Why can't we have jobs with this level of depth and customization in FFXIV?

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Originally Posted by saeedaisspecial

"Interesting mechanics already exist."
"XIV is not going to do something that already exists"
"Therefore XIV will not have interesting mechanics."
Fun game.

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So if you played FFXI my question to you is if you feel this way, why Leave FFXI? You came to FFXIV for something new right, so why do you want the same stuff that you left from?

I mean why leave FFXI if you want the same thing, no point in that.

This game hasn't even got a first expansion and yeah it is a fun game.

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Originally Posted by Amberion

Just thought I should point out that FFXI where much more a console type game then FFXIV. Heck, it was even created for the PS2 before they ported it to PC.
Anyway, I'm all for complexity. It's things like that that brings a game to life.

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True, but I think the PS2 era of players were more traditional rpg oriented then the newer era of players. Gaming has changed man, it's a different time. Xbox One, PS4, theres alot more streamlining and casual friendly content instead of hours of theorycrafting required to kill 1 mob. Those days are over IMO. I mean you can still do it, but for the most part its not necessary.

I too want complexity but I don't want the old school way of doing it - where 90% of the "variety" was garbage and the 10% was worth delving into. The way the system is setup now its basically we have the 10% built-in and the 90% doesn't even exist - which is a much more streamline and fluent combat system, which makes for easier balancing. Now it just boils down to players an understanding there rotations and knowing the battle.

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Originally Posted by Gilthas

They actually made Ranger a desired job again? I still remember the great Ranger nerf that led most of the Ranger population to bury their bows/xbows/guns.

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Yes pretty much, the majority of players cannot deal with close combat. Ranger x 3 is what they use mostly for new BCNM Ark Angels. And rangers are being used on some of the delve endgame content. Pretty much the set up would be for 6 person: Monk x 2, Whm, Brd, Sch, and the last spot will often goes to either Geomancer, Corsair, Dragoon, Warrior, Samurai or Dark Knight. Some delve set up would be: Paladin, Ranger x 2, Bard, Whm, and Sch. Or they would go with: Sam, War, Bard, Whm, Sch, and Cor (or Sam x 2). As you can see, FFXI endgame cannot win, will not even attempt to do ANY content without their bard and white mage, period - end of story.

Monk, Whm, Bard, Sam, Pld, Sch, Ranger are the top jobs to play and everyone play these days. The other jobs are not used that much on most end game stuffs. Certain jobs are deemed for farming and solo purpose only.

FFXIV will never be FFXI because it would render FFXI obsolete. There's a reason those servers are still live...so people who enjoy complexity can play the game. FFXIV is a game for people who enjoy simplicity. It's not and will never be FFXI-2.

It amazese how many people complain "XI had this, why doesn't XIV?" and yet don't have the common sense to just go play XI. Hell the game is there to be played, seriously, go play it.

I approve of any thread asking for more depth to combat. We've had various requests of the same category for some time now.

I think that FFXIV being different then FFXI is fine.

FFXI is having a 1 free week for anyone who has ever had a FFXI account from Wed 10-17th and I think you can download the newest expansion SoA for free to try out. You could actually try that game out again if you and see if it was nostalgia or not.

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Originally Posted by DenariusJay

True, but I think the PS2 era of players were more traditional rpg oriented then the newer era of players. Gaming has changed man, it's a different time. Xbox One, PS4, theres alot more streamlining and casual friendly content instead of hours of theorycrafting required to kill 1 mob. Those days are over IMO. I mean you can still do it, but for the most part its not necessary.

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It's sad really. Japanese game companies wonder why they do badly internationally. They try to imitate western games, yet don't seem to realize that they did as good as they did, at least here in the west, was because they where different.

Of course, this is towards single player games.

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So if you played FFXI my question to you is if you feel this way, why Leave FFXI? You came to FFXIV for something new right, so why do you want the same stuff that you left from?

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You do know they just want added complexity right? That FFXI was only used as an example as they know that system best.

Asking for complexity isn't some code for wanting FFXI.

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Originally Posted by Fendred

I approve of any thread asking for more depth to combat. We've had various requests of the same category for some time now.

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It really baffles me that people think this game is too simple.... This game is "easy to pick up" and yet has its own complex system to master. FFXI melee is quite simple, pretty much auto attack, wait for 100 TP and cycle your job abilities with a few macros. That is it, no dance around, no avoiding anything much, you auto attack and hit abilities. Support and healing job maybe a bit more work and gear swap macro makes things more complex (a big waste of time). The amount of spells there for mage jobs is absurd... People think "simplicity" is bad... The hardest thing to do is to create a simple to pick up and play game but has enough complexity to master.

I think FF14 did a great job in achieving its goal to appeal to most players and yet still retain some depth. We do not need FFXI garbage complex syndrome to invade this game. And NO SUPPORT JOB EVER!!! PERIOD. END OF STORY. Unless your idea of gaming is "we cannot clear content without XYZ support jobs". Where players refuse to do endgame events if there is no "stun lock" job (aka Stun Scholar). In FFXI the new standard is you must have an level 119 weapons and gear to clear level 119 content where you need to get those gears in the first place, lol, so you need 119 gears but you cannot participate in the said content because you don't have level 119 gears.

If FF14 will turn into the absolute hot mess of FFXI "complex spaghetti code" where even the new team is having a hard time fixing the current game, people will abandon any Duty Finder events in droves the minute they see "support job VIP Diva Primadonna" is not in their party (I am looking at you "FFXI Bard"). And then players start demanding that if you play support then you MUST have top of the line weapon, or don't even bother coming and playing on "daily duty roulette" anything.

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Originally Posted by Velox

FFXIV will never be FFXI because it would render FFXI obsolete. There's a reason those servers are still live...so people who enjoy complexity can play the game. FFXIV is a game for people who enjoy simplicity. It's not and will never be FFXI-2.

It amazese how many people complain "XI had this, why doesn't XIV?" and yet don't have the common sense to just go play XI. Hell the game is there to be played, seriously, go play it.

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I think you mistake what's being said as "make this game XI-2" and not seeing the intended meaning. This topic is less "XI had this, why doesn't XIV?" and more "XIV has jobs with very simple mechanics, here's an example of what a future class/job could be similar to."

What's wrong with looking to SE's past works and examining ideas that worked that could be altered (probably heavily so it isn't super complex and it won't break the game) and implemented in some way into XIV:ARR (a game that is still growing in many ways).

It's unlikely the combat system will ever change, but who's to say we can't have at least one class/job work with at least some more complexity than what we already have?

And people left XI for various reasons: to find a new experience, dwindling server populations, friends quitting, unable to sink several hours a day into the game because of real life, not liking the new expansions, falling too far behind and are unwilling to catch up, etc. among a slew of others reasons. Just generalizing it into "people who enjoy complexity can play [FFXI]. FFXIV is a game for people who enjoy simplicity." just doesn't work. Hardened FFXI players certainly aren't the target audience, they never were for ARR. But it doesn't mean more complex mechanics can be implemented in some way in the future.

Expansions, updates, new jobs... There's a lot in store for this game, it's not unreasonable to expect the game to grow even slightly more complex as time goes on and new content is implemented.

The problem is that the combat in FFXIV is too speedy for a job like PUP to work like it does in XI. Here a PUP can certainly exist, but it's going to be a far cry from the XI version, just like all the other jobs here that are there. XIV is designed for simplicity and speed. XI was designed for strategy in a slower paced game during earlier times. I don't think they are going to make things more complex because at the end of the day you're still going to be spamming a button to attack, and dodging AoE until something is dead. I'm pretty sure SE is content with that gameplay style, coming from their own mouths.

All I can say is, maybe next go round in a future Final Fantasy Whatever Online MMORPG. They've done the hardcore thing. They're doing the softcore thing. Somewhere in the middle of those for the next game might hit all the right spots for everyone to enjoy it.