Regarding the Revision of the Prohibited Activities and Account Penalty Policy

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Originally Posted by Lium

Correction. It is only dividing the American playerbase. The Japanese playerbase, from what others have said, don't seem to give a crap.

Shocking that Americans are freaking out that they can't be dicks to others now. Whatever will they do?!

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You just broke the new rules.
Please refer to my post on page 44 for more details on JP.

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Originally Posted by Lium

Correction. It is only dividing the American playerbase. The Japanese playerbase, from what others have said, don't seem to give a crap.

Shocking that Americans are freaking out that they can't be dicks to others now. Whatever will they do?!

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Its not about being rude, its about people having the policy to feel offended for the most mundane things ever. Potentially being punished for providing constructive criticism on how to play a job is ludicrous.

Its as someone said, they added a axe over our heads that can come down at any minute. Regardless of them saying they wont use it doesnt change the fact the axe is still there and can be used at their discretion.

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Originally Posted by Lium

Correction. It is only dividing the American playerbase. The Japanese playerbase, from what others have said, don't seem to give a crap.

Shocking that Americans are freaking out that they can't be dicks to others now. Whatever will they do?!

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Perhaps if half of us weren't out to get the other half, then maybe we'd trust each other a little more.

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Originally Posted by Lium

Correction. It is only dividing the American playerbase. The Japanese playerbase, from what others have said, don't seem to give a crap.

Shocking that Americans are freaking out that they can't be dicks to others now. Whatever will they do?!

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Discriminatory expressions about a state/religion/occupation/organisation, etc.

Be careful. Its weird to defend the current vague rules by then breaking one of the vague rules.

/10char

https://img2.finalfantasyxiv.com/acc...409238cd14.png

I'm Japanese and I can say pretty confidently that most of my friends and I see these rule changes as not really a big deal and more for just the US side of things -- in effect, there won't be any real difference in the way JPN play since most all of what is considered 'new' changes were pretty much understood to be common courtesy anyway. Maybe a little clarification was needed, but no one really cares since nothing changes except for that playerbase. Here in the US, however, I can see how these changes might seem downright harsh, but in the end it just comes down to being respectful. Every report will be looked at, chat logs analyzed, and wrongful reports punished so people don't abuse them.

Also, in response to someone who posted that the rules need to be exact and much more focused, they actually need to be subtle so that individual context can be considered. If they were exact, people would carefully scrutinize them to find the best way to get around them using the 'letter of the law' rather then intent. Being vague allows the GMs more leeway to truly examine each situation and apply the rules as needed.

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Originally Posted by frostmagemari

There needs to be clear rules, clear boundaries of behavior and conduct.

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These new rules are pretty darn clear to me (with the exception of the "intentionally leaving" part, but another poster clarified that). And I think this is 46 pages of cultural freakout. Americans don't like ANYTHING that can be seen as restricting freedom of speech, even if no real restriction exists. We just like to over react because that's what Americans do.

For example. If I was running a PUG dungeon and I noticed the SMN wasn't using any DOTs, and I said to them "Hey summoner, use your dots lol" and the SMN responded with "Don't tell me how to play my job! Reported!" (This actually happened once, but it was the tank who told the SMN to use their dots.), I could guarantee you nothing would happen to me. Because the GM would look at the chat logs and see I wasn't being snarky or antagonistic. If I had said something along the lines of what you would see in WoW or LoL, then yes, I'd get in trouble. And rightfully so.

There is a clear distinction here.

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Originally Posted by Lium

These new rules are pretty darn clear to me (with the exception of the "intentionally leaving" part, but another poster clarified that). And I think this is 46 pages of cultural freakout. Americans don't like ANYTHING that can be seen as restricting freedom of speech, even if no real restriction exists. We just like to over react because that's what Americans do.

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You do realize that not all of us are American, right? Canadians and people from Europe play this game too.

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Originally Posted by Lium

These new rules are pretty darn clear to me (with the exception of the "intentionally leaving" part, but another poster clarified that). And I think this is 46 pages of cultural freakout. Americans don't like ANYTHING that can be seen as restricting freedom of speech, even if no real restriction exists. We just like to over react because that's what Americans do.

For example. If I was running a PUG dungeon and I noticed the SMN wasn't using any DOTs, and I said to them "Hey summoner, use your dots lol" and the SMN responded with "Don't tell me how to play my job! Reported!" (This actually happened once, but it was the tank who told the SMN to use their dots.), I could guarantee you nothing would happen to me. Because the GM would look at the chat logs and see I wasn't being snarky or antagonistic. If I had said something along the lines of what you would see in WoW or LoL, then yes, I'd get in trouble. And rightfully so.

There is a clear distinction here.

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You realise NA includes all of North and South America, Caribbeans and many OCE and EU players that play. This isnt an "American" thing.

Your post is quite offensive to exclude others according to the new revisions to policy.

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Originally Posted by Lium

Correction. It is only dividing the American playerbase. The Japanese playerbase, from what others have said, don't seem to give a crap.

Shocking that Americans are freaking out that they can't be dicks to others now. Whatever will they do?!

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This post is a good example of why they changed the rules.

Rules should be clear and concise enough that you know exactly when you commit an offence. Murphy's law is the reasoning. "If something can go wrong, it will."

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Originally Posted by zztoluca

You realise NA includes all of North and South America, Caribbeans and many OCE and EU players that play. This isnt an "American" thing.

Your post is quite offensive to exclude others according to the new revisions to policy.

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And players from Europe, the Caribbean, etc. are - in general - not nearly as boorish as we are. (We being Americans.) As another poster pointed out, these rules seem mostly aimed directly at players in the United States.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

I’m all for a positive environment, but getting in trouble because you’re asking for a basic level of contribution from someone who may be underperforming seems odd.

They just make me want to interact with people less often because it’s easier to drop them and never tell them that they could get better.
I’d now sooner ghost a player than help them improve. And I’ve never been abrasive when doing this. People have regularly been resistant to help since the start for whatever reason, and it’s for that reason there is now just a “risk” involved with nearly any interaction.

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Then, with all due respect to you, you shouldn't have a problem with this policy because it's essentially only changing the way you approach this. Since the launch of the game in 2013 it has always, and always will be, possible to ask for a 'basic level of contribution' from another player. What ISN'T acceptable is the oft-seen-on-reddit, in-game (and in the tales from the duty finder thread) approach to asking for this basic level of contribution which essentially boils down to someone in the party saying a variant of "omg learn to play/dodge/dps/your rotation" followed by an expletive insult or something such as "douche".

If you can't ask someone to pull their weight or to look up a stat/rotation without using a derogatory term or an insult then it says more about you than it does about the player who allegedly 'sucks'. No one can, or will have an issue with constructive advice and/or politeness, and those on the receiving end do not have to take your advice either. That is, essentially, how it has always been in this game.

I'd say; to everyone here; stop looking for reasons and/or excuses for why you don't need to try to foster improvement in others within the community because that is basically what this embittered attitude boils down to here. I think a little self-reflection wouldn't go amiss here.

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Originally Posted by ElazulHP

I can't believe there are 45 pages of people freaking out about essentially nothing. Use common sense and don't be disrespectful to people and you'll be fine. Or perhaps that is the problem? At some fundamental level these people know they're doing something wrong and don't want to be held accountable for their actions or don't want to reign in their behavior? I personally think these are good changes. Thank you Square!

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This is essentially the problem here, SE are finally going to address some of the toxicity within the community, and the first to take issue with that, it could be said, are those who foster and create toxicity. There's no way or knowing, or proving that for certain.... but it is somewhat concerning that people are so incensed by the idea of SE actively doing something in respect of harassment and abuse. No one, no matter how badly they play, deserves to be abused in game. "I'm not going to help new players/others because I can't be a jerk*** while doing so" is the underlying theme to some of the posts here, and I've seen a few comments about it while I was in the new Eureka today. I agree with you, it's a good thing for the community and about time Square did something. I say good on them for moving into 2019.

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Originally Posted by Shuuchi

You are strawmaning and disrespecting people you disagree with. You can be banned under these new rules.
Even people in JP are saying the new rules are unclear and uses many weasel words.
Please refer to my post on page 44 if you want more info.

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I haven't seen any posts by ElazuHP in this thread where they are being 'disrespectful to people they disagree with'. What ElazuHP HAS questioned is whether there is a correlation between negative behaviour and the new consequences of being held accountable for your actions fostering all of the posts here where people have their backs up. Under the new rules both your (!!!) post and mine (oh, the irony!) could be bannable offences since there's some accusational language and passive-aggressive responding in yours with the "please refer" statement and I'm here breaking stuff down in the hope that you will see what is actually happening here with these changes. Where do we draw a line on what is bannable and how we should behave? I think we should ALL be thinking about this and that many here need to put their "I'm right" hats away now.


If you havent done anything wrong then, realistically, you have nothing to worry about.

I think all the people who aren't skeptical of these changes are not properly applying the veil of ignorance on these rules. They operate under the assumption "I won't ever fall afoul of them because (In their own opinion) I'm a nice, respectful person."
The problem is it doesn't matter who you are. It only matters who the offended party is and the person deciding if you need to be punished. The rules as they are, are too vague and too easily weaponized.
Vagueness doesn't make rules better, it just makes them more powerful.

One thing read out of proper context and you are now hit with a caution or a warning. This then makes further action taken against you easier if it's malicious in nature or even if you're just unlucky enough to meet a few people who think what you're
saying is worthy of reporting and a few GMs who agree with them, either just because lack of context, or time or energy to properly investigate. This is assuming you're innocent ofc. If you think all the GMs can apply 100% attention and energy to every report that will be made...it's just not going to happen.

I'd like to believe that the people in charge of enforcing these rules are decent people with a fair sense of right and wrong, unfortunately we don't know that.
We also don't know what actually IS an offense or an infraction because they are so subjective, doubly so, the subjective interpretation of whoever puts in the report and then the GM who has to deal with it.
I'd also like to fall back on common sense and general courtesy being enough, but honestly the way the world is today...common sense is vanishingly rare and courtesy is subjective.

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Originally Posted by Lium

These new rules are pretty darn clear to me (with the exception of the "intentionally leaving" part, but another poster clarified that). And I think this is 46 pages of cultural freakout. Americans don't like ANYTHING that can be seen as restricting freedom of speech, even if no real restriction exists. We just like to over react because that's what Americans do.

For example. If I was running a PUG dungeon and I noticed the SMN wasn't using any DOTs, and I said to them "Hey summoner, use your dots lol" and the SMN responded with "Don't tell me how to play my job! Reported!" (This actually happened once, but it was the tank who told the SMN to use their dots.), I could guarantee you nothing would happen to me. Because the GM would look at the chat logs and see I wasn't being snarky or antagonistic. If I had said something along the lines of what you would see in WoW or LoL, then yes, I'd get in trouble. And rightfully so.

There is a clear distinction here.

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There isn't a clear distinction, because as i said.. it is all up the discretion of the GM dealing with the case because the rule are so open ended, and you're lobbing softball situations to aid your argument, just like some are going overboard to aid theirs.

I can guarantee one thing will come out of this; ticket overload. GMs will be over taxed by the increase in tickets, which will mean SQE has to do one of two things; The first will be spending more money to hire more GMs (which.. c'mon now.. c'mon..) or two, they will insist that GMs deal with cases quicker (which is the more likely option). As seen with other companies(both game and non game), when it's demanded that you resolve situations quickly, it is much more common to not take the time needed to give an impartial ruling or take all the facts of a situation into account.

You will get snap rulings, you will get unneeded or undeserved punishments or situations where punishments should be put out won't be; and if you don't think we will, that's naive.

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Originally Posted by Lium

And players from Europe, the Caribbean, etc. are - in general - not nearly as boorish as we are. (We being Americans.) As another poster pointed out, these rules seem mostly aimed directly at players in the United States.

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As I said before this isnt an American thing. This doesn't fly with any of my Latino friends or Canadians, they arent American and can see the flaws in these policies.

A boorsih person isnt confined to one region in the world, a very narrow view to have.

I don't understand the mentality permeating this thread that this won't change the way anything is enforced. Why would SE grant GMs powers and then not use them? If what they're actually going to enforce is different, why not write that down instead?

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Originally Posted by Lium

And players from Europe, the Caribbean, etc. are - in general - not nearly as boorish as we are. (We being Americans.) As another poster pointed out, these rules seem mostly aimed directly at players in the United States.

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Are you saying Americans are boorish? That's a rules violation there friend, I'm going to have to ask you to leave.

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Originally Posted by MirielleLavandre

Also, in response to someone who posted that the rules need to be exact and much more focused, they actually need to be subtle so that individual context can be considered. If they were exact, people would carefully scrutinize them to find the best way to get around them using the 'letter of the law' rather then intent. Being vague allows the GMs more leeway to truly examine each situation and apply the rules as needed.

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That's the conclusion I came to as well.
The new rules seem to be meant to give GMs unlimited power in order to resolve/react to the variety of situations that may occur in game.

However, power corrupts and absolute power absolutely corrupts. I for one don't trust every GM to be unbiased and adhere to professionalism in every situation.
Also, if SE gets swarmed by tickets, we may end up with a system similar to WoW where if enough people spam report against someone, the system automatically bans him/her until the ticket is resolved, which can take days if not weeks.

It's a problem I'd rather not have to deal with a year or two down the line.

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Originally Posted by SixtyLove

I haven't seen any posts by ElazuHP in this thread where they are being 'disrespectful to people they disagree with'.

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This is precisely my issue with this whole kerfuffle.
Toxicity is subjective. You will not see someone who agrees with you as toxic no matter what he/she does. It's a part of being human.
GMs are not machines - they are humans too.

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Originally Posted by Lium

And players from Europe, the Caribbean, etc. are - in general - not nearly as boorish as we are. (We being Americans.) As another poster pointed out, these rules seem mostly aimed directly at players in the United States.

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You're being racist....to say that just because i am a american that i am a boorish person? That is generalizing an entire group of people and then insulting them based them being a part of that group. It's an extremely childish thing to say and is only counterproductive in the sense that you claim that more respect is what we need while at the same time hypocritically stating such things as this. I am reporting you for harassing me based on racist generalized statements. No seriously i'm reporting you.

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Originally Posted by Mizunoko

That is generalizing.

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Yes, it is. Read the word in between the hyphens very carefully.

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Originally Posted by SixtyLove

Then, with all due respect to you, you shouldn't have a problem with this policy because it's essentially only changing the way you approach this. Since the launch of the game in 2013 it has always, and always will be, possible to ask for a 'basic level of contribution' from another player. What ISN'T acceptable is the oft-seen-on-reddit, in-game (and in the tales from the duty finder thread) approach to asking for this basic level of contribution which essentially boils down to someone in the party saying a variant of "omg learn to play/dodge/dps/your rotation" followed by an expletive insult or something such as "douche".

If you can't ask someone to pull their weight or to look up a stat/rotation without using a derogatory term or an insult then it says more about you than it does about the player who allegedly 'sucks'. No one can, or will have an issue with constructive advice and/or politeness, and those on the receiving end do not have to take your advice either. That is, essentially, how it has always been in this game.

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I have never used a derogatory term or any insult when asking people to improve. Asking a WHM to use Cure II instead as Cure III is an AOE and not what they’d want for our dungeon run ended up with me getting half an hour of tells about how I shouldn’t tell them what to do, they don’t need help, and how they don’t want help. Mentioning to a new tank that pulling the wolfsbane mobs will stop them from spitting poison pools on the ground ended up with me being “an elitist”. Asking a tank to flash as he’s losing mobs. Or asking a healer to throw a few dps skills instead of standing and waiting for the next time a cure is needed.

It’s not about the way I offer help. I wish it was, that way I could fix it.
People just don’t want unsolicited advice, even when they could really use it.

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Originally Posted by NanaWiloh

So many people taking these rules to the EXTREME Worst possible scenario's. *facepalm*

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People said the same thing about Bill C16 in Canadian codes a couple of years ago. Then someone was fired, thrown before a committee and threatened with arrest for showing a video of someone she disagreed with for the purposes of debating his points.
People said the same thing about Communism, and now there are 100 million corpses at the feet of the ideology in the last century alone.
People said the same thing about the National Socialist party, then the Holocaust happened.
People said the same thing about how Christians kept talking about the 'slippery slope' twenty years ago, now people are being sued for not putting a figure on top of a cake.

So now that that's out of the way, let's tackle each section individually.

Harrassment:
General statement:

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"Harassment" means speech and/or behaviour that inflicts deep emotional distress on another person. It is an extremely serious violation. Where Square Enix determines that harassment has occurred, a penalty equal to or higher than "Temporary Service Account Suspension" may be imposed.

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There are two issues with this, first is that it is incredibly vague. Anything that 'inflicts deep emotional distress on another person' is an incredibly wide range of coverage, and doesn't account for each individual person's level of neuroticism. People low in neuroticism can handle basically anything and shrug it off, people extremely high in neuroticism think that if you log off abruptly it must mean you're a terrible person that doesn't deserve a 'good night'. The second is that who gets to decide what is harassment or not? There is only one guarantee, that it's not going to be the kind of person you want deciding it, because the kind of person you want making that kind of decision is not looking to be judge and jury over another person, but someone that wants to exercise power over another individual will be attracted to such a role. Who are our modern day authoritarians? Are they the people that want to have an open debate, speak freely, and are open to other points of view? Or are they the people that call you a racist, bigot, sexist, nazi, fascist, hate-speech? Are they the people that want evidence when someone accuses someone of something? Or the people that accuse someone of something just to ruin their lives? These are real issues that just a decade ago people that voiced these concerns were told, "You're just taking this to the worst possible scenario."

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Below is a non-exhaustive list of behaviour that could constitute harassment in Final Fantasy XIV:

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Non-Exhaustive, I.E. "Includes but not-limited to." That means that you can't even guarantee that you aren't violating the terms of service if you are extremely careful at following the guidelines listed here. It's an example of exactly the kinds of policies that the Ontario Human-Rights Committee has and uses with the powers granted to them by bill C16. It's a statement of, "We want to solve the problem, but we'll figure out how to do that later." But that doesn't work, because that just means that people will use it against people they don't like. People will use it to gain power for themselves. We have all of human history as evidence for this. The United States was created to throw off authoritarianism.

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・Discriminatory expressions based on race/nationality/thinking/gender/sexual orientation/gender identity

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This is chock full of language that, I wish this wasn't the case, ideologies of the post-modern neo-marxists whose policies have turned San Fransisco into a place filled with homelessness, drugs, and filthy streets. Then once again we have to deal with the vagueness of it, what counts as 'discriminatory expressions'? If you go on Twitter, right now, Someone was banned for stating 'Men are not Women'. It was considered 'Discriminatory'. Once again, this becomes, "Who gets to decide? It's not going to be who you want to decide it."

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・Discriminatory expressions about a state/religion/occupation/organisation, etc.

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Very similar issues to the above, though I have an example of policies like this being abused recently as well. Someone was banned from twitter for stating that Sharia Law discriminates against Homosexuals and abuses women. This is a factual element of Sharia law, but was considered 'discriminatory expressions about religion'.

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・Obscene/indecent expressions

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Obscenity laws in the United States are already absurdly convoluted. But once again, "Who gets to decide? It's not going to be who you want deciding."

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・Actions that inflict emotional distress using content related to historical events or crimes

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The way this is worded, if anyone is emotionally distressed for any reason by the historical examples I stated above about people letting authoritarianism slip past them unnoticed, I've violated this one simply by discussing my concerns.

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・Stalking

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I actually don't have much to say about this other than. Stalking is already socially taboo, though I do actually understand a desire to limit such behavior in an online setting.

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・Disclosing or indicating personal information such as contact details with the aim of meeting up in the real world

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Uhmmm? Why? To protect people from catfishing? I mean I get the reason, but this also means that if I send someone I know IRL my cell number in a private message without thinking about it and a GM or some kind of bot sees it I get banned? Any time you make a rule, you trod on someone elses freedom. Rules to protect people in place of good parenting only cause issues.

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・Disclosing or indicating another person's real world personal information without permission

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This one is actually understandable, as Doxxing is a problem today in all directions, but, how do you decide? No really? How does Square know that I didn't text someone and tell them it's okay to tell someone else my information?

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・Other actions that are generally regarded as actions that inflict deep emotional distress on another person

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Massively vague, open-ended, and absurdly subjective, plus with the quick work of banning without any sort of trial means that this will be abused like the #metoo movement was.

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These are prohibited in all places where expressions can be made, including chat (including Quick Chat and Emote), markers, comments and names. With regard to character names, if a phrase equating to harassment is formed within the full name, this is also regarded as harassment. In the case of a group action, all of the members involved will be subject to penalties.

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This is just a clause to prevent people from working around the chat system, so all of the above and below still apply to this section.

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There may be other types of harassment that do not fit into any of the categories described above. Square Enix may determine that conduct constitutes harassment, even if such conduct is not expressly prohibited herein.

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Much like the 'non-exhaustive' comment above, this just means that someone, that isn't the person you want making these decisions, gets to decide to add on any form of 'harassment' that they want, or decide that 'this person said it's harassment, therefore it is' on a whim.

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■Nuisance behaviour
"Nuisance behaviour" means speech or behaviour that hurts others or obstructs game play, but which is not classified as harassment. Even if it was not the intention, a penalty may be imposed if the end result was that another person was hurt or obstructed.

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This flat out states that your intention doesn't matter, only someone elses feelings. This means that someone can just accuse someone of being hurt by their words for any reasons and get them banned.

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Below is a non-exhaustive list of examples of nuisance behaviour:

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"Includes but is not limited to." Therefore impossible to follow these rules as you don't have a comprehensive list available.

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◆Offensive expression
"Offensive expression" means an expression in general that inflicts emotional distress by being offensive to another person. Offensive expression may include:

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Once again, people will be banned simply for being accused of offending someone.

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・Aggressive expressions such as violent language/slander/insult/threat.

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The game itself is filled with violence, slander, insults, threats... But once again, more importantly, "Who gets to decide? It's not going to be who you want to decide."

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・Expressions that provoke or belittle another person, such as excessive criticism, negation/ridicule

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Who gets to decide?

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・Expressions that significantly lack consideration for another person

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If you speak before ten people, there's a certain chance that one person will find what you say is inconsiderate.
If you speak before on hundred people, there is a large chance that you will say something one person finds inconsiderate.
If you speak before one thousand people, there is an extremely large chance that one person will find you lacking consideration for them.
If you speak before ten thousand people, it's almost guaranteed that someone will find your speech inconsiderate.
It is inevitable that you will be inconsiderate of others.

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・Expressions that unilaterally reject another person's opinion

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If you TL;DR this post, you are unilaterally rejecting much of my opinions in this post.

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・Expressions that any reasonable person would find offensive

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Who gets to decide who is reasonable? There are super far right people that don't consider Centrists reasonable, super far left people don't consider even left wing people reasonable. It's not going to be the person you want deciding.

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・Expressions that compel a playing style

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There are people that play this game that take any advice like this, I've met them. Even saying, "You should probably use Grit." Gets me a, "STOP TELLING ME HOW TO PLAY."

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・Expressions that contravene public order and morals

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Who gets to decide? What Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez deems moral is completely different than what Candace Owens considers moral.

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・Other expressions that are offensive to another person

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Vague and subjective, like much of these policies, someone is going to be offended by something you say. Given an infinite number of trials, everything possible will happen.

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Offensive expressions are prohibited in all places where expressions can be made in Final Fantasy XIV, including chat (including Quick Chat and Emote), markers, comments and names. Use of an offensive expression in the form of a character name is also regarded as nuisance behaviour.

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Once again this is just to prevent workarounds.

The thing that upsets me isn't that there are rules, it's that the rules are vague, and filled with the same language that fills the policies of political idealogues that are once again trying to cram their politics down my throat when I just want to play my video game.

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Originally Posted by blackcitadel9

I think all the people who aren't skeptical of these changes are not properly applying the veil of ignorance on these rules. They operate under the assumption "I won't ever fall afoul of them because (In their own opinion) I'm a nice, respectful person."
The problem is it doesn't matter who you are. It only matters who the offended party is and the person deciding if you need to be punished. The rules as they are, are too vague and too easily weaponized.
Vagueness doesn't make rules better, it just makes them more powerful.

One thing read out of proper context and you are now hit with a caution or a warning. This then makes further action taken against you easier if it's malicious in nature or even if you're just unlucky enough to meet a few people who think what you're
saying is worthy of reporting and a few GMs who agree with them, either just because lack of context, or time or energy to properly investigate. This is assuming you're innocent ofc. If you think all the GMs can apply 100% attention and energy to every report that will be made...it's just not going to happen.

I'd like to believe that the people in charge of enforcing these rules are decent people with a fair sense of right and wrong, unfortunately we don't know that.
We also don't know what actually IS an offense or an infraction because they are so subjective, doubly so, the subjective interpretation of whoever puts in the report and then the GM who has to deal with it.
I'd also like to fall back on common sense and general courtesy being enough, but honestly the way the world is today...common sense is vanishingly rare and courtesy is subjective.

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Here is the line that will make it all clear why some people dont worry.
"SQUARE ENIX MAY SUSPEND, TERMINATE, MODIFY, OR DELETE FFXIV SERVICE ACCOUNTS, CHARACTERS, VIRTUAL GOODS, OR THE SERVICE ALTOGETHER, AT ANY TIME FOR ANY REASON OR FOR NO REASON, WITH OR WITHOUT NOTICE OR LIABILITY TO YOU."

Technically the entire mentor system is dead now with this new policy. Anything you say, tips, hints could be taken the wrong way and you could end up getting your account infracted because someone felt hurt that you recommended them to do an AOE attack.

All we can do now is have faith in the community.

This is meant to be a good thing, I get that. but there is issues in the wording that will get innocent people punished. it upset's a lot of people do to one of the corner stones of morality and law systems has been Blackstone's Ratio. the idea that: It is better that ten guilty persons escape than that one innocent suffer. Not that what I said matters much. Laws and TOS rules are not the same.

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Originally Posted by Canadane

I’m all for a positive environment, but getting in trouble because you’re asking for a basic level of contribution from someone who may be underperforming seems odd.

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It isn't anymore odd than the player who gets upset when another player is trying to help them. The thing is though, if you need to ask for a basic level of contribution as a result of underperforming, it means the run is not going well. It typically means one or multiple players are forcing the others to work harder than they should have to, and this is clear and cut when it is the case. This is much different than interrupting the run to try and optimize someone's rotation, reiterate tooltips, or some other mundane task that will actually add even more time to the run than if you just let it slide. You have to choose your battles.

When tanking for an FC buddy last weekend to help her get some tomes, we came across an AST in Castrum Abania that was underperforming. After several deaths that ended up leading to a couple of wipes, I had to stop the run and ask her if she was having issues, because there was no way we were going to clear the dungeon at the rate things were going. This is an example of when it is ok because it was necessitated, unlike when someone is simply dissatisfied with how someone is playing. In her response she apologized, and said she would try to do better, but understood if we wanted to kick her. I told her of course not! I told her I was a healer main, offered a few tips, and it was a night and day difference. Got through the rest of the dungeon without a hitch, and she thanked and hugged me before leaving.

Now I know receptive players like that are not in abundance, but neither is the patience I showed her. I've advised many players inside duties, and I have never received a lashing from any of them. If they feel attacked, they will attack.

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They just make me want to interact with people less often because it’s easier to drop them and never tell them that they could get better.
I’d now sooner ghost a player than help them improve. And I’ve never been abrasive when doing this. People have regularly been resistant to help since the start for whatever reason, and it’s for that reason there is now just a “risk” involved with nearly any interaction.

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Totally understandable. But the risk has not changed. It was always a risk to critique another player during an instance, which is why I never do so unless absolutely necessary. Otherwise I've always just rolled with the punches, and accepted that DF is a total role of the dice. It is not my job or obligation to improve the gameplay of other players. This is something they have to do, and will pursue to do all on their own.

Can only wonder just what the poor level 1 pen pushers are gonna be dealing with. If anything this is gonna be like a hostile/stressful work environment as is for em, granted my gut is telling me these said level 1's will get authority to pursue some form of punishment if deemed needed, but the broad spectrum of the terms + how easy this will be to abuse (causing mass work load obviously if we wanna just play worse case scenario here), and the already absurd work environments CSR/L1's deal with daily from a corporate entity (which anyone with knowledge in ticketing systems or has worked on, with, or alongside a CSR/Ticket system can attest that a lot of corporations use a SLA system with deadlines of their own). Just how much can we assume the reports will be judged fairly?

I mean, while looking from this on one end, what about the opposite? I.E: The work load that is clearly to occur and the actual effect it can end up having on those workers? Hypothetically this is just my own thoughts and questions on all this, but anyone else wondering how this would affect the people that have to handle the workload just from how broad some of these stuff is, and how that can easily have an effect on their judgment?

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Originally Posted by Lium

And players from Europe, the Caribbean, etc. are - in general - not nearly as boorish as we are. (We being Americans.) As another poster pointed out, these rules seem mostly aimed directly at players in the United States.

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I am european and i dont like those changes at all, and to be honest we are more feed up with this censorship going on around everywhere, since it actually pushes us harder than you americans. We could be prosecuted for what we are writing on the internet, will it be "hate speech" or whatever, someone reporting you in europe for it could deliver you a policemen visiting you in the next coming day, its a nightmare and the UK and Germany are countries where it happens all the time.

So to all you ppl think this will only harm ppl who insult are rudenes, are insult others...

News flash out of 200 ppl banned only 20 are by those reason the other 180 were nice kind people who were never rude...

Before hw on my first account on arr area my bff and i were fishing in upper la nos we didn't know about ls because the game wasn't even 3 weeks old at the time .. so sitting there after 20mins we started talking about random things in party chat... about 40mins in i talked to a fc mate telling them were they could get a certain fish they were after...

Well we were talking about a manga gen <yaoi>,vampirism and mythology a guy and his gang as i call things like that /20 or so ppl just cleared a fate i accident do /say on vlad was a hero and i wish i could clone him to make out lol innocent enough until people start 2 purposely anger me ... so i went to another part of the map and said id pay lord hades 500 cookies for a vampire bite as long as i get the ability to turn ppl into anything i want. Well about four hours later when i was mooching a fish i am teleported 2 the jail thing and the gm was you were report for rmt.. and i was like wth are you talking about then he shared the hades line i wrote i was like really? You know thats a joke as did the person that reported it. Then the response was be careful how you word things so someone will not take it the wrong way gave me a warning over nothing.

2 weeks later i was rping in soundles spot western la noscea as a vampire kitten summoning demons <don't ask lol> well right after i am back in the jail and banned for 3 days because someone felt uncomfortable so o went to the report wrongful ban and found out they don't care if ANY1 reports you saying you made them feel bad or uncomfortable even if you are playing your own way your banned and nothing you can do about it.. even if they really weren't and I'm srry but you don't sit in a spot 3 hours with something that makes you feel bad.

And finnaly about 5 months later i go to try to clear garuda ex but my troll leader made it go 2 ifirt and i was sorta out of it so i let my garuda fight ifirt my own play style and ended up with perm ban because i didn't play the way my team wanted me 2 i wanted smn to be a pet only job and that is how i played it.

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Originally Posted by Nedkel

it could deliver you a policemen visiting you in the next coming day, its a nightmare and the UK and Germany are countries where it is happening all the time.

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Source please.

Also European citizens have a lot of protection, things have come a long way since decades ago. It's probably the US amendment of Freedom of Speech that seems to be at odds with this new policy more than anything, which I think it's why someone brought up the generalising of players from a certain country.

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Originally Posted by MorbolvampireQueen6

So to all you ppl think this will only harm ppl who insult are rudenes, are insult others...

News flash out of 200 ppl banned only 20 are by those reason the other 180 were nice kind people who were never rude...

Before hw on my first account on arr area my bff and i were fishing in upper la nos we didn't know about ls because the game wasn't even 3 weeks old at the time .. so sitting there after 20mins we started talking about random things in party chat... about 40mins in i talked to a fc mate telling them were they could get a certain fish they were after...

Well we were talking about a manga gen <yaoi>,vampirism and mythology a guy and his gang as i call things like that /20 or so ppl just cleared a fate i accident do /say on vlad was a hero and i wish i could clone him to make out lol innocent enough until people start 2 purposely anger me ... so i went to another part of the map and said id pay lord hades 500 cookies for a vampire bite as long as i get the ability to turn ppl into anything i want. Well about four hours later when i was mooching a fish i am teleported 2 the jail thing and the gm was you were report for rmt.. and i was like wth are you talking about then he shared the hades line i wrote i was like really? You know thats a joke as did the person that reported it. Then the response was be careful how you word things so someone will not take it the wrong way gave me a warning over nothing.

2 weeks later i was rping in soundles spot western la noscea as a vampire kitten summoning demons <don't ask lol> well right after i am back in the jail and banned for 3 days because someone felt uncomfortable so o went to the report wrongful ban and found out they don't care if ANY1 reports you saying you made them feel bad or uncomfortable even if you are playing your own way your banned and nothing you can do about it.. even if they really weren't and I'm srry but you don't sit in a spot 3 hours with something that makes you feel bad.

And finnaly about 5 months later i go to try to clear garuda ex but my troll leader made it go 2 ifirt and i was sorta out of it so i let my garuda fight ifirt my own play style and ended up with perm ban because i didn't play the way my team wanted me 2 i wanted smn to be a pet only job and that is how i played it.

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Anyone who has any experience with the GM's in this game or punishment system in general will absolutely be against any of those changes.
It gives them more reasons to ban you, and it is super easy to ban someone if you report them, really.
People were getting banned for saying someone he has low dps, and that was enough to make him banned. With new rules i would advice to delete the chat entirely from the game if you want to play it for longer...

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Originally Posted by Kurando

Source please.

Also European citizens have a lot of protection, things have come a long way since decades ago. It's probably the US amendment of Freedom of Speech that seems to be at odds with this new policy more than anything, which I think it's why someone brought up the generalising of players from a certain country.

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There are countless of news about it, most of them in the country specific language. I dont want to offtopic in this thread, so i could ask you to just trust me on this.

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Originally Posted by Lium

And players from Europe, the Caribbean, etc. are - in general - not nearly as boorish as we are. (We being Americans.) As another poster pointed out, these rules seem mostly aimed directly at players in the United States.

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Originally Posted by Mizunoko

You're being racist....to say that just because i am a american that i am a boring person? That is generalizing an entire group of people and then insulting them based them being a part of that group. It's an extremely childish thing to say and is only counterproductive in the sense that you claim that more respect is what we need while at the same time hypocritically stating such things as this. I am reporting you for harassing me based on racist generalized statements. No seriously i'm reporting you.

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Erm...

boor·ish
Dictionary result for boorish
/ˈbo͝oriSH/
adjective
adjective: boorish

rough and bad-mannered; coarse.

So how exactly do they intend to implement the part of this revision to the tos regarding “intentional” disconnects? I 90k maybe three times a week on average because our net is weak sauce, but the thought of possibly getting reprimanded in game for my isp is absolutely ludicrous.

Also, I want to say that the degree of censorship that is slowly being ushered into this game is getting very worrying. IMO the disappearance of chat in the feast was just the beginning of this censorship crusade from SE.

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Originally Posted by Kurando

Source please.

Also European citizens have a lot of protection, things have come a long way since decades ago. It's probably the US amendment of Freedom of Speech that seems to be at odds with this new policy more than anything, which I think it's why someone brought up the generalising of players from a certain country.

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https://www.nzherald.co.nz/world/new...ectid=12202875

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Originally Posted by redcurrant18

snip

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I guess you'd didn't read the entire article, at the end it clearly mentions the accused was harrasing the victim in several ways, it wasn't just they called this person one wrong thing and then the cops came knocking. It's also from the Daily Mail, a UK publication well known for fake news and/or stirring up drama about things that isn't really necessary.

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There are countless of news about it, most of them in the country specific language. I dont want to offtopic in this thread, so i could ask you to just trust me on this.

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Well sorry I kinda don't. As a Brit I don't see enough news about such things in the media to agree with it hence why I asked you for a source, otherwise it's just a bold statement to say that something happens all the time when it actually doesn't.