Power-leveling is absolutely BROKEN

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Originally Posted by Majidah

Leveling differs on how much EXP you get from the mob and how high your chains get.
Leveling differs also on how much EXP you need to level up (example: level 1, 100 exp. level 50, 50k exp).

What you wrote isn't an average. It follows a flawed logic.

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No. I never said it was an average. And it's not what is currently existing in FFXIV right now.

I'm think we are misunderstanding each other. My initial post (about 3 pages ago) is based on the premiss that a maximum rate of leveling that the community is comfortable with needs to be established. From there, the community needs to discuss whether or not certain circumstances and/or content should have differing rates. For example, being in a party is a circumstance. Completing NPC quests is content. Should a solo player gain as many levels from 2 hours of completing NPC quests as a player in a party fighting hard mobs? What about easy mobs? What about mobs powerful enough to one-shot kill?

Those are the types of questions (and answers) that would be extremely constructive to the Development Team.

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Originally Posted by Sorel

Using DarkstarPoet's numbers:

30 days (1 month) @ 3 hours/day = Level 50 in one class (level cap).
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90 hours = 50 levels
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1.8 hours = 1 level

Twice as fast. More appealing to the gamer that has a day job and/or family. Two hours after the kids are put to bed will get net her a level. 5 levels a week, maybe more on the weekend. Seems like a reasonable rate, no? But should such a rate be applied to every activity under every circumstance? Should such a player gain levels at this rate playing solo? Or should she have this rate of leveling while in a party? What about Crafting? Or Gathering? Or Questing? Should she get a level after completing 2 hours of quests?

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well there lies more issues once you get into details such as there. i was using this as more of an optimal sp per hour tme frame. if you kill mobs lower than you then you get less, solo gets less, and other non optimal sp per hour would lengthen the time frame. that's why i used the lower time is because if you said 6-8 hours at optimal sp then a solo or casual player would take 12-14 hours instead when it came to ranking up.

as far as the sp it should be the same optimal sp whether you are crafting, fighting, or gathering at your optimal range. i have always felt in a mmo your optimal sp per hour should be in a party or there would be no reason for people to party with each other. i think parties should always be the preferred when playing a multi player game as that is why you get into a game with other people. i understand some prefer to solo, but i do not think they should ever get the same sp as a group. they also shouldn't be punished and get 1/5 of the sp a group does either. there should always be a balance between solo/grouping and i do not know exactly what the balance should be, but they are not equal.

i know even using my lower estimate that hardcores like myself would run out of things to do, but in all honestly we always will. i was more looking at a time frame in which no matter your playstyle you would be able to see an increase in your ranks. i always try to look in a more third person view to see how what i want will affect others.

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Originally Posted by coldviper18

Someone explain to me how to get this insane XP, as leveling otherwise is an extremely long grind once your out of leves... I'm still level 17 and out of leves and have no idea what else to do besides grind? Screw that... Grinding is lame.

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find ppl to party with = insane exp

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Originally Posted by Sorel

Twice as fast. More appealing to the gamer that has a day job and/or family. Two hours after the kids are put to bed will get net her a level. 5 levels a week, maybe more on the weekend. Seems like a reasonable rate, no? But should such a rate be applied to every activity under every circumstance? Should such a player gain levels at this rate playing solo? Or should she have this rate of leveling while in a party? What about Crafting? Or Gathering? Or Questing? Should she get a level after completing 2 hours of quests?

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

well there lies more issues once you get into details such as there. i was using this as more of an optimal sp per hour tme frame. if you kill mobs lower than you then you get less, solo gets less, and other non optimal sp per hour would lengthen the time frame. that's why i used the lower time is because if you said 6-8 hours at optimal sp then a solo or casual player would take 12-14 hours instead when it came to ranking up.

as far as the sp it should be the same optimal sp whether you are crafting, fighting, or gathering at your optimal range. i have always felt in a mmo your optimal sp per hour should be in a party or there would be no reason for people to party with each other. i think parties should always be the preferred when playing a multi player game as that is why you get into a game with other people. i understand some prefer to solo, but i do not think they should ever get the same sp as a group. they also shouldn't be punished and get 1/5 of the sp a group does either. there should always be a balance between solo/grouping and i do not know exactly what the balance should be, but they are not equal.

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So, if I may put some words into your mouth :) ...

Optimal/Maximum Rate "A" = 1.8 hours/level

• Full Party vs. Higher Level Mobs
• Light Party vs. Higher Level Mobs
• Crafting Higher Level Items
• Gathering Higher Level Materials

Sub-optimal Rate "B" = ???

• Full Party vs. Lower Level Mobs
• Light Party vs. Lower Level Mobs
• Solo, Duo, Trio vs. Higher Level Mobs
• Solo, Duo, Trio vs. Lower Level Mobs
• Crafting Lower Level Items
• Gathering Lower Level Materials
• Questing (NPC, Escort, Storyline, etc)

This is a very simplistic outline. Rate "B" right now is a catch-all. Input from the rest of the community would help flesh this out into a level-rate schedule that everyone could be comfortable with, and the the Development Team can implement for us.

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Originally Posted by Sorel

So, if I may put some words into your mouth :) ...

Optimal/Maximum Rate "A" = 1.8 hours/level

• Full Party vs. Higher Level Mobs
• Light Party vs. Higher Level Mobs
• Crafting Higher Level Items
• Gathering Higher Level Materials

Sub-optimal Rate "B" = ???

• Full Party vs. Lower Level Mobs
• Light Party vs. Lower Level Mobs
• Solo, Duo, Trio vs. Higher Level Mobs
• Solo, Duo, Trio vs. Lower Level Mobs
• Crafting Lower Level Items
• Gathering Lower Level Materials
• Questing (NPC, Escort, Storyline, etc)

This is a very simplistic outline. Rate "B" right now is a catch-all. Input from the rest of the community would help flesh this out into a level-rate schedule that everyone could be comfortable with, and the the Development Team can implement for us.

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in a general gist yes.

the optimal level would be the types of things i was referring to for optimal sp. when you get into sub b though there's some issues that have to be taken into consideration

Sub-optimal Rate "B" = ???

* Full Party vs. Lower Level Mobs - these should be a sliding scale. the lower the mob the less sp you will get per kill, therefore, less overall sp per hour.

* Light Party vs. Lower Level Mobs - same as above on a sliding scale.

* Solo, Duo, Trio vs. Higher Level Mobs - this to me should be in a1 because you are still putting in the effort to fight higher mobs, therefore, should get higher sp per kill, but with less people the sp per hour would be decreased.

* Solo, Duo, Trio vs. Lower Level Mobs - this is more along the lines i look at with farming. the sp would be pretty low because of the low risk/low reward issues.

* Crafting Lower Level Items - same as the battle classes scales down the farther below you that you get.

* Gathering Lower Level Materials - same as the battle classes scales down the farther below you that you get.

* Questing (NPC, Escort, Storyline, etc) - this one can become complicated because there are muliple different types of quests available. here's more of a rough outline of how they should be ranked on the type, but these are just opinions.

1 storyline quests
2 primals
3 class quests
4 company quests
5 leves
6 behesting
7 caravan
8 side quests

these would have to be on a sliding scale and the time taken to perform each quest should be a factor in deciding the amount of sp gained per quest.

edit: the issue with putting on a time frame once you get into the second subgroup is you have to take into consideration of a risk/reward system. if i am rank 40 what sp per hour should i get doing 35, 30, 20, and 10 level mobs? you can't put a set rate on them overall because each would have to be different because i am taking more risks the higher the level project i am taking on.

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Originally Posted by XxOstiaxX

Are you being serious right now ? Really ? I mean Seriously!? The hardest part to 90% of HNM and Bosses in FFXI was the requirements to pop them up, and getting the man power to zerg then down while your tank holded aggro :/ Spending days and weeks gathering the items or waiting on spawns for the chance to fight a HNM or boss is not Hard! It is a TIMESINK! Timesink does not equal difficulty, it never did in EQ, why should it be so in FFXI( a FF version of EQ) ?

About AV! He was a TANK AND SPANK FIGHT! Serious question here, what part of that fight, was not a tank&spank fight ? Your tanks hold aggro your dps stand and dps him down, that was the hole fight :/

Oh and PW was a joke, that was not even a boss fight, it was simply impossible to beat at the time it was released, and plain simply a stupid encounter design from SE, and they themselves went and nerfed both him and AV afterwards :/

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Well.. not to sound rude, but with that Post you kind of proved me right.

1. Its Common knowledge that AV wasnt beat for a LONG Time, so if it was only Tank and Spank, how is that even possible?
2. You obviously never did HNM's, since you dont know that 90% of the Pre-ToAU HNM's were not Item-Popforced.
3. I still did not talk about Timeconsuming, since waiting for a Pop has nothing to do with the Fight itself.
4. By your logic every Fight is Tank and Spank, so basically all of the MMO's are Tank and Spank.
5. Did you ever fight AV, Jorm, Vrtra, etc? Or are you just "assuming"?

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So yeah now please do tell me again about FFXI boss fights being harder than Mirmidon HM

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Meh...

Phase 1:

TANK AND SPANK <--- There you go.

Phase 2:

TANK AND SPANK + Curespam

Phase 3:

TANK AND SPANK + Kiting

Phase 4:

TANK AND SPANK + Mix of the previous Phases.

So.. i guess you are right. Those fight are really not Tank and Spank. :) And like i said before, WoW vs. FFXI are always ridicilious Discussion, so we should Stop here and Focus on the Topic. Which is FFXIV-Powerleveling.

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Originally Posted by darkstarpoet1

edit: the issue with putting on a time frame once you get into the second subgroup is you have to take into consideration of a risk/reward system. if i am rank 40 what sp per hour should i get doing 35, 30, 20, and 10 level mobs? you can't put a set rate on them overall because each would have to be different because i am taking more risks the higher the level project i am taking on.

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I understand what you are saying about risk/reward. But what's the risk? There is no death penalty in FFXIV. Do you mean the equipment durability penalty? Do you think that is enough to be considered a true risk on the player's part? No sarcasm. I'm just asking an honest question.

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Originally Posted by Sorel

I understand what you are saying about risk/reward. But what's the risk? There is no death penalty in FFXIV. Do you mean the equipment durability penalty? Do you think that is enough to be considered a true risk on the player's part? No sarcasm. I'm just asking an honest question.

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the risk is the tougher the mob you are fighting the longer you fight it and the more of a chance to die. if you don't reward the risk associated with doing stuff higher level then people will just spam killing r1 marmots if they give the same sp as raptors and you can kill them 10 times as fast.

why would i go and fight in a group of r50+ raptors in a group of r40's if i can go by myself and just run through a set of marmots and spriggans and get better sp? i can 1 shot the marmots, but it takes a few seconds to kill the raptors and they may kill me(if i die i get no sp at all).

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Originally Posted by Sorel

I understand what you are saying about risk/reward. But what's the risk? There is no death penalty in FFXIV. Do you mean the equipment durability penalty? Do you think that is enough to be considered a true risk on the player's part? No sarcasm. I'm just asking an honest question.

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When a player dies he should lose all his souls, he'll then have to run back to get them in order to retrieve them. If he dies in the way they'll be lost forever.
His HP should be reduced and the enemies should become stronger too.

Also, if he was alive when this happened the world should turn further into a dark tendency which raises the quantity and power of monsters.

Oh wait. That's Demon's Souls. But here we whine losing exp is too harsh.

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Originally Posted by XxOstiaxX

Please nero, get on with the times man, Tank and Spank content is NOT HARD!! By no MEANS!! FFXI has the worst end game content of any MMORPG from the last decade, why do people think that time consuming = HARD CONTET! It is not, 99% of FFXI contet is tank&spank :/ hell Hard mode lich king is harder than anything on FFXI, lets not even talk about ulduar <.<

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People who believe FFXI End Game was like this did not play it. FFXI was one of the few MMOs that required every member of the party to actively participate. Tanking(Straight Tanking, Kiting, and Blink Tanking) + Crowd Control + Enfeeblement + Stunning + Skill Chaining + Magic Bursting(Yes FFXI End Game requires Skill Chains and Magic Bursts) + Healing. On top of that every Boss had specific mechanics that were not found in any other fight. Every fight was different. Tank and Spank implies that any group can win as long as you have a Tank and a Healer. This was absolutely never true in FFXI.