Making Jobs Rotationally Easier in 4.0

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Originally Posted by Zieg_Einherjar

Respectfully, I disagree. Warrior in my opinion, requires more experience with an individual boss to yield superior mitigation results as PLD/DRK with the timing of abilities such as Inner Beast to mitigate tank busters and "out-perform" the PLD or DRK stances and their toolsets.

I do agree that warrior are the best choice for the off-tank for full party+ content with the current meta of their DPS and toolsets, such as storm's path/storm's eye.

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Working harder to perform unequivocally better does not make the job worse than the other two unless laziness is the measure of performance.

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Originally Posted by Instrumentality

Working harder to perform unequivocally better does not make the job worse than the other two unless laziness is the measure of performance.

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Ah, It wasn't my intention to say Warrior is worse than the other two, only that in the role of main tank It requires slightly more effort to meet the standard that DRK/PLD set in the role.

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Originally Posted by whiskeybravo

What the.. Have you heard of balance?

If a tank did as much damage as regular dps, what would be the point of bringing any actual dps? You can just have tanks wrecking whatever you're up against and never die due to their superior defense. Probably wouldn't even need healers with a couple PLD for Clemency.

So, your point is rather invalid. DPS and healers need the tank to be a damage sponge. Tanks need healers to stay alive and need dps to clear content.. Without that balance you'd have basically one class with which everything could be done. Way to make it interesting..

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She said she had no issue with tanks dpsing, she didn't say tanks should put up numbers the dps manage. A tank should be dpsing other wise the OT would just sit there and wait for instructions.

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Originally Posted by Gravton

She said she had no issue with tanks dpsing, she didn't say tanks should put up numbers the dps manage. A tank should be dpsing other wise the OT would just sit there and wait for instructions.

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Thanks for clarifying for me. People are so salty it is hilarious, they can't help but commit mistakes and morally judge people while doing it.
It is like this isn't even a forum about a game.

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Originally Posted by Ahrniel

I main melee dps and I cannot understand why taking hits and going on defensive is so outrageous for a melee fighter, it is in the basics of combat! I can understand a ranged class being unable to tank, but a melee, any melee should be able to at least off-tank. I had that experience with Dragoon a few times in lower level dungeons, had with ninja once, and never had with monk, because it is pretty much impossible. Monk being, btw, another laughable design. A martial artist that cannot take targets head-on without suffering a deep decrease in its own efficiency? Just stop.

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This has been done before. Who knows? Perhaps you could use elusive jump to tank swap.

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Originally Posted by Gravton

She said she had no issue with tanks dpsing, she didn't say tanks should put up numbers the dps manage. A tank should be dpsing other wise the OT would just sit there and wait for instructions.

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Originally Posted by Ahrniel

Thanks for clarifying for me. People are so salty it is hilarious, they can't help but commit mistakes and morally judge people while doing it.
It is like this isn't even a forum about a game.

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Not sure where tank dps came in to the equation.. I was referring to the "cheap artificial fear called enmity". I guess I misunderstood that as suggesting tanks should do more damage, creating "real" threat instead of "artificial" threat.

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Originally Posted by Lyth

This has been done before. Who knows? Perhaps you could use elusive jump to tank swap.

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There's also a video out there of a dragoon off-tanking A3S. So it's not like it's impossible, but it's certainly not the way this game is intended to be played. If your opinion is that it should be, well I guess that's your opinion and you're entitled to it.

What is cheap about Rage of Halone, Butcher's Block and Power Slash?

Or Uchained, Dark Arts Power Slash, Defiance, Shield Oath, etc?

I want to understand the viewpoint.

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Originally Posted by Zieg_Einherjar

Ah, It wasn't my intention to say Warrior is worse than the other two, only that in the role of main tank It requires slightly more effort to meet the standard that DRK/PLD set in the role.

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I play all 3 tanks and to be honest the WAR does not really require more effort than the other two. In my oppinion the WAR even needs less effort than the DRK...PLD ok everything requires more effort than playing the trashcan. ;)

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Originally Posted by Reynhart

Even that can be avoided in a way, by creating more synergies with different jobs. For now, NIN loves WAR because they bring the slashing debuff. You could create a synergy between PLD/DRK and some DPS (or healers). This way, unless everybody start to play the same job, you could have different equal setup. "If you have that job, it's better to bring this tank, if you have that other job, it's better to bring this healer, etc..."
Is it difficult to balance ? Yes, it is. But it's the only way you can continue adding more and more jobs without some of them being thrown out of the elite loop.

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Agreed 100%. Would be nice to have more synergies beyond "WAR/SCH required".

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Originally Posted by Lyth

This has been done before. Who knows? Perhaps you could use elusive jump to tank swap.

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Was a whole lot easier to double Monk tank that fight... Maybe if Elusive Jump worked differently, it and the armor could pay off, but...

...wait, I'm judging "gimmick" play?

Maybe because it's still the same concept as regular play. Or even... is still regular play, so long as it meets the numbers. o.o

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Originally Posted by Instrumentality

What is cheap about Rage of Halone, Butcher's Block and Power Slash?

Or Unchained, Dark Arts Power Slash, Defiance, Shield Oath, etc?

I want to understand the viewpoint.

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[For the enmity combos] Because you COULD design tanking to be about or better have the appearance of actively holding the attention of the enemy and thwarting or diverting its attempts against your party. Instead, enmity and its (enmity-)enhanced skills allow you to simply stack a metric and forget about it... is my best guess.

The Dark Arts Power Slash and tank stances would each require different arguments, of course.