Your thoughts on Astrolgian so far?

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Originally Posted by Shamirah

(I never use lightspeed... it's really that useless. Oh no i do use it to dispell quickly. That's about it.)

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It doesn't change the rate at which you use mana; you still have the GCD as the same.

That's the thing, it's a dps loss because of that. You gain little to no benefit from it and you heal 25% less. => mana efficiency is down. It lets you heal on the move sure, we'll have to see if there are fights when you have to move a loooooooooot so it can become handy, but still if you spam during lightspeed you're gonna have a bad time.

So I don't play AST, but I am a SCH and was looking at their skill list. Am I wrong in saying that AST may be the strongest healer nuker - and combined with their cards make a great use of the off-healer slot. Combust 2 is literally a 450 pot dot, and at 200 potency Malefic II is much stronger than Broil. I could see them effectively taking the old SCH role where they dps and use cards, while getting up shields for the big attacks.

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Originally Posted by Sidra

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Fairly certain SCH has more DoT Potency/AoE potential. Bio, Miasma, Bio II, Miasma II, and Shadow Flare. SCH also has Bane, which can significantly increase group DPS on AoE pulls; something that AST distinctly lacks from what I can tell. AST has Gravity, yes, but no AoE DoTs. AoE DoTs allow the SCH to switch back from CS to heal, while maintaining DPS. Comparatively, AST will have to individually DoT each target, all while not having a faerie to keep the tank up.

Single target, AST might come pretty close to SCH. However, they can only do this while not being able to contribute to group HPS.

It might be roughly similar, but again, AST lacks utility and flexibility of SCH in terms of what tools are available to increase/spread DPS potential.

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Originally Posted by Sidra

bonk

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We can also cross-class Aero (since there really isn't a GOOD cross-class after Stoneskin/Protect/Swiftcast anyways...maybe Raise if you want to swiftcast macro something). They definitely aren't made to be primary healers it seems, but they do offer a good amount of support between instant Stoneskins, the instant shield in Noct Stance, Disable's 10% reduction on tank busters, party buffs, ability to DPS without accuracy, Essential Dignity to get people out of the danger zone so the primary healer can top them off, etc.

They're just missing in something to deal with the fact that sometimes people make mistakes, and some of their CDs are really weird for what they do (Celestial Opposition and Lightspeed mostly), coupled with the fact that you can sometimes get screwed with RNG....there's room for buffs but I think they're perfectly viable as-is.

I really feel the lack of bane on ast but that's just for dungeons it's not as important in 8 mans. AST damage spells burn a ton of mana though, in fates I find myself running oom far quicker than whm/sch do. all the storyline duties were terrible, I constantly ran out of mana

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Originally Posted by fanservice

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Even if Succor is only 150 potency its still more reliable than helios to hit each target. Emergency Tactics is a thirty second cooldown and lasts 15 seconds. Seems pretty consistent to me. Turns your succor into a medica equivalent, meanwhile your pet is auto curing every low party members. If you just shuffle whispering dawn and tactics you will never run out of a cooldown you need for aoe healing, or you could just succor twice because SCH have almost no mana problems compared to the other healers. On top of that you have idomitability which is literally better than medica. Your supposed to rely on your options on SCH, thats the point of the class. Saying that AST doesnt need to rely on cooldowns is obvious, that should be the case. AST aren't SCH. We dont even have half the options scholars have. So of course we don't have to rely on cooldowns. What would we use? Lightspeed?

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Originally Posted by SaintK

Even if Succor is only 150 potency its still more reliable than helios to hit each target. Emergency Tactics is a thirty second cooldown and lasts 15 seconds. Seems pretty consistent to me. Turns your succor into a medica equivalent, meanwhile your pet is auto curing every low party members. If you just shuffle whispering dawn and tactics you will never run out of a cooldown you need for aoe healing, or you could just succor twice because SCH have almost no mana problems compared to the other healers. On top of that you have idomitability which is literally better than medica. Your supposed to rely on your options on SCH, thats the point of the class. Saying that AST doesnt need to rely on cooldowns is obvious, that should be the case. AST aren't SCH. We dont even have half the options scholars have. So of course we don't have to rely on cooldowns. What would we use? Lightspeed?

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What are you complaining about? AST have equivalent heals - Helios=Medica, Aspected Helios =Medica II or Succor, depending on stance. Single target heals also compare to both. Math was done one page ago to show why everything remains equal in terms of potency/GCD.

Helios and Aspected Helios can be spammed so base AoE output is fine. Essential Dignity is very useful for single target burst when necessary and the Benefic II proc if the timing is right (and Benefic II proc could be used to save your ED cooldown, or replace it if it's already on CD). Freecure feels like it's up all the time on my WHM and in Diurnal Sect you're casting more Benefic with the speed buff anyway, so the proc should be up often enough for some reliable single target burst.

The thing in terms of healing that AST doesn't have enough of is emergency cooldowns like Divine Seal. Lightspeed needs fixing to do something about the magic potency debuff because that makes it useless outside of recasting Stoneskin or something (which I do use it for a lot). Collective Unconscious looks a bit strange too and I think everybody agrees on the card related changes that are needed.

However, SCH was in the same boat comparatively in terms of AoE heals pre-3.0 and they did perfectly fine. I remember leveling SCH after my WHM and noticing the difference in AoE healing capability, but SCH's all still got through the 4 man content fine and in 8 man you'll have another healer to help out.

As for mana problems, they have the same mana cooldown that WHM had pre 3.0 and WHM always did fine, but AST's is on a shorter CD.

If they can fix the emergency CDs and card skills, the class would be fine.

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Originally Posted by jars

I really feel the lack of bane on ast but that's just for dungeons it's not as important in 8 mans. AST damage spells burn a ton of mana though, in fates I find myself running oom far quicker than whm/sch do. all the storyline duties were terrible, I constantly ran out of mana

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I agree. gravity costs more then 1/10 my mp.... I know we don't want to spam-aoe like a blm but this is just silly-unsustainable...

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Originally Posted by Parawill

Most likely this wont help anyone... But that's how I remember things. >_>;

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Actually, it does help ^^ It makes me look at the symbols/names in a different light .... by association rather than by memorization. Thank you!

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Originally Posted by LycorisSelunis

I agree. gravity costs more then 1/10 my mp.... I know we don't want to spam-aoe like a blm but this is just silly-unsustainable...

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That's because Gravity is our Holy? You're not supposed to spam it for optimal dps.

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Originally Posted by SuzakuCMX

We can also cross-class Aero (since there really isn't a GOOD cross-class after Stoneskin/Protect/Swiftcast anyways...maybe Raise if you want to swiftcast macro something).

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Why would you take Raise when AST has Ascend? As for the 4th cross class skill, why aren't you taking Cleric Stance?

Me and my fc bud are 60 now, been crushin everything. And I do spam the shit out of gravity in dungeons just like I would holy on whm, not sure why people are saying not to do that. I'm able to hold over 200 dps though the whole dungeon (excluding dmg increased by cards), at least with pld tanks. We both agreed there are many bad players spreading miss information on here. Astro can heal well (obviously not going to top whm but they dont need to), buff well (can play any card and it is useful in hard fights, dungeons a few cards are meh), and dps better than sch, but probably less than whm.

Please please please play the job to 60, practice alot, and give the job a REAL evaluation, not some BS first impressions. I used to main whm but now Im basically a whm that can buff. People dont understand that before 3.0 every skilled healer was just overhealing and the stength of heals was over the top and unneeded. Astro makes it perfect.

AST does not out-dps SCH lol

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Originally Posted by jars

I really feel the lack of bane on ast but that's just for dungeons it's not as important in 8 mans. AST damage spells burn a ton of mana though, in fates I find myself running oom far quicker than whm/sch do. all the storyline duties were terrible, I constantly ran out of mana

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Uh...not sure how you can "feel the lack of bane" when you have no Bio, Bio II or Miasma in the first place.

Also, while leveling the MP pool is horrible for ALL healers. Get some gear at 60 and things change drastically.

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Originally Posted by Krixus

Me and my fc bud are 60 now, been crushin everything. And I do spam the shit out of gravity in dungeons just like I would holy on whm, not sure why people are saying not to do that. I'm able to hold over 200 dps though the whole dungeon (excluding dmg increased by cards), at least with pld tanks. We both agreed there are many bad players spreading miss information on here. Astro can heal well (obviously not going to top whm but they dont need to), buff well (can play any card and it is useful in hard fights, dungeons a few cards are meh), and dps better than sch

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Not to diminish your enjoyment and apparent accomplishment with the class, but 200 DPS in a dungeon wasn't difficult to achieve as either pre-existing healer at 50. At level 60, assuming you don't end up with a tissue paper tank who attempts to speedrun, DPS can be much higher due to lvl/ilvl increase and new/stronger DPS actions.

I'm not finding any of this problems tbh. I really like like the dmg of ast. That's the point. Ast it's a half dps too or maybe 1/4.if u play it pro it's a very good dmg dealer

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Originally Posted by Leiloni

As for mana problems, they have the same mana cooldown that WHM had pre 3.0 and WHM always did fine, but AST's is on a shorter CD.

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While I agree with most everything else stated, this is incorrect. Luminiferous Aether is on the same cooldown timer as Shroud. Now with whms having assize also return MP at 10%, Ast may be the healer going oom most in the expac, unless they use ewer on themselves or a spear before using LA.

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Originally Posted by Krixus

and dps better than sch, but probably less than whm.

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I'm sorry but no ast can ever outdps scholar, sch is basically a dps class at its core (Arcanist) and you can afford to dps much much freely due to fairy healing while you keep dpsing.

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Originally Posted by Leiloni

Why would you take Raise when AST has Ascend? As for the 4th cross class skill, why aren't you taking Cleric Stance?

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Ascend is bugged where it currently cannot be used in any macros. For healers who hate pushing two buttons instead of one, this apparently justifies taking Raise as a skill instead of one that doesn't blatantly overlap.

(It should be noted that the Ascend bug needs to be fixed, yes. I'm not making light of that. But I can't condone bringing an overlap skill over something more useful, just because of having to press an extra button just to Swift a rez.)

I'm not sure but let's have a challenge in a 2 minute run for AST VS SCH both dpsing . I'm sure ast will win. Don't forget lightspeed . Yeah it cuts dmg output but what with an enhanced balance card? It will do a lot of dmg with instant cast plus AST have a very powerful aoe dmg skill. Gravity. , Malefic II plus both combust 1 and 2. Hmm I don't think that SCH will win

Spell Speed bonuses from pet crits, oGCD nuke (Energy Drain), Miasma ( 300 pot Dot), Shadow Flare (250 pot) and Ruin II allows them to DPS while remaining mobile with a relatively low cost; AST doesnt have a spell like this.

Most important of all: SCH is not plagued by the issue of the mediocre mana sustain that AST has. Yeah, AST can cast DPS spells but they'll likely feel high costs of their spells much sooner than SCH in a fight.

All of these points lead to SCH being the more viable Healer-DPS.

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Originally Posted by Eraqus

I'm not sure but let's have a challenge in a 2 minute run for AST VS SCH both dpsing . I'm sure ast will win. Don't forget lightspeed . Yeah it cuts dmg output but what with an enhanced balance card? It will do a lot of dmg with instant cast plus AST have a very powerful aoe dmg skill. Gravity. , Malefic II plus both combust 1 and 2. Hmm I don't think that SCH will win

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all lightspeed would do in that situation is nerf your damage by 25%. lightspeed is never an increase, it only helps when you are moving.

Well this is true but Jr taking in count the DoT of SCH but u forget the dot of ast. They're incredibly powerful. And I repeat I'm taking in consideration a situation of just 2 min run. You can't finish ur mp in 2 minutes. Well we really need a demonstration of this. I'm ps4 so I don't have the dmg meter

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Originally Posted by Cynfael

Not to diminish your enjoyment and apparent accomplishment with the class, but 200 DPS in a dungeon wasn't difficult to achieve as either pre-existing healer at 50. At level 60, assuming you don't end up with a tissue paper tank who attempts to speedrun, DPS can be much higher due to lvl/ilvl increase and new/stronger DPS actions.

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As many have said before, we cannot compare to lvl 50 far overgeared content. And I guess I am refering to dungeon content when I say whm/ast can out dps sch, and I know 100% that they can. You hardly have to heal the tank, a whm or sch can spam holy/gravity and absolutely spank a sch's DoT dmg. And running to the next set of mobs refills our mp to do it again. In coil/alex sure sch will win, but everything outside of that whm/ast. Also astro's DoTs arnt effected by acc which means a good bit on high lvl content.

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Originally Posted by UOdhn

While I agree with most everything else stated, this is incorrect. Luminiferous Aether is on the same cooldown timer as Shroud. Now with whms having assize also return MP at 10%, Ast may be the healer going oom most in the expac, unless they use ewer on themselves or a spear before using LA.

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And I'm telling you as a WHM pre 2.0 we never had any mana problems with just the one skill, so why would you ever come to the conclusion that AST would have issues with the same skill? If you play smart you shouldn't have any problems. As for Ewer, aside from the occasional PLD/DRK that's low on MP, you'll likely be using it on yourself most of the time anyway. BLM and SMN don't need the card so outside of that, all you have is the other healers who could make use of it.

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Originally Posted by Leiloni

And I'm telling you as a WHM pre 2.0 we never had any mana problems with just the one skill, so why would you ever come to the conclusion that AST would have issues with the same skill? If you play smart you shouldn't have any problems. As for Ewer, aside from the occasional PLD/DRK that's low on MP, you'll likely be using it on yourself most of the time anyway. BLM and SMN don't need the card so outside of that, all you have is the other healers who could make use of it.

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WHM has much better tools to increase their healing potency without having to spam cure 2. AST on the other hand simply has to spam benefic 2 to keep the tank alive unless they overgear the content. Trust me AST has HUGE mana issues at 60 unless you overgear.

So, I got to 60 on AST. So far the only thing that I really don't like about it is the range on its aoe heals. It says it is the same range as Medica..which is 15 yalms for both of AST's aoes, but for some reason I find myself out of range of other party members a lot..even when it seems like I'm right next to them. I've played white mage for 2 years and never had this problem.

As far as the other stuff goes..I don't have trouble healing and I like how the cards are. They just give a little extra to the party and not some huge boost, which is fine, it doesn't need to be extreme to be helpful. But It would be nice to have the mp regen and stun move as a shorter cooldown though. The main thing that makes it hard when stuff hits the fan (for me anyway) is that I run out of mp like crazy trying to save everyone and the short range of the aoe heals. v.v

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Originally Posted by loreleidiangelo

Ascend is bugged where it currently cannot be used in any macros. For healers who hate pushing two buttons instead of one, this apparently justifies taking Raise as a skill instead of one that doesn't blatantly overlap.

(It should be noted that the Ascend bug needs to be fixed, yes. I'm not making light of that. But I can't condone bringing an overlap skill over something more useful, just because of having to press an extra button just to Swift a rez.)

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Except that you can't use raise in combat without having the trait and AST trait only affects Ascend lol.

Just for everyone's information, it's easy to heal any of the "current" content as an AST, unless you're not very good at the class.

The real test will come when raid content releases and if any groups running an AST do well or if they ultimately find everyone going with SCH/WHM.

Until then, most of this is baseless, pointless speculation that cannot be treated as evidence of anything. A person saying "YEAH WE'RE DOING GREAT WITH AST!!!" could have gotten a string of good dungeon runs where the players were all competent. It's when the DPS all suck and get hit by everything that's the true test of a healing class and that's where AST completely falls apart.

And for the record, I LOVE the AST playstyle, but I'd feel bad bringing an AST to my raid because I know that it just doesn't have what it takes to handle it when the shit hits the fan while the SCH definitely does.

I don't think you know what the word "Speculation" means. We have flat numbers right here on the table, and they aren't good.

One issue i'm noticing is some tanks still have the speed run mind set. We went from running dungeons vastly over geared to barely decent gear with the new dungeon. Even @ 60 the devs said the law gear is the ARR equivalent of Darklight (i70) stuff. I just did Dusk Vigil back to back with a PLD who went from one mob pack to the next and had no issue keep him healed. The next round I had a WAR who was a tissue tiger that kept pulling multiple sets and I was just barely squeaking by with OOM after every set.

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Originally Posted by Leiloni

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Im saying theres no reason to even use AST. You bring whats best for progression at the end of the day. Everyone is quick to look at that chart and say "Oh AST's potencies are similiar so they are fine." which is typical of anyone who hasn't played the class and should get out of this thread. WHM and SCH have similiar healing AND great cooldowns/less mana issues, which was my main point here. AST is lacking compared to the other healers. Great, we can instant cast for less potency and drain all our mana for less healing, for essentially nothing because GCD. This "speed buff" your talking about is also useless. Hell it even throws off my precasting its so useless sometimes. Cool, you get an instant cast benefic 2, but its still on GCD so.....whats the point? You still can't cast. Freecure is MUCH better because it conserves so much mana and basically runs the class. We have nothing to converse mana, only restore it on cooldown.

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Originally Posted by SakiKojiro

I don't think you know what the word "Speculation" means. We have flat numbers right here on the table, and they aren't good.

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Well, yes.

My point is that anyone saying, "AST will be good because it's good in dungeons!" is speculating on how it'll perform in raids.

I'm being nicer than calling it something else... ;)

I think we must wait for a fix or maybe and I don't really hope for it, the class it's this. Stop. I remember that for a lot of time the dragoon were very low compared to other dps. Then they buffed it and now it's OK. But..... They did it after a lot of time. Maybe they r reading all our complains and r already taking decisions about.

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Originally Posted by Eraqus

I think we must wait for a fix or maybe and I don't really hope for it, the class it's this. Stop. I remember that for a lot of time the dragoon were very low compared to other dps. Then they buffed it and now it's OK. But..... They did it after a lot of time. Maybe they r reading all our complains and r already taking decisions about.

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Uhm. DRG has always been a decent DPS. The issue was with their survivability due to being locked into an animation for their jumps along with their heavy positional requirements. (Plus the magic resistance issue)

A more apt comparison would be warrior on launch. Usable, but certainly not ideal.

AST seems fine. They lack "OH SHIT" buttons but you can't really rely on those in most content and in 8-man content you'll have the other healer to cover for that lack; you have Essential Dignity to get them out of the danger zone and then you rely on your normal heals and the other healer to keep them alive. You are useful in parties because you have a buff for every situation. You don't have the ability to multi-target heal, but you have accuracy-less abilities (and the ability to cross-class Aero).

Arrow, Balance, Spire, and Ewer all increase the DPSing ability of your party. Bole increases the defense of the tank so you can go into Cleric Stance and start DPSing a bit. Spear increases both the Utility and the DPS of your party, depending on who you use it on.

AST is very powerful in an organized group; we've just yet to reach a good iLvl and play significantly with other healers in 8 man content.

Lvl 57 AST here. My main was/is SCH (haven't leveled it to 60 yet though).

I love the way the class feels and plays. A+ job on that. I'm not too worried, I have faith SE will make tweaks and balance things out.

1. As others have said it feels like a lot more work for buffs that aren't really any better than what Selene does automatically.
2. The stance-switching is unnecessarily strict. I think it should be possible to switch during battles. I feel it would give AST a leg up to react to situations and support more.
3. The fact that AST shields and SCH shields remove each other defeats the whole point of Astro being a
4. It's unclear whether Diurnal Helios's regen and Diurnal Benedic's regen stack. The icons both show up. If they do stack, why don't the Nocturnal shields stack?
5. I think it would help if a card could be burned to improve your next heal for example. Others have suggested a small bonus every time you draw a card.

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Originally Posted by Poisonous

4. It's unclear whether Diurnal Helios's regen and Diurnal Benedic's regen stack. The icons both show up. If they do stack, why don't the Nocturnal shields stack?

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Aspected Helios and Aspected Benefic do stack with each other and yes their heals do stack. My Aspected Benefic heals around 300 per tick and with helios it goes up to 400-500.

The shields on the other hand don't stack because, well they're shields. I dunno who thought this was a good idea either but my guess is it's the same thing with Regen and Medica 2 and then Adloquium and Succor. Regen and Medica 2 stack but Adlo and Succor do not.

I'm with u that that this class it's powerful and really and really enjoyable. Really I love it. But y we must have skills that r like blank spaces in our skill tree. I mean the idea of collective unconscious it's really cool. But y like that. It's useless. And that makes it a blank space, like we have 1 less skill compared to others. They must fix it properly and making it at least usable. Sacred soil, it's a simple skill but by itself it owns a high lvl learning skill like collective unconscious.