confused by this statement, unless they changed something in 3.0 that I'm not aware of your heals aren't affected by the position of your targets. I can have someone running circles around me and my heals will still go off so long as they are within range of the cast. I'm guessing you mean if they run out of range of the heal and cause the interrupt which can be annoying ya, but that could be a potential problem for any class that's moving for one reason or another, whether to dodge an AoE or pre-emptively get ready for a mechanic. When healing your placement is simply another tactic used to control the flow of things, if I know people are gonna be moving a lot I work myself into a spot where I can reach people and get off AoE heals. Only place this could ever be a problem is in 24 man raids when your group has designated quadrants and someone is on the other side of the map for God knows what reason lol, in which case I tell em to get their rear to the group area or bring them back when I raise their corpse. @3@

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Nixxa

I'm a little confused by this statement, unless they changed something in 3.0 that I'm not aware of your heals aren't affected by the position of your targets. I can have someone running circles around me and my heals will still go off so long as they are within range of the cast. I'm guessing you mean if they run out of range of the heal and cause the interrupt which can be annoying ya, but that could be a potential problem for any class that's moving for one reason or another, whether to dodge an AoE or pre-emptively get ready for a mechanic. When healing your placement is simply another tactic used to control the flow of things, if I know people are gonna be moving a lot I work myself into a spot where I can reach people and get off AoE heals. Only place this could ever be a problem is in 24 man raids when your group has designated quadrants and someone is on the other side of the map for God knows what reason lol, in which case I tell em to get their rear to the group area or bring them back when I raise their corpse. @3@

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Range and line of sight. It's not as uncommon as you think with those silly headless chicken BRDs.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

An action can be silly and immature but not bother someone. If I saw you walking down the street jumping and spinning 360s for no apparent reason, I would probably laugh, then assume something was wrong with you, but it wouldn't offend or bother me.

---

People, you heard it. Better stop jumping because it's not what mature people do whilst fighting dragons on the streets! :D

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fyce

In short terms, you would rather have bad gameplay habits than being forced to stay put, otherwise you would find the game "so bloody slooooooooow and booooooooooooooring"?

Can I ask why do you even play this game if jumping around is the only thing that keeps you awake?
... Or is your name Barry Allen? Do you have Sonic the Hedgehog posters all over your room and your motto is "gotta go fast?"

Oh man, I have so many questions now.

---

First of all, nothing about moving when there's time to move is a bad gameplay habit. In this game it's very easy to do whilst executing a rotation, considering it's a whopping 2.5 second window during an instant cast. In some games moving is vital for survival. For example, you know, any fast paced pvp game. If you claim that it causes people to play poorly, then I'm sorry to say, but that's just you projecting your own inability to judge situations and multitask onto others. Plenty of players can move and jump around occasionally while doing their rotation perfectly. Secondly, no one will ever force me to what I don't want to do in a game I'm paying to access. So the notion of being forced to stay put is a bit amusing to me. To answer your question though, yes, I'd rather keep my preferred playstyle than play something that bores me to the brink of sleep. If this game removes all instant casts and makes all classes so slow paced my granny could handle the rotations, I will be directing my monthly payments to another company.

Since you are so interested about my reasons for playing this game, I took the time to find my review on this game. I hope it answers all of your questions.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Reinha

Details, first impression: 9/10 Game starts a little slow but hooks you after a while. They have put a lot of attention to detail, especially NPC dialog.

Graphics: 7/10 The art style is amazing, but on the technical side the graphics are quite hard on the pc so I have to keep them low.

Questing: 10/10 Interesting story that actually gives you tangible rewards like new content and faster travel. Plenty of sidequests that also sometimes give nice rewards. The leve system is kind of like daily quests which you can store for later, so there's plenty to do even on alts. Having unique quests for each class is a big plus for me.

Classes: 7/10 Some of them are a bit slow especially during low levels. All of them are good at their role while also being distinct from other jobs. The armory system is nice for people who want to play only one character. Some jobs had some odd additions in Heavensward and that drops my rating a little.

Dungeons: 8/10 Level sync and roulettes ensure every dungeon stays relevant, this is really nice. Low level dungeons are done very well because they get gradually harder and can't be mass pulled from start to finish. Level 50 ones are too easy because the item level sync is too high. Some dungeons have annoying gimmicks like cannons, which I personally don't like. I want to play my character and not a vehicle. :P

Raiding: ?/10 Haven't tried.

Music: 8/10 Battle music should be able to be toggled imo. Some tracks are a bit simple but most of them are good and do put you in a certain mood that suits the area. Heavensward did music better than ARR.

Crafting, gathering: 10/10 You need a combination of luck, knowledge of rotations, gear and patience. It's challenging, time consuming and most importantly rewarding, and it also encourages exchanging things with other players with a different crafting focus. In other words it's a complete end game of it's own and is also completely optional. Perfect.

Flying implementation: 9/10 Good overall, but I wish they had added a different quest marker for the required side quests. I also wish you could fly straight up but I guess it's more realistic this way.

Community: 8/10 The in game community is very helpful and people usually take wipes and mistakes well. Can't really say anything about the raiding community. Commendations are a nice thing to have. Sometimes people are a bit quiet though, and there isn't really a continuing chat going on in cities. Linkshells are used for in game events on some servers, and there are some events on the forums too, for example Eorzea's next top model competition.

And to add a few things...
Glamour/mounts/pets/titles i.e. vanity stuff: 9/10 There are so many of them only after 2 years! It keeps collector people busy for a long time. However, there could be a bit more unique mounts instead of reskinned chocobos and ponies. Glamour restrictions (gender, armor type) could be less strict.

Housing: 4/10 Beautiful housing wards, so many furniture options and even gameplay (garden, chocobo stable). All of this is unreachable for the majority of the player base because it's not instanced. Quite a big disappointment in that sense. I hope that once I get enough gil for a big house they have added more wards.

Dailies, weeklies: 8/10 Beast tribes, roulettes, Cactpot, hunts, leves, GC turn-ins and challenge log all give nice rewards and combined they can fill up your play time quite well. They are mostly used for gearing and leveling up, and I hope they add more repeatable stuff for vanity in the future.

Overall rating: 8/10 Great game! Worthwhile money and time investment even though some small things could be improved a bit.

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Edit.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fyce

Okay, I'll rephrase.

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Sure, I'll rephrase too.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fyce

Jumping around not caring about the other's positions,

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Never said I don't care about others' positions, you are just projecting your own inability to do so whilst moving.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fyce

wasting MP casting Ruin II instead of Ruin I when possible,

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Read carefully, I said I use it when weaving ogcd. They have a short delay so if I need to use two in a row it's better to cast Ruin II and then utilize the gcd, instead of wasting the length of a gcd on ogcd abilities. Number 1 rule of dps: always be casting.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fyce

not DPSing as a healer when given the opportunity,

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When I cba means when it won't make a difference, for example the last moments of a trash pull or when melee is about to vaporize the boss with limit break.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fyce

moving around the boss dangerously and increase the risks of taking a cleave or missing an AA,

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Projecting again. Just because you're careless and might do those things, others won't necessarily.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fyce

doing 360-flash-noscope thingy and not positioning ourself well enough to get block and parry procs...

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Can't block them all anyway on the first couple of seconds on those certain pulls, where mobs come from every direction after you aggro one. Flash 1 just as they reach you (this is where you can do your dance moves), Flash 2 when you have moved so they are all on one side. It's all situational.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fyce

yeah, in 4-man dungeons, it's fine.

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Happy we agree! I hope you are not making assumptions of my play skills based on my achievements on this game, because that would be quite a superficial basis for judgement. Other raiding games with more fluid gameplay, less lag and similar mechanics exist you know. ;)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Fyce

FFXIV is not a PvP game however. It's a team-rope-jumping PvE game

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Oh I know. Nothing you've said so far points that a mobile playstyle of someone, who can tell the appropriate situations to move, would be a hindrance on the team. Especially on a class that was originally designed to be mobile. Your whole "bad play habit" argument is moot because a skilled player will never suffer for jumping around in this game.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

Range and line of sight. It's not as uncommon as you think with those silly headless chicken BRDs.

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Healing is omni-directional, you don't need to be facing them for the heal to go off. Unless they ran around the corner (which most, if not all boss encounters lack anyway)

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RiceisNice

Healing is omni-directional, you don't need to be facing them for the heal to go off. Unless they ran around the corner (which most, if not all boss encounters lack anyway)

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Range and line of sight have nothing to do with directional facing. I never said anything about facing because that doesn't matter to healers.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kaedan

Range and line of sight have nothing to do with directional facing. I never said anything about facing because that doesn't matter to healers.

---

Line of sight is a broad term, which can include where you're facing. (if you're not facing them for a weapon skill, you get the error "not within line of sight). Most of the time that I had LoS issues in healing is not usually on the bard (or any dps for that matter), but more on the tank because they never really clarify if they're gonna tank packs around the corner or bring em back out.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Reinha

First of all, nothing about moving when there's time to move is a bad gameplay habit. [...]

---

Okay, I'll rephrase.

Jumping around not caring about the other's positions, wasting MP casting Ruin II instead of Ruin I when possible, not DPSing as a healer when given the opportunity, moving around the boss dangerously and increase the risks of taking a cleave or missing an AA, doing 360-flash-noscope thingy and not positioning ourself well enough to get block and parry procs... all of these are bad habits if you do end game stuff.

But...

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Reinha

Raiding: ?/10 Haven't tried.

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... yeah, in 4-man dungeons, it's fine.
Just don't use WM during your daily roulette, and you'll be good to go. You'll probably never meet the other players anyway. "Woops I placed a little AoE badly and hit the BLM! Too bad! The healer will heal him anyway so we're good! Who cares, it's fine!"


I'll just agree that it does matter in PvP games where you can break LoS or makes it harder to the opponant to select and follow you.
FFXIV is not a PvP game however. It's a team-rope-jumping PvE game (but I guess it all comes down to jumping...).

I know I will never play a Bard now. If I wanted to be stationary, I would play a BLM which I will be playing over a bard as bard is nothing but a stupid stationary caster.

You people always stating the whole Bard now plays like a caster, if i wanted to cast i would play as a caster, so forth.. and yet most if not all of you have never played as a caster or have limited experience, seriously you are clueless.
It plays very much differently. Problem is some of you just refuse to adapt, and in turn do not bring everything that you can to help your group out. Is Bard perfect, well no but all classes had changes made to them. Adapt, is all i am saying.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Maero

You people always stating the whole Bard now plays like a caster, if i wanted to cast i would play as a caster, so forth.. and yet most if not all of you have never played as a caster or have limited experience, seriously you are clueless.
It plays very much differently. Problem is some of you just refuse to adapt, and in turn do not bring everything that you can to help your group out. Is Bard perfect, well no but all classes had changes made to them. Adapt, is all i am saying.

---

While it doesn't necessarily root them down as a caster, the use of WM is still stupidly clumsy for a bard that it's in a sense, worse than playing a caster because there's absolutely no ebb and flow to it.

So many posts in so many threads, and there are still people who think we just don't know how to learn a new rotation, or something.

Might as well chop of one of your legs and tell you to deal with it. Could you? Probably. Do you want that? Probably not.

I have to agree with the players who find WM frustrating.

I'm not playing BRD but currently playing MCH which seems to have a similar issue with Gauss Barrel.
Playing throug 22 levels of free movement bouncing about only to have turrent mode slapped in your face is anything but enjoyable. Especially when the combo you have gotten accustomed too have now become erratic due to both latency and rng.

Why did they think it was a good idea to begin with? The only arguments Git gud, it's an mmo standard, that it's easy mode in pve and is overpowered in pvp doesn't really have any merit.

1. Get good is most of the time just a half assed insult to people with a different opinion, rarely followed up with an argument other than "look at me i can do the combo thus you must be a noob".

2. It's an mmo standard primarily due to tecnical issues and because companies are afraid to try new things.

3. Nothing prevented the designers in making the new +50 skills positioal to make the player stand close to the target rather than flailing about at max range, or make more mechanics that target ranged players. Even making a frontal cone extend over the entire arena would make it affect the ranged players.

4. Gap closers and other mechanics. MCH and BRD might have mobility and some crowd control, but that's it. DRG and NIN (dunno about MNK) got both gap closers while tanks and healers got sustain. PVP balance should also be adjusted according to pvp without being infuenced or affecting pve.

If anything they should have made so that casters could move while casting so that pve could be made even more hectic for everyone.

Hm, I find it funny people trying to argue it is not a caster.

Don't use it! Well with this community, Not using a skill that is a dps gain would get you rage.
"It is not that bad!" To you it is not.
"It is not a caster play style. It is a cast bar". No matter how fast it is, It sill is a cast bar.
"Once you get use to it is not that bad!" I am sure I could say the same about many things, but would not change what is fun to many of us.
"Bard tears fuel me!" Ok
"L2p!" No
"Play another class!" What class gave us the same play style that we enjoyed?

I can go on and on.

I have to ask: have you tried it? Not being sarcastic or anything, I truly want to know have you tried it? Did you like anything about it? What issues did you run into using it? How could it be (reasonably) fixed?

We've argued the mobility factors, we pointed out the bugs (and they were fixed), we've even acknowledged the style change of the job. But fact remains that if most gave it an honest try, and didn't try to FORCE 2.0 methods of gameplay while using it, they might find that it is, in fact, a very simple change to adapt to.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wavaryen

Hm, I find it funny people trying to argue it is not a caster.

Don't use it! Well with this community, Not using a skill that is a dps gain would get you rage.
"It is not that bad!" To you it is not.
"It is not a caster play style. It is a cast bar". No matter how fast it is, It sill is a cast bar.
"Once you get use to it is not that bad!" I am sure I could say the same about many things, but would not change what is fun to many of us.
"Bard tears fuel me!" Ok
"L2p!" No
"Play another class!" What class gave us the same play style that we enjoyed?

I can go on and on.

---

There's always. "Quit. Seriously we're done hearing about it." That one's the one I'm leaning towards now.

A lot of the complaints on the matter is Hyperbole. If you can't accept it as a feature than accept it as a bug fix. That style gameplay should have never been given as much leeway as it did, and suddenly the highly entitled are decrying their easy street to mechanics and DPS.

As I've said before - most if not all classes got adjustments that changed the style of gameplay. All players have had to adapt, even to the point where their original role has changed orientation (SMN are now more AoE, BLMs are now more single target, where as before they were reversed. DRG had their positional importance all but removed and no buffs to maintain, to having their own version of Greesed Lightning as well as randomized positionals. Ninja's now fairly set Mantra rotation has changed, along with having buff maintenance and major revisions to certain skills. Monk has lost all the damage based utility they have, as well as gotten a skill that actively deducts DPS in trade for Chakras, which skills may not even be worthwhile debateably )

Of all these major changes to classes, none have been more negative, vocal, and generally destructive to the community than the incessant whining of "Bard-Mage" - which I find laughable as Bards WERE mages in every iteration of FF except this one. It's even more laughable as traditionally ranged classes in other games DID have to worry about animation locks and attack delays traditionally.

So yes, sink or swim. Adapt or quit. I have no sympathy here, beyond small quality of life adjustments that would make gameplay of it more fluid which applies to all jobs in general. The skill is optional. Its impact on gameplay is more visual than piratical unless you were running willy-nilly throughout the entirety of a fight. And now there's an actual element of skill applied to the class rather than simply pressing buttons as they came due for cooldown. Deal with it, or don't. You're not getting them to remove Wanderer's Minuet or its effect on gameplay. The entire point of the skill was to get you to weigh in on the pros and cons and make a decision on when to use it for the extra dps.

Instead, I see what I expected to see- a bunch of entitled players who refused to adapt their playstyle to new mechanics because it visually offends their sensibilities - and demanding the best of both worlds. Sorry, but not sorry. No. If you are that inflexible in your gameplay, you will be better served unsubscribing and playing a single player game that is devoid of updates. These arguments against it are far too hyperbolic - and Bard could use some better, real adjustments to improving it overall.

Man, if people think Bard was so easy before, why didn't everyone hop on the bandwagon?

Could anyone point me to some pre-3.0 Final Coil 4 Bard win videos? People like easy, I bet they did this all the time to farm for gear.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

Stuff.

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Dragoon, eh?

Let's improve your damage by 30%, but let's make you a ranged job. You also can't use Jump anymore. You'll also be wearing cloth armor and throwing pellets instead of using a lance.

Just a bit of a change to the mechanics you are used to.. and some visual changes. No big deal. Learn to play.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Hyrist

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A nice little speech, but your inspiration for such is misdirected. You're just another who sees only people making the ridiculous claims of "best of both worlds" when so few actually have, or that every Bard in existence just likes to run circles and is all about strafing around. Not to mention you also seem to be under the inclination that the "skill cap" for Bard has changed, which it hasn't, just become inconvenient in some areas. So all in all, you've wasted a bit of effort with little understanding of what's actually at the core of these issues which many have stated already.

On other notes: DRG used to have heavy reliance on their positional bonuses, so anyone who has kept up with DRG hasn't been introduced to anything drastic; SMN has still its core of single target power, just added AoE power; BLM I sympathize with as trying to pull the big spells is still a bit stressful, but they are also getting tweaks down the line, and their AoE capacity was only a fraction of their kit, it certainly wasn't their focus.

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Originally Posted by Kat_Manx

Let's improve your damage by 30%, but let's make you a ranged job. You also can't use Jump anymore. You'll also be wearing cloth armor and throwing pellets instead of using a lance.

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Sounds like Bard pre-Minuet, with a flat 30% boost to damage. Did you run out of ideas? I really liked the combat medic idea if that was you who said it. :u

Edit:

I hope you do realise that ranged damage dealers can still execute skills even while in melee range. So, really, there's not much changed except that you gave Dragoon more mobility. All hail our Dragoon overlords.

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Originally Posted by Maero

You people always stating the whole Bard now plays like a caster, if i wanted to cast i would play as a caster, so forth.. and yet most if not all of you have never played as a caster or have limited experience, seriously you are clueless.
It plays very much differently. Problem is some of you just refuse to adapt, and in turn do not bring everything that you can to help your group out. Is Bard perfect, well no but all classes had changes made to them. Adapt, is all i am saying.

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I am so sick and tired of people like this assuming we don't know how to play the class... we all know how the rotation works, we all get high numbers in DPS and we all bring what our raid desires..

Why do we hate BRD then? because WM completely changed the playstyle of our class, we went from swift mobile instant abilities to a turret-like Bow Wizard... we never asked for this, you can't just take a class that everybody loves and completely change it at 52 onwards then expect everyone to be cool with it.

I repeat.

1. We know how to play the new changes
2. We pull high dps numbers and provide the utility our raid desires
3. We hate the playstyle, this is NOT a learn2play issue.

Yea but again how easy was your job beforehand. Let's take a look,

-Never have to worry about positional
-ability to move freely without ever being effected by a ground AOE
-NEVER being affected by AOE's that happen near the boss

BRD had become the only job that could just ignore certain aspects of an encounter because their DPS would never be weakened by it. NIN/DRG/MNKs they have to pull away if an AOE pops up, they have to be ready to move and lose DPS based on what's going on. What does a BRD have to do, turn off Minuet and suffer that loss of 30% dmg increase.

Evolving the class to play more stationary serves to make them have a more relevant need to pay attention to boss mechanics, that they can't simple just run around and never have to worry about a majority of encounters.