Please add damage meters, Yoshi P.

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Originally Posted by FireMage

Imagine calling Ultimates casual. Also you should care, carrying others should not be something you do

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Who cares? Its group content and someone's always going to be carried. It ain't that serious.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

Who cares? Its group content and someone's always going to be carried. It ain't that serious.

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I care, and so should everyone else. And saying someone will always be carried is garbage logic

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Originally Posted by FireMage

I care, and so should everyone else. And saying someone will always be carried is garbage logic

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Stop getting so many damage downs and deaths then? *shrug*

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Originally Posted by Ransu

Stop getting so many damage downs and deaths then? *shrug*

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That FireMage point too, he don't want people stacking those like candy in his team anymore.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

Stop getting so many damage downs and deaths then? *shrug*

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Stop having people kill me? Yeah I'll get right on that t-cup. Again, I don't get carried, evict me from your head would you please? Dismissed

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Originally Posted by Magikazam

That FireMage point too, he don't want people stacking those like candy in his team anymore.

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He's the one failing the mechanic though lol.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

Who cares? Its group content and someone's always going to be carried. It ain't that serious.

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They're talking about Ultimate content, in general you're not carrying anyone at that level.

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Originally Posted by Magikazam

Just sound to me you want to be carried for the reward with no repercution if you play badly.

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oh no you saw right through me

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Originally Posted by Mikey_R

Striking dummies. The vast majority of low DPS comes from players not using their job actions properly. Even if you don't want to go through the balance or look up rotations, you should still be able to piece together an acceptable rotation, utilising all the actions available to you. Just going from a DRG only using Heaven's Thrust combo (and yes, I have seen that) to one that alternates between Heaven's Thrust and Chaotic Spring is going to be a relatively massive gain, start adding in LotD and suddenly their DPS has jumped up again. Knowing your job basics and getting used to them on a striking dummy is going to do far more for someone than trying to learn in a dungeon.

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but your argument is good, sir
have like °˖✧◝(⁰▿⁰)◜✧˖°

If everyone plays perfectly then no one will be "carried". Speaking of which, I hear robots can call out mechanics better than any human. I'm sure the two don't correlate though. ;^)

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Originally Posted by Deceptus

They're talking about Ultimate content, in general you're not carrying anyone at that level.

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Ehhhhh. Yes and no. UCoB and UwU are so watered down nowadays you can absolutely zombie through them. Hell, some raiders are running "Death-cob". The current "high score" if you will is 91 deaths and they still have the DPS to kill Bahamut. Now that isn't something a casual group could accomplish but it does highlight just have ridiculously lax both fights have become. TEA is somewhat carriable if you give your weaker link all the easy assignments. They'll have very little to do until Wormhole. DSR is really the sole exception where you can't carry someone. We don't yet have the damage to overcome DPS checks after multiple deaths and damage downs and most of the fight is one massive mechanic check.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

Ehhhhh. Yes and no. UCoB and UwU are so watered down nowadays you can absolutely zombie through them. Hell, some raiders are running "Death-cob". The current "high score" if you will is 91 deaths and they still have the DPS to kill Bahamut. Now that isn't something a casual group could accomplish but it does highlight just have ridiculously lax both fights have become. TEA is somewhat carriable if you give your weaker link all the easy assignments. They'll have very little to do until Wormhole. DSR is really the sole exception where you can't carry someone. We don't yet have the damage to overcome DPS checks after multiple deaths and damage downs and most of the fight is one massive mechanic check.

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I'm doing UWU and have cleared TEA, I'm not really seeing how in either of these you can give someone an easy assignment, or how constant deaths don't risk the entire run, especially considering any player can be hit with mechanics they have to handle.

In UWU, everyone has to know how to do feather rains, clearing stacks/getting the correct number of stacks, how to do Ifrit dashes, both healers have to know how to handle searing wind, everyone has to know how to do Titan gaols and movement around his AoEs, everyone has to know how to move for all of Ultima's mechanics (annihilation and suppression).

In TEA, everyone has to know how to handle their dolls, how to bait water cones, how to move for limit cut, how to deal with nisi (and if one person dies during nisi it's a guaranteed wipe), how to do the various other mechs DURING nisi, wormhole, beacons and tethers, trines.

Like, sure, UWU you can have someone not parsing great because the DPS check for that fight is silly, but both UWU and TEA you absolutely need to have people doing mechanics correctly in several parts, and you can't carry through those because plenty of them will cause wipes if the "person being carried" dies because they don't know what they're doing.

Personal damage meters need to be implemented though. I am fine if everyone were able to see their own numbers.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

He's the one failing the mechanic though lol.

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Swing and a miss. You clearly can't read logs

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Originally Posted by Zebraoracle

I'm doing UWU and have cleared TEA, I'm not really seeing how in either of these you can give someone an easy assignment, or how constant deaths don't risk the entire run, especially considering any player can be hit with mechanics they have to handle.

In UWU, everyone has to know how to do feather rains, clearing stacks/getting the correct number of stacks, how to do Ifrit dashes, both healers have to know how to handle searing wind, everyone has to know how to do Titan gaols and movement around his AoEs, everyone has to know how to move for all of Ultima's mechanics (annihilation and suppression).

In TEA, everyone has to know how to handle their dolls, how to bait water cones, how to move for limit cut, how to deal with nisi (and if one person dies during nisi it's a guaranteed wipe), how to do the various other mechs DURING nisi, wormhole, beacons and tethers, trines.

Like, sure, UWU you can have someone not parsing great because the DPS check for that fight is silly, but both UWU and TEA you absolutely need to have people doing mechanics correctly in several parts, and you can't carry through those because plenty of them will cause wipes if the "person being carried" dies because they don't know what they're doing.

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It's all relative given the content what you consider "carrying." If someone can execute mechanic but is woefully behind the others in terms of DPS then they're still being carried. It necessitates everyone else to pick up that slack or to do mechanics that would otherwise be skippable.

On the specific Ultimates you mentioned. Melee have almost no responsibility whatsoever in UwU after the Garuda cleanse. And no, everyone doesn't need to know the order. Only the three people cleansing do and the healers for healing. Ifrit dashes are very easily a "follow the leader" mechanic. If someone dies, it doesn't actually matter because Ifrit should be practically dead going into his dashes. If you've never seen the infamous "Seeya WoW players" clip, it highlights just how easy the Primals are due to their nonexistent DPS check. When you can sack three people, including a tank, without even the slightest drawback, it means the fight is "carriable."

TEA is less egregious but responsibility is not evenly shared. For example, you can have the tanks bait instead of DPS/healers. In BJ/CC, you can have a less experienced player just stay put and someone else passes Nisi to them. They still have to have an idea of what they're doing but far less so than everyone else.

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Originally Posted by FireMage

Swing and a miss. You clearly can't read logs

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Damage downs in p6s are from mechanics you're responsible for dodging. You didn't get them from a teammate lmao.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

Damage downs in p6s are from mechanics you're responsible for dodging. You didn't get them from a teammate lmao.

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This just in, dark dome was patched out. I repeat dark dome does no longer exist. Lets gooooo.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

Damage downs in p6s are from mechanics you're responsible for dodging. You didn't get them from a teammate lmao.

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Again, you clearly can't read logs. You're cherry picking instead of looking at the whole picture. Incredibly scummy thing to do really

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Originally Posted by Saraide

This just in, dark dome was patched out. I repeat dark dome does no longer exist. Lets gooooo.

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Really? Dark Dome? lol... All you have to do is pay attention to the rando who's out of position and...avoid where he was bating the dome at. He never got hit by dark dome anyways. Most of his damage downs are from Choros Ixou.

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Originally Posted by Ransu

He's the one failing the mechanic though lol.

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You haven’t established that. Just that he has damage downs and death in some of his logs. As others have said you’d have to show a comparative statistic. In x% of his pulls firemage gets damage down which is well below his other party mates average of Z

THAT is carried. Frankly deaths aren’t always your fault nor is it your fault when you play flawlessly thru 14 wipes and the one pill everyone figures it out you were half a pixel too far one way.

Firemage stay living rent free in the minds of FFXIV community.

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Originally Posted by Bobby66

Firemage stay living rent free in the minds of FFXIV community.

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Community is a stretch. Only a few folks here even care to respond to the guy. At least certain folks who are no longer present put up actual arguments that weren't just "I'm better peon, bow down" lmao

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Originally Posted by Bobby66

Firemage stay living rent free in the minds of FFXIV community.

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At this point I wanna see how over fed he can be.

Lmao here we go again. Hard to believe that I first saw a topic like this back in 2013. Nine years later, here it is again.

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Originally Posted by Bobby66

Firemage stay living rent free in the minds of FFXIV community.

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You misspelled Icemage. ;^)

You misspelled Titanmen :-D

Oh yes by all means give people more reason to belittle, harass and suck all the enjoyment of playing a game in their free time by “scoring” people on a scale that most times isn’t even relevant to someone’s competence. *EYEROLL*. Dps meters already totally destroyed the joy and camaraderie of raiding in this game. Isn’t that enough??

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Originally Posted by Ken_8O

Oh yes by all means give people more reason to belittle, harass and suck all the enjoyment of playing a game in their free time by “scoring” people on a scale that most times isn’t even relevant to someone’s competence. *EYEROLL*. Dps meters already totally destroyed the joy and camaraderie of raiding in this game. Isn’t that enough??

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See here's the problem, game is based on pulling your weight in a party

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Originally Posted by Ken_8O

Oh yes by all means give people more reason to belittle, harass and suck all the enjoyment of playing a game in their free time by “scoring” people on a scale that most times isn’t even relevant to someone’s competence. *EYEROLL*. Dps meters already totally destroyed the joy and camaraderie of raiding in this game. Isn’t that enough??

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Since when has ACT ruined the joy of raiding in this game? Do you even do savage/ultimates? Or are you just, *gasp*, making baseless claims?

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Originally Posted by Zebraoracle

Since when has ACT ruined the joy of raiding in this game? Do you even do savage/ultimates? Or are you just, *gasp*, making baseless claims?

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So I guess you missed the instances where folks are bullied due to not having as high a performance as others. There's a reason SE hasn't put it in the game officially. Let's not pretend this stuff doesn't happen. We literally have folks in these treads saying they would or have kicked for supposed "dead weight" reasons.

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

So I guess you missed the instances where folks are bullied due to not having as high a performance as others. There's a reason SE hasn't put it in the game officially. Let's not pretend this stuff doesn't happen. We literally have folks in these treads saying they would or have kicked for supposed "dead weight" reasons.

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If you're referring to the Koike incident, it's quite disingenuous to blame parsing. While yes, they bullied the woman over her poor performance. They also took to Twitter and harassed her further with sexual remarks and a whole host of other awful things. These were people who made up their mind to be horrible and likely would have done so in any way they could. You can just as easily harass someone via Vote Dismissal, stalking or tell spam—all of which were just as against the rules as belittling someone over their performance. Should we remove those features too?

Not wanting parsing openly acknowledged in the game is one thing but trying to insinuate it will be the root cause of toxicity is just unfounded doomsay. The only way parsing would ever get that bad is if SE suddenly stopped enforcing their harassment policy.

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Originally Posted by ForteNightshade

If you're referring to the Koike incident, it's quite disingenuous to blame parsing. While yes, they bullied the woman over her poor performance. They also took to Twitter and harassed her further with sexual remarks and a whole host of other awful things. These were people who made up their mind to be horrible and likely would have done so in any way they could. You can just as easily harass someone via Vote Dismissal, stalking or tell spam—all of which were just as against the rules as belittling someone over their performance. Should we remove those features too?

Not wanting parsing openly acknowledged in the game is one thing but trying to insinuate it will be the root cause of toxicity is just unfounded doomsay. The only way parsing would ever get that bad is if SE suddenly stopped enforcing their harassment policy.

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I don't to much care about whataboutisms if I'm speaking honestly. Nowhere did I say it's the root cause of anything. I simply said people would use it to harass people. Again folks here have even admitted to this so you have no ground to deny that if you tried.

Also I'd say it's disingenuous to claim it had nothing to do with parsing with her situation. It's all relative really. Folks just went above n beyond to do more to harass. But that is far from the only situation where folks use parsing to harass others.

Hell I'm not even against it. I literally said if we put it anywhere put it in savage/ultimate but keep that mess away from the rest of the game. I've seen folks telling people they had crap parses in potd before. Like we don't need that crap at all

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

I don't to much care about whataboutisms if I'm speaking honestly. Nowhere did I say it's the root cause of anything. I simply said people would use it to harass people. Again folks here have even admitted to this so you have no ground to deny that if you tried.

Also I'd say it's disingenuous to claim it had nothing to do with parsing with her situation. It's all relative really. Folks just went above n beyond to do more to harass. But that is far from the only situation where folks use parsing to harass others.

Hell I'm not even against it. I literally said if we put it anywhere put it in savage/ultimate but keep that mess away from the rest of the game. I've seen folks telling people they had crap parses in potd before. Like we don't need that crap at all

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It's disingenious to pretend that just because an official parser was implemented that the TOS on harassment would suddenly vanish. What do you think would happen if I went off on someone failing a mechanic? Why do you think going off on someone's numbers would lead to a different outcome?

People will harass others for whatever reason. They blame others for the sake of blaming and they can already see how much dmg you do with the help of third parties, not much would change. The people that care about this, already have the means.

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

I don't to much care about whataboutisms if I'm speaking honestly. Nowhere did I say it's the root cause of anything. I simply said people would use it to harass people. Again folks here have even admitted to this so you have no ground to deny that if you tried.

Also I'd say it's disingenuous to claim it had nothing to do with parsing with her situation. It's all relative really. Folks just went above n beyond to do more to harass. But that is far from the only situation where folks use parsing to harass others.

Hell I'm not even against it. I literally said if we put it anywhere put it in savage/ultimate but keep that mess away from the rest of the game. I've seen folks telling people they had crap parses in potd before. Like we don't need that crap at all

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"It's disingenuous to point out my posts are disingenuous!"

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Originally Posted by SassyAssassin

People will harass others for whatever reason. They blame others for the sake of blaming and they can already see how much dmg you do with the help of third parties, not much would change. The people that care about this, already have the means.

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Gosh, thank you. The people who are going to be dicks *already have the means*.

Also, again, if someone puts up a PF, it's ENTIRELY WITHIN THEIR RIGHT to kick someone who they feel isn't performing to their standards/prevent whoever they want from outright joining.

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Originally Posted by SassyAssassin

People will harass others for whatever reason. They blame others for the sake of blaming and they can already see how much dmg you do with the help of third parties, not much would change. The people that care about this, already have the means.

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Call me when Console players can use ACT or any 3rd Party Tool. Many of yall seem to forget they exist

I've seen people kick others out for not being a specific class before.
I've seen people take stuff like gear and melding as an excuse to shame others.
Even not using potions or food gets comments thrown around.

Meanwhile ACT can do some good, and it's up to the community to make sure it outweighs the bad... which it technically does on the sheer virtue that groups that use ACT likely aren't going to trash you just for underperforming unless you have to meet a certain standard.

If you do, guess what, it's reportable.

Because it's not just that SE is against that sort of thing.
Raiders overall also have a modicum of braincells enough to know that using ACT for that sort of thing is bad and not acceptable.

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Originally Posted by Zebraoracle

"It's disingenuous to point out my posts are disingenuous!"



Gosh, thank you. The people who are going to be dicks *already have the means*.

Also, again, if someone puts up a PF, it's ENTIRELY WITHIN THEIR RIGHT to kick someone who they feel isn't performing to their standards/prevent whoever they want from outright joining.

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Btw what was even the point of the first thing you said? Nothing about my post was disingenuous. It is a fact that parses play a role in people being targeted. If you feel that's disingenuous I suggest you look up what the word means.

Also sure people CAN kick who they want for whatever reason they deem worthy, just don't be shocked when people call you toxic for it when it's due to a parse number. (Especially in content where that number doesn't really matter). I'll say again to my knowledge console players don't have a means to parse information.

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Originally Posted by IkaraGreydancer

Also sure people CAN kick who they want for whatever reason they deem worthy, just don't be shocked when people call you toxic for it when it's due to a parse number. (Especially in content where that number doesn't really matter). I'll say again to my knowledge console players don't have a means to parse information.

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You're missing the point.

We all know this. No one is disputing it.

People are just not making a big deal out of it like you have been.

They're acknowledging it can happen and that it sucks but that there's more to it than toxicity. You're the only one who seems to demonize it for its potential bad applications :x

You sure you're not blowing it out of proportion?

I just do not get it, ToS has rules in place that already meant to punish such behavior, yet for some reason it seems people want it to be proactive which punishes people that would use it legitimately because person X will use it to harass. Who are we to say person x would not harass someone anyways without it.

Stop being afraid of what ifs. Someone abuses the tool report and move on.

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Originally Posted by Midareyukki

You're missing the point.

We all know this. No one is disputing it.

People are just not making a big deal out of it like you have been.

They're acknowledging it can happen and that it sucks but that there's more to it than toxicity. You're the only one who seems to demonize it for its potential bad applications :x

You sure you're not blowing it out of proportion?

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Where did I make a big deal of it though?
Where did I demonize it? Like legitimately are you paying attention?

For the what, 3rd time? I said make them legal in Savage and Ultimate but keep it away from the rest of the game. If I was really demonizing it I wouldn't advocate for it in the game at all. Is this really so bad?