Wow, Wuk Lamat is really single-handedly ruining the DT story...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Naoki34

Well, I'll be back after the first 3 finished zones and...

I have to say it's actually better than I thought. Wuk Lamat is immature, but even the narration assumes it: She's clearly immature at the beginning of Dawntrail.
By one of our answers as an honest opinion about her but No Spoil !

But as the zones and MSQ progress, she gradually matures and more than once, Wuk Lamat surprised me in a good way and she's a class act even with her playful side still intact. As the MSQs go by, I'm up to about level 95 and I like it.

I still don't like the BGM Tuli-Jazz, but that's another matter...

---

Oh don't worry, that will change soon enough.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jameseoakes

It's been a good to for a lot of people on 14 discussion though it's shocking to see it being thrown around so early. Such a great story where it's casuing people to be told to quit 3 days in

---

It's not other peoples' job to get you to enjoy the story, or to agree with your discontent. Stories are a subjective medium of entertainment, and you guys have clearly already decided that it's just the worst thing ever. So what would be the point of trying to discuss it with you further at that point?

I'm quite happy with what I've played through so far. It's a world/character building expansion coming off the tail of the climax to a 10 year story-arc that wrapped up pretty much all of the major plot-lines. My expectations going in were for something much different and slower-paced. Something more akin to ARR. Voice acting has been fine, pacing has been fine, my character's role has been fine. I've enjoyed Wuk Lamat as a newbie point-of-view for Tural, and the setup for the rite of succession and all that, and I've enjoyed getting to explore a bunch of new lore and history. Sorry you don't, but as far as I can tell, there are plenty of people that ARE enjoying it. Not sure what you guys are expecting them/us to say?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Frida

For me, Wuk Lamat does not have enough dimensions to be the main character of the story. She also feels a hodge podge of personalities taken from other shounen anime. So, anytime when she takes the lead, it is quite really grating because there is nothing more to it than what she shows.

---

To me it feels really clear that the writers now are mideorce anime writers who don't know how to write game narritives espically RPGs with a player insert

She's not that bad, but the problem is that the story is trying too hard to focus entirely on her the entire time, and she's just not compelling enough for that.
The writing makes it seem like she's incapable of doing ANYTHING on her own, so we're forced to be with her 100% of the time. Would have been better if there were a few instances where she had everything under control and just sent us off to go do whatever and then called us when she was done or when an unexpected emergency happened. She just comments on every single thing, and every single interaction with her is a cutscene where she mostly wastes time repeating what she just said.

Even a better written character like Emet-Selch wasn't completely focused on for the entirety of his expansion. He'd go off and do his own thing so the plot could take the occasional break from him. I guarantee that if he had the same kind of focus the entire time and was forced to be included in every single conversation like Wuk Lamat, he too would have been hated.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Valorak

It's not other peoples' job to get you to enjoy the story....

---

This isn't exactly true. I would argue that's the job of the writing team.

That said, they did do their job where I'm standing. It sort of felt like a microcosm of ARR-EW though. You have to slog through the beginning to get to the good stuff.

I think Wuk Lumat SUCKS

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by jameseoakes

To me it feels really clear that the writers now are mideorce anime writers who don't know how to write game narritives espically RPGs with a player insert

---

It's jarring that we went from the masterpiece that was Shadowbringers to what it is now in Dawntrail. Though to be fair, there were a lot of warning signs with a lot of the narrative issues in Endwalker.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Basteala

This isn't exactly true. I would argue that's the job of the writing team.

That said, they did do their job where I'm standing. It sort of felt like a microcosm of ARR-EW though. You have to slog through the beginning to get to the good stuff.

---

I'm talking about their peers that are telling them that they're free to go play/do something else if they're unhappy with the current story.

I'm not gonna wade into the sphere of the customer/provider-relationship when it comes to creating art/entertainment as a product. That'd be more time than I want to spend on here, lol.

The level 92 solo instance was the first time I actually found myself having fun... And go figure, Wuk Lamat was nowhere to be found.

Also throwing my opinion into the void that wuk lamat has single handedly managed to sour the entire experience. Whenever the WoL is paired with wuk, or we're forced to support her, I just groan and roll my eyes.
The English VA is also incredibly dull and grating to the ears, whoever was in charge of casting her should never be allowed an opinion again. I mute the game and read for myself whenever she speaks, it's beyond irritating.

Bring back Zenos and have him chop Wuk in half, kill the baby mamool and have him duel us again for 7.1. Anythings better then this slop.

I'm at the cutscenes after the level 95 dungeon, and Wuk Lamat is really growing on me. It takes a while, but she starts to get a lot more likable. Not spoiling anything, but all of my grievances were addressed and taken into account. Except the voice acting. that's still pretty bad.
Like I said in my last post, the only expansions with a good opening are Shadowbringers, and Heavensward. Mostly because of their intriguing lead-up. Dawntrail has pretty much zero leadup for the first time since ARR.
Yeah, it took like 10 hours to get to a good point in this story, but it takes like 100 hours to get to a good point in the whole game's story from the beginning.
Stick it out, and you'll probably start having a good time. I'd still put it around the level of the Ala Mhigo segments of Stormblood, which technically makes it the second worst, but still far more enjoyable than other game stories.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Chyro

This argument is just bad. Why would anyone pretend to like a character they dislike? That makes no sense.

Just played a bit more today in the 92 range of story quests, and still enjoying it. I don't mind her character, voice or our role at her side. Did a longer post back on page 26 about what I like about her, so don't feel like repeating it all here.

If people hate her that much, they're free to just skip through the story if it's so unbearable to have her along and as the focus of the story. Or if it completely ruins the game for them, there's other games out there. I do find it a bit hard to understand what's so horrible or annoying about her that it would completely ruin the experience. I feel like people make it harder on themselves by focusing too hard on the things that upset them, paying more attention to it which ends up upsetting them more. But eh. I'm probably in the minority that just enjoys the story and characters and still bothers to visit the forums and topics like this. It is kinda entertaining though :D

---

*If you don't like her then just skip the story you paid for*
Again, I think they are only pretending to like her, because of their va or because they are furries. There is actually nothing to like about this character.

Just finished the MSQ. Oh boy, where do I start. For reference, I ended up skipping most of the cutscenes around the last 98 level quest because I had had enough of it all.

No spoilers of course.

There were elements that I actually enjoyed, some very touching scenes and interesting concepts brought forth but, for the majority of the expansion is was akin to an ultimate, ultimate test of patience.

Wuk Lamat is a symptom of a much bigger problem and it all starts with the hook of the expansion. I tried to give it the benefit of the doubt but I, and by extension my WOL, wanted no part with it. Wuk Lamat is not a compelling character and she's played for more laughs then a studio sound track. The constant proclamations of becoming the Lion King tied to her chronic sea/air sickness being played for laughs, her falling into pit holes among a myriad of other childish antics leave me feeling like I'm escorting a toddler.

The only times I laughed were unintended by the developers, I guarantee you. The 93 quests after the dungeon involving Erenville for example.

Even characters designed to force a laugh make me uncomfortable.

The Twins have no place here and the paper thin excuse for why they have come along is laughable at best.

The nonsensical choices they make with the structure of the world and the characters and LACK OF ACTUAL STAKES AND CONSEQUENCES only further my disdain for having to it through it. I savoured a BRIEF sigh of relief when the contest was finished. I have two minutes where I got to travel with a companion I was infinitely more comfortable with. I was excited to get back to just...being the WOL and helping people solve their problems, no matter how small they would be. But the writers could not get off their high horse and had to shove mention of Wuk Lamat into even that. The character we do meet and help out is a one-note carbon copy of her with no endearing qualities.

Solution 9 was where things started getting my attention again and I found myself really enjoying the narrative until....they introduced one character who I will not name but was shoehorned in for a forced emotional scene down the line. There was another character they introduced who was a genuine joy, extremely well voice acted and charismatic. I wish they had been a travelling companion but...I digress, I don't want to spoil what happens to them.

The sheer background Deus Ex Machina that happens towards the end, in cutscene no less, was my breaking point. Much like the entire story feeling forced, the fact that a resolution to a major conflict was resolved so....effortlessly and without reverence for the work and good will that had been built from the previous expansion is just....saddening, heart breaking.

The "final villain" of the story is shallow and uninteresting and a poor opposition to the theme that Wuk Lamat has been shouting at us for nigh on 40 hours.

As someone who liked a lot of what Endwalker did (not all mind you) and who ADORED Shadowbringers, I have never felt so...emotionally dejected and upset for the story that I went through. As far as I'm concerned, Dawntrail never happened.

Aaaand i'm finally done with the MSQ. Objectively much worse than Stormblood, and subjectively less enjoyable than ARR.

When the first half of the Story was over i prayed to all the Gods that we don't have to babysit her along into the next part.....

Of course we do..... I can't stand her and every Cutscene she is placed into i just sigh and skip by now. She is a furred Disney princess with a knick in her disc and reflects that perfectly in her personality.

PLEASE Square PLEASE let her stay at home for the next patches.

Jesus reading the comments here is making me dread continuing the story and I'm not even at the halfway point.

How could they drop the ball so hard on this, has this been addressed or acknowledged by the devs at all?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Swad

Bring back Zenos and have him chop Wuk in half, kill the baby mamool and have him duel us again for 7.1. Anythings better then this slop.

---

Don't threaten me with a good time.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheBlueRogue

Jesus reading the comments here is making me dread continuing the story and I'm not even at the halfway point.

How could they drop the ball so hard on this, has this been addressed or acknowledged by the devs at all?

---

Depends on how JP reacts usually. I don't think devs even care about complaining unless it's JP, even though we are also paying customers.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by arstoka

The Twins have no place here and the paper thin excuse for why they have come along is laughable at best.

---

I just cleared the first trial, so slacking behind the curve for msq progress but this stood out to me. The twins have contributed nothing until now. I keep giving them an eyebrow whenever they appear on screen because they are starting to stand out with their lack of direction. No significant dialogue or points of conversation. No calls for decisions. They are just there. Urianger and Thancred aren't even on our team and they've been more engaging than the twins.

So basically, what everyone in the Endwalker thread saw coming and said was going to happen for nearly two years despite being endlessly riffed on for it, actually happened, and the playerbase is finally learning what happens when you ignore openly shoddy writing because it's your favourite scrunkly delivering it.

I'd say "I told you so", but the multitude of threads on the front page alone screaming about the story are kind of doing that for me.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lunaxia

So basically, what everyone in the Endwalker thread saw coming and said was going to happen for nearly two years despite being endlessly riffed on for it, actually happened, and the playerbase is finally learning what happens when you ignore openly shoddy writing because it's your favourite scrunkly delivering it.

I'd say "I told you so", but the multitude of threads on the front page alone screaming about the story are kind of doing that for me.

---

I was not a fan of 6.0 in hindsight, nor 6.X during it. I was hoping that with 7.0, even though the previous stuff didn't land for me and some of us weren't happy, we'd get to have a "clean slate" so to speak. You know, bygones be bygones, look to the future. Even if I'm not a fan of the gameplay changes, at least I can get immersed in the story, surely.

I never could have imagined it going this off the rails. This is something I'd make up to spite someone. I didn't bring out my lorebooks to cross reference material until LEVEL 97, over 30 hours in.

Somewhere, Theodric weeps, I'm sure of that.

The main writer is a failed theatre writer that bankrupted his own business with his "good" writing. It was doomed from the start. Only Ishikawa can salvage this.

I've finally finished the MSQ and, hoo boy...

In retroperspetive, the first 60-70% of the MSQ were extremely lengthy and exhausting. Partly thanks to our new beloved best friend Woke Doormat, of course, but also because of the strange pacing and the sheer amount of cutscenes.

Truth be told, I was so desperate for some action and when the first trial finally arrived, I could hardly wait to get started. I probably even said "Hell yeah, finally." out loud in that moment. Just like my WoL, who was apparently also happy that there was finally a menacing beast to fight. Zenos really left his mark on all of us...rest in spaghetti, never forgetti...


From level 96-97 it slowly started to get more interesting. A turning point that is really good in itself, but unfortunately came far too late to turn things around. At this point I was already so annoyed by Wuk and so tired of all the previous quests that I couldn't really enjoy the finale. Even though I really, truthfully wanted to enjoy it. But then...

SPOILER 3rd trial->>

...Wuk appeared during the end of the last fight, and I just wanted to bang my head against a wall. It was so stupid. So dumb. But at the same time, weirdly consistent with the whole tone of the expansion so far. /sigh

I just pray that the devs will realize that Wuk isn't really popular and sideline her for the next patches. Similar to what they unfortunately did with Hien.

EDIT: No, I take that back. hien had much involovement after StB MSQ. Please don't do this with Wuk, thank you.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CosmoBabylonia

Depends on how JP reacts usually. I don't think devs even care about complaining unless it's JP, even though we are also paying customers.

---

If a thread on Reddit is to be believed, a good portion of JP isn't very fond of the story. And yes ofc going to address the common argument that is brought up all the time - blah blah blah only people who are dissatisfied complain blah blah blah forums/reddit are haters blah. So? If enough people are upset including people who have liked HW-EW like myself, perhaps there is an issue?

Some comment highlights include:

- The overworld msq is on the level of sidequests. Honestly we should've let the Ascians kill everyone on this continent

- When they said vacation, did they mean including to other games

- Even if it's the starting point for the next 10 year saga did they have to go as far as copying 2.0's slog?

and my personal favorite:

- Yoshida's turtle shirt referred to this, huh?

Ultimately I think there is nothing wrong with the most bland of shounen protags in the form of Wuk Lamat. Even though I'm sure many jrpg fans are tired of this so many times over. I think it is a case of grieving what we had in terms of storytelling and characters. You give shounen protags their own series, you don't make them the focal point of the new page of such a legacy. Wuk Lumat is out of her depth for what she has to measure up to. She also isn't much of a charismatic looking character. It's a big bowl of medicority.

The Endwalker post-game questline was one of the worst stretches in the game to date. The fact that they used Golbez and dragged in reference stuff that hard was so awful, and harmed the integrity of the story so much, but Dawntrail is still worse so far. The writing up to the halfway point is all completely meaningless. Wuk Lamat just does shit and then she always succeeds and wins and then it's over after lots of suffering (for the player). The "cultures" all consist of a piece of bread or "town where everyone trades, town where everyone crafts", and then everyone looks at each other and smiles and then it ends. Her voice acting is terrible and her personality is just annoying. Easily top 5 worst character in the game so far and even all the filler trash in ARR served more purpose than this.

It's hilarious (in a not funny way) that even NPCs are calling WoL "Third Promise retainer". What other proof we need of our actual "role" in all this?

It's Wuk Lamat's world and we're all just living in it.

Enjoy being the camera man.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Regis_Paran

It's hilarious (in a not funny way) that even NPCs are calling WoL "Third Promise retainer". What other proof we need of our actual "role" in all this?

---

I don't mind that perception but standing menacingly on the sidelines for EVERYTHING so far is a bit aggravating. Should have whacked the First Promise and the two headed one ourselves to save us all the trouble.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tsumdere

If a thread on Reddit is to be believed, a good portion of JP isn't very fond of the story. And yes ofc going to address the common argument that is brought up all the time - blah blah blah only people who are dissatisfied complain blah blah blah forums/reddit are haters blah. So? If enough people are upset including people who have liked HW-EW like myself, perhaps there is an issue?

Some comment highlights include:

- The overworld msq is on the level of sidequests. Honestly we should've let the Ascians kill everyone on this continent

- When they said vacation, did they mean including to other games

- Even if it's the starting point for the next 10 year saga did they have to go as far as copying 2.0's slog?

and my personal favorite:

- Yoshida's turtle shirt referred to this, huh?

---

The Lizard ones are the best. Japanese BBS culture do be like that.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Verathel

I don't mind that perception but standing menacingly on the sidelines for EVERYTHING so far is a bit aggravating. Should have whacked the First Promise and the two headed one ourselves to save us all the trouble.

---

I wouldn't mind it, if it was only a perception. But we are exaclty that.

My only hope is that while Stormblood when it released was considered pretty corny, it eventually grew on people (me included) and introduced some of the most beloved characters.

Endwalker's ending is a VERY hard act to follow...so I'll give them a pass and let them cook...but that dinner better be delicious.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Maxilor

My only hope is that while Stormblood when it released was considered pretty corny, it eventually grew on people (me included) and introduced some of the most beloved characters.

Endwalker's ending is a VERY hard act to follow...so I'll give them a pass and let them cook...but that dinner better be delicious.

---

They just had 40-50 hours to cook and we got nothing for our patience though? Stormblood didn't have the glaring problems DT has, in any case.

I'm trying to be patience but every time the group splits and I get stuck cat sitting I sigh. The few times I was with someone else I was happy.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by TheBlueRogue

Jesus reading the comments here is making me dread continuing the story and I'm not even at the halfway point.

How could they drop the ball so hard on this, has this been addressed or acknowledged by the devs at all?

---

This is pretty much what we are getting

https://i.pinimg.com/originals/a5/28...62f0972c86.jpg

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by OdinelStarrei

I was not a fan of 6.0 in hindsight, nor 6.X during it. I was hoping that with 7.0, even though the previous stuff didn't land for me and some of us weren't happy, we'd get to have a "clean slate" so to speak. You know, bygones be bygones, look to the future. Even if I'm not a fan of the gameplay changes, at least I can get immersed in the story, surely.

I never could have imagined it going this off the rails. I didn't bring out my lorebooks to cross reference material until LEVEL 97, over 30 hours in.

Somewhere, Theodric weeps, I'm sure of that.

---

I can't really blame anyone for wanting to be optimistic, but at the same time the writing was on the wall for all of this for a while that indicated 6.0's flaws weren't a flub but a new direction they were actively choosing to take. DT turned out exactly how I knew it would, and I was under no illusions about where things were heading after what we were shown in EW. The only thing that does surprise me is the outcry against Wuk's character, because I feel like what we saw her of in the trailer alone was more than enough to tell you exactly what we were going to get. The only thing missing was a "believe it!", and I don't know where fans were looking if they expected anything else.

But the juvenile writing, goofy slapstick, flat characterisation and blunt-force parable preaching were all right there in Endwalker, and only grew more glaring with each Void patch. It was just propped up by characters that had the benefit of being developed during the game's zenith who were beloved by the community, and the years of anticipation and build-up the story had behind it. Without those factors doing the heavy lifting and painting over the cracks, you get... well, this. Wuk herself isn't even really the problem, just a symptom of it.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Godzillaxpowerrangers

I get stuck cat sitting I sigh. The few times I was with someone else I was happy.

---

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...7f1ebcb57dd22&

Bro... so harsh...

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Lunaxia

I can't really blame anyone for wanting to be optimistic, but at the same time the writing was on the wall for all of this for a while that indicated 6.0's flaws weren't a flub but a new direction they were actively choosing to take. DT turned out exactly how I knew it would, and I was under no illusions about where things were heading after what we were shown in EW. The only thing that does surprise me is the outcry against Wuk's character, because I feel like what we saw her of in the trailer alone was more than enough to tell you exactly what we were going to get. The only thing missing was a "believe it!", and I don't know where fans were looking if they expected anything else.

But the juvenile writing, goofy slapstick, flat characterisation and blunt-force parable preaching were all right there in Endwalker, and only grew more glaring with each Void patch. It was just propped up by characters that had the benefit of being developed during the game's zenith who were beloved by the community, and the years of anticipation and build-up the story had behind it. Without those factors doing the heavy lifting and painting over the cracks, you get... well, this. Wuk herself isn't even really the problem, just a symptom of it.

---

I really hate how much I agree with you. I have a feeling that if Square doesn't address this with a liveletter within a month, a lot of fans will be jumping ship that feel like they haven't been heard in the last 2 years. The amount of people saying "I'm done with this" and the amount saying "Let's see where it goes" seems to be a lot more equal than it used to be.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Larom

I really hate how much I agree with you. I have a feeling that if Square doesn't address this with a liveletter within a month, a lot of fans will be jumping ship that feel like they haven't been heard in the last 2 years. The amount of people saying "I'm done with this" and the amount saying "Let's see where it goes" seems to be a lot more equal than it used to be.

---

Not just for this, either. That's kinda the way people have been leaning for a lot of things. Job Design, content design, even character design. I wonder if any of the team that gave us the best parts of the game are even around anymore, cause man, does it feel like the only one putting out high quality work is the sound team. Even if some of the choices are... interesting in DT.