An Open Letter to Yoshida-san: Please Slice One Zero Off the Housing Prices

lol. I'm not sure if anyone has done this math, but based on the dev response of ~20,000gil/day average per person

Assuming:
-All members donate weekly earnings.
-All members subject to 5-day "work" week.
-312,000,000 for the largest high-class on my server (plot only, does not factor building cost)

312,000,000 / (20,000*5*n) = number of weeks to purchase land

where n = number of FC members.

So, with a moderate sized raiding FC like mine (24-30 members w/ 3 active Coil Groups), we can produce 3,000,000gil a week: were looking at 104 weeks before we are able to purchase a plot.

Now this doesn't account for value depreciation, but lets assume 50% depreciation over some number of months (actual number irrelevant as it will take us 2 years to build base value) we can cut it down to 52 weeks with full discount. So this time next year?

Better idea, we max out Freecompany, 512 members all paying 100,000/week. 51.2m/week! we could have the damn thing in ONLY 6.09 weeks!

I could care less about Housing.

However, I realize others have a differing opinion and respect it -- as should others.

I see the issues where making all plots available to start. Though this is a very obvious TIME SYNC imo. With the continued feedback that ive read in this thread I am sure it will be changed.

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Originally Posted by Malakai

I don't think the pricing should be low enough that the majority of the players would already have enough Gil to purchase on the first day.

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Unfortunatelly - the "first day" availability argument being thrown around this thread a lot is completely FALSE. We all knew about FC housing for MONTHS, it was the main selling / promoting point of the 2.1 and many players (me including) worked really REALLY hard in past several months to save every available gill towards FC housing just to be slapped in the face by the patch notes and this nonsense pricing realizing that several millions they've put asside will not buy them even the doorknob, server disparity and finally the MOST STUPID EXCUSE from Yoshi and devs blaming it all on RMT!

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Originally Posted by Heghmoh

lol. I'm not sure if anyone has done this math, but based on the dev response of ~20,000gil/day average per person

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I've actually did a few pages back in this thread - in my very simplified calculation the small FC with 20 members working 7 days a week will require 500 days to save for large ("crafting") house plot - PATHETIC!

Frankly - I'm pretty disgusted how all the situation around FC Housing pricing was really badly handled from the very beggining - it was obvious from the very start that something bad is being cooked as Yoshi was in every single Live letter avoiding the pricing as a plague - I've smelt the bad sushi since last two live letters as the release of the patch 2.1 was approaching and both exact prices as well as FC (level) requirements were still kept secret / "clouded" by generic and specifics avoiding terms like "company level required for housing" and "(small??) FC house can be afforded by 3 average players" CRAP! Really? How exactly have you "calculated" that average? The same way the "average" sallary is calculated in some countries / companies??

I like how we essentially went from free housing in a game filled with poor people and extremely tedious and time-consuming long-term-goal work (Final Fantasy XI)... to a game aimed primarily towards casuals and people who "don't have much time to log in and play like they used to" with houses that will take over 50 people over 3 months of mindnumbing effort grinding gil all day every day.

The lack of individual player housing is short sighted to say the least. Even if you own free company housing, only a handful of people will have access to really customize the things they want to customize. Generally speaking it will be the leadership gang I think in most FCs that set it all up. The mog houses were pretty ingenious, I thought this would be the next step forward. I was disappointed when I found out the individual housing MIGHT come later, and even more disappointed when I saw the pricing on homes. Crazy.

This one /signs this open letter. Yoshi, you have a solid game with excellent content, please correct this oversight :-)

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Originally Posted by Heghmoh

So, with a moderate sized raiding FC like mine (24-30 members w/ 3 active Coil Groups), we can produce 3,000,000gil a week: were looking at 104 weeks before we are able to purchase a plot.

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So you'll make roughly 36 million at the 90 day mark. A medium size plot on your server would sell for roughly 37 to 46 million @ 90 day mark. It's not a mansion on the high but you're also not the top tier FC on your server. A medium home is a good size for a 30 man guild.

They checked the gil on each server.
The people housing was introduced for have the gil to buy it.
You are not one of those people.
Move on.

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Originally Posted by Dyvid

So you'll make roughly 36 million at the 90 day mark. A medium size plot on your server would sell for roughly 37 to 46 million @ 90 day mark. It's not a mansion on the high but you're also not the top tier FC on your server. A medium home is a good size for a 30 man guild.

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"Top tier" in what sense?

To me, a "top tier FC" is either 5-15 rich and skilled people who are good at making money and clearing content together. They don't usually have more than 15 people.

Then there are many FCs that have 300+ people claiming to be the biggest on their servers. Problem is, most of those either don't play often, don't clear content often, completely inactive, or don't do well making money. These types of FCs also have a lot of personality clashing, more drama, and it's more unlikely they'll be able to save up or purchase and maintain a house.

I don't think there are many "top tier" FCs with around 100-300 people that are skilled and good at making money.

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Originally Posted by Camate

Greetings everyone,

Yoshida joined in to offer commentary on specific aspects, and we'd like to share what was said regarding the pricing for the Free Company housing.

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In the Yoshida quote he mention land "selling out", for one of the reasons setting the price point. My take on that is: "Really", running out of land in a virtual world, is simply ridiculous. Or a FC should work for 3 months to save up enough Gil for small or maybe a medium plot of land, I now see that SE is the grinch that stole Christmas. :mad::mad::mad:

I agree with all the players that the price needs to be reduce. Or instead of a Realm Awoken there may a Realm in Revolt.

Heres some thing else housing zone map for ffxiv
http://www.ffxivinfo.com/images/maps/l/mist.jpg

Aion housing zone map
http://images1.wikia.nocookie.net/__...0/OrielMap.jpg

I do not see what the big fuss is about. We knew about housing for a long time and anyone who had started saving for housing had plenty of time to at least have 1Mil saved. I was not trying to save for housing and I have like 1.3Mil when I started the game with almost none. I am on Balmung and am legacy but my highest class was only 37. On my server it is 20M for the smallest house. Before I go on I imagine a hotfix 2 to 4 weeks into 2.1 which will reduce the cost of housing. That being said a moderate FC of 20 members that saved for a house should be able to get the smallest house. (20 of me would have 26Mil, and considering I didn't even have a 50 at launch I bet I am on the low end concerning gil). Based on the videos they showed on housing it looked like the small houses could comfortably hold about 10 players outside - idk how many inside. In a FC of 20 members, maybe 10~15 will be on at any given time and most of them will be out doing things. I imagine the average 20 member FC will have 2~4 people in the FC at any given time. The smallest plot of land should be more than enough for them.

At 20k per day, a FC of 20 people can make 400k per day, 2.8M per week, and 20M in 7 weeks - and that is by simply playing the game. Players who actively try to make money can probably net twice that (if not much more)... meaning if you actively attempt to make money for your house it will take about a month for the smallest house. That isn't too long, and its forgiving considering we were given quite a warning.

Your Free Company house should be a monument to the strength of your FC. I wouldn't want any one person to be able to buy a FC house but if I was on a non-legacy server I would be able to start a FC with 2 of my buddies (assuming they have the same gil as myself) and buy a FC house. That wouldn't make sense. Since we can actually see other FCs houses it should be expensive and should be something we can be proud of. Most of the game is handed to us easy and free. It makes sense that everyone would complain when SE stops spoon-feeding us but its time to realize that jumping to conclusions before even trying it is immature. With this pricing model, getting a FC house will be something that players can be proud of.

Everyone is in an uproar because the prices are so high, but it seems like everyone wants the biggest land there is. I think that everyone wants the biggest and the best while forgetting that your little raiding guild of 50 players who focus on raiding and combat won't even use a medium size house to its full potential and would be better off with a small house. Unless you are a crafting FC (in which case you will likely have a lot of money saved for a house) or a RP FC (in which case you're screwed) then you will not have a majority of your members just hanging out in the house and can probably get by with a house a lot smaller than what you think.

Don't forget that there is a hierarchy and a path to all things. You didnt start out at level 50, you started at level 1. Likewise, you aren't going to start with the largest house, you will start with a small one and expand as needed.

tl;dr - We had ample time to save for housing. Any FC that saved should be able to buy an appropriately sized house. You don't need a house as large as you think you do.

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Originally Posted by Rjain

"Top tier" in what sense? To me, a "top tier FC" is either 5-15 rich and skilled people who are good at making money and clearing content together. They don't usually have more than 15 people.

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To me, a "top tier FC: is a 75+ active member guild that has the numbers and roster to support a giant guild house. Whether is has tons of drama or what ever is besides the point. If they can actually buy a mansion @ 300 million then they are a Top Tier FC on said server.

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Originally Posted by Kyant

tl;dr - We had ample time to save for housing. Any FC that saved should be able to buy an appropriately sized house. You don't need a house as large as you think you do.

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Strawman argument. A lot of FC that DID save (as they stated multiple times in this thread and many others) can't afford even the smallest house in the worst plot.

And you ignore that not everyone plays every day, and has time to grind every time he plays. Basically, your whole argument is invalid because based on completely unrealistic and idealistic parameters.

We already waited for housing. Some of us even more than a year. Square Enix hyped the feature into the ground, and they should have very well predicted that this kind of overinflated prices would have caused a large wave of malcontent between the playerbase.

That's why housing is basically never done in MMORPGs without an entry level, and not providing it here was and is a massive oversight.

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Originally Posted by Kyant

little raiding guild of 50 players

Likewise, you aren't going to start with the largest house, you will start with a small one and expand as needed.

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50 pl FC is NO little - that's actually fairly large FC - small FCs have between 8 - 12 - 20 members.

And - NO - you can't "expand" your FC House - that's what is the majority of the fuss about. You can't even build medium or small house on the large plot. If you spend money on lets say medium plot (and house) and then realize you need larger or simply decide to "upgrade" you need first dismantle your current house, (try to) sell your mid size plot (most certainly at great loss), purchase new large plot and (re-)build the house from the scratch not being able to use (majority of if not all) furnishing from your previous house. "Well" designed upgrade path! Apart of that - other reason many of us wants Large plot / FC house is the workshop for crafting.


I think that to majority of the posters here (apart of about 5 white knights here trolling all the way encounting for less than 1% of overall people involved in this thread based on amount of OP's likes and other posts) are clear about what should (NEEDS) to happen here:

1. Disparrity / discrimination betweeen the servers needs to be removed
2. Prices should be at least 10 times (up to 20 times) less than curent prices on the lowest tier server group
3. This should be done right away, NOT after considerable amount of players leaving the game over period of several months

Alternativelly - holld the PROPER auctions for the available plots to see what players / FCs are actually willing to pay comparing to your (dreamed up) prices. This will have two possitive effects - majority of the FCs will obtain the plots at cost they're willing to pay and (most of all) can afford plus will maximize the amount of FCs purchasing not only the plots itself but also all the related furnishing expading the markets for crafters as well as all other players.

this sucks

Does anyone in an actual progressive FC that has a BCOB static and whatnot actually see more than the 7 other people inside said static? I sure don't. I basically log on to do said weekly raids and then log off due to RL time constraints.

I'm waiting for personal housing, could care less about FC housing I'd rarely use with people I rarely see to begin with. Now if this game had content for more than 8 people... Maybe FC housing would be useful. Maybe one day...

Dev's are now blaming the insane prices on "overcrowding"... in a video game... LOL

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Originally Posted by KKV

Mr. Casadey,

...

I call for your resignation, and the resignation of your colleagues in the North American office. We, the players, require representation that actually represents us, and does not simply tell us what will be. Leave that to Congress.

Justin B.
Florida

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Man, I'm all for cheaper housing and think this is a shitty business decision and all, but this post just screams arrogance and ignorance, two of the most unsavoury -ance's.

Don't shoot the messenger guys holy shit.

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Originally Posted by Babydoll

Yeah >.< Even when I do get that much I certainly would not spend it on those ridiculous prices. Sigh...can't believe FC house is going to be a waste.

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Yup SE seems to have this idea of making content that you won't be able to do with your FC but only tiny 8 person statics need to get their stuff together already geesh.

i dont think yoshi gets what we want and pay for.

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Originally Posted by scarebearz

Dev's are now blaming the insane prices on "overcrowding"... in a video game... LOL

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so they want us to unsub?

housing in this form will never work

1) you loose all the gil when you purchase a lot
2) lets say you have a big FC of 50+ players, what happens if 1 person buys gil, or bots (this new patch will encourage mass botting) and you loose the whole thing. all those people are screwed
3) what happens when a FC leader gets 50 mil then kicks everyone to sell his account? or just takes the gil to buy his personal house?
4) only a few houses available defeats the purpose of removing gil from the game, 100+ fc's will spend 5 million on a house, maybe 1 or 2 will spend 20+ million meaning you will take out 10x more gil by making more spots and more lots and cheaper
5) the vast minority of players on any server has less than 500k. you cant expect them to throw away all their gil on FC housing

weekly upkeep will remove more in the long run

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Originally Posted by Rjain

Snip.

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Please don't misunderstand me. I'm not upset about the housing, nor do I feel entitled. I don't have any plans on spending any amount of time in a virtual home. I have my hands full building my own. No, what I'm upset about is: It seems a lot of players are upset about this. Yet, our community reps don't appear to have conveyed that to development. At what point do those charged with representing the players say "I'm sorry sir, this is unacceptable?" No, what I'm upset about is it appears there are people not executing their duties to the best of their abilities. If the community representatives are really here just to tell the players "This will be so," then they are not Community Representatives, but Company Representatives, and their job descriptions and titles should reflect accordingly.

Sorry for the confusion.

over hyped over priced.

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Originally Posted by KKV

Please don't misunderstand me.

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I understand someone has the pompous audacity on the internet to call for someone they don't even know to resign from their work because they don't impress them.

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Originally Posted by KKV

Mr. Casadey,

Since beta I have always made a point to pay very close attention to the information we, the playerbase, have received from you and your colleagues. I have never been impressed, and in fact I have always felt a sense of conflict of interest.
After having carefully read over your latest response regarding this issue, it is my conclusion that you and your colleagues do not have our interests in mind. If you were paying attention, you would know we are very upset about this. If you had your feet on the ground, in the proverbial mud with us, as a community representative should, you would understand. You and your colleagues, however do not.

I call for your resignation, and the resignation of your colleagues in the North American office. We, the players, require representation that actually represents us, and does not simply tell us what will be. Leave that to Congress.

Justin B.
Florida

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This post is insane, just btw.

Your right and the big question who would personally save up gill for the fc house when they really should start saving money for our personal house if we use what se see's as a reasonable price for a plot of land not even including the cost of the house

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Originally Posted by Anapingofness

I think people are panicking a bit here.
This isn't personal housing. This is FC housing. The point of FC housing is that everyone comes together to buy it, not just the one person.
Moreover, it isn't as if people are starting at 0 gil. People already have some gil saved up that they can use to contribute to FC housing.
Even small FC's will have a chance, sure it may take longer but that's the price you pay for being a smaller FC.

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Originally Posted by MizoreShirayuki

Does anyone in an actual progressive FC that has a BCOB static and whatnot actually see more than the 7 other people inside said static? I sure don't. I basically log on to do said weekly raids and then log off due to RL time constraints.

I'm waiting for personal housing, could care less about FC housing I'd rarely use with people I rarely see to begin with. Now if this game had content for more than 8 people... Maybe FC housing would be useful. Maybe one day...

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Yes, mine does. We actually have a static and a half - a full group made up of just FC members, and the one I'm in, that has three FC members and 4 members from other FCs. We're also looking into starting a second static group of just FC members. And we log in regularly (outside of a few people who just have been slammed by real life). I would, however, point out that just because your FC is like that doesn't mean that housing is useless or undesired by everyone else.

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Originally Posted by KKV

Please don't misunderstand me. I'm not upset about the housing, nor do I feel entitled. I don't have any plans on spending any amount of time in a virtual home. I have my hands full building my own. No, what I'm upset about is: It seems a lot of players are upset about this. Yet, our community reps don't appear to have conveyed that to development. At what point do those charged with representing the players say "I'm sorry sir, this is unacceptable?" No, what I'm upset about is it appears there are people not executing their duties to the best of their abilities. If the community representatives are really here just to tell the players "This will be so," then they are not Community Representatives, but Company Representatives, and their job descriptions and titles should reflect accordingly.

Sorry for the confusion.

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I really feel like you're going the wrong way with this. The reps on the forums aren't here to represent us, they're here to translate what SE is saying at the big house. They're just doing their jobs, and you shouldn't get mad at them.

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Originally Posted by Doo

All this over housing, geez. Just play ffxi it has free mog houses.

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While I absolutely agree that the hostile statements towards the community reps are completely unwarranted (remember, folks, that they are just doing their jobs and none of this is their fault, they are simply the messengers), I don't think that it's fair for you to say that because you don't care about housing (as your post would indicate, anyway), everyone else should feel the same way. Different people are different.

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Originally Posted by ufufu

This post is insane, just btw.

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All this over housing, geez. Just play ffxi it has free mog houses.

I love how they did the housing it is something from some fox news world of crazy.
So for those defending this let me put it in a way maybe you will understand.
so they make a new raid and will show you videos of it for months then add it BUT in order to do it you need to find keys that are dropped once a day. But you will need 100 keys to do the raid. how is this not bait and switch. the same as showing Yoshi buy a house for 900k in the video then making the prices 20X this for the land it is on.

OK, I've not read every post, but enough to get a good feeling for how things are shaping up.

I'm on one of the "cheap" servers, and the pricing is still way out of line. The pricing justification is the influx of RMT that S-E feels has imbalanced the game. They say there is too much money on the servers and THAT is why housing prices are so high! The (supposedly) massive amount of gil held by a few (and likely acquired illegally) is not that important in the scheme of things. Those people will find a way to get the house and more gil. They simply don't care about the rest of the players on their server. I've seen it happen in other MMOs where a wealthy few have to buy themselves the best of everything and be "cool".

What IS important is the amount of gil in the hands of the average player who can only play a couple of hours after work and on weekends. The EARNINGS of an average non-crafting player are the numbers they have to look at. (cont.)

Crafting on the Japanese servers must be held in far greater esteem than it is on North American servers. Small FCs of 10-15 ACTIVE players are lucky if they have one serious crafter - and that crafter seems to be the only one capable of raising any decent gil. In chatting with players, I find that most RESENT doing anything REPETITIVE. That means they resent crafting, gathering, AND grinding instances night after night just to raise a few gil. The typical player I talk to wants variety and a rewarding atmosphere. I've talked to many GMs and some have no interest in housing and others do, but can't get their FC motivated to contribute. I do know a couple who might be able to pull it off, but then I don't know what their source of gil is.
(cont.)

YOSHI-San please lower the price or i fear the sub rate will fall fast. Dont wait for the sub rate to fall before you change it or it will be too late i know youed hate to be the blamed for the 2nd fall of FF 14 but relay heed my words or it will happen and you will be looking at this message as it falls down.I am a 1.0 player from the vary first beta ive played countless mmos but i stuck with this one i believed in this game and now i see this the american dream was buying a home the fc dream was to buy a fc home and you put it so far out of reach you all but crush that dream im not going to unsub but i will tell you removing one 0 is better than removing 1.0 players and new please yoshida this is what the mass wants i place to chill with there fc hang out its about friends having a place to call there own. so please yoshida remove a 0 and thank you for taking the time to read this.

http://i.imgur.com/GDQPa21.gif

Here's a little different combination of fixes that might work - keep in mind that ALL of them should be implemented, not just one:

1. Leave the top housing prices the way they are for now and just make the SMALL house a bit less expensive. Large houses should be expensive, and a long term goal. But a small (meddium) house should be priced to be within reach of a small FC within a matter of weeks.
2. Setup an AUTO-BONUS system that puts a percent (on top) of all money earned by members into the FC bank. The % can grow depending on the FC rank. For example, a level 1 FC only get 1%, level 8 gets 8%, etc. Having members complete certain activities, etc. can give a boost to the bonus. This gives a BASE for the FC to grow donations on top of.
3. Calculate realistic average player income and make sure that an FC with 8-10 active members can actually buy a house without having to focus JUST on grinding.
(cont.)

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Originally Posted by jebali

I love how they did the housing it is something from some fox news world of crazy.
So for those defending this let me put it in a way maybe you will understand.
so they make a new raid and will show you videos of it for months then add it BUT in order to do it you need to find keys that are dropped once a day. But you will need 100 keys to do the raid. how is this not bait and switch. the same as showing Yoshi buy a house for 900k in the video then making the prices 20X this for the land it is on.

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I actually kinda like the key idea, so it's a bad example, lol

The biggest thing is, it's cosmetic mostly, mostly casual, yet it has the most hardcore requirements in the game.

The people who DO want it, can't afford it most likely, and the people who CAN afford might not even want it.

Know your audience guys.

HOUSING! 2.1!! LOOK FORWARD TO IT!!!

"We estimate that by doing this for around three months you should be able to purchase land."

Ok, so you want us to enjoy it in 2.2 then?

Dumb.

4. Let FC's UPGRADE their house and piece of land easily - and lose a modest amount - not the whole thing. e.g. they can pay a real estate agent to relist it and it becomes blank property again, BUT they get a discount on the next piece of land up (and the basic house) and can reuse furnishings, lawn items, etc. in their new house. This lets an FC grow their house as they grow their FC, and not have to start all over again.

Sorry for the long multi-part post. I too am very disappointed the way that housing was implemented, but hopefully things will settle down and work out... I'm not going to get too upset until I see how the rest of the game develops.

I'll say it again, the plots of land should've been attainable only through other means. From Company points pooled together from all members of the guild, to tasks, dailies and other activities that involved ACTUALLY PLAYING THE DAMN GAME instead of the markets. Even if it took months to achieve. Then they could've had furniture and consumables be the gil sink afterwards.

That is a real goal, not making gil and competing with RMT for it like dogs just for the land.

The retarded way this is implemented it will just fuel RMT, and leave out any FC that is not focused on making gil or that doesn't demand gil from it's members. And I'm sure many people will switch companies just to be in one that can afford to buy a big house, not to mention any of those FC will probably ask for a minimum amount of gil before they let anyone in.

Is that really what Yoshi wants this game to be like? Either way I just hope Individual housing isn't as f'ed up as this.