Incentives to NOT queue as DPS

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Originally Posted by Dzian

This actually punishes DPS quite badly. it means that they will always be behind on progression.

if you allow tanks and healers to get say 600 tomestones a week. while dps can only get 450. then tanks and healers are going to gear up that much quicker in 9 weeks as opposed to 12 for example. if those tanks used there tomes from roulettes on dps gear for there raids they'd have a pretty big advantage over dps players that played only dps

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To be fair, tanks need to upgrade their gear quite often because it matters a lot. That being said if they spend it on DPS then yeah they'd be ahead in progression on DPS characters.

https://www.reddit.com/r/ffxiv/comme...nimum/de7hr09/

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Originally Posted by MoroMurasaki

Advantage is fair if you're willing to do something that most others aren't.

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I really want to steal this for my signature. It is SO ungodly true!

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Originally Posted by Zojha

You can also make content work even with only DPS and it doesn't even need to be less engaging than the usual content, because tanks and healers are only needed for tank&spank. You don't need them for gaze attacks, you don't need them for stack mechanics, nor spread mechanics, nor placement mechanics, nor soaking mechanics, nor telegraphed AoEs, nor standing on platforms, nor add priority, nor meteors, nor any other mechanic where you are supposed to do something specific to avoid damage, because you can always make people avoid ALL damage if the mechanic is done correctly.
One dungeon that's all mechanics and no trinity per patch and the problem would be alleviated. And people who are dead set on the trinity can just queue for the other. That's another way to alleviate things.

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Many of those mechanics would require healing afterwards because you do not actually mitigate all damage by performing them. Also damage output from all souces would have to be nerfed into the ground or a tank or healer would be necessary just because second wind is not enough recovery for an entire encounter.

If you want this model PotD exists but if all content turned into that model I would unsub because it would be so damn boring.

Making two separate play models is needless work when the dev team has much bigger fish to fry.

Tank and healer need larger incentives and those incentives need to grow until this disparity is solved.

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Originally Posted by HyperSMB

I really want to steal this for my signature. It is SO ungodly true!

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Go for it buddy! :)

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Originally Posted by MoroMurasaki

Many of those mechanics would require healing afterwards because you do not actually mitigate all damage by performing them. Also damage output from all souces would have to be nerfed into the ground or a tank or healer would be necessary just because second wind is not enough recovery for an entire encounter.

If you want this model PotD exists but if all content turned into that model I would unsub because it would be so damn boring.

Making two separate play models is needless work when the dev team has much bigger fish to fry.

Tank and healer need larger incentives and those incentives need to grow until this disparity is solved.

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There will always be a disparity between tanks/healers and dps queue times. It has always been that way in every MMO. It's the nature of the beast. The only true way to get around it is the Guild Wars 2 method of removing the trinity.

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Originally Posted by Ferrasper

There will always be a disparity between tanks/healers and dps queue times. It has always been that way in every MMO. It's the nature of the beast. The only true way to get around it is the Guild Wars 2 method of removing the trinity.

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I'm not bothered by the disparity in the slightest as a healer main but it seems like DPS players are and from what I can tell in this game it's all about numbers. Either make a tangible difference in the rewards people receive or accept that this difference will continue.

I don't see a problem that needs fixing. If everyone wants DPS classes on top of DPS classes on top of DPS classes, then you take everything that comes with it. We don't need to turn the entire game into a giant PoTD-style zergfest or slap 10 DPS in an instance for every 1 tank/healer.

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Originally Posted by MoroMurasaki

I'm not bothered by the disparity in the slightest as a healer main but it seems like DPS players are and from what I can tell in this game it's all about numbers. Either make a tangible difference in the rewards people receive or accept that this difference will continue.

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As a Dps player, I accepted this reality of being a DPS a long time ago. Most of the DPS I know have done the same. Only a small minority complain about it.

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Originally Posted by Dzian

This actually punishes DPS quite badly. it means that they will always be behind on progression.

if you allow tanks and healers to get say 600 tomestones a week. while dps can only get 450. then tanks and healers are going to gear up that much quicker in 9 weeks as opposed to 12 for example. if those tanks used there tomes from roulettes on dps gear for there raids they'd have a pretty big advantage over dps players that played only dps

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Make items of the same slot that you already own the items for in a different role cost less.

X slot of slaying, maiming, casting and aiming become Y% cheaper if you own X slot of Healing or Fending.
Eg: If you own Veritial Bracers of Fending, Veritial Bracers of Aiming are now sold by the vendor for 20% less tomestones.

End result: You must buy the tank gear to gain benefit, but by buying the tank gear first you can gear up your DPS job significantly faster as your second job.

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Originally Posted by Nora_of_Mira

while I love the idea of being a "good noodle", what if instead, they just allowed the "role in need" to have 2 earnable daily roulette rewards per roulette? Like, a tank does 50/60 roulette, gets their daily reward, then is allowed 1 more if they queue again as the same role. On paper, tanks/healers would essentially queue twice and allow more DPS to get their daily roulettes off. (is this a good noodle or a bad noodle?)

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Love this idea. IMO I would queue twice as a tank. More XP.

Another Idea that was brewing in the back of my mind: provide an XP token for the in need role. that token can then be applied to whatever class you would like (switch to said class, use token, BAM experience!) it can be scaled to level just like they do the beast quests and such. As a main tank who enjoys playing plenty of DPS alts, I would enjoy this as it gives you reason to play tank more often to benefit your DPS, and doesn't penalize DPS players at all.

EDIT: Just a note on 'penalizing' DPS players. I do agree that any endgame bonus wouldn't work, as it would penalize pure DPS players. Tanks would gear up their DPS classes far faster then a pure DPS class could. Not a good idea. but XP tokens are far more neutral, they can be applied to heal roles as well as DPS roles (even tank roles, level your tank faster), and even at level cap you would have the bonus to give to a DPS alt class. Now that I think about it, the dual roulette would also impact the tomes negatively. I think the XP token is a better idea, and far more flexible and useful then any item based rewards (which really are one shot and your done).