White Raven earring given out at The Rising event 2018

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Originally Posted by Darrcyphfeid

No kiddin'? It's almost as if he used real life examples to illustrate a point to people

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It's blindingly obvious what he was doing, but when your real-life example is so radically different to the point of being incomperable to the situation at hand, it's not "bad faith" to point that out.

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Originally Posted by Darrcyphfeid

And one for the road: No one in this thread wishes to deny latecomers and casuals from (most) rewards. Specifically in the case of the White Ravens you know exactly why people are upset: Something they had to work for was just, quite literally, handed out to anyone lv30 or higher that can get into The Rising 2018 instance. It's not their fault the battle doesn't exist anymore.

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Barring bringing back the original fight or designing a new one of similar difficulty (which I think we agree is a disproportionate amount of effort involved for a legacy item and obviously won’t happen), adding the item to a five year commemoration of the events of 1.0 is about a respectful way to bring the item back as any. Since by your own words you aren’t arguing to keep the items away for exclusivity alone, how WOULD you suggest they bring it back, given the limitations above?

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Originally Posted by Emstidor

Barring bringing back the original fight or designing a new one of similar difficulty (which I think we agree is a disproportionate amount of effort involved for a legacy item and obviously won’t happen), adding the item to a five year commemoration of the events of 1.0 is about a respectful way to bring the item back as any. Since by your own words you aren’t arguing to keep the items away for exclusivity alone, how WOULD you suggest they bring it back, given the limitations above?

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If you want to tie my hands and not allow me to say the obvious "how about we make new items," the only compromise worth discussing is the implementation of the oft recommended Replica White Ravens or black-variant The Ravens. It's not ideal to just take those models and use them for something else - see also the issue with the Zodiac Brave Relics - but short of creating an appropriately difficult reimagining of Rivenroad HM or putting them in as a reward for something like minimum ilvl Turn 9 Savage it's the best option available.

The biggest issue with replicas, aside from still being on the wrong end of that devaluation line, is that there's the very real problem that some people are getting less out of this event than others just by virtue of already having those item models.

Hellluuuuuu

I'm glad the really important issues of this game get addressed. /s

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Originally Posted by Dzian

the fact its digital makes no difference at all.

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It kinda does though. Real life medals are yours for the rest of your life, hell you can even pass it on to your future grand children. A digital pair of earrings which can easily disappear if the game closes down mean you'll have nothing to show for it but your memories.

Real life rewards cannot be compared to temporary digital ones.

How about yall argue about important issues like lack of fun content.

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Originally Posted by Kurando

Real life rewards cannot be compared to temporary digital ones.

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There are a lot of businesses that probably should have collapsed a decade or two ago, then.

In your example most people would probably see more value in a digital item they earned than a Medal of Honor/Purple Heart/whatever handed down to them from a grandparent. They would acknowledge that the service award has meaning, yes, and depending on closeness of relationship may or may not have value of a sentimental nature. But still. Similarly, I have a couple of martial arts trophies (not of the participation variety) from about 20 years ago and they don't really mean anything to me because that may as well have been a lifetime ago and I haven't seen or heard of any of my acquaintances from that period in about 15 years. I guess the counterargument there might be "but you're more physically fit and able to defend yourself than you otherwise would have been and that has value," and that's true on some level, but the exact value is dubious as I - and most people, I assume - do not get into physical altercations. Like, ever.

There are a great many nihilists that will tell you that physical items don't have value either and that everything is ultimately meaningless. Doesn't mean they're right.

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Originally Posted by Neon231

How about yall argue about important issues like lack of fun content.

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Why not do both? Start a thread and I might join in. Or I might just save myself the effort and take a nap since the game is, unfortunately, still a little too profitable for Yoshida to take most of our concerns seriously.

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

SE actually did release a compilation disc of 1.0 cutscenes with the Collector's Edition of ARR, called The Waning of the Sixth Sun. This disc only includes the 7th Umbral Era event cutscenes though, it does not include cutscenes for the original 1.0 starting city storylines and the truncated Path of the Twelve story. This is because those storylines were being cannibalized for ideas and concepts for ARR's storyline, and SE probably did not want to 'spoil' that.

Thus, this shows that really only the 7th Umbral Era story is still fully 'canon' to ARR - the original starting city story and the Path of the Twelve were effectively abandoned and retconned (quite a few ideas and 1.0 story concepts still remain canon in ARR, such as F'lhaminn and her connection to Thancred, and Minfilia's deceased father Warburton), but the majority of 1.0's original story has been quietly ignored or outright decanonized, SE seeming to adopt a "it's only still canon if we say so" stance unfortunately in regards to 1.0's story).

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Huh, I didn't even realize that they decided 1.0 wasn't canon anymore due to the fact that so much of what I actually have managed to see does transition from 1.0 to 2.0 in such a way that makes sense, as well as even referring to the Path of the Twelve in 2.1. Not that knowing that would've stopped me from looking back to what was back there. Inquiring minds have just got to know, as it were. Things like learning that Mimidoa's troubles with Sirens, in one form or another, are never truly over was worth it. That and learning how Hildibrande actually went to Dalamud in order to fall back down to Eorzea in the first place was good. Typical Hildibrande. Also that 1.0 Gaius sounds a little bit like Darth Vader. That was funny to.

Didn't know they actually made a DVD as well, clearly. I never bother with collector's editions so I didn't look to see what came with it. I suppose I didn't make it extremely clear in the first post, apologies, but what I really want to see is specifically what isn't in the cutscenes but still pushes the storyline forward. The text that npcs say when you talk to them. The cutscenes are adequate, they get the general point and flow across, but it's like listening to one person on a three way conversation or so. I can dream at least, I'm not going to get a copy of the script anywhere, hah!

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Originally Posted by Enkidoh

Either way, sadly the Path of the Twelve storyline ultimately ended up being quietly dropped at that point and was never completed, with the 7th Umbral Era story taking over (when Primal fights were added, besides Ifrit and Garuda a more 'cute' summon was decided to be added instead of Titan and Leviathan in the form of Good King Moggle Mog.

I admit it may be confusing to a new player, but really, the way ARR is written, ARR's main scenario really does not require knowledge of these prior events to enjoy or understand, as ARR really just retread the same ideas and concepts 1.0 had already dealt with, but in a different manner. So don't feel you've really missed out on that much only joining the game in ARR.

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That's kind of a shame to, just axing the story like that. I understand why they did it of coure, it seemed like it was interesting. At least, the parts of the Path of the Twelve storyline I did manage to see was.

Yeah, the MSQ in ARR absolutely makes sense without prior knowledge, but I feel like the way it was crafted combined with the circumstances in which ARR came to be makes people that seriously, truly care about the lore of the game wonder about what happened before the Calamity more then if ARR was just the 1.0 instead of the 2.0. Enough to go browse the internet? Eh, probably not, but surely everyone at least wondered about it, right? The first 15 levels or so continually hammers what the Calamity was and what happened due to it into your head, and it keeps popping up at intervals past that. World altering events are a pretty big deal, I'll admit, but that combined with knowing that there actually was a world before the Calamity just made me curious.

Thanks for confirming I couldn't find anything because nothing exists to be found though. I had just assumed that surely they put something there that segued into it at least somewhat logically. Guess not! heh

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Originally Posted by Darrcyphfeid

The simple fact of the matter is, and this isn't meant to be malicious, the truth is that you don't care about value/prestige/exclusivity because you haven't earned anything to protect. Your tune would be entirely different otherwise.

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Well I have in another game. I still have some stuff in WoW that is no longer obtainable (or at least was not up until I stopped playing, can't speak for now) and generally I am against exclusivity that renders it impossible to gain something after a certain time. I prefer to watch players enjoy something than greedily hang on to my old trophies.

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Originally Posted by Darrcyphfeid

Most people, I would think, are not upset that a "pair of earrings" were given away. No, they're upset that an achievement was given away.

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I understand this but some 1.0 players are saying things like "we are the true supporters of the game" and not "we killed that boss and now it looks like you did too". Some of the 1.0 players here are more interested in reminding the rest of us that we somehow matter less than getting SE to rename some loot

SE could rename the "new" earrings because their databases would still have logs showing when something was looted, but obviously doing something like this would take a lot of time and money. So whether they think it's worth doing it or not is another thing altogether.

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Originally Posted by Darrcyphfeid

"White Ravens shouldn't be protected because nothing else is protected" is looking at it from the wrong angle. "White Ravens should be protected so Ultimate and future high-end fights retain value" is the correct angle. Yes it sucks that Rivenroad isn't available anymore to even have a shot at trying your hand at, but unfortunately that's just how it goes for now.

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Don't put ultimate and the earrings in the same basket. Ultimate is in a class of its own. At most the earrings can be compared to savage or ex loot.

Also I don't think everyone wants the earrings protected because they were from a challenging boss. From what many say here it's clear that some want them protected because they want to maintain a fictional upper class status. I am referring to the people who have said that 1.0 players are the true supporters of this game.

Sorry but unless something is a reward SE specifically gave to players because they played 1.0, such as the chocobo and the tattoo, then it being obtainable later is up for debate. The earrings were not awarded for playing 1.0, they were awarded for killing a specific boss. Not the same thing.

And for the record I am heavily against making the tattoo and the chocobo (and any other items gifted specifically for being part of 1.0) being made available for 2.0+ players. They were awarded solely based on participation of the game in that era. It would be a disservice to 1.0 players to unlock them for everyone else. But I repeat the earrings do not come under this because they are boss loot, not something SE gifted to every 1.0 player.

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Originally Posted by Penthea

Well I have in another game. I still have some stuff in WoW that is no longer obtainable (or at least was not up until I stopped playing, can't speak for now) and generally I am against exclusivity that renders it impossible to gain something after a certain time. I prefer to watch players enjoy something than greedily hang on to my old trophies.

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I think you have to take the situation with a little bit of context. 1.0 and 2.0+ are essentially different games, so crossing rewards over is always going to be a little bit funky. The problem with this game is the entire lack of respect for ALL rewards. People are used to their hard-earned rewards being devalued, they aren't happy about it but they come to expect it. 1.0 rewards were always an exception, the gap between games always meant that the forced expiration of content couldn't reach them. I think people are less upset about the earrings themselves (being greedy about their trophies as you say) and more upset that the one safe haven of meaningful rewards in this game has finally been destroyed. Now every single reward in this game is open for forced expiration, ultimate, pvp, anything you work hard on.