Monk- general discussion and feedback

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Originally Posted by Darthenron

Honestly from a mnk main i really only have 1 gripe with it that's very noticeable. When im doing my rotation fracture > touch of death > perfect balance > demolish > snap punch x2 > twin snakes > dragon kick x2 i have the full dps train going. I feel like holding everything up is difficult because you can't always overlap your dots. So dragonkick can wear during your rotation or fracture or demolish because you can't reliable overlap them so you have to wait for them to wear off. I still weave them back on as quickly as possible. I just feel like from the information I've gathered losing that second or two to make sure the dots are off before you reapply is slightly damaging the dps. I feel that if dots can be overlapped so i can reapply before Garuda disappears for sisters or before i have to go take care of adds say in WP or AK i could hold a higher dps.

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Then you have an imperfect understanding of exactly how much damage you're getting from your DoTs. If you don't let your DoT fully tick and drop off, that means it did not do its maximum damage. Overwriting a DoT means eating whatever ticks it had left, effectively having them go to waste.

For example, Demolish does more damage than Snap Punch if it fully ticks for the entire 18s duration. However, if you were able to overwrite it so that even a single tick was lost, it becomes a total less damage than Snap Punch... at which point why even bother with an attack that spreads your damage over time when the other choice does both more total damage and does it instantly?

Overwriting DoTs is bad. You do not want to do that. The game currently prevents you from overwriting an existing DoT if it was placed with more buffs before - basically you can only overwrite your DoT with a stronger one, but a weaker one will fail and not go through.

Get out of the mentality that 1-2s of no DoT uptime is bad DPS. It isn't. What matters is letting your DoTs fully tick until they are complete, and then applying them again as soon as possible.

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

Snip.

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Dots tick on a set server time. If you overwrite them when they have a few seconds left, but wouldn't tick before they wear off, then it's a DPS increase. Granted that is a small window but waiting for them to wear off can be a loss of DPS. Of course that is also min-max and won't matter much in the long run.

Also, from the census Data, From level 31-50. Only counting jobs, Monk is tied with Summoner for least played DPS @14% So you should check your facts on that "MNK is the most popular melee DD, far more popular than DRG."

Just throwing this out there, I did acouple of WP runs with a DRG who was slightly better geared them me and we both had relic non plus. I took aggro more than him and did more dps. He wasn't bad at all either. Just tossing that one out there.

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Originally Posted by DerpyCubone

Dots tick on a set server time. If you overwrite them when they have a few seconds left, but wouldn't tick before they wear off, then it's a DPS increase. Granted that is a small window but waiting for them to wear off can be a loss of DPS. Of course that is also min-max and won't matter much in the long run.

Also, from the census Data, From level 31-50. Only counting jobs, Monk is tied with Summoner for least played DPS @14% So you should check your facts on that "MNK is the most popular melee DD, far more popular than DRG."

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I don't mean popular in the sense that people love to play it. Who cares about that lol. I'm talking about popular in terms of what is brought to end game content. No census is gonna tell you that. You just need to be in endgame and deal with endgame parties and see how people tell you DRG DPS is crap compared to a good MNK.

Also, you cannot overwrite your DoT. Game will not let you unless you are more buffed than you were when you applied the previous. The attempt fails, and if you mess it up as such with Demolish you're likely gonna mess up your rotation by hitting DK again without having you GL3 refreshed.

I swear some of the things you say... it's like you're arguing just to argue.

"MNK is the most popular melee DD, far more popular than DRG." =/= " I'm talking about popular in terms of what is brought to end game content."

And unless your currently weaker via a buff wearing off, you can reapply your dots. Equal damage or greater damage you can reapply. YOU CAN overwrite your dots. The Game will let you. The fact that you don't know this tells me a lot about your Monk.

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Originally Posted by DerpyCubone

"MNK is the most popular melee DD, far more popular than DRG." =/= " I'm talking about popular in terms of what is brought to end game content."

And unless your currently weaker via a buff wearing off, you can reapply your dots. Equal damage or greater damage you can reapply. YOU CAN overwrite your dots. The Game will let you. The fact that you don't know this tells me a lot about your Monk.

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-_-...

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

I swear some of the things you say... it's like you're arguing just to argue.

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Do tell me, how much of Coil have you cleared on your MNK?

I do like the cries for "Monk needs better AOE"....your a monk...you get up close and personal. You have 2 hands and 2 legs with no magic or long weapons to logistically hit multiple things at once let alone at any distance. I like monk, its fun to play, the 300+ dps rotations on a static target from the flank is cool...but, like it should be, its situational. I don't believe all DPS classes should be 'balanced' in terms of having the same moves only named different or with a different animation. Role players, nothing wrong with that. Do I think the game needs to change a little to better accommodate the variety they already have? Absolutely.

A thought I've been toying with is a base-damage modifier increase for all monk skills when they are surrounded by more mobs. Trash packs in dungeons then get spiked damage on the front end of the fight when there are more mobs around (call it within 5 yalms or so) that then tapers off as they start to die off. Im sure it would need testing and likely a total increase cap (like 50% for 5x mobs or something...to avoid 1-punch kills during WP speed runs with near 20 mobs around)

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Originally Posted by NoctisUmbra

-_-...



Do tell me, how much of Coil have you cleared on your MNK?

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Nice strawman there =) Did it take long to build?

"Also, you cannot overwrite your DoT. Game will not let you unless you are more buffed than you were when you applied the previous." You can't escape that by trying to deflect on my Coil experience. So either you misspoke, which is ok. Or you do not know how Dots work. Which is it?

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Originally Posted by DerpyCubone

Nice strawman there =) Did it take long to build?

"Also, you cannot overwrite your DoT. Game will not let you unless you are more buffed than you were when you applied the previous." You can't escape that by trying to deflect on my Coil experience. So either you misspoke, which is ok. Or you do not know how Dots work. Which is it?

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Point remains. Unless you've kept perfect track of what buffs you had when you applied which Dot AND you're perfectly sure of the server tick time enough to risk a 2s overwrite for a miniscule DPS gain at the risk of losing GL3 due to a rotation fuck up or at least wasting a GCD... then sure go ahead.

Or you can just let your DoTs tick off.

It's also more than a strawman. Someone with little to no endgame experience shouldn't be talking about adjustments to jobs. MNK is highly desired in endgame, and you'd know that instead of arguing random semantics like popularity or trying to poke holes in little inconsequential debates.

Of course, I suppose you just need to find any holes you can when you're not making any sense in the actual topic at hand.

Try having a conversation with me about MNK metagame once you actually experience MNK metagame.

I have a nice idea about ONE ILm punch- an idea of accumulation of the charges and then releasing of these charges in one high-damage blast (maybe Aoe-blast). For example in monk's rotation is a skill (maybe already existing), and when monk uses this skill he gains one charge. Second using- two charges and then three charges. And then, by using ONE ILm punch monk releases these three charges in a high-damage blow. The main idea is simple