Summoner feels really, really dumbed down now

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Originally Posted by Rolder50

I can’t speak for others on here of course, but my own issue with Summoner is that there is no depth, no complexity, no requirement to engage your brain with the current rotation.

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This is my perspective and complaint as well. What hurts is it didn't even have to end up this way. You could have had this redesign yet pave it with call backs from the old job.

This image right here is how to create a good summoning mechanic: 3 Astral Calls and 3 Umbral Calls. Astral Aetherflow lets you call the three primals, bonus damage when done in the element flow sequence, then after all three it unlocks DWT/Bahamut. Umbral Aetherflow calls the three primals and it unlock FWT/Phoenix.

https://en.ff14housing.com/images/pi...21069_img2.jpg

It would be cool that in the next expansion they add the other 3 elemental gems, and that we could directly have the choice to take 3 of the 6 invocations of this cycle to make elemental combos and have different effects according to the choice, for example Leviathan + ramuh, Garuda + ifrit, titan + leviathan, etc, etc ...

It would also be nice if each Summoning Gems had a stack of 2 max, so that you didn't manage to spend it before using a demi-summon.

A spell also to sacrifice his stack of remaining gems if ever they are not useful and the use of demi-summon is possible for example 1 gems 2%, 2 gems 4%, 3 gems 6% of personnal damage during 15s.

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Originally Posted by Anacrusys

The builder spender system would have worked great for SMN. They could have taken some of the concepts here and made it their own. Scroll down for spell descriptions. Demo lock is fun and engaging. So intense trying not to cap soul shards. SMN could add a row of 5 horizontal lights lights on the gauge. Have ruin 3 and another skill generate “runes” to spend on summons. Extra possible ideas…. maybe the amount of runes you use alters duration or some summons cost more, etc.

https://www.icy-veins.com/wow/demono...-spell-summary

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I would enjoy Aveyond complaining that it's a demonology warlock rather then an affliction warlocking, if nothing else.

I don't really think 3 more flavors of ruin is the right answer to fix SMN. Sure it'd be nice for the people who just want flashy colors and aren't maining the class or raiding, but its just another cosmetic thing.

Summoner needs a few fixes. It needs more complexity and variation in rotation and it also needs some basic improvements:

1. Carbuncle actually needs to attack. It just stands there which is ridiculously stupid.
2. Basic summons (Garuda/Ifrit/Titan) need to add more abilities than just two rehashes of literally the same abilities across all these summons. It's really boring and bland design. I suggest 3-4 unique abilities per summon. Ifrit could add dot damage, maybe with a spread ability like we used to have. Garuda could add fast and instant abilities with a damage penalty for the added mobility. Titan could be a heavy hard-cast hitter. This would add a layer of complexity to summons and the job as a whole while also bringing interesting choices to the mix.
3. Bring back proper pet control.
4. Give summoner a dot.

Just my thoughts.

It’s just boring now. Just changing the color of the ruin filler doesn’t make it any more fun

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Originally Posted by Madoka

I don't really think 3 more flavors of ruin is the right answer to fix SMN. Sure it'd be nice for the people who just want flashy colors and aren't maining the class or raiding, but its just another cosmetic thing.

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Oh, that's a given. You must add more than a single target and AoE target ability. If you think about the design of the game we have three different sources of direct DPS; GCD, oGCD, and DoT. No matter how some feel about the D word it's a legit form of DPS that a lot of jobs have; SAM, BRD, BLM, RPR, MNK, GNB, Healers, etc. Then you have to actual see what the change to SMN, it off loaded Enkindle and Egi Assaults from the pets to the Summoners to eliminate the missed command problem. I would say a good number of GCD spells would be 3 plus 1 AoE.

So based on the Elemental Wheel; Shiva/Levi would fit the instant cast/oGCD combo set, Garuda/Ramuh would fit you DoT, Ifrit/Titan would be your long cast combo. Also remember when you cast in the correct cycle (elemental wheel) you get a bonus damage for the next so: you could start with Shiva -> Garuda -> Ifrit = Bahamut. Levi -> Ramuh -> Titan = Phoenix. As for Bahamut, I still feel like it should be 2.5s cast with oGCD and Phoenix should be the instant cast with 1, 2 combo.

So in practice if could look something like this:
Shiva would be #1 GCD > oGCD > #2 GCD > oGCD > #1 GCD > oGCD > #2 GCD > oGCD
Garuda would be Ground AoE > #1 DoT > #2 DoT
Ifrit would be #1 > #2 > #3

Speaking of Demi and Pets in general: the first thing is to add a size option in the Graphic Setting so people can easily change the size. Next the Summons should stay on the field and just cast 1.5s AoE auto attack at range; for example Garuda does Shriek, Ifrit does Eruption, Titan does Tumult.

Astral Flux, from each Avatar should be set appart, so we can use theirs spells whenever we want as long as we have activated the primal to use them.

In that way, i can keep :

- Ifrit's Gap Closer for when i really need it to.
- Phoenix's Regen skills for when the party is in a bad situation
- Garuda's AoE Dot, for when i'm sure the boss will not move for a while.
- Titan's Damage skills that can be stacked up, for burst time.

To give more complexity (but not to much) separate Bahamuth from Phoenix and gives them bonus to the party or self when you cast it so you can decide wich one you want to summon.

Also, Ifrit is the only one that doesn't have instant cast spells, and i'm sure with a good spellspeed set we're not gonna use them as Bahamut/Phoenix will probably be up by the time it's time to use it, and the potency is ridiculous in comparison of instant from B/P. (either boost their potency higher than 400 or make it also instant cast).


To be honest, i like this summoner version, but it lack of some things.

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Originally Posted by zcrash970

Strongly disagree but you do you. I think it is one of worse versions of smn in the game so far. Right next to 2.0 damn in terms of gameplay. Maybe worse because 2.0 smn had stuff to manage and keep track of

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Which is ironic, because pre-EW SMN was the worst version of SMN in Final Fantasy history. lol

There ought to be longer timespan between each summoning, if just to reduce the amount of special effect fireworks.
In all honesty, this is why Summoner was a pet class with a small pet, because smearing trial and raid bosses in "summoning scale" epic explosions makes it miserable for rest of the party.
And don't mention limited effects, that is just blame deflection.