Dragoons: A Rotation Reborn

Yeah, buffs apply (at least to "instant" weaponskills) as long as you activate the skill before it falls off. The game seems to calculate all bonuses (positionals, buffs, etc.) on activation, while only finalizing the effect at the moment the skill is supposed to land animation-wise, making your "instant" skills not so (Benediction: "instantly kills the target"). Most anyone who's spent significant time on their monk has seen that Greased Lightning that falls off wayyy before Demolish puts it back on, for instance.

I noticed something from my Full Thrust testing... the damage formula from a year ago is lowballing my results by >1%. Time for a new one D:

Could I see your datasheet if possible Sunny?

It's the Disembowel test. The third sheet shows the relevant stats.

To save everyone some time, I've simply added the formula-derived result to that sheet.

Mhmm. Nice, nice.

I'll do some tests tonight then and aim for a sample of 500+ True Thrusts.

It was inevitable that we'd need to redo some of the Formulas when we hit the expansion, but if we need to rework the damage formula as well... ha

EMX never claimed it was accurate, only that it fit the data!

Awkwardly enough, EMX's formulae matches my data sample. I think the issue with your sample is that you never correctly identified a min/max value of your Full Thrusts.

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...l4g6-gsjU1Fk8/

Last two tabs are my edits.

Your doc is locked!

My Leg Sweep measurements done in the same gear have a similar aberration (306 instead of 302), that's all I really can show for now.

I'm currently working my way through my packratted spear collection, and so far I keep getting lower values out of the formula than I'm getting out of the game. Naturally, the closer I get to the original test data stats, the less off things seem to be, but I want to do it right this time, hehe.

Alright, quick question.

I'm ilvl 116 and I'm pulling 428 (Got to 440 once too, though I feel like I got lucky and when I die randomly cause I'm an idiot, I get to 390ish) DPS on average at the moment on T10. We've pushed him to 10% so far. I'm wondering, is my DPS any good? I'm struggling to keep my TP up at the moment.

It's locked. :x

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Originally Posted by Jeckyl_Tesla

Alright, quick question.

I'm ilvl 116 and I'm pulling 428 (Got to 440 once too, though I feel like I got lucky and when I die randomly cause I'm an idiot, I get to 390ish) DPS on average at the moment on T10. We've pushed him to 10% so far. I'm wondering, is my DPS any good? I'm struggling to keep my TP up at the moment.

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T10 is one of those turns where you need an Army's Paeon/Goad to stay afloat unless you get unlucky with Wild Charges and the like, so no issue there. From what I remember of T10 around your iLvl, you're doing fine. Just don't die randomly like and idiot and you'll do well; keep aiming for that 440, but you could probably push a bit more if you got stuck in there.

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Originally Posted by Mibhas

T10 is one of those turns where you need an Army's Paeon/Goad to stay afloat unless you get unlucky with Wild Charges and the like, so no issue there. From what I remember of T10 around your iLvl, you're doing fine. Just don't die randomly like and idiot and you'll do well; keep aiming for that 440, but you could probably push a bit more if you got stuck in there.

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Thanks! I'm going to keep on pushing my DPS. I know I can do better when I pull my rotation properly. Until today, I've been using a slightly different rotation but I've switched to a higher parsing one now and still on the odd points switch to my old one without realizing :P

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Originally Posted by Dervy

Before CT: 4624+4630+4286+3990 = 17530 / 294.29 = 59.5670936831017 PPS

Before DE: 4324+4680+4630+3897 = 17531 / 294.29 = 59.57049169186857 PPS

Before ID: 4286+4380+4680+4184 = 17530 / 294.29 = 59.5670936831017 PPS

So if you really care about 1 potency after like 5 minutes, or 0.00339800876687 PPS, use before DE.

If you want more burst, use before CT

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the issue is that if you bfb before disembowel then you gotta pot after disembowel then you're delaying leg sweep, and you'll have xpot for ht aka 170 pot instead of the 220 pot disembowel

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets...gid=1067791741 It's unlocked now for your viewing pleasure and yeah you are right, it does underestimate the expected damage by 1%. I assume the formula isn't as accurate at high levels of strength/WD.

I guess that explains why my model is estimating NINs to do 594 DPS in BiS, yet that lucrezia guy is busting out 630dps in T13 lol. 594*1.1 = 653.4 bad math at 8am is bad math

And yah Ricky, that's why I always use BFB Before DE.

2 Questions. For T12 is it a DPS loss to hold DFD to hit all 4 Bennus? I use it on Bennus #1 at the start of the fight, and it comes back up around Bennus #4, but if I hold it till we get to next phase so I can hit 4 Bennu with it, is it considered a loss or should I use it on cd?

The other is similar as well, should I be holding Dragonfire Dive for the Son and Daughter or just use it on burst? Unfortunately it's a bit more difficult to run these things more than once a week for me so I can't test it out that well.

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Originally Posted by Dervy

I guess that explains why my model is estimating NINs to do 594 DPS in BiS, yet that lucrezia guy is busting out 630dps in T13 lol. 594*1.1 = 653.4.

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Is that a merged or unmerged parse you saw a 630 dps? My best is 510 130 wep no nin, on monk. I feel like 630 is a little out of reach.

My parse was unmerged.

http://a.pomf.se/wsakcx.png

So I assume merged.

So wait, I'm using B4B right after HT. Then Impulse+IR, Disembowel+Pot, Chaos+PS, Phlebo+Jump, True+Leg, Vorpal+LS, Full+DFD. This is assuming I've already used Spineshatter at the pull because I'm too lazy to walk. Aside from swapping IR and B4B, which I should have learned to do ages ago, is there anything I should swap?

(back in topic, Lucrezia have the benefit of having servers right next to them, reducing immensely their latency and so on - so assuming what I said is not a fairy tale, I think that's part of why your assumptions are lower than their output.)

there's not much downtime in t10 that merged/unmerged would matter, unless you're setting the encounter culling at less than 6 seconds

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qBcvSI0f_sU

my opener (365 skillspeed)

2nd bfb will be up right before a FT>phle, clipping by about.. 0.2-0.4s at 365 skillspeed. at lower skillspeeds you won't see the clipping, because you won't be late casting bfb for a 9th hit anyway.

ir drops before ls+ft
x-pot drops after ft
9th skill in bfb if applicable is ft
next bfb comes up before a FT, and then again for the 3rd one. 4th one will be up for a phlebotomize iirc

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Originally Posted by Dervy

http://a.pomf.se/wsakcx.png

So I assume merged.

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Thats not t13, thats t10(You said 13 begore lol). 630 in there is not out of reach.

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Originally Posted by Aiurily

there's not much downtime in t10 that merged/unmerged would matter, unless you're setting the encounter culling at less than 6 secoonds

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I wasnt talking about t10. I was talking about t13, which is what dervy had originally posted.

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Originally Posted by ColdestHeaven

So wait, I'm using B4B right after HT. Then Impulse+IR, Disembowel+Pot, Chaos+PS, Phlebo+Jump, True+Leg, Vorpal+LS, Full+DFD. This is assuming I've already used Spineshatter at the pull because I'm too lazy to walk. Aside from swapping IR and B4B, which I should have learned to do ages ago, is there anything I should swap?

(back in topic, Lucrezia have the benefit of having servers right next to them, reducing immensely their latency and so on - so assuming what I said is not a fairy tale, I think that's part of why your assumptions are lower than their output.)

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My opener is:

(LegS)HT > (IR) ID > (BfB) DisemB > (PS) CT > (Jump) Phleb > (DFD) TT > (SSD) VT > (LifeS) FT > (LegS) HT.

This is because I'm always behind the tank and hit as soon as he pulls. I throw in Legsweep first because it's so quick and off GCD that I can use a HT straight after, making it not even slow down my rotation. Also, it's up straight up again at the end just before HT drops off.

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Originally Posted by Jeckyl_Tesla

My opener is:

(LegS)HT > (IR) ID > (BfB) DisemB > (PS) CT > (Jump) Phleb > (DFD) TT > (SSD) VT > (LifeS) FT > (LegS) HT.

This is because I'm always behind the tank and hit as soon as he pulls. I throw in Legsweep first because it's so quick and off GCD that I can use a HT straight after, making it not even slow down my rotation. Also, it's up straight up again at the end just before HT drops off.

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Think I've seen a few people do this. You do this, don't you Yanz?

But if you know exactly where the tank is going to pull, wouldn't it be better to go with the HT?

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Originally Posted by HulveinBlitz

Think I've seen a few people do this. You do this, don't you Yanz?

But if you know exactly where the tank is going to pull, wouldn't it be better to go with the HT?

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After parsing it over and over and trying different openings, this has yielded the highest DPS. LegS is offGCD so at the maximum, I sacrifice around 0.1 millisecond off my rotation since it's such a fast animation and HT hits instantly after you use it too. And the payoff is I get an extra offgcd within my opener.

I don't know the maths behind it, but it works perfectly for me.

Also question: I'm thinking of getting my DRG Zodiac. Currently I have HA and T10 is almost down. Given some time, I should be able to get IWS. Not sure if I'll get DW before Zodiac though. My main question is: How much better is the Zodiac compared to the IWS and Dreadwyrm? Is it worth getting?

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Originally Posted by Jeckyl_Tesla

Also question: I'm thinking of getting my DRG Zodiac. Currently I have HA and T10 is almost down. Given some time, I should be able to get IWS. Not sure if I'll get DW before Zodiac though. My main question is: How much better is the Zodiac compared to the IWS and Dreadwyrm? Is it worth getting?

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At the moment the Zodiac is better than the i120 Iron Works weapon, but the i130 version and the Dreadwyrm one surpasses it. However, the Zodiac is getting another upgrade some time this month. It will be upgraded to at least i130 (making it the second best weapon in game), but if it gets upgraded to i135 then it will be best in slot.

imo getting zodiac+using the poetics you'd have used on the spear on other things is better. no math behind it and it'd depend on the rest of your gear set up, but that's just my 2 cents. that, and t10/t11/t12 dps checks should be quite passable now (before enrage for t10/t11 and 4 bennu for t12), so since you're working on t10, i'd just work towards the zodiac that'll get i130 or higher in 3 weeks

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Originally Posted by Hakmatic

I wasnt talking about t10. I was talking about t13, which is what dervy had originally posted.

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oic

dps in t13 depends on other things more than personal skill after you start clearing it tbh. specifically, when trying to push high numbers, it can be difficult because of the timed portion of p3

though groups that want to pad one player's dps can do so by pushing into divebombs before 2nd rage with a shadow and then always leaving something up for 1 person to attack during p3. playing it out "normally" results in downtime which only increases as the group is more geared. so theoretically you could get 600+ unmerged in t13, you'd just have to set it up, execute it, and then get lucky with earth shakers in p4. i dont think anyones cares enough to do something as dumb as that, since 10/11 are already good measuring sticks

http://a.pomf.se/xojbeq.png is cc's most recent/highest, with a death

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Originally Posted by HulveinBlitz

Think I've seen a few people do this. You do this, don't you Yanz?

But if you know exactly where the tank is going to pull, wouldn't it be better to go with the HT?

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I do HT (IR BFB) ID (xpot) disembowel (power surge leg sweep) ct (jump) phleb (dfd) TT (SSD) VT (life surge) FT

I do ht first since I don't like delaying my first ht with a leg sweep but I didn't do math on which is better

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kbX-...ature=youtu.be

Here's my Opener.

IR as tank walks up to boss, PS as soon as lob/tomahawk goes out

HT >B4B > ID >XPot > Dis >Jump > CT >Leg > Phleb > DfD/SSD > TT > SSD/DfD > VT >LifeSurge > FT

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Originally Posted by BristolRuss

but the i130 version and the Dreadwyrm one surpasses it.

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Its kind of funny, If you meld full Crit Det into it, the Longinus actually weighs higher than the Augmented ironworks spear.

ironworks has 1 extra point of weapon damage and 3 extra points of strength while the longinus would have +10 Det and +49 crit

Ironworks: 545.941

Full Crit/Det Longinus: 547.699

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Originally Posted by jehuty08

Its kind of funny, If you meld full Crit Det into it, the Longinus actually weighs higher than the Augmented ironworks spear.

ironworks has 1 extra point of weapon damage and 3 extra points of strength while the longinus would have +10 Det and +49 crit

Ironworks: 545.941

Full Crit/Det Longinus: 547.699

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Can't exactly disregard the accuracy on augmented. Add in the stats from the gear you substituted to lower accuracy to compensate for the accuracy on augmented and Longinus is nowhere near better...

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Originally Posted by rickyguo

I do ht first since I don't like delaying my first ht with a leg sweep but I didn't do math on which is better

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Leg Sweep: 130 potency
Leg Sweep with HT + D + BfB + IR buffs: 130 * 1.15 * 1.1 * 1.3 * it's gear-dependent and RNG but let's call it 1.05* = 224.47425 potency #nopotion

20s cooldown = 6.5 pps unbuffed

To break even with 94.47425 extra potency from waiting for buffs at 6.5 pps, you'd need a 14.5345 second head start.

* Because that's very roughly what it is at ~500 crit

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Originally Posted by Dervy

That's waay too late for me. I had to actually pop Invigorate at around 500 TP so Invigorate could be up for the 2nd set of adds. I always ran out of TP by then... I guess I'll have to get my bard to start using Armys Paeon between the two add sets.

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How far are you from getting your zodiac? it helps, a lot. As I said, I have no additional ss either. Its also possible that my team dps is higher than that of the ones you've tried with - imdugud just seems to melt.

Excluding the bard, my static parses 460+ dps each no matter if we're marked for Wild Charge or tethers. I can get to 490-500 if I'm lucky and we hit 5 stacks by the time the first set of adds are dead. I think 9 for the second set, so I'd say my groups overall dps is pretty high for our ilvl.

As for my zodiac, I need 6 more of those atma's. I've been getting so unlucky with drops. That being said, I got 4 of them yesterday lol.

I hate being a casual scrub.

well your static certainly doesn't have any issues with dps lol, your group dps is much higher than the pugs I've been doing it with. Work has been ridiculous the last few months, had to bow out of any statics I might have hoped to join on Leviathan. Just joined a new late night static (late night for them being early morning for me here in London; so I'll get a few hours in before i have to leave for work) so hopefully I can tackle fcob a bit more consistently now.

I'm at a loss to explain it then. I have no issues with tp in that fight. My dps range on kill is 470-490 with a lb3, so maybe I'm not pushing it as hard as I should be. Its either that or the ss.

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Originally Posted by Jeckyl_Tesla

My opener is:

(LegS)HT > (IR) ID > (BfB) DisemB > (PS) CT > (Jump) Phleb > (DFD) TT > (SSD) VT > (LifeS) FT > (LegS) HT.

This is because I'm always behind the tank and hit as soon as he pulls. I throw in Legsweep first because it's so quick and off GCD that I can use a HT straight after, making it not even slow down my rotation. Also, it's up straight up again at the end just before HT drops off.

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I have gotten used to

(PS)HT>(Sweep)>ID>(IR+BFB)>Diss(Pot)>CT(jump)>phleb(DFD)>TT(SSD)>VT(LS)>FT>HT>TT(Sweep)

This has been the only way ive been able to fit all OGCD before FT with a pot, only trick is it can get tricky with lag/ tank doing an awkward pull and which can cause PS to fall off before you jump

Image of full dreadwyrm left side I've manage to obtain. Sadly no spear yet :(

http://cloud-4.steamusercontent.com/...94DF78917F46F/

Ì have the spear, but i'm missing 3 left side pieces T.T. Totally the opposite.


Hey Dervy! Any news on the new topic? =).


Thanks!

I've decided remake the topic for the expansion instead, as a guy called Tenshinaito has done an excellent, up-to-date text guide on the Dragoon.

http://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/commen...date_guide_to/

Having said that, I have the template of the next topic already made. Once we get closer to the expansion, or if there are datamined information about the 50-60 job changes in the DX11 Benchmark/beta (YoshiP said there might be one), then I'll post it.

oh great! Thanks for sharing that document! Will be put to good use.

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Originally Posted by Andyman

Image of full dreadwyrm left side I've manage to obtain. Sadly no spear yet :(

http://cloud-4.steamusercontent.com/...94DF78917F46F/

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Nice, see you are on Behemot! I got the Non-Crafted BiS already, but still need Chest and Feet for Glamour.

Nice to see it on a Highlander. My FC mate got full left side on first or second week, can't remember, but he's Elezen so I saw that I though "Wtf, this set is ridiculous". Guess it was Elezen's fault!

Can't wait to see it on my Midlander. Or in my future Au'ra.