Please reconsider stance on blue mage

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Originally Posted by MilesSaintboroguh

All the monster abilities as of now are laughably bland

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So were most in XI, but people seem to praise Blue Mage there. For the most part I'd say the monster skills in this game and XI are mostly the same... We have spiders with a move that inflicts slow, bats that can drain HP, plants with knock back... Actually, we've got quite a few useful monster abilities; slugs can inflict Pacification, for example (yes that isn't useful at endgame, but regular dungeons and PvP it is amazing, having it not tied to blocking even more so). We've got enemies that can inflict status effects like Dropsy. There are plenty of enemy moves which could have a purpose on Blue Mage.

I'm not going to list them all, but whenever I'm playing I'm frequently going "That would be good for Blue Mage". There are a lot of monster skills that do a lot of different things, there is plenty for Blue Mage to pick from; they're only bland in animation IMO.

I don't see how people think a BLU mage can somehow pass as an off tank or healer. In the end they are mages that can cast spells monsters can.

They'll lack the gear to tank and status buffs can only work for a few seconds and will have long cool downs.

So set the learned monster abilities to come at certain levels just like other jobs have and make fighting said monsters part of the job quests?

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Originally Posted by Dwill

Versatility was there, balance wasn't (and from last I checked, still isn't) there. What good is versatility going to do to you if your class in unwanted ?

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Fun.

I had all jobs in XI to at least 75 except for three. Even the most unwanted jobs I levelled, which were, at various points: SMN, DRK, THF, MNK, BLU etc were fun to play. They were interesting, they each had job-defining characteristics none of the others had. I had a blast playing all of them. In fact the ones that were more of a chore for me to level where the ones that were in the highest demand: PLD, BRD, WHM etc. Because I always felt stressed when I was levelling them as so much was expected of me.

I will admit that part of this is because levelling was a huge part of XI (it isn't here) and the endgame was mostly horizontal progression that offered niches for lots of jobs (BST solo'ing Despot, BLM duo'ing Kaiser Behemoth).

Even just posting this is bringing back memories of low-manning apollyon (the one with the mobs resistant to one damage type on each floor) with a few BLU and a RDM. Or THF and COR duo'ing Charybdis. Or NIN/DRK tanking Proto-Ultima. PUP solo'ing Diabolos. The list goes on and on.

I can only see Bue Mage working if it had a fixed number of spells; 1 physical, 1 magical, and 1 for each main element (earth, wind, fire, water, etc). Each being tought via a battle instance every 5 levels. Given the game mechanic I've seen it's not functional given how FFXIV is set up. Spell lists are job and level related and dont need to be learnd from scrolls. Then what would its primarry and secondary classes be? What weapon will it use? Party Roll? Jobs like Dark Knight, Squire, Time Mage, Geomancer, Shaman, Samurai, Hunter, Mechanic, Puppet Master, Red Mage/Sword Mage, Onion Knight. Are more likely because they can either branch out of an existing Class (ie: Acn> Smn or Sch) or have a unique class with a specialized weapon, and fit into the game style. Mime/Blue Mage is just to broad to fit right, but I can see Bluemage working as an unique enemy job for beastmen, humanoids or homunculus' (if it exists) type mobs.

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Originally Posted by Kotemon

I can only see Bue Mage working if it had a fixed number of spells; 1 physical, 1 magical, and 1 for each main element (earth, wind, fire, water, etc).

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I would rather not see Blue Mage than see one with so few spells. Even as far back as FFV, Blue's Spell list was enormous, it's one of the job's defining features.

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Originally Posted by Aegis

Fun.

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There's a point where balance > misguided notions of "fun". Utsusemi was "fun" but also borked encounter design on several levels. Boss soloing was "fun" but also had lasting repercussions for the jobs involved (RDM in particular has been treated as a leper because of it when it comes to changes that involve making it something that's not a cure/refresh/haste-bot). That list also goes on and on.

I have nothing against fun and ideally a game should be fun and balanced, but balance supercedes your misguided notion of "fun" because said misguided notion of "fun" has lasting effects on the game as a whole.

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Originally Posted by Nalien

So were most in XI, but people seem to praise Blue Mage there. For the most part I'd say the monster skills in this game and XI are mostly the same... We have spiders with a move that inflicts slow, bats that can drain HP, plants with knock back... Actually, we've got quite a few useful monster abilities; slugs can inflict Pacification, for example (yes that isn't useful at endgame, but regular dungeons and PvP it is amazing, having it not tied to blocking even more so). We've got enemies that can inflict status effects like Dropsy. There are plenty of enemy moves which could have a purpose on Blue Mage.

I'm not going to list them all, but whenever I'm playing I'm frequently going "That would be good for Blue Mage". There are a lot of monster skills that do a lot of different things, there is plenty for Blue Mage to pick from; they're only bland in animation IMO.

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I agree. Blue Magic in general is pretty bland, even looking at older FFs where they were basically elemental spells with different names/microscopic twists or extremely gimmicky.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

There's a point where balance > misguided notions of "fun". Utsusemi was "fun" but also borked encounter design on several levels. Boss soloing was "fun" but also had lasting repercussions for the jobs involved (RDM in particular has been treated as a leper because of it when it comes to changes that involve making it something that's not a cure/refresh/haste-bot). That list also goes on and on.

I have nothing against fun and ideally a game should be fun and balanced, but balance supercedes your misguided notion of "fun" because said misguided notion of "fun" has lasting effects on the game as a whole.

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Wait, are you saying 'fun' has an impact on game balance. The most broken things in XI weren't fun. Soul Voice wasn't fun, it was just an ability. Utsusemi wasn't fun by most people's standards, it's just what you did.

Souleater guillotines, now they were fun. Closing distortion Skillchains with a SATA Viper Bite in Garlaige Citadel was fun. Solo'ing imps on BLU was fun. Solo'ing Lamia no. 5 on BST was fun. 5 song rotations on BRD was fun. Soboro Sidewinder builds were fun. Everyone I know who levelled PUP to 75 found it fun even though it was the biggest pariah in XI.

None of these were game breaking. Balance exists independently of fun, unless the only time you enjoy a class is when it's overpowered compared to the others.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

I agree. Blue Magic in general is pretty bland, even looking at older FFs where they were basically elemental spells with different names/microscopic twists or extremely gimmicky.

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Thank you. So many people seem to talk about Blue Magic like it was some amazing thing, when all I remember it for (outside XI) is a bunch of fairly meaningless spells, the odd useful one, and the overpowered/exploit ones (using Level 5 Death to grind levels in the castle basement in FFV).

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Originally Posted by Nalien

Thank you. So many people seem to talk about Blue Magic like it was some amazing thing, when all I remember it for (outside XI) is a bunch of fairly meaningless spells, the odd useful one, and the overpowered/exploit ones (using Level 5 Death to grind levels in the castle basement in FFV).

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The funny thing is that if you were to take a list of spells from FFVI, FFVIII and FFIX, you could grab some spells that would work in an MMO, while most would either be overpowered, underpowered or require heavy modifications to actually work. Traveler, Roulette and Self-Destruct come to mind.