Terrible Payment System

I don't think any of us want click and buy, really wish they would change it to trusted US based company or do it like they did directly with Playonline.

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Originally Posted by Rynithon

I don't think any of us want click and buy, really wish they would change it to trusted US based company or do it like they did directly with Playonline.

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Well, I don't think anyone wants to go back to PlayOnline either. I actually like the SE account management system because it finally allows us to have subscription based billing. No more getting charged $27.90 for a main + mule if you reactivate on the 31st of the month. They just need payment options added to the system. And I'm certain it's going to happen in the near future. I don't think SE is going to drop Click and Buy any time soon either, but I'm pretty sure we'll have an alternate payment option that the majority is going to settle on.

I also think CnB is going to prove how unreliable they are in the near future, trying to take on this extra volume of business and realizing they don't have the capacity to manage an account portfolio of this size. It's going to be a nuclear meltdown and it'll be the players who suffer the most, although SE is going to take its hits too when months of payments start bouncing or vanishing.

Although exact figures are hard to estimate, from my research it appears that Click and Buy currently employs less than 300 people based on their gambling site profiles. Oh by the way Click and Buy is also the payment gateway of choice for gambling sites worldwide. That would instill a bit more confidence in them right? I mean gambling sites are legit right? Guys?

So yeah, 300 employees are already handling transactions for 16,000 online stores and services, and they'd be taking on the brunt of SE's payment system on top of that because Crysta isn't even widely available without creating a fake address? Just curious who thinks.. this will work..?

Yeah that's crazy. So does the new system with FFXI prorate the sub now? I always felt they should of had that in place in the first place, like who doesn't prorate these days. Um yeah talk about unreliable, seems like I enter my password in 2 times wrong and is locked out and I have to call them or email them and wait. That is lost business. I was going to buy a few things from Square Enix store but forgot my password, then got locked out and couldn't get em. So just found the plush moogle on Amazon luckily from Square Enix there, but didn't buy the few extra items I was going to get on a whim.

They should really offer, Google Checkout, Paypal or team up with Amazon or something.

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Originally Posted by Rynithon

Yeah that's crazy. So does the new system with FFXI prorate the sub now? I always felt they should of had that in place in the first place, like who doesn't prorate these days. Um yeah talk about unreliable, seems like I enter my password in 2 times wrong and is locked out and I have to call them or email them and wait. That is lost business. I was going to buy a few things from Square Enix store but forgot my password, then got locked out and couldn't get em. So just found the plush moogle on Amazon luckily from Square Enix there, but didn't buy the few extra items I was going to get on a whim.

They should really offer, Google Checkout, Paypal or team up with Amazon or something.

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Yes, the updated User Agreement indicates partial cycles will be prorated now. And your billing cycle starts the day you pay, not on a set schedule, so they can't conveniently lock out the system with a monthly maintenance on the first day of the billing cycle.

Here's an interesting tidbit that's been floating around but I don't think has made it to this thread yet:

FFXIV Blog Details Click and Buy Hidden Fees

Also of interest that I just found out! So almost everyone has seen this by now right? In the FAQ about the transferal of a PlayOnline account to a Square Enix account, the reason for the move is quoted thus:

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Originally Posted by Square Enix

In order to better safeguard the account security of PlayOnline users and provide a more streamlined account management experience, transfer of PlayOnline IDs to the Square Enix Account System will begin at the end of July, 2011.

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So, how secure is this security? I did some digging and I found out some great news! It's pretty secure! Because the company Click and Buy partnered with to provide them card security services, Voltage Security Inc.. stole their cutting edge technology from another technology firm and they've been caught red handed!

Protegrity Patent Infringement Lawsuit Against Voltage Security

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As an attempt to invalidate the ‘201 Patent, Voltage Security requested the United States Patent and Trademark Office (USPTO) reexamine the ‘201 Patent on December 1, 2010. Voltage based its Reexamination Request on specific prior art references that Voltage claimed should have prevented issuance of the ‘201 Patent in the first place.

In the Reexamination, Protegrity voluntarily submitted to the USPTO all of the other 180 prior art references identified by Voltage, Ingrian/Safenet or nuBridges in the patent litigation as purportedly invalidating the ‘201 Patent. Protegrity argued to the USPTO that all the claims of the ‘201 Patent asserted by Protegrity in the litigation against Voltage, Ingrian/Safenet and nuBridges, as well as 36 newly submitted claims, were patentable over all of the prior art references.

On July 5, 2011, the USPTO, after carefully reviewing all of the prior art references, confirmed the patentability of the asserted patent claims as well as the 36 new claims..

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It's all there. Black and White. Clear as Crystal. You STOLE sir! Good DAY!

Companies of the same integrity seem to flock together. It's a beautiful thing. This is where we'll be sending our money people.

My husband finally cancelled his FFXIV account today due to a mysterious charge that showed up on our bank statement from Square Enix. It was a flat fee (I believe he said 12.99), plus a small international processing fee.

When he called SE customer service, the barely-English speaking CSR in the call center couldn't even tell him what the charge was for.

I'm pretty bummed about it, considering it was hard enough to get him to play with me. This game has really done nothing but annoy and frustrate him for almost a year and this was the final straw.

I don't feel very safe about these people having our credit card info now.

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Originally Posted by Rowyne

My husband finally cancelled his FFXIV account today due to a mysterious charge that showed up on our bank statement from Square Enix. It was a flat fee (I believe he said 12.99), plus a small international processing fee.

When he called SE customer service, the barely-English speaking CSR in the call center couldn't even tell him what the charge was for.

I'm pretty bummed about it, considering it was hard enough to get him to play with me. This game has really done nothing but annoy and frustrate him for almost a year and this was the final straw.

I don't feel very safe about these people having our credit card info now.

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Aww that's really a shame. I know firsthand the ardors of trying to enlist loved ones to play. Us veteran players of FFXI are used to questionable billing and we rolled our eyes and put in the request for refund, which we hoped they would get around to processing in a year or so. You didn't dare try to charge it back or you'd get BANT for suspicious activity. I was really hoping the migration to the Square Enix account system was going to mitigate all those headaches. :/

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Originally Posted by Chocobits

Aww that's really a shame. I know firsthand the ardors of trying to enlist loved ones to play.

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Thanks, Chocobits. /pouts :(

This is the full info that the emony listing shows:

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Basic Details For: 900024 - ClickandBuy International Limited

Current Electronic Money Status: Authorised Electronic Money Institution

Effective Date: 01/07/2011

Sub Status:

Principle Place of Business

Firm Address: Lincoln House, 137/143 Hammersmith Road, London, W14 0QL

Phone: 44 020 7605 0670

Fax: 44 020 7031 3001

Email:

Web: www.clickandbuy.com

Notices: Payment and E-Money Services are not covered by the Financial Services Compensation Scheme

Other Information:

Current Names

Registered Name: ClickandBuy International Limited Effective From: 17/06/2008 Effective To:

Trading Name: Effective From: Effective To:

Previous Name

Trading Name:

Registered Name:

Issuing E-Money and Payment Services Activities

Requirements:

Activities: a) Services enabling cash placement on a payment account

b) Services enabling cash withdrawals from a payment account

c) Execution of payment transactions (not covered by a credit line)

d) Execution of payment transactions (covered by a credit line)

e) Issuing payment instruments or acquiring payment transactions

f) Money remittance

h) Issuing electronic money

Passports

Passport Country: Austria; Belgium; Bulgaria; Cyprus; Czech Republic; Denmark; Estonia; Finland; France; Germany; Greece; Hungary; Iceland; Ireland; Italy; Latvia; Liechtenstein; Lithuania; Luxembourg; Malta; Netherlands; Norway; Poland; Portugal; Romania; Slovak Republic; Slovenia; Spain; Sweden

Passport Directive: Second Electronic Money Directive

Passport Type: Freedom of Services

Passport Activities: Issuing Electronic Money

Disciplinary History (For firm, agent and individual)

Action Date:

Action Type:

Action Description:

Action Individual Name:

Waiver Direction Summary:

Waiver Handbook Rule Number:

Agent Name:

Agent Status:

Status Effective:

Agent Address:

Previous Agents

Agent Name:

Agent Status:

Status Effective:

Agent Address:

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In June or July, each customer should have received an email (mine was in the gmail spam box) about an update to their terms and conditions. The e-money thing is why this happened and also why they are listed in the normal section as "no longer authorized" - they fall under e-money now instead.

Yes, I was worried about this at first as well, though it makes me no less wary of them.

Decided it wasn't worth it to keep this quoted.

This post wasn't all rainbows and ponies.

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Passport Country: Austria; Belgium; Bulgaria; Cyprus; Czech Republic; Denmark; Estonia; Finland; France; Germany; Greece; Hungary; Iceland; Ireland; Italy; Latvia; Liechtenstein; Lithuania; Luxembourg; Malta; Netherlands; Norway; Poland; Portugal; Romania; Slovak Republic; Slovenia; Spain; Sweden

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Wait that mean it not legal either in The U.S.A or Canada.... or many country too ... that is really not good ...

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Originally Posted by Chocobits

This just popped up in the FFXI forums:

Something interesting about ClickandBuy....

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Careful with that story. A little digging suggests there is more to it than meets the eye. The person in question was promoted from an officer to acting manager at exactly the same time they announced the clean-up, presumably in response to the previous manager's resignation. What he then DID before and after the title change is another story. Did he sweep things under the carpet or in to the bin properly? Not sure, more digging needed.

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Originally Posted by SoraLeoyfaith

Wait that mean it not legal either in The U.S.A or Canada.... or many country too ... that is really not good ...

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It may be referring to EU matters only. Not sure what the legistlation is. That is however a good point, as it suggests the system and regulations are tailored to an EU environment with little concern for intercontinental services. So why is a Europe-aligned company trying to engage in financial operations outside their area of concern and/or experience?

Because any good news is good to have. This at least clears up the FSA-authorised status situation, even if other concerns remain. Most of it I had picked up and guessed at since sending the inquiry, but it is good to hear it from the regulator themselves.

My original enquiry email:

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Hello,

I am a member of an online gaming community playing the online game Final Fantasy XIV, produced by Square Enix. Being an online game, there are to be subscription fees for this game in the future. One of the prevelant payment options (and indeed the only payment option for many regions around the world) is through the company ClickandBuy based in London, which quotes the FSA registration number of 454127.

I would like to refer you to the following website:
http://www.clickandbuy.com/EU/en/sa/...bereich=surfer

In your database, this company is listed as being "No longer authorized".

If I may ask, at what point in time did this company lose its authorisation? Also, are any activities occuring in an attempt to restore the authorisation? Lastly, and presuming the worst with this question, would the continued operation of this company in financial services constitute a violation of United Kingdom law?

It is my hope that I might be able to take any feedback on this matter to my community of players, who have been receiving very little in the way of correspondance on this topic of our concern, from both the game producer and ClickandBuy itself. Any information you can provide may assist us in deciding whether or not to engage with this company in the future.

Yours in sincerity,

***My Name***

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And this is the FSA response:

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Dear Mr ***My Surname***

Thank you for your email dated 31 July 2011.

I understand from your email that you are writing to the Financial Services Authority (FSA) in relation to the authorisation of ClickandBuy International Limited (ClickandBuy). I note that you have been requested to pay fees to ClickandBuy for a online gaming subscription and after some research into the firm you have discovered a discrepancy with regard to their authorisation by the FSA. You would like to know if the firm are authorised by us as their website suggests they are and if not the reasons behind it and what that means for you.

Firstly, I would like to thank you for taking the time to send in your email and appreciate the importance of clarifying this matter before paying your subscription fees. I would therefore like to explain the role of the FSA and provide some further information in relation to your query.

I would like to clarify that we are the UK's financial regulator set up by the government to regulate financial services and protect your rights. This means we set standards that financial services firms have to meet and we take action if they don't. We regulate most types of financial services firms, such as banks, building societies, credit unions, insurance companies, financial advisers, stockbrokers, and mortgage and insurance sellers. For further information on our role please read the attached link to the consumer pages of our website: http://www.fsa.gov.uk/pages/consumer...on/index.shtml

In relation to your query, I can confirm that ClickandBuy is listed on the FSA public register as no longer FSA authorised, however, the reason for this is because the firm is now registered as a E-money firm. This means that the firm is authorised by us to issue electronic money under the Electronic Money Regulations 2011 (EMR). The activities the firm are authorised to carry out are:

* Services enabling cash placement on a payment account
* Services enabling cash withdrawals from a payment account
* Execution of payment transactions (not covered by a credit line)
* Execution of payment transactions (covered by a credit line)
* Issuing payment instruments or acquiring payment transactions
* Money remittance
* Execution of payment transactions via telecoms, IT system or network operator
* Issuing electronic money

Details of E-money firms can be found on the FSA public register under a different section and from the this can be accessed using the buttons on the left hand side of the screen on the register entry page for ClickandBuy. If you would like to view the details of this firm and other firms that are authorised under the EMR 2011 you can use the link below to the relevant part of the register where you will need to select the top link on the page. Please note that you will need to scroll down to get to ClickandBuy whose register number is 900024:
www.fsa.gov.uk/register/eMoneyLanding.do

For future reference, all the firms we regulate appear on the FSA Register and each firm's 6 digit reference number is unique. You can check if a firm is on the FSA Register by searching under its name, postcode or firm reference number:
www.fsa.gov.uk/register/home.do

I trust this is of assistance and clarifies that ClickandBuy are still authorised by us but now fall under our Electronic Money Regulations and this is the reason why their website still states that they are authorised by us.

If you have any future questions on financial services and products, you may find it easier to call our Consumer Helpline on 0845 606 1234 (call rates may vary). You can also access relevant information online at www.fsa.gov.uk/pages/consumerinformation and via the Money Advice Service website: www.moneyadviceservice.org.uk/.

Yours sincerely


Stephanie Winson (Mrs)
Customer Contact Centre
Financial Services Authority
Consumer Helpline: 0845 606 1234 (call rates may vary)
www.fsa.gov.uk/pages/consumerinformation

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What this means for us is that they are indeed operating within enforceable legal bounds. Which means if they f*** up, they have people to answer to.

Of course I'd prefer that didn't happen in the first place...

So, I'm done with ClickandBuy anyway.

And then I find out they do the majority of their business with gambling sites?

Oh, wow. I would never trust my credit card information with a bunch of gamblers. They usually have good poker faces, and tend to lie ten times out of eleven.

Square Enix, next time, do your damn homework before picking up a payment processor in the future.

Wow.

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Originally Posted by Catapult

Because any good news is good to have. This at least clears up the FSA-authorised status situation, even if other concerns remain. Most of it I had picked up and guessed at since sending the inquiry, but it is good to hear it from the regulator themselves.

My original enquiry email:

And this is the FSA response:

What this means for us is that they are indeed operating within enforceable legal bounds. Which means if they f*** up, they have people to answer to.

Of course I'd prefer that didn't happen in the first place...

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There's a lot of people who are upset at CnB because they f*cked up, but have chosen the less headache-inducing way: cancelling their cards and leaving CnB to hang on the garrote they made for themselves.

If anyone out there has been screwed by CnB and still want to even things, I hope they contact the FSA with a formal complaint and get an investigation going, because it's pretty clear they need to be dealt with. :\

I think CnB need an old fashioned spanking...*bump*

Bumping this to the top. You won't quiet us down easily!

The Devs said they only respond to active threads. We're at over 400 responses and more views than nearly any other current thread and we still have NO RESPONSE FROM THE DEVS on this.

What gives?

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Originally Posted by Phenidate

The Devs said they only respond to active threads. We're at over 400 responses and more views than nearly any other current thread and we still have NO RESPONSE FROM THE DEVS on this.

What gives?

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it has been said many MANY times, this is not something that can be commented on so easily, especially if SE sees that it might have to turn legal.

I'm afraid they think this is an issue they can deal with later, when the game actually goes P2P.
Only problem with this is that they won't have any time left to do it, then..:rolleyes:

So now we know C&B is still allowed by the British government to do business.
That's not really making me trust them more, because there are dozens of other companies in GB which are ALSO allowed to do business, and which I wouldn't want to give my credit card number to, either.

I think the only real option we have is to use Crysta and never shut up until they give us additional payment options (or any payment options at all in some countries, C&B can't be counted as an option).

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Originally Posted by Atoli

I'm afraid they think this is an issue they can deal with later, when the game actually goes P2P.
Only problem with this is that they won't have any time left to do it, then..:rolleyes:

So now we know C&B is still allowed by the British government to do business.
That's not really making me trust them more, because there are dozens of other companies in GB which are ALSO allowed to do business, and which I wouldn't want to give my credit card number to, either.

I think the only real option we have is to use Crysta and never shut up until they give us additional payment options (or any payment options at all in some countries, C&B can't be counted as an option).

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Actually, what really speaks louder is ending your subscription, period. When they see that a large number of PC players are not updating their payment methods for when the game goes P2P, they are going to have to make changes - and fast.

I don't believe Square Enix should sit on their hands regarding this matter. Get the infrastructure into place ASAP...

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Originally Posted by Atoli

I'm afraid they think this is an issue they can deal with later, when the game actually goes P2P.
Only problem with this is that they won't have any time left to do it, then..:rolleyes:

So now we know C&B is still allowed by the British government to do business.
That's not really making me trust them more, because there are dozens of other companies in GB which are ALSO allowed to do business, and which I wouldn't want to give my credit card number to, either.

I think the only real option we have is to use Crysta and never shut up until they give us additional payment options (or any payment options at all in some countries, C&B can't be counted as an option).

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Well no, I don't think it'll be until THIS game goes pay to play. FFXI players are being forcefully moved to this payment system at the start of September. What I'm angered about is that the end of the month is approaching and they have not laid out their plans for new payment methods. Only a "We're aware of it, will get back to you later" comment. Not even a generic status update such as "While we can't give immediate details, additional payment methods are in the process of being reviewed and we would like to assure the playerbase that their concerns regarding billing options will be addressed blahblah".

The clock is literally ticking down. 2 weeks from today. If the FFXI situation is not cleared up come September, and half as many people quit or are forced out of the system as indicated, SE is going to have bigger issues than air conditioning bills to worry about, and that's going to directly impact funding for FFXIV development.

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Originally Posted by SilvertearRen

Actually, what really speaks louder is ending your subscription, period.

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But I wanna play, and I don't mind Crysta:(

There are only two things I'm upset about:
1. Many people don't have any option beside C&B.
2. Placing C&B as a payment option causes people to think it's okay to give their credit card information to them, which is something they shouldn't do.

I'm already happy as soon as they entirely remove C&B and give Crysta as an option to everyone.
(I'm aware of the fact that some people are not happy with that either because they think they are "overpaying", but really..if I have the money to pay 13-19 Euro a month, I don't mind a few cents I'll use later when I summed up enough to actually pay with all those leftovers..)

@Chocobits:

Sounds very disturbing.
I hope they do something about it ASAP.

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Originally Posted by SilvertearRen

If anyone out there has been screwed by CnB and still want to even things, I hope they contact the FSA with a formal complaint and get an investigation going, because it's pretty clear they need to be dealt with. :\

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Remember, to get anywhere you will need to have a legit complaint (double-billing, overcharging, funds taken for admin purposes against T&C) and will have to attempt to raise it with C&B. If you reach a point of no resolution (which can include no response from C&B for say... a week and can show you've done everything reasonable on your end to contact them), then you should approach the Financial Ombudsman, NOT the FSA. The FSA regulates the industry. The Ombudsman resolves consumer complaints.

I don't have such a personal experience yet, but I know my options if I do.

Also, Ren, you should check to make sure your SE account end is in order. The last thing you want is it attempting to keep updated details with C&B on the SE end, causing further complications. ;)

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Originally Posted by Catapult

Remember, to get anywhere you will need to have a legit complaint (double-billing, overcharging, funds taken for admin purposes against T&C) and will have to attempt to raise it with C&B. If you reach a point of no resolution (which can include no response from C&B for say... a week and can show you've done everything reasonable on your end to contact them), then you should approach the Financial Ombudsman, NOT the FSA. The FSA regulates the industry. The Ombudsman resolves consumer complaints.

I don't have such a personal experience yet, but I know my options if I do.

Also, Ren, you should check to make sure your SE account end is in order. The last thing you want is it attempting to keep updated details with C&B on the SE end, causing further complications. ;)

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I've already switched it to Crysta, with a balance of zero Crysta. That should be sufficient.

yeah I dont mind paying with Crysta myself, I mean I buy 20,000 crysta, and spend 12,999 a month for FFXIV, that leaves me with 7,001 every month, well every two months I have a third month already payed for. Now I know not everyone can pay with Crysta, and I think that is the real main problem along with C&B

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Originally Posted by Catapult

Remember, to get anywhere you will need to have a legit complaint (double-billing, overcharging, funds taken for admin purposes against T&C) and will have to attempt to raise it with C&B. If you reach a point of no resolution (which can include no response from C&B for say... a week and can show you've done everything reasonable on your end to contact them), then you should approach the Financial Ombudsman, NOT the FSA. The FSA regulates the industry. The Ombudsman resolves consumer complaints.

I don't have such a personal experience yet, but I know my options if I do.

Also, Ren, you should check to make sure your SE account end is in order. The last thing you want is it attempting to keep updated details with C&B on the SE end, causing further complications. ;)

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Indeed, the Ombudsman is the place to go! When a certain British building society knowingly sold bad bonds to 3200 customers over a 4 year period, the Ombudsman cracked down on them after a full investigation was launched by the Serious Fraud Office. Just a bit of triva: the Compliance Assessor and Crime Prevention Officer for that firm at the time of these fraudulent transactions is now a Compliance Manager.. for our dear friends at ClickandBuy. Can't post details, but I imagine if you were google "ClickandBuy Compliance Manager" you'd be on the right track..

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Originally Posted by Chocobits

Indeed, the Ombudsman is the place to go! When a certain British building society knowingly sold bad bonds to 3200 customers over a 4 year period, the Ombudsman cracked down on them after a full investigation was launched by the Serious Fraud Office. Just a bit of triva: the Compliance Assessor and Crime Prevention Officer for that firm at the time of these fraudulent transactions is now a Compliance Manager.. for our dear friends at ClickandBuy. Can't post details, but I imagine if you were google "ClickandBuy Compliance Manager" you'd be on the right track..

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oh wow....how lovely....... -.- I really encourage everyone to follow these steps, and save all info related to it as you go, and don't give me that "oh well they will keep my info and charge to it later" BS, because there is something you can do about it if they do.

http://clickandbuy.com/US/en/sa/help...bereich=surfer

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Originally Posted by Kailea_Nagisa

oh wow....how lovely....... -.- I really encourage everyone to follow these steps, and save all info related to it as you go, and don't give me that "oh well they will keep my info and charge to it later" BS, because there is something you can do about it if they do.

http://clickandbuy.com/US/en/sa/help...bereich=surfer

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Oh thank the Twelve! Their website says they are a credulous billing company! All our woes are solved.

Sorry for the troll but please do not be so naive as to believe that you are safe just because their website says so. Am I slightly paranoid about who has my bank account info? Yes. Do I have a right to be? Yes. While sure you can counter by saying I have no personal proof that they are scam hungry I don't want to be the one to test the guillotine just because it says "Safe for children ages 3 and up". Just to throw this info out there after I did some light browsing on the internet and some searching on the BBB (Better Business Bureau) and discovered this:

http://www.bbb.org/NYC/Business-Revi...york-ny-94189/
"On a scale from A+ to F, clickandbuy.com was rated an F."

Square Enix? A+
Paypal? A-
PNC Bank? A+
Blizzard? B-
Nexon??? (International: A, North America: C-)

You also can't argue that most of the complaints come from cheating people and/or consumer error because Paypal is in the same boat as them and maintain an A- rating. I'm personally closing my XI account along with a lot of other XI players in hopes that a mass account closing opposition to Clickandbuy will get SE to change its ways before XIV starts getting billed because I don't want to give up XIV over something as trivial as billing but I may have to.

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http://www.bbb.org/NYC/Business-Revi...york-ny-94189/

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Yup that is worriesome.

Sure XI billing system is a total clusterpoo but at least I never worry about the 3rd parties that get my CC info. I'm really wondering how it's possible that SE hasn't commented anything on this issue?

I mean almost 500 replies now...

You know, with as many replies as there are, and with as many views, you have to know that the mods have reported this to the dev team. My guess, and this is just a guess, is that someone on the FF14 teams was told by someone higher up, "No Comment."

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Originally Posted by origamikitsune

You know, with as many replies as there are, and with as many views, you have to know that the mods have reported this to the dev team. My guess, and this is just a guess, is that someone on the FF14 teams was told by someone higher up, "No Comment."

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A lot of people in both the XIV and XI forums give the dev team a lot of flak for not really discussing this matter but I think most of that is unjustified. The decision to use Clickandbuy was likely neither Yoshi's decision nor Tanaka's and was probably determined by the CEO/board of Square Enix. Our community reps can only provide the feedback to Yoshi and he is likely powerless to really do anything to resolve the matter besides suggest to his superiors that there is a lot of distress about the billing system.

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Originally Posted by Razor

A lot of people in both the XIV and XI forums give the dev team a lot of flak for not really discussing this matter but I think most of that is unjustified. The decision to use Clickandbuy was likely neither Yoshi's decision nor Tanaka's and was probably determined by the CEO/board of Square Enix. Our community reps can only provide the feedback to Yoshi and he is likely powerless to really do anything to resolve the matter besides suggest to his superiors that there is a lot of distress about the billing system.

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Which is precisely what we need to see done. If he doesn't man up and break the barriers, he's going to be just as big a disappointment as Tanaka was. Anybody can create content, but not everybody can accommodate their audiences as well as some people can.

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Originally Posted by SilvertearRen

Which is precisely what we need to see done. If he doesn't man up and break the barriers, he's going to be just as big a disappointment as Tanaka was. Anybody can create content, but not everybody can accommodate their audiences as well as some people can.

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Well we don't know whether he has, hasn't, cannot, or will not. Even if he has he may be under duress to keep quiet about it, after all, they do pay his checks. And I've read in numerous places that Square Enix's upper management is not exactly the friendliest group of people, so I feel he is innocent until proven guilty.

Regardless of whether Square Enix cares about what Yoshi, the devs, or the community thinks; they not only want to make money but need to. Suffering heavy losses already with XIV, XI subscriptions is currently still a large percentage of their revenue. When Sept 1st rolls around if the 1000 replies on the XI's forum's version of this thread are serious about standing up against SE and Click and Buy (which many are for the sole reason they cant even USE it), then Square Enix's revenue will take another hard hit which the upper management is likely aware they can't sustain.

But who knows, I want to have faith in Square Enix but I'm not sure if they will budge on this one.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Razor

Well we don't know whether he has, hasn't, cannot, or will not. Even if he has he may be under duress to keep quiet about it, after all, they do pay his checks. And I've read in numerous places that Square Enix's upper management is not exactly the friendliest group of people, so I feel he is innocent until proven guilty.

Regardless of whether Square Enix cares about what Yoshi, the devs, or the community thinks; they not only want to make money but need to. Suffering heavy losses already with XIV, XI subscriptions is currently still a large percentage of their revenue. When Sept 1st rolls around if the 1000 replies on the XI's forum's version of this thread are serious about standing up against SE and Click and Buy (which many are for the sole reason they cant even USE it), then Square Enix's revenue will take another hard hit which the upper management is likely aware they can't sustain.

But who knows, I want to have faith in Square Enix but I'm not sure if they will budge on this one.

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If their past behavior is anything to go by, they are going to bollock this up.

Check out the FF11 forum clickandbuy thread:

Petition: clickandbuy the only way no,thanks.
Replies: 1,038 / Views: 86,115

And the mods' responses are linked here, in the order they appear:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...l=1#post160255

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...l=1#post160436

If someone already shared this, well, this thread is tl;dr

Quote:

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Originally Posted by origamikitsune

Check out the FF11 forum clickandbuy thread:

Petition: clickandbuy the only way no,thanks.
Replies: 1,038 / Views: 86,115

And the mods' responses are linked here, in the order they appear:

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...l=1#post160255

http://forum.square-enix.com/ffxi/th...l=1#post160436

If someone already shared this, well, this thread is tl;dr

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Yes people, including myself, have posted those quotes before and they are known.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Razor

Oh thank the Twelve! Their website says they are a credulous billing company! All our woes are solved.

Sorry for the troll but please do not be so naive as to believe that you are safe just because their website says so. Am I slightly paranoid about who has my bank account info? Yes. Do I have a right to be? Yes. While sure you can counter by saying I have no personal proof that they are scam hungry I don't want to be the one to test the guillotine just because it says "Safe for children ages 3 and up". Just to throw this info out there after I did some light browsing on the internet and some searching on the BBB (Better Business Bureau) and discovered this:

http://www.bbb.org/NYC/Business-Revi...york-ny-94189/
"On a scale from A+ to F, clickandbuy.com was rated an F."

Square Enix? A+
Paypal? A-
PNC Bank? A+
Blizzard? B-
Nexon??? (International: A, North America: C-)

You also can't argue that most of the complaints come from cheating people and/or consumer error because Paypal is in the same boat as them and maintain an A- rating. I'm personally closing my XI account along with a lot of other XI players in hopes that a mass account closing opposition to Clickandbuy will get SE to change its ways before XIV starts getting billed because I don't want to give up XIV over something as trivial as billing but I may have to.

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did you even read the link?
I am not naive, I have read and started to see what type of company this is, that is why I said save everything related to your cancel, if you have proof that you canceled your account, you can do something if they charge your card later. This is the main problem, that people think they can not do anything. I am taking measures to take action if I have to later, by saving all my info related to canceling this account.

Left FFXI here last month cus of it, will leave this game if it does not change come billing.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Kaida

Left FFXI here last month cus of it, will leave this game if it does not change come billing.

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Could always move to Guild Wars 2. I hear they're gonna have bar brawls. :D

At some point in FFXI's life, they changed some kind of system that your credit card had to be verified through web or something. The CC i had on file didn't qualify for some reason, so I had to go through the inconvenience of changing to a new card.

That coupled with their absolutely horrible phone support. I really don't want to relive any kind of complications. Why can you simply accept a credit card on your website, and handle everything properly that people can trust and do it with ease. You can, but you know that'll cost you a little more per account and as a consumer, I won't buy it.

Give us options or when the F2P is done, as am I. I'm as patient as ever with FFXIV's development, but i'm not patient with anything else regarding this topic.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by RedAffinity

At some point in FFXI's life, they changed some kind of system that your credit card had to be verified through web or something. The CC i had on file didn't qualify for some reason, so I had to go through the inconvenience of changing to a new card.

That coupled with their absolutely horrible phone support. I really don't want to relive any kind of complications. Why can you simply accept a credit card on your website, and handle everything properly that people can trust and do it with ease. You can, but you know that'll cost you a little more per account and as a consumer, I won't buy it.

Give us options or when the F2P is done, as am I. I'm as patient as ever with FFXIV's development, but i'm not patient with anything else regarding this topic.

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3D-Secure was BS from the start, but it was a helluva lot better than ClickandBuy.

I was totally born in the wrong country. If I had been born properly in the land of the rising sun, I could walk into a konbini and purchase a prepaid gaming card in exact amounts to pay for my games. Then again, I could pay with (non-3D Secured) credit cards as well. I'm sure they have some kind of smartphone app the lets them pay through PayPal just by waving their phone across the screen too.

The moral of this story: SE doesn't love JPs or hate Americans. They just got tired of seeing all those green pictures of George Washington, Abraham Lincoln and Alexander Hamilton. So SE hates foreign MONEY, not the foreigners themselves.

So when they wait until the 1st of the month rolls around to see how many players they actually lose, instead of doing the right thing now, and it turns out to be a LOT, does that mean we'll get a $1 a month discount from now on for being treated like white trash?