S-Rank mobs needs a invulnerability buff on S-RANKs

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

There is a distinction. One is an effort by a self-selected few to control the community's participation in open world content for their own benefit at the expense of those others in the community. The other is an effort to keep the entire community informed as quickly as possible so they have a better chance to participate.

Spawners already know what's going on. They don't need an extra 1-2 minute headstart on everyone else.

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I've legit missed out on ARR S ranks I spawned multiple times because the bot relays opened the flood gates while the hunt spawned on the opposite side of the map far away from any aetherytes then someone proceeded to pull the hunt the instant they got to it. It was especially bad back before ARR zones were flight enabled.

It basically forces everyone to have to use the bot relays and make a mad scramble for the S rank if they want a fair chance at getting to it regardless of whether or not they're the ones actively spawning the hunts or not, and the only reason it's somewhat sane for the time being is because the stat squish increased the amount of time it takes for the S ranks to die. Pre-squish the ARR S ranks were dying in around 20-30 seconds which gave you almost no time to actually get to them if you had someone impatient pulling them immediately.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

I've legit missed out on ARR S ranks I spawned multiple times because the bot relays opened the flood gates while the hunt spawned on the opposite side of the map far away from any aetherytes then someone proceeded to pull the hunt the instant they got to it. It was especially bad back before ARR zones were flight enabled.

It basically forces everyone to have to use the bot relays and make a mad scramble for the S rank if they want a fair chance at getting to it regardless of whether or not they're the ones actively spawning the hunts or not, and the only reason it's somewhat sane for the time being is because the stat squish increased the amount of time it takes for the S ranks to die. Pre-squish the ARR S ranks were dying in around 20-30 seconds which gave you almost no time to actually get to them if you had someone impatient pulling them immediately.

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Faloop's bot relays rely on someone to actually report it first. It explicitly does not use any in-game bots or addons for its functionality, to my knowledge at least. So 'banning' it is as good as 'banning' any form of the out-of-game coordination for the hunts.

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Originally Posted by Heroman3003

Faloop's bot relays rely on someone to actually report it first. It explicitly does not use any in-game bots or addons for its functionality, to my knowledge at least. So 'banning' it is as good as 'banning' any form of the out-of-game coordination for the hunts.

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Yeah, if you used the Eureka trackers before, it's the same thing. You need someone to spawn them, go find them and then check it as spawned. Same goes for the FATEs. Nothing's automated via bots or 3rd party tools, it's all boring manual work.
If we banned those, we'd also have to ban stuff like Eureka Trackers, Angler and Teamcraft.

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

Yeah, if you used the Eureka trackers before, it's the same thing. You need someone to spawn them, go find them and then check it as spawned. Same goes for the FATEs. Nothing's automated via bots or 3rd party tools, it's all boring manual work.
If we banned those, we'd also have to ban stuff like Eureka Trackers, Angler and Teamcraft.

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Exactly. Its purely community effort without anything against the current rules. Unless just very idea of organizing things in more convinient forms than ultra-limited linkshells is to be fobidden, then Faloop, and all those other things too, are perfectly fine. And complaining about Faloop people getting 'special priveleges' is no different from not being part of a single linkshell and complaining about not being notified about anything. Community made effort to organize on its own, and succeeded, you can either try to rough it on your own, or join the existing group efforts.

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Originally Posted by Heroman3003

Faloop's bot relays rely on someone to actually report it first. It explicitly does not use any in-game bots or addons for its functionality, to my knowledge at least. So 'banning' it is as good as 'banning' any form of the out-of-game coordination for the hunts.

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But do you know how the reporter is getting their information?

I know a lot of hunters that would be happy to see the out of game coordination banned (I'm not one of them). They preferred old school hunting. The out of game coordination becomes necessary because we've taken the Hunt beyond SE's intent for the content and the game chat channels can't handle the number of players involved in a single channel. Go back to old school hunting and it's not needed.

I wouldn't expect Faloop to get banned as a third party app. Faloop's problems are from the Nuisance Behavior and Obstruction of Game Play policies.

It is expecting the entire FFXIV hunt community to play by its rules when not everyone in the community is a member of Faloop nor does it have the authority to set rules for in-game activity. Have any idea how much harassment I've witnessed in game that was encouraged by the following from their Discord guidelines?

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Hunt Disruption
First and foremost, we take any attempts at disrupting hunt activity very seriously and will take actions towards eliminating such behaviour. Both spawning S-Ranks and conducting A-Rank trains are done by a team of volunteers; there is no extra incentive for doing so. Please appreciate their efforts and engage the mark in accordance with their instructions!

Below is a non-exhaustive list of examples of what constitutes Hunt Disruption:

• Engaging combat with the mark against the direction of the spawner/conductor, known as "early pulling".
• Hijacking the direction away from the spawner/conductor, including altering their pull time.
• For A-Rank trains specifically: running ahead of the train and calling the next mark with the intention to split the group.

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Yes, basic courtesy and consideration for those who have put in the work goes far yet it is not Faloop's place to decide what constitutes hunt disruption or to "take actions towards eliminating such behaviour". That is up to SE and its GM team, and they've given us just two situations: resetting a mark that's already been engaged by players and using the mark for MPK.

I was never fond of those overly possessive mindsets/rules being laid out in the discord and more then anything else just appreciate if people wait at least like a minute or two after something spawns so at bare minimum the ones who spawned it can get there.

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Originally Posted by Heroman3003

Faloop's bot relays rely on someone to actually report it first. It explicitly does not use any in-game bots or addons for its functionality, to my knowledge at least. So 'banning' it is as good as 'banning' any form of the out-of-game coordination for the hunts.

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When I say "bot relays" I'm referring to other sources like the Centurio Hunts discord that are being fed relays directly from third party apps that are detecting the S rank locations with no actual player input.

When it comes to older zones, it's almost always as a result of a shard/crystal farming bot being present when something spawns as they have a hunt detector built into their toolkit.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Yes, basic courtesy and consideration for those who have put in the work goes far yet it is not Faloop's place to decide what constitutes hunt disruption or to "take actions towards eliminating such behaviour". That is up to SE and its GM team, and they've given us just two situations: resetting a mark that's already been engaged by players and using the mark for MPK.

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Yeah, but the problem there is Square being vague with its terms again :x Because if they themselves don't define it well, then people will interpret them however they feel. Thus starting these arguments.

Faloop, as a tool, strictly speaking, is just that. It's a place for people to tick whether or not it's killed or spawned, or spawnable or whatever. Even if we had third party tools allowing to know that, you still are going to need people to keep the website up to date, as well as spawn and kill said Hunt.

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Originally Posted by KageTokage

When I say "bot relays" I'm referring to other sources like the Centurio Hunts discord that are being fed relays directly from third party apps that are detecting the S rank locations with no actual player input.

When it comes to older zones, it's almost always as a result of a shard/crystal farming bot being present when something spawns as they have a hunt detector built into their toolkit.

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Wait, do you mean Discord bots? : o Because those retrieve the information from Faloop that others put out, and relay it over to discords. It's not an in-game third party tool. It is an automated part that Faloop can acquiesce to, but it's an intermediary thing. You can also do that with Angler or FF14 Alarms.

idk if there's an actual plug-in to do that directly into the game :I but if there is, first of all, yikes. Secondly? It's not a flaw with Faloop itself. The bot is getting info that other people record and relay it to others. The real danger there is the bot's existence to begin with.

As for the older zones... yeah, I agree. I don't think that's a problem with Faloop at all there though, that's just people botting the game to force it. That's a third-party tool use, so it's a violation, regardless of whether Faloop is tied to it or not.

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

idk if there's an actual plug-in to do that directly into the game :I but if there is, first of all, yikes. Secondly? It's not a flaw with Faloop itself. The bot is getting info that other people record and relay it to others. The real danger there is the bot's existence to begin with.

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There have been plug-ins like that around since the dawn of the hunt system, but they've become increasingly more advanced as time has gone on and arguably hit a peak in terms of how disruptive they are when they started being built into all of the gathering bots.

If you spawn something, chances are the entire DC will be aware of it instantly, which led to dozens/hundreds of players immediately trying to swarm into a single server/zone for a S rank back in early EW which was completely hellish for obvious reasons. The population has thankfully tapered off enough that you're unlikely to get locked out of the zone entirely at this point.

And yes, I'm aware Faloop has nothing to do with that problem since it's only getting second-hand manual relays from those plug-ins/discords at most.

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Originally Posted by Jojoya

Yes, basic courtesy and consideration for those who have put in the work goes far yet it is not Faloop's place to decide what constitutes hunt disruption or to "take actions towards eliminating such behaviour". That is up to SE and its GM team, and they've given us just two situations: resetting a mark that's already been engaged by players and using the mark for MPK.

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And it is no different from getting blacklisted from the hunting linkshells. Its same thing, just taken to wider scale, that game does not allow you to. Which is kinda necessary with how far spread out all the hunt stuff has become, and how grindy the achievements related to it are. Faloop isn't doing anything forbidden by just blacklisting people from their community based on behaviour in the game. And the harassment is no different than the type linkshell users could engage in direction of those who are not involved, or are not involved and show no respect or courtesy. Faloop is no different from a giant linkshell that actually works well, because SE refuses to give ones big enough to be worth it with the current state of the game.

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Originally Posted by RobynDaBank

Why get personal like that?

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Don't feed the idiot troll.