Shots Fired: A Machinist Guide

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Originally Posted by Rivez

auto attack nearly hits 1 for one on skills and is 100 potency, we lose it.
testing it out the barrel seems to do nothing to turrets so can ignore them.

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This is not true. AA is not 100 potency in itself. AA is a ratio of a 100 potency attack over 3 seconds. The i190 weapon has a delay of 2.64s meaning that the potency of the AA it deals is relative to that. In this case, the potency of an AA from this gun is 88 potency (2.64/3.00 * 100 (to convert from a %)).

You'd want to adjust your numbers in the rest of the post to account for that change.

It also makes sense that the turret damage does not increase under GB because it's attached to your gun, not the turret.

"This is not true. AA is not 100 potency in itself. AA is a ratio of a 100 potency attack over 3 seconds. The i190 weapon has a delay of 2.64s meaning that the potency of the AA it deals is relative to that. In this case, the potency of an AA from this gun is 88 potency (2.64/3.00 * 100 (to convert from a %)). "


Ah I see and I also forgot to add the 30% buff to the 180 potency skill you can use.

But even with that it isnt doing any extra damage as such is it?

the changes would be:

potencies with auto attack would be 228,268,288

potencies with no auto attack and 30% barrel 182,234,260

for being able to use a 234 potency move every 20 seconds you sacrifice about 8 shots of 28-48 potency.

with that into account its like it doesn't actually do much of anything. You stay about the same only having casting timers now.

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Originally Posted by Rivez

the changes would be:

potencies with auto attack would be 228,268,288

potencies with no auto attack and 30% barrel 182,234,260

for being able to use a 234 potency move every 20 seconds you sacrifice about 8 shots of 28-48 potency.

with that into account its like it doesn't actually do much of anything. You stay about the same only having casting timers now.

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Don't forget to add Increased Action Damage to all your abilities. That doesn't affect auto-attacks. The actual damage increase with GB on is 56%, not 30%.

So with the GB change/fix it's for sure GB only when WF/RF are up correct?

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Originally Posted by Kasmiya

So with the GB change/fix it's for sure GB only when WF/RF are up correct?

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Lol no. Full time gauss barrel. REAL STRONG.

"Don't forget to add Increased Action Damage to all your abilities. That doesn't affect auto-attacks. The actual damage increase with GB on is 56%, not 30%"

how does the percentage work? are all the damage percentages added up on the end or is it 30% of the damage+trait?

if its the first it wont make any difference to to putting the barrel on or off in calculations. If its the second the 30% will be slightly higher than 30%

I think people are over estimating the potency of auto attacks. Gauss barrel on has always out parsed gauss barrel off on all my tests. The 20%/30% damage increase is almost like the kiss of wasp/venom the ninja gets. Throw it on and it will increase your dps. It doesn't add 30% extra dps but it does do more than not having it on. I can see alternating it if you have to move around a lot.. Based on what I have seen, taking it off is a dps decrease, not taking movement into account of course.

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Originally Posted by Rivez

"Don't forget to add Increased Action Damage to all your abilities. That doesn't affect auto-attacks. The actual damage increase with GB on is 56%, not 30%"

how does the percentage work? are all the damage percentages added up on the end or is it 30% of the damage+trait?

if its the first it wont make any difference to to putting the barrel on or off in calculations. If its the second the 30% will be slightly higher than 30%

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multiplicative, just like every other cooldown

was doing ~800 dps full time gauss on all 4 alex fights. The GB change is nice.

Ilevel i155 BTW

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Originally Posted by Odowla

multiplicative, just like every other cooldown

was doing ~800 dps full time gauss on all 4 alex fights. The GB change is nice.

Ilevel i155 BTW

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whoa, 800 dps at i155? I do about 860 at i171... I thought the ilvl requirement for alex was 170?

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Originally Posted by airshowboat

whoa, 800 dps at i155? I do about 860 at i171... I thought the ilvl requirement for alex was 170?

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ofc, i alarm clocked it with my raid so i had to cheese the ilevel to get in, meaning my actual gear was i155 since i just finished levelling it last night, lol

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Originally Posted by Rivez

snip

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It's multiplicative. So 1.2 (IAD2) x 1.3 (GB) = 1.56 or a 56% damage increase. So the new GB is actually a 36% increase to damage.

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Originally Posted by Ryaz

It's multiplicative. So 1.2 (IAD2) x 1.3* (GB) = 1.56 or a 56% damage increase. So the new GB is actually a 36% increase to damage.

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Psst. You added an extra 3.

Still 800 dps at i155 is pretty awesome! How do you handle the 2nd wildfire? Do you pop it as it as soon as it comes or hold it until reload and other cooldowns recharge?

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Originally Posted by airshowboat

Still 800 dps at i155 is pretty awesome! How do you handle the 2nd wildfire? Do you pop it as it as soon as it comes or hold it until reload and other cooldowns recharge?

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This has been the biggest question to me even before the patch. I am not entirely sure if it is worth holding Wildfire back until reload comes or use it on the spot, because they definitely do not line up. Like 30 seconds not line up.

Spent some time testing out possibilities though i'm only 55 so the numbers are lower but with the way potency works the percentages should stay the same with higher damage.

Ok just going with numbers averaged in game with all non crits only taken into account I generally got this:

comparing my attack averages for moves: auto attack 170
then the combo 343,460,506
combo with barrel 441,559,674

adding 88% auto attack which would be 156 to count for it being a little slower

combo adding auto attack no barrel 499,616,662



first attack weaker
second weaker
third hit stronger

ofcourse you get much better numbers with rapidfire with barrel on and gauss came to about 571 averaged.

As far as I can tell the best damage is taking it off for the five seconds you can and make sure you have it on for the quick bursts.

reload without rapidfire is better with it off
reload with rapidfire you want it on

(edit for saying moves name wrong)

You'll want to wait for 60 to be able to put in Ricochet and Hyperdrive before trying to parse any sort of damage TBH.

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Originally Posted by Rivez

Spent some time testing out possibilities though i'm only 55 so the numbers are lower but with the way potency works the percentages should stay the same with higher damage.

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Get 60 pree. You are only counting main combo, when you need to include GR RICO and every other OGCD you do being multiplied by 30%.

First of all, reading this topic really helped me a lot, so thanks to all.

Actually i'm testing the damage after the last patch on a dummy, and i read a lot about the "Full Time GB".
But, actually if without GB i'm doing around 670 + 350 (Split Shot + AA), with the GB i'm doing around 850 (Split Shot).
Ofc this was an example as i tried this with every damage spell, the only difference i see is the possibility of using Ricochet and Gauss Round with GB.

So, what i wonder, is really better to go full GB instead of using it at every Reload / Wildfire?
Because the only big damage difference i see is with crits and ammunitions.

Edit: I'm 170 ilvl, using gear that give me a total of 583 crit rate and 516 det.

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Originally Posted by Sayeth

Actually i'm testing the damage after the last patch on a dummy, and i read a lot about the "Full Time GB".
But, actually if without GB i'm doing around 670 + 350 (Split Shot + AA), with the GB i'm doing around 850 (Split Shot).


So, what i wonder, is really better to go full GB instead of using it at every Reload / Wildfire?
Because the only big damage difference i see is with crits and ammunitions.

Edit: I'm 170 ilvl, using gear that give me a total of 583 crit rate and 516 det.

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you are saying you get 350 DPS with AA? I haven't had the chance to login and test the new stuff out but i know they didn't change our auto attacks last night. In i177 gear with Ravex weapon i parsed 150 DPS with only auto attacks last night, so I'm not sure how you are getting 350 dps from auto attacks. Please stop spreading misinformation.

edit: my 150 AA parse was 3 minutes. Did this so I could see how much auto attacks actually do out of our overall dps.

I wasn't trying to parse damage as such there as I was seeing if it should be kept up at all times.

If everything is on cooldown and you only have reload and main combo then no it is best to take it off.

I don't think I need to get to 60 to see how clear that is

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Originally Posted by Rivez

I don't think I need to get to 60 to see how clear that is

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I would highly recommend it.

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Originally Posted by Rivez

I wasn't trying to parse damage as such there as I was seeing if it should be kept up at all times.

If everything is on cooldown and you only have reload and main combo then no it is best to take it off.

I don't think I need to get to 60 to see how clear that is

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Though some things need to be seen with the new changes, I don't think autos will simply make our GB redundant, especially with Gauss Round and Ricochet. Gauss Round is a 20 second CD that may make up for it.

Get to 60 and parse it and let us know. Napkin math is nice, sometimes, but more thorough experimentation is needed with multiple parses in multiple scenarios to take the evidence from.

Mr Sayeth previously posted who is a level 60 was stating the same thing I was only with higher numbers.

It seems that adding more stats to to percentages doesn't change percentages in maths. How odd.

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Originally Posted by Sevyn

you are saying you get 350 DPS with AA? I haven't had the chance to login and test the new stuff out but i know they didn't change our auto attacks last night. In i177 gear with Ravex weapon i parsed 150 DPS with only auto attacks last night, so I'm not sure how you are getting 350 dps from auto attacks. Please stop spreading misinformation.

edit: my 150 AA parse was 3 minutes. Did this so I could see how much auto attacks actually do out of our overall dps.

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Wrote the numbers as i saw them on the dummy, it's not misinformation.

 The striking dummy takes 637 damage.
You hit the striking dummy for 345 damage

From the battle log :\
p.s. never talked about DPS, just talking about the damage.

"Though some things need to be seen with the new changes, I don't think autos will simply make our GB redundant, especially with Gauss Round and Ricochet. Gauss Round is a 20 second CD that may make up for it.

Get to 60 and parse it and let us know. Napkin math is nice, sometimes, but more thorough experimentation is needed with multiple parses in multiple scenarios to take the evidence from."

Ah very sorry I probably wasn't clear before

After trying it I found you want GB on on your bursts, its definitely better but you want it off with nothing left and just attacking is what I found.

i think it'll be a mix of both on and off to varying degrees that will be our true max damage (the way it should be). It'd be really boring otherwise and not as much of a skillcap.

Also Sayeth I thought you meant you parsed 345 dps over a certain time length not 1 hit lol.

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Originally Posted by Sevyn

i think it'll be a mix of both on and off to varying degrees that will be our true max damage (the way it should be). It'd be really boring otherwise and not as much of a skillcap.

Also Sayeth I thought you meant you parsed 345 dps over a certain time length not 1 hit lol.

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No, no lol. That's why i was asking for some explanations, because all i can see is the damage i see on dummies and fights.
Without any damage cooldown and ammunitions i see the GB a bit frustrating with 850 damage/every Split Shot without any lucky proc.

I guess its quite possible that gauss barrel should only be on to pop ricochet.. Basically you get 2 gauss rounds and one ricochet before you can turn it back off. (might as well wait the 5 seconds before taking the GB off). I need to run some checks to see if that help/hurts dps vs full time GB

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Originally Posted by airshowboat

whoa, 800 dps at i155? I do about 860 at i171... I thought the ilvl requirement for alex was 170?

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I'm doing about the same as you at exactly i170. And yeah I'm pretty sure to pug it it's i170, unless you can queue with a premade group and get around that? lol

The new Guass change gives you plenty of reason to stance dance whenever you have your procs and ogcds available. Either way the class feels much better to play.

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Originally Posted by Cupbot

The new Guass change gives you plenty of reason to stance dance whenever you have your procs and ogcds available. Either way the class feels much better to play.

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So has it been proven yet that switching stances when Ricochet/Wildfire is available better than staying GB full time? I am hearing different things from people.

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Originally Posted by Cascadi

Changelog

07/07/2015 - Square Enix listens with the Gauss Barrel % increase from 20% to 30% in patch 3.01. Ricochet and Gauss Barrel are nerfed. DPS is now higher with Gauss Barrel active. Feint is now recommended over Quelling Strikes.

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Ehhhh? So is a new rotation going to be posted then?

I keep up with few other dps in stance dancing in alex even when popping my regen turret.
I feel this is how they are gonna play from now on for raids and such cause stance dance feels very nice.

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Originally Posted by arctic

Ehhhh? So is a new rotation going to be posted then?

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I think the rotation remains the same.

I use Gauss Barrel pretty much exclusively except for certain parts. For example, in Turn 3 of Alexander, I'm in GB for the first two phases. When he switches to Tornado mode and adds start popping, I drop Gauss in favor of being able to run around and kill the adds quicker. The instant cast is so much better.

Also found a use for Mind Rend-- helps a bit with Cascade, though the minute and a half cooldown means I can only really use it on one.

I think its very important to point out/reiterate that lead shot should not be used with GB off. The 30% does affect the dots and that is a very nice size chunk of dps over 30 seconds. A few quick tests showed that stance dancing for lead shot/ricochet, I can do about 20 more dps over a 3 min parse. At ilvl 172, no food or party buff, GB always on averages around 860 and stance dance around 880.

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Originally Posted by Kasmiya

I'm doing about the same as you at exactly i170. And yeah I'm pretty sure to pug it it's i170, unless you can queue with a premade group and get around that? lol

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Good to see people getting similar numbers as me at similar levels :). How do you handle the 2nd wildfire? I generally hold onto it until the next reload recharges and pop whatever buffs I have at the time.

In A1 I reach a little under 1k and in A3 900+ seems to be where I usually land w/ dragoon.

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Originally Posted by arctic

Ehhhh? So is a new rotation going to be posted then?

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Feint is just when you are forced to move and you do not have any procs available, think of it like Scathe on Black Mage.

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Originally Posted by Massterchef

In A1 I reach a little under 1k and in A3 900+ seems to be where I usually land w/ dragoon.

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Is that sustained dps over the whole fight? At what ilvl? that seems to be pretty high. Although if you are wielding a hive weapon and 180 gear it may be exactly where it should be.