The Mentoring Requirements... *Rant Style*

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Originally Posted by Alahra

I'm not sure what you mean by the Roulette being more in depth. Could you elaborate?

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Break it up into sections. I think It should be broken down further so you can mentor more specific thing better. It's primary purpose should be to mentor, not to get another daily roulette out of the way.

Therefore you can have different levels of mentors. And the availability will scale with the playerbases experience, and scale as the game grows.

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Originally Posted by Whiteroom

Break it up into sections. I think It should be broken down further so you can mentor more specific thing better. It's primary purpose should be to mentor, not to get another daily roulette out of the way.

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But that would also have the effect of reducing the number of people available for a particular "Duty in Need" as it were (and also put a burden on Mentors to do a lot more Roulettes than everyone else, if they really wanted to engage with the system).

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Originally Posted by Alahra

But that would also have the effect of reducing the number of people available for a particular "Duty in Need" as it were (and also put a burden on Mentors to do a lot more Roulettes than everyone else, if they really wanted to engage with the system).

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It would, and I believe it should. You shouldn't have people who don't have the ability to mentor specific things, mentoring them just to fill seats, it goes against the reason you have a teaching system in the first place.

For example, I should not be able to mentor people in things like Savage, but I certainly could mentor Alex NM. It would also act as a limiter to people who have fate leveled their jobs. I could teach people WHM, WAR, and DRG pretty well, but I shouldn't be teaching people SCH, BLM, or AST. All of which I have to 60.

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Originally Posted by Whiteroom

It would, and I believe it should. You shouldn't have people who don't have the ability to mentor specific things, mentoring them just to fill seats, it goes against the reason you have a teaching system in the first place.

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Honestly, I think you're overly-concerned, though.

The Mentor Roulette as is only includes Dungeons and Trials up to 2.55 (I'm assuming they aren't including Extreme fights in this, but they haven't said specifically). A mentor who has been through the Dungeons and Trials in ARR enough to have hit the 1000 instances requirement and 300 commendations requirement should generally be familiar enough with 2.55 content to guide a newer player through it.

I'm sure there will be some players who meet the requirements that won't be worth their salt as a mentor—but I suspect their numbers will actually be fairly small among folks that are actually keen on using the mentor roulette. And those rare instances are going to exist no matter what sort of requirements they put in place, to be realistic about it.

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Originally Posted by Alahra

But that would also have the effect of reducing the number of people available for a particular "Duty in Need" as it were (and also put a burden on Mentors to do a lot more Roulettes than everyone else, if they really wanted to engage with the system).

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The mentoring system being a roulette in the first place makes me question whether it's actually intended to teach much of anything, as opposed to, say, a cross-realm PF listing. "Mentor wanted. About to run a quick dungeon. 3/4. Looking for a skilled all-60 mentor to coach how to successfully speedrun a dungeon." "DRG looking for mentor for improving opener and fight strategy, and BotD maintenance." "Healer looking for a healer-dps coach mentor." Those kinds of things would actually get you some real training. Having a level 60 who simply knows how to dps, not even on the same job as he's mentoring, likely without any broader concerns of target order, minimizing the time it takes to kill a set of mobs or (more importantly) total run time, is not guaranteed to be able to teach a single thing. Nor do any of these requirements guarantee a quality player even on the jobs they do have maxed.

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Originally Posted by Alahra

Honestly, I think you're overly-concerned, though.

The Mentor Roulette as is only includes Dungeons and Trials up to 2.55 (I'm assuming they aren't including Extreme fights in this, but they haven't said specifically). A mentor who has been through the Dungeons and Trials in ARR enough to have hit the 1000 instances requirement and 300 commendations requirement should generally be familiar enough with 2.55 content to guide a newer player through it.

I'm sure there will be some players who meetthe requirements that won't be worth their salt as a mentor—but I suspect their numbers will actually be fairly small among folks that are actually keen on using the mentor roulette. And those rare instances are going to exist no matter what sort of requirements they put in place, to be realistic about it.

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True, but I am also thinking beyond it's current mold. We have so many players currently at level 60 that have no idea what they are doing. The whole system could and should be expanded if it is actually implemented in a way that works.

If the game was static, the current system is fine. But it is not static, it is constantly expanding, and if they include this in the design they should have to waste less resources revamping it as it expands.

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Originally Posted by Shurrikhan

The mentoring system being a roulette in the first place makes me question whether it's actually intended to teach much of anything

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To be honest, again...I think a lot of folks are vastly overestimating the overall goal of the system. It's not about teaching people in depth rotations, buff maintenance, and things like that. It's about getting them acclimated to the game and MMOs in general. Here's what Yoshi had to say about it in the recent Q&A with the PlayStation Blog:

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Originally Posted by Naoki Yoshida

MMORPGs offer a huge amount of content and gameplay systems, so I can imagine how playing one could potentially be overwhelming for some players, especially when they play an MMORPG or online game for the first time. However, the introduction of the mentor system with this new patch enables veteran players to proactively support those who have started the game recently, creating an opportunity for both veteran players and rookies to meet and get to know each other.

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While I'm sure Mentors will certainly help people with more detailed aspects of their classes, the system is focused on Sprouts (those with less than 40 hours of playtime) more than anything else, and the in-depth stuff isn't necessarily going to be appropriate for them, especially since a lot of the deep stuff doesn't show up until 50+.

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Originally Posted by Whiteroom

True, but I am also thinking beyond it's current mold. We have so many players currently at level 60 that have no idea what they are doing. The whole system could and should be expanded if it is actually implemented in a way that works.

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I won't argue against it being expanded in the future, but ultimately they're focused on making sure new arrivals stick around right now. That seems to be the main focus of the Mentor System as a whole. It'd be great if they could expand it in time to include elements that emphasize end-game roles, proper DPS rotations, and all of that.

But they've got to start somewhere (and honestly, I'd prefer they start small and expand than trying to do something huge in scope, so they have more time to learn about how folks are using the system and all of that). Luckily, if the system works as they seem to hope it will, I'd imagine most Mentors will remain friends with the people they mentor on their server, and so they can help them out with all that level 60 stuff when the time comes.

Helping existing players is another matter entirely (and I think they could probably expand Stone, Sea, and Sky to allow Mentors to interact with it in some way, but again, they're probably starting small).

Alahra hit the nail on the head. The system isn't about properly teaching someone up to level 60, or ensuring they know proper DRG rotation at 60 or ensuring they become a good <job>. It's about being a reliable resource for new players.

"I want to be a Ninja. Where do I find the NIN guild?"
"What stat do I put my points in for Thaumaturge?"
"Hey that gear is cool! Where can I get one?"
"I have to run [instance] for the story.Where do I find it?"
"I wanna make my own armor. What crafting job do I pick?"

These are more likely the questions that will be more frequently asked, and in answering them, you can establish a rapport with the newer player, making them a LOT more willing to listen later on when it comes to more intermediary/advanced gameplay aspects.

In areas where the game does not fully explain things or hold your hand, it's up to the community to take care of the rest. Being a mentor is about being a reliable, trustworthy resource for such occasions.

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Originally Posted by ThirdChild_ZKI

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this should be the way to go,but the implementation of the Mentor roulette doesnt go in that direction. To give those advice you also dont need a Mentor status, anyone that is a NIN ( for example) can say where to find what, anyone that has done all the things way up to 60 know the answer and wehre to find what. it doesnt require a title to do that.

As for rotation, how many that are at 60 dont know proper ways to play their class ? too many dont and you would like those to give advice ?

I still maintain that we will see more and more toxicity in the normal dungeons where people will look down to new and tell them to go and seek a mentor out and be kicked from dungeons, this is probably the worst idea in this game that has been promoted together with the kick option.

Maybe I am wrong, I HOPE I am wrong but I doubt so very much. Too many self entitled people.

Besides, people should be well aware that if you are a Mentor you are not just a Mentor a day or a minute, you are a Mentor in out and everywhere and I doubt people are mature enough for such, this is seriously going to be quickly a problem, and I give it two weeks before we see a thread in here about that.

In theory the idea is good but in truth is just a can of worms that shoudl never be opened.

The simplest answer would be, you simply cant please everyone. This is how they designed it. They have their reasons for doing it like this. Only testing this out will decide wether or not these reasons are good & realistic. Just suck it up. If you've tried it and then decide it sucks, then you can rant :P But it's really pointless to get pissed off before it even came out.