Compromise: Just Charge $5 For Now. Once 2.0 is Out, Then Charge $12

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Originally Posted by AmyRae

What I'm trying to get through here, is that the first group is well-served no matter the price of the game. It's not as though they would choose not to play if they had to play less for the service.

The second group may represent a substantial number of players who won't pay full price, but who would pay a lower price. The reasons for this may vary greatly, but they generally revolve around the current state of the game, and the feeling it's not ready for prime time. If a lower price can generate more income by retaining a lot more people than what you would get by charging full price, the first group suffers no ill effects. On the contrary, they will benefit in the savings and participate in more active servers as a result.

It therefore seems illogical that the first group would want to fight the notion of the second group since they are not harmed in any way, no matter the results of the inquiry.

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its confusing as hell right? why would you be against it at all, unless your some pride stricken fan boy?

Hence why I said for people to find an agreeable, justifiable means to their answers. Some from the first group are just tired of seeing insignificant whining over what could well be a compromised issue. Instead, I find disparaging remarks, insulting comments, mindless complaints and lack of a definite reason from some if the second group. Admittedly, some approach those problems with not the best arms, but there is an ethical side of things of which the second group is equally guilty of, if not more.

Truly though, some members of the first group would also consider the lasting effects of such a compromise. Would it slow down development, or limit the value of the game as they know it? Would such an outcry last well-past it's used by date with the new version, with a vast majority of players unwilling to give up their compromised price, and finding more insignificant reasons for such? The first grpup is equally logical in this aspect, if seen through another perspective.

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Originally Posted by Zanfire

its confusing as hell right? why would you be against it at all, unless your some pride stricken fan boy?

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And this is a great example of a post with no merit. Dear sir, I believe we are all human. Are we that we restricted that we cannot have differing opinions without derogatory labellings?

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Originally Posted by Zanfire

its confusing as hell right? why would you be against it at all, unless your some pride stricken fan boy?

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actualy, its called people with common sense

lets face it, who WOULDNT want to pay less for something

i got to mcdonalds, would i rather pay 1 dollar or 2 dollars for a large fry

when i play an mmo, would i rather pay 5 dollars or 12 dollars for it


the facts are simple, EVERYONE would rather pay less for something when given the option


but common sense prevails and tell you that just because people want to pay less doesnt mean they should be able to pay less


this entire debate is moreso all based around this arguement, people want to pay less and they will give every reason they can think of to do so cuz at the end of the day they are probably gonna pay anyway, but to pay less would be better

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Originally Posted by whoopeeragon

Hence why I said for people to find an agreeable, justifiable means to their answers. Some from the first group are just tired of seeing insignificant whining over what could well be a compromised issue. Instead, I find disparaging remarks, insulting comments, mindless complaints and lack of a definite reason from some if the second group. Admittedly, some approach those problems with not the best arms, but there is an ethical side of things of which the second group is equally guilty of, if not more.

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Well, I for one fully support the full price subscription for 2.0 if it's as complete as advertised, and I'm confident it will be. I don't think offering a discount now would negatively impact a price increase for the finished version. If anything, if you've developed your character over the course of the year leading up to 2.0, you'd be even more attached to the game and less likely to quit over something like that (which you knew was coming). Even the title of this thread acknowledges paying full price for 2.0.

It's just that the current version is not at a competitive level, and I don't believe it ever will be until the time comes for the PS3 launch. If you do stick around, it's in anticipation of better times, not what's available now. It may not be the opinion of some, but I think there are enough who feel that way that a discount would make a significant difference to SE's bottom line.

I think it is pretty simple. A lot of people don't want to pay full price for a product that is incomplete. True enough, the game is much much better than it was 12 months ago, but on the other hand it still isn't great. It still feels like half a game in lots of places.

The old argument "when is an MMORPG ever complete?" does not apply here. We are talking about having a content rich game that works fluidly. FFXIV even now cannot claim to be such a game. Until that changes, they can't really justify charging full subscription fees. If cost is such a big factor, I'd rather they just closed the servers and worked solely on 2.0 for now. Even with full subscription fees, it's unlikely that the profits made would be enough to satisfy the boardroom at SE. So why even bother?

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Originally Posted by JackDaniels

they see me trollin', they hatin'

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here you go bud

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Originally Posted by charliesheen

I think it is pretty simple. A lot of people don't want to pay full price for a product that is incomplete. True enough, the game is much much better than it was 12 months ago, but on the other hand it still isn't great. It still feels like half a game in lots of places.

The old argument "when is an MMORPG ever complete?" does not apply here. We are talking about having a content rich game that works fluidly. FFXIV even now cannot claim to be such a game. Until that changes, they can't really justify charging full subscription fees. If cost is such a big factor, I'd rather they just closed the servers and worked solely on 2.0 for now. Even with full subscription fees, it's unlikely that the profits made would be enough to satisfy the boardroom at SE. So why even bother?

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and thats exactly why Yoshi-P Stated this:

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However, these two things will be going into 1.20, so we would like players to experience 1.19 and the things that we've changed up until then. These things that are still lacking are going to be covered in 1.20, and our hope is to have the players play and see the direction the game is moving in, the improvements that we have made. There's also the fact that over the next year we will be releasing the Seventh Umbral Era content, which can only be played during this year. This type of content (which can only be experienced before the release of 2.0 as a year-long event) -- this is pretty much the first time that it's been done in this industry. With all of this coming ahead, players can make the decision at 1.20 to decide whether to pay or not.

If at that time you're still having some doubts, players can wait until 1.21, when we add the job system, or wait until 1.22 and make the decision after hearing what the player reactions are for those. What we really want is for each player to have the decision be in his or her own hands.

And as you also know, being a title that is so large, we have costs. It's been a year for free-play for a lot of players, and during that time we've continued development with a very large team -- 250 people -- and we've continued running the servers. We put a lot of resources into this. So it was my decision that after releasing 1.20 we'd have the players decide whether or not they also want to make the commitment of paying.

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Another words, if you or anyone else doesn't feel like the game is up to your standards, to just check back at a later patch from users within the game ( as they will obviously post Youtube vids on about it).

Edit: Also, this means that they are going to pull all the stops in 1.20 to make this " Complete game" for people that call it "Incomplete"

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Originally Posted by Kallera

If its not about the finances, (already not profiting,company not in peril, planned for 2.0)
And not about the PR (already bad, and planned for 2.0)
And not about the user base (already not high enough for profitability, when it is free)

Then why lower the price?

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u posted that we ignore their financial issue.
you posted charging 50% would be bad pr.
and the user base is for the ingame envirment if u lose 50% of the players that play now {you and every1 else will be effected by it].


if i sell a service and my installer screws up. the installer goes and fixes for free or other wise he gets fired. now if i have to pay a new instaler to go fix it i dont charge my costomer again for the install that is on me for having idiots do my work. now lets say this job is gona take a year to fix. how can i tell these people to pay me my monthly service fee for a service that wont be corected till a year later? answere is i dont i do the job first get payed after. and if i mess up i take care of it. that is the american way, the way of the people SE wants to play their game. you dont ignore peoples beliefs and what their acustome to, and espect them to want to keep your service.

i payed for my installion of ffxiv when i payed 80 bucks day it hit the shelfs.
they screwed the game up not me.
they fired their first intallers, they shoulda have done it right to begin with. or fixed it for free to make up for their screw up and keep their job. instead one of them gets promoted, and made 4.5 million this year. but this company is having financial issues and needs help to pay for the new tinstallers right?

They hire new installers and these guys seem legit, like they know what their doin. like they accualy played a game beside ffxi. should we pay for their install again? no good thing SE knows this and is not trying to.

now these people were brought in to fix the original install that should have been right to begin with. now for 1 year should we have to pay for the sub of this service of a product that is not gona be right for another year, if its even done by then?

now here is where the whole debate comes in. you got the costomers opinion that it is not right. your got the installers saying its 50% done. you got other customers complaining for absolutly no reason what so ever, besides wanting to run the mouth, about how they think the job is done good enough, to start collecting for a product that is not complete.

some peeps dont think we should pay till its complete.
others think we should pay half.
other think we should pay what they want and just stfu cuzz only their opinion matters and every1 elses is invaled.
other think we should pay just to show soport, the only good argument made.

i personaly think if SE wants to keep their fanbase happy they will do the right thing and fix their screw up.
this is the main thing you fanboys are ignoring. no1 is tryin to stop you from playing or effect your gameplay 1 bit what so ever. we just want them to know how we feel, and you want them to know how you feel. but only difference is your opinion makes no difference cuzz this debate would not effect how you feel 1 bit what so ever.

So in the end its just bait bein thrown everywhere and you got both sides trolling and flaming breaking up the comunnitee. gj SE i hope you see what you have done. hope you man up and fix your screw up. and put a end to this cuzz it can only end 2 ways. u make peeps mad and they quit, and continue to give bad reviews. or you keep floating like you have all year, instilling hope that the game will be fixed one day.

now when ps3 realease im sure there will be alot of peeps buying it. peeps who dont have pcs and have been waiting. think of all those people who will be reading the bad rewiews this game has got, and will get after another blunder. do you think it will help with those sales and help improve the games popluation? this is oviously a issue 45 pages and 15 different threads says its a issue.

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Originally Posted by charliesheen

I think it is pretty simple. A lot of people don't want to pay full price for a product that is incomplete. True enough, the game is much much better than it was 12 months ago, but on the other hand it still isn't great. It still feels like half a game in lots of places.

The old argument "when is an MMORPG ever complete?" does not apply here. We are talking about having a content rich game that works fluidly. FFXIV even now cannot claim to be such a game. Until that changes, they can't really justify charging full subscription fees. If cost is such a big factor, I'd rather they just closed the servers and worked solely on 2.0 for now. Even with full subscription fees, it's unlikely that the profits made would be enough to satisfy the boardroom at SE. So why even bother?

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agree with you all the way. wish they would shut it down and fix it or keep it free beta test till they fix it. but 1 thing is clear its not complete and nowhere near it.

Complete is the Players Opinions, Can't Justify whats complete and what isn't for other players, only for ones self

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Originally Posted by Starlord

Complete is the Players Opinions, Can't Justify whats complete and what isn't for other players, only for ones self

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well when the GD says its 50% complete and releases plans for their goal, ide say its a fact.

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this entire debate is moreso all based around this arguement, people want to pay less and they will give every reason they can think of to do so cuz at the end of the day they are probably gonna pay anyway, but to pay less would be better

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Whoosh. That's all I can really say, because you clearly have no clue what this argument is about.

Back to the original question in this thread (as fun as it is to read the projected numbers based on no idea of who would be sticking around under each model & no idea what the present player base is) - I will pay a full price subscription for the game.

Why?
I want more of what I like to exist, and opening my wallet is generally the only way to get that to happen. For the price of 3 coffees or 1 take out meal a month, I can support a game that's genuinely going in a direction I like, and I presently find enjoyable to play.

This isn't coming from fangirl-ism either - though honestly I must admit that I loved FFXI and hoped FFXIV would be a more "hop in for 30 minutes, hop out for a week" game with the aspects of FFXI I loved. I played beta and was incredibly hopeful the game would have a mysterious amount of content and UI lag-resolution hiding under its skirts come launch, but as launch grew closer, and it still took me 5 minutes to go through the chore of setting up my retainer or selling items to an NPC, I cancelled my preorder.

In March, I heard about the changes and dedication to being free until it met standards, so I decided to go pick me up a copy of FFXIV when it was on sale. I played for a few weeks and ran into 2 significant problems. 1) My server was a desolate wasteland, and my abuse of multiple languages still didn't get me any love. 2) Leves and other aspects related to leveling were still severely limited - and as a grad student who interns I wanted to be able to waste a solid day playing when the time arises without running into these limitations. So I stopped again.

Recently, I heard those limitations had been resolved. I remade my character onto a server that wasn't a desolate wasteland, jumped head-first into an LS, and have been having fun on-par with the enjoyment I got out of Rift without the aspects that irritated me - such as having 4 different characters to deal with guilding, constantly having to reset or respec depending on what I was up to, and generally the lack of fluidity between classes that FFXIV possesses.

I just hope by the time they do take my money they develop a normal billing system. As much as I'd love for them to charge me in Crysta, that sounds like a cash shop to me. Also, I'd much prefer using PayPal over a third-party company I've never heard of before this side of the pond.

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Complete is the Players Opinions, Can't Justify whats complete and what isn't for other players, only for ones self

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Oh please, if any person on this board can honestly say that this game, even after 1.20 will be complete... or even CLOSE to complete, they clearly do not understand how MMO's work. The game is getting there slowly but surely, but it is far, FAR from complete or polished.

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Originally Posted by stoned

well when the GD says its 50% complete and releases plans for their goal, ide say its a fact.

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They didn't say the game is 50% , they said the " FF feel" to the game is 50% ( Yoshi-p words), the game itself is nearly complete to me. No where did he said, the actual game itself was 50%. and he said " Before 1.19 the " FF feel to the game is 50%). 1.19 is out. whats the percentage now? Chocobos out, Airships out, 3 Stronghold camps, Ifirt battle, Class saving actions. I could go on, but you know exactly what came in 1.19 so repeating it would be stupid. 1.19a which were at right now I feel the game is 75% complete, with 1.20 It will bring that percentage to 90% with, 1.20/AH Functions/ PC Search ( thank god ~.~) ( to me).

The with Jobs coming in 1.21, and with a crap load of Quests to obtain skills for your job ( which seems to be alot since you need skills from level 1-50 ( I would assume). ( to me) @ 1.21 the game for the Version 1.0 will be fully complete in my eyes.

Everyone has the right to their own opinion. but this is mine. I respectfully accept your opinion as well, ( though I probably won't agree with it) but that's what opinions are most of the time. lol

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Originally Posted by whoopeeragon

And this is a great example of a post with no merit. Dear sir, I believe we are all human. Are we that we restricted that we cannot have differing opinions without derogatory labellings?

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fan boy. is not a bad thing and its another debate for another thread. we are all fanboys or we would not be playing the game. any1 that is not a fanboy quits a long time ago. there is no tother reason to play this game unless your a fan.

I second the OP.

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Originally Posted by Starlord

They didn't say the game is 50% , they said the " FF feel" to the game is 50% ( Yoshi-p words), the game itself is nearly complete to me. No where did he said, the actual game itself was 50%. and he said " Before 1.19 the " FF feel to the game is 50%). 1.19 is out. whats the percentage now? Chocobos out, Airships out, 3 Stronghold camps, Ifirt battle, Class saving actions. I could go on, but you know exactly what came in 1.19 so repeating it would be stupid. 1.19a which were at right now I feel the game is 75% complete, with 1.20 It will bring that percentage to 90% with, 1.20/AH Functions/ PC Search ( thank god ~.~) ( to me).

The with Jobs coming in 1.21, and with a crap load of Quests to obtain skills for your job ( which seems to be alot since you need skills from level 1-50 ( I would assume). ( to me) @ 1.21 the game for the Version 1.0 will be fully complete in my eyes.

Everyone has the right to their own opinion. but this is mine. I respectfully accept your opinion as well, ( though I probably won't agree with it) but that's what opinions are most of the time. lol

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the game is complete when i get 100% final fantasy feel then. your argument is beating a dead horse with no backbone.

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Originally Posted by Bartel

Oh please, if any person on this board can honestly say that this game, even after 1.20 will be complete... or even CLOSE to complete, they clearly do not understand how MMO's work. The game is getting there slowly but surely, but it is far, FAR from complete or polished.

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I'm sorry but that's my opinions, don't go off saying what you say as fact, because "opinions" are never facts.; Only Officially said things are facts. I already explained as to why I feel @ the 1.21 mark the game is 100% complete (to me) so read to your hearts content, as you displayed your feelings as to why it is you thought it wasn't. Opinions, everyone has one

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Originally Posted by stoned

i only troll the fanboys trolling others or tryin to troll me. get it straight b4 you post about me, unless you want to join them. i have made my crys loud and clear the rest of the trolling is soly for entertainment. but its good to see you have no opinon but yets had to make a post about nothing. and complain about other doing the same.

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He actually said his opinion in the post while expressing everyone else's. He put everything on the table from both sides, so I disagree with you that he made a post about nothing.

The reason why I'm against paying 50%, or any sort of discount, is because it would be SE stating that their product is inferior. Please hear me out before jumping right into reply. The product may be inferior in many people's eyes. The product may be inferior, period. But the company saying it (again, I might add), would only hurt the game more. Secondly, as many people have said and I agree completely, if they charge a discounted price, we will definitely be seeing threads like this again when 2.0 comes rolling in and they announce they'll be charging full price.

Now, and this is my opinion, which I said a couple of pages back but with apparent hostility, I believe the game, as it is now, has more than enough content so that, if we had not been playing it for free for a year, and if it was released as it is, very few people would be against the game, against paying, against anything. The one thing I have against the game right now (all things considered) is how quickly you can level up now.

These are human beings doing the coding, they've made mistakes, and they'll make mistakes. But they've been working very hard to correct those past mistakes and it shows. The UI can only be bandaged superficially but not cured. Though I definitely don't share the same frustrations most people do with it other than the delay while I'm trying to sell 50% of my inventory. Regardless, all of this, we're hoping, will be fixed in 2.0. Until then, we're going to have a changing world, and we'll have a head start over all the people who'll be coming in 2013. Personally, I'm going to keep a few classes at level 1 just so I can level up and teach either strangers or my friends whom I'll convince to start playing.

This, for me, isn't about being a fanboy. It's a question of enjoyment and mindset. If you let every single tiny thing annoy you, then you'll never be satisfied.

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Originally Posted by stoned

the game is complete when i get 100% final fantasy feel then. your argument is beating a dead horse with no backbone.

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That's why I said 1.21 is 100%. but since you say my " opinion" not argument because i'm through with arguing its pointless and idiotic, has no backbone. I'm just going to leave it at that. I said what I had to say.

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Originally Posted by Bartel

Oh please, if any person on this board can honestly say that this game, even after 1.20 will be complete... or even CLOSE to complete, they clearly do not understand how MMO's work. The game is getting there slowly but surely, but it is far, FAR from complete or polished.

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Anyone who thinks an MMO is ever complete clearly does not understand how MMO's work.

In patch 1.20, FFXIV v1.0 will be in a functional, launch worthy status.

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Originally Posted by Bartel

Oh please, if any person on this board can honestly say that this game, even after 1.20 will be complete... or even CLOSE to complete, they clearly do not understand how MMO's work. The game is getting there slowly but surely, but it is far, FAR from complete or polished.

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thats is the issue. most of the peeps who argu the point only played ffxi. and dont know what good mmos have to offer. they are used to invisable walls and bein grounded to the ground. taking 20-30 mins to set up a group or just in general wasting all kinds of time on stuff that should be simple and easy to do. like using and making macros.

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Originally Posted by Alerith

Anyone who thinks an MMO is ever complete clearly does not understand how MMO's work.

In patch 1.20, FFXIV v1.0 will be in a functional, launch worthy status.

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a mmo is complete when it has the basics to all mmos. now a mmo will never end but that is a different debate.

launch ready missing half of the basics of any mmo, seriously? that is why mmos flop,

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Originally Posted by stoned

a mmo is complete when it has the basics to all mmos. now a mmo will never end but that is a different debate.

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To say that an MMO is complete, even with basics, isn't accurate either. New features can always be implemented, new storylines introduced and new mechanics added.

And so far, the "basics" of an MMO vary from player to player. Most agree that an Auction House is basic while groups still disagree about if jumping is a basic feature. How many classes are basic for an MMO? How many starting areas or side towns?

All these come down to personal opinion, and can't really be used to judge if an MMO is "complete".

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Originally Posted by stoned

a mmo is complete when it has the basics to all mmos. now a mmo will never end but that is a different debate.

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The new server system is already up and running on internal development equipment, and we are in the process of finalizing general
search features, the party system, the friend system, and more. At the current pace, we hope to have all basic system features
completed by February 2012.

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Which is 1.21 btw as my opinion states of it begin complete ( to me)

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Originally Posted by Answa

He actually said his opinion in the post while expressing everyone else's. He put everything on the table from both sides, so I disagree with you that he made a post about nothing.

The reason why I'm against paying 50%, or any sort of discount, is because it would be SE stating that their product is inferior. Please hear me out before jumping right into reply. The product may be inferior in many people's eyes. The product may be inferior, period. But the company saying it (again, I might add), would only hurt the game more. Secondly, as many people have said and I agree completely, if they charge a discounted price, we will definitely be seeing threads like this again when 2.0 comes rolling in and they announce they'll be charging full price.

Now, and this is my opinion, which I said a couple of pages back but with apparent hostility, I believe the game, as it is now, has more than enough content so that, if we had not been playing it for free for a year, and if it was released as it is, very few people would be against the game, against paying, against anything. The one thing I have against the game right now (all things considered) is how quickly you can level up now.

These are human beings doing the coding, they've made mistakes, and they'll make mistakes. But they've been working very hard to correct those past mistakes and it shows. The UI can only be bandaged superficially but not cured. Though I definitely don't share the same frustrations most people do with it other than the delay while I'm trying to sell 50% of my inventory. Regardless, all of this, we're hoping, will be fixed in 2.0. Until then, we're going to have a changing world, and we'll have a head start over all the people who'll be coming in 2013. Personally, I'm going to keep a few classes at level 1 just so I can level up and teach either strangers or my friends whom I'll convince to start playing.

This, for me, isn't about being a fanboy. It's a question of enjoyment and mindset. If you let every single tiny thing annoy you, then you'll never be satisfied.

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he sayed he was in the grey undecided, but leaning more towards 1 group. thats what i meant bout "nothing" i wasnt debating his opinion he just dont have 1. and in the end he post was for nothing more than to troll and he named me specificaly in his post so ide say he just wants me to troll him.

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Originally Posted by stoned

he sayed he was in the grey undecided, but leaning more towards 1 group. thats what i meant bout "nothing" i wasnt debating his opinion he just dont have 1. and in the end he post was for nothing more than to troll and he named me specificaly in his post so ide say he just wants me to troll him.

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In my experience, sitting in a gray area is not not having an opinion, it's seeing too many variables to be able to make a definite answer for something. You've done very little but troll in this thread and in his post he simply mentioned you as one of the people who is just trolling and adding very little to the conversation. I saw no wish from him to be trolled.

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Originally Posted by Starlord

Which is 1.21 btw as my opinion states of it begin complete ( to me)

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i understand thats your opinion, you can stop stating that at end of every post.

basic SYSTEM features is key word there. i feel that it will still be missing the basics to many mmos. not system features but game issues,missing content,and oh the accualy content that will be here when the games is accualy launched on the {new server, that wont be added in 1.21}, the game will run the way it does till that point. the basics of any p2p mmo is that their servers are not crap. f2p server are crap thats why they are free. ive seen f2p game with better servers than this. that is why it is not complete. there is alot more i could go into detail but im not gona make another long post on that people just ignore them anyhow just to argu a point that dont matter.

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Originally Posted by stoned

i understand thats your opinion, you can stop stating that at end of every post.

basic SYSTEM features is key word there. i feel that it will still be missing the basics to many mmos. not system features but game issues,missing content,and oh the accualy content that will be here when the games is accualy launched on the {new server, that wont be added in 1.21}, the game will run the way it does till that point. the basics of any p2p mmo is that their servers are not crap. f2p server are crap thats why they are free. ive seen f2p game with better servers than this. that is why it is not complete. there is alot more i could go into detail but im not gona make another long post on that people just ignore them anyhow just to argu a point that dont matter.

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That's why i'm leaving it at that, I just thought I bring that to your attention that's all.

All the Miqo'te avatars that show them giving the serpent salute look like they're about to pull their shirts up over their good bits.

It's more frustrating to me than anything that's been said in this thread.

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Originally Posted by Answa

The reason why I'm against paying 50%, or any sort of discount, is because it would be SE stating that their product is inferior. Please hear me out before jumping right into reply. The product may be inferior in many people's eyes. The product may be inferior, period. But the company saying it (again, I might add), would only hurt the game more. Secondly, as many people have said and I agree completely, if they charge a discounted price, we will definitely be seeing threads like this again when 2.0 comes rolling in and they announce they'll be charging full price.

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I disagree. I actually think it may make it worse to charge full price as though it were a quality game. For one thing, they're not fooling anybody. The level of repair version 1.0 needs is so bad that it needs to be completely replaced by 2.0 servers and a new client.

To charge full price under those circumstances harkens back to an arrogant attitude (remember this?) rather than one that's in touch with its players. And that would be a shame, because I think they have done a lot to improve player relations and it could get overshadowed by something like this.

Furthermore, the request for the discount is coming from a well-established, well-known organization of hardcore FFXI players. I'm confident they support paying full price for 2.0 as much as I do.

Everyone, including those who play now and those waiting for the PS3 version, is waiting for a successful 2.0 version. This question of a discount only pertains to that awkward time between now and then. If it makes more money and keeps more players, why wouldn't a discount make more sense?

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Originally Posted by AmyRae

I disagree. I actually think it may make it worse to charge full price as though it were a quality game. For one thing, they're not fooling anybody. The level of repair version 1.0 needs is so bad that it needs to be completely replaced by 2.0 servers and a new client.

To charge full price under those circumstances harkens back to an arrogant attitude (remember this?) rather than one that's in touch with its players. And that would be a shame, because I think they have done a lot to improve player relations and it could get overshadowed by something like this.

Furthermore, the request for the discount is coming from a well-established, well-known organization of hardcore FFXI players. I'm confident they support paying full price for 2.0 as much as I do.

Everyone, including those who play now and those waiting for the PS3 version, is waiting for a successful 2.0 version. This question of a discount only pertains to that awkward time between now and then. If it makes more money and keeps more players, why wouldn't a discount make more sense?

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Everything you say id far too logical for these forums unfortunately...Not only would this retain more players it may also attract more from the outside. As soon as full subs come back in we wont have people coming in to give the game a chance anymore. Too long of that and you will begin to see some serious problems in this game. People will lose interest by the time 2.0 comes around. SE should be worrying about keeping as much interest as possible, not lying and pretending their product is not inferior when it is, Yoshida himself said its only 50% to where he'd like it. I think charging full price now would do far more harm then good. I dont even really see the positives on the other side of this argument, all it is is paying for payings sake.

And to the stuff about people bringing this back up come 2.0, I dont believe that will be the case. Brand new launch, brand new look and fresh start on the ps3 would be the perfect time to reinstate a full sub. Everyone will be ready by then to know if they want to invest in the game fully. Its far too early and we dont know enough to invest in potential and we are more then entitled to feel like that due to this games initial launch. It comes down to dont say, show me.

I do understand what both of you are saying, but I still don't see it. They'd have to lose half of their current playerbase for them to consider charging half an improvement. I just don't see this happening. I'm part of 4 big LSs, and in all of them only 2~10 people are leaving out of 100.

In terms of getting bored, I don't see this happening, either. I refer you to this thread. Particularly, this:

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Originally Posted by MrLion

"Why pay for an incomplete game with no content till 2.0?"

This is what really gets me and either people don't know how to read, they read it wrong, or they just complain just because. Believe it or not there is a ton of content planned from post-1.19 to post-1.23. By 1.23 we will have:

-Moogle Primal Battle
-Garuda Primal Battle
-Hamlet Defense for PvE
-The job system
-Two instanced raids
-Garlean Empire battles
-The Twelve content
-Garlean Legatus Battle
-Massive changes such as PC search, The Market Wards adjustments, Private Rooms, gear for your Personal Chocobo, and the Critical World Changes (the planned "New Eorzea")

And all of this is during the 11-month billing cycle. That's quite alot considering that the dev team has to work on 2.0 on top of all this content.

"2.0 is going to be a new game and its going to be as if 1.xx never existed"

No...no, no, no...nowhere in the roadmaps do they mention that 2.0 is going to be a "totally new game". The concept of 2.0 is that its going to change the way its going to look, have brand new content such as PvP, brand new UI, and the massive server stability that is going to gain from the new server infrastructure. That's it...yes you will still have your guildleves, you will still have your Primal Battles, your open-world dungeons/fortresses, your instanced raids.

Nowhere in the roadmaps say that this will all be gone. What is going to be gone, however, is the one-time events leading to the "cataclysm", which as the name implies is like WoW's cataclysm...same world, same content, but new content if it makes sense. The new maps in fact are coming out before 2.0 which is the radical changes to the world ("New Eorzea").

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O well when i registered i decided to pay in crysta and charged 10,000 crysta to my account so half price or full price ill have to pay lol

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Originally Posted by BlakMarket

O well when i registered i decided to pay in crysta and charged 10,000 crysta to my account so half price or full price ill have to pay lol

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Yeah, I know what you mean. I also bought a bunch of crysta in the beginning in the hopes that the retail version would be much better than the beta, so I'll have crysta anyway regardless of the fact of if I want to pay or not.

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Originally Posted by AmyRae

I disagree. I actually think it may make it worse to charge full price as though it were a quality game. For one thing, they're not fooling anybody. The level of repair version 1.0 needs is so bad that it needs to be completely replaced by 2.0 servers and a new client.

To charge full price under those circumstances harkens back to an arrogant attitude (remember this?) rather than one that's in touch with its players. And that would be a shame, because I think they have done a lot to improve player relations and it could get overshadowed by something like this.

Furthermore, the request for the discount is coming from a well-established, well-known organization of hardcore FFXI players. I'm confident they support paying full price for 2.0 as much as I do.

Everyone, including those who play now and those waiting for the PS3 version, is waiting for a successful 2.0 version. This question of a discount only pertains to that awkward time between now and then. If it makes more money and keeps more players, why wouldn't a discount make more sense?

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this over and over. It still confuses me why people don't understand this point of view. If they are willing to pay, the only thing that can happen if they reduce the price is

1) more players stay keeping the servers more alive
2) You pay less

....il never understand it i guess.

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Originally Posted by Zanfire

this over and over. It still confuses me why people don't understand this point of view. If they are willing to pay, the only thing that can happen if they reduce the price is

1) more players stay keeping the servers more alive
2) You pay less

....il never understand it i guess.

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Like I said before Im Neutral in all this:

- If this works to your behalf of getting a discount for the game.. I'm cool with it
- I'm just saying I would pay full price for it after all they have done for us
- If it doesn't get reduced that's would only mean we will see the ones that are planning on leaving at 2.0 Re-launch

Conclusion? In the end no matter what SE does.. they will reach their Ultimate goal Regardless, because Yoshi-P has bought us the right direction, and 2.0 is theirs and Our final Destination towards a better game. Regardless on other peoples opinions or how they feel about the game currently.

Point is 2.0 is the land of Paradise. Weather one wants to stay before hand is up to them, if they don't like 2.0 that's fine also. Regardless, 2.0 is coming and they will lay down the Gauntlet then come October 2012.

I wish you all the best and good luck with your En-devours. Twelve Speed be with you all =)

If they cut the price in half, wouldn't they have to have double the amount of subscribers than if they charged normal price?

There's no promises on what they would make if they charged half. It's a hit or miss situation. At least at consistently charging full price, they have an idea as to what they'll have to work with.