Seals are so easy to get now that the crying to make them even easier is getting comical.
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06-10-2012, 09:16 AMMadruk
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06-10-2012, 09:27 AMHypnotic13371337mind helping me farm them if its so easy?Quote:
Originally Posted by Madruk
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06-10-2012, 09:36 AMNieshua
1,384 LMAO
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06-10-2012, 09:55 AMMadrukIf the money's good. Think it's been 30ish seals the last three days.Quote:
Originally Posted by Hypnotic13371337
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06-10-2012, 09:59 AMHypnotic13371337well i dont have millions upon millions but i could split up what i got into 9thsQuote:
Originally Posted by Madruk
actually nvm, ive gotta start saving up my gil for the millions ill need to spend on materia/weapons -
06-10-2012, 05:00 PMBabydoll
Yeah better start farming...then once you beat the RNG, you too can be elite! I am not wooooorthy lol
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06-10-2012, 09:28 PMFiron
Hey guys the other day i triple melded 3 tier 2 materia for my blm wand, am i a skilled player now?
Edit: Then i dbl melded 2 tier 4 str materia to my gloves then 2 tier 3 int materia for my blm hat(2 of them) am i Really skilled now? This was all on first tries I must be the most skilled person in the game :) -
06-10-2012, 09:38 PMAsiaineIf by 'triple' melded '3' tier 2 materia you meant you put on 9 materia, then you are super douper skilled player.Quote:
Originally Posted by Firon
If by 'triple' melded '3' tier 2 materia you meant you put on 3 materia, then you are just highly skilled player.
What we must fear:
Congratulations, we have raised limit to 60. AND you can upgrade your weapon to 60. Just add a third materia to it. If it blows up, start again from scratch.
Unless......................................
Direction, Time of Day, Moon Phase, Weather Condition, Location, and equipping lucky dice DO increase your chance of melding? (IN addition of course to having a taru dance behind you whilst you attempt it). And it is the SKILLED player that realizes this?
Randomization: How to make 15 minute content last 15 hours. -
06-10-2012, 11:11 PMJinko... hmmmm.. ok i won't say it >.>Quote:
Originally Posted by Firon
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06-11-2012, 01:15 AMFironthanks jinko >_>Quote:
Originally Posted by Jinko
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06-12-2012, 01:48 AMKiara
Hi All,
Just wanted to post my results from an entire weekend of grinding Hamlet Defense. I'll post 2 sets of results - one for the individual (myself), and one for what the party got (8 people):
*** 25 Hamlet Defense Victories ***
[3 Victories were Gold Chest = 50,000+ Points (due to some minor mixups, we just fell short of the Best Chest]
[22 Victories were "Highest Rated Coffer" / Best Chest = 65,000+ Points every time]
* My Progress / Results *
- 0 (ZERO) Primal Seals = 0 / 25 [<-- Demoralizing, ZERO Progress Toward Relics]
- 2 Militia Hats, 3 Militia Barbuts, 2 Militia Armets, 2 Militia Gauntlets
* Entire Party Progress / Results *
- 5 Primal Seals = 5 / 200 [Note: 8 People's Individual Chances * 25 Runs]
- At least 1 Militia Hat, Barbut, Armet for every single 65,000+ run we did. 4 Militia Gauntlets, 1 Militia Caligae.
And that's an example of the "wonderful" Random Number Generator at work. I'm glad to hear some people getting Primal Seals "all the time," but for the groups I ran with, it was simply DEMORALIZING and mind-numbing.
It got so bad, that 2 separate JP people during the weekend runs with me created Party Chat Macros (with hilarious JP ASCII Faces laughing at essentially "Yet ANOTHER Militia Hat / Barbut / Armet again?!" dropping).
So "yes" the new 60,000 Best Chest in Hamlet does have a 100% Guaranteed Drop... except it's of a Militia Barbut, Hat or Armet (depending on the Hamlet you go to). They're becoming more ubiquitous than the dreaded Cutter's Cry Thormoen's Subligar. :rolleyes: It's certainly *not* a Primal Seal.
One of the JP people I was running with has been a Top 20 Contributor multiple times since Seals were added and through this weekend? 0 (ZERO) Primal Seals earned.
And yet we have people having gotten their Soiled Promissory Note (9 Primal Seals) already done.
How is any of this "skilled" or motivating or even fun?
It's not.
As others have said, I'd rather Yoshida-san measure out whatever amount of time he wanted to keep the average player busy and divide that up amongst # of runs and please give us *Consistent Measurable Progress* each time we continue on the Relic Quest.
I'd rather it be, for example,
* Prove Your Valor: Defend the outlying Hamlets from Beastmen Forces 200 Times (Earn 200 "Militia Totems") [And EVERYONE gets a 100% chance to get 1 Militia Totem each Victory.]
Instead of the Random Number Generator we have now.
I suppose if you run with a Static Party each time, you'd just give all the Seals to one person (leader) and then another and another and get it that way.
But it's just brutal for those of us NOT on the side of the Lucky Dice Roll.
In closing again, we're NOT asking for anything to be "easy" or "faster":
We just want a system with more Consistent, Measurable Progress (like a Totem / Point System) that recognizes EVERYONE'S effort for each Victory they attain.
And ideally, steps to the Relic that actually reward more Skill / Effort / Grant Interesting Challenges, than just forcing players to Double Meld Materia, or run Hamlet Defense ad nauseum.
Thanks~ -
06-12-2012, 02:03 AMSigmakan
This is a somewhat related thought. The whole needing 3mil to hit level2 is kinda dumb. You're locking out content for the majority of the week because of some stupid convoluted game mechanism. I get that they want to make DoL/DoH important part of this by contributing Militia items, but people are still going to be fighting over top20 (assuming its Lv2) so there will always be a need for that. Not getting level2 really hurts Hamlet, as it makes it pointless for that 25 hour span. Just lower the Lv2 requirement to 1mil so people can start working on their seals everyday of the week. Not everyone has time to marathon through a weekend to get seals.
/endrant
Oh Kiara, the chest is shared amongst everyone, its not an individual chest. So as a group you guys went 5/25 (which is about average). Sucks that none fell to you :/ Did the seal drop rate seem higher for 60k+ runs? -
06-12-2012, 02:10 AMOrophin
Wow, reading over all those steps and actually seeing the stats for the weapons, I kind of don't even want to bother. I know they have to keep us occupied till the end of the year, but damn...
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06-12-2012, 02:19 AMMolly_Millions
I'm probably just gonna try to get a triple melded Demi Moore axe and call it a day. This quest is absolutely ridiculous.
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06-12-2012, 03:19 AMEstellios
I just wanted to throw out my opinion for any devs that may gander at this thread. I have no problem with the Materia melding part of the quest, personally, since in most dedicated LS's there is going to be someone who can gather or craft the items in question and spiritbonding can be done whenever with whoever.
My issue with the hamlet defense portion is really that the entire group doesn't benefit and it stinks having to lump the items into one person. If you do increase the amount of seals required and make them 100% drop (when you reach a certain score?) please allow everyone participating to get one so that everyone feels like they are progressing and pickup groups happen more often. Considering how long this takes it is only fair that everyone putting in their time gets to benefit.
That was probably my biggest issue with the Relic system in FF11, you needed 30-60ish people and a ton of money all for a single person's item and that is asking way too much from a group and is just asking for drama and backstabbing and the like. It would at least make my group feel better as when we are able to group up it would be great to feel like the entire group is getting somewhere and we can share our victories as well as feel better about helping out the ones that aren't able to log on as often due to work and family.
So yea, to summarize please redesign the current content and design future content around the entire group progressing with each victory. -
06-12-2012, 03:21 AMKiaraHi Signakan,Quote:
Originally Posted by Sigmakan
Great point about Hamlet Level 2 contribution. Totally agree. :) During the week, you can see that people are just busy / realize they might not get enough contributions (or they're fighting to be Top 3 on the weekend) so no one contributes. Which leads to it being pretty empty / wasted during weeknights (at Level 1).
Good point about the chest being shared with everyone. I guess I wanted to present it in light of all 8 People and their Efforts / Rewards / Progress.
It takes 8 people to get in and beat Hamlet with a great score, and even if it's shared, for 8 different people, their results are basically "0" unless the Seal fell for them. So out of 200 Chances for 8 People, only 5 Seals dropped the entire weekend for numerous attempts. :(
I didn't feel like the Seal Drops were increased for the Special Chest at all. Towards the end of all 3 days, everyone was just throwing away the Militia Barbut / Armet / Hat because everyone had one already. -
06-12-2012, 03:49 AMDeadRiser
This is great. Once I can actually randomly get the seals from Hamlet, I get to spend 200k mil on an already double melded class specifc weapon.
I can't wait ^^....
>.> -
06-12-2012, 04:03 AMReinheart
One thing I read on the JP side talking about relic weapons which I kinda agree now knowing how much effort it takes to get one
Why show job concept, images, 2.0 images all images with he job characters using these weapons if they are so hard to get? Kind of made players think the weapons comes with AF gear/quest.
Then goes back to my original thinking where AF weapons were pretty simple to get like the AF gear then from there you build up on to change the looks/stats more by advancing through more hardcore/crazy quests as level cap increases which only handful of people will ever see and those who can't/give up can go back to crafted weapons and still attempt materia melding on those which should be easier than the hardcore version of the AF weapons. But again initial AF weapons being pretty simple to obtain at first for the looks but not too good in stats at beginning stage.
But anyways back to RNG topic...~ -
06-12-2012, 04:18 AMMadruk
Just wait until you see the next steps, it will probably add another 40 pages to this thread.
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06-12-2012, 04:29 AMOrophinI would think that obtaining the first renditions (not the crappy ones with no stats) of the AF weapons wouldn't be so tedious to obtain. Upgrading them past this should be the challenging part. This feels like the equivalent to doing one phase of the relic weapon quest in FF11 due to the RNG of drops, HQ synth materials and successful melds, however the stats on the weapons don't seem to be THAT much of an upgrade over the current best.Quote:
Originally Posted by Reinheart
Not to mention we haven't even had a level cap increase yet, so who knows how quickly these will become obsolete until a new quest is put in at the next level cap. -
06-12-2012, 04:29 AMReqDamn, thats just really unlucky. I did hamlets all weekend with my ls, we probably did around 50 runs total and we have one person with 8/9 seals and everyone else that went has around 2-3. Not to mention we got a fishing hat and a diggers to drop. I was in the top 20 each time and I personally only got 3 (all from aleport) but I am satisfied with the drop rate in general. As far as I could tell we would get a seal about 75% of the time, and came out of each hamlet with over 10 seals for each one spread across different people.Quote:
Originally Posted by Kiara
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06-12-2012, 04:37 AMWevlum
There is no fun or challenge to be had with relic weapons. Screw them.
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06-12-2012, 04:38 AMTheVedis
For how much people are hating on relics, it sure is amazing how many tells i get every time i shout that i have an open spot for hamlet...
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06-12-2012, 04:51 AMWevlumIs it more than the number of likes for this thread? x.xQuote:
Originally Posted by TheVedis
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06-12-2012, 04:53 AMTheVedisonly if you divide it among the number of serversQuote:
Originally Posted by Wevlum
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06-12-2012, 05:05 AMJynx
I think adding something quantifiable to the hamlets themselves would do wonders.
Give us some seals for winning doesn't even have to be alot just something to motivate people who allready have what they want. Some people are jerks and need motivation to help there "Friends" and it's a bonus for those who would go just to help. -
06-12-2012, 05:05 AMWevlum30+ tells per shout then apparentlyQuote:
Originally Posted by TheVedis
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06-12-2012, 05:06 AMTheVediswhich is a whole damn lot if you really think about itQuote:
Originally Posted by Wevlum
more then i see for anything else ive ever shouted for -
06-12-2012, 05:12 AMLibby9
Well, here's to hoping that they extend the quest much further before we can obtain the relic weapons. Seeing as people are already at the AV/CC stage within the 1st week of the quest being released, it seems almost too easy.
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06-12-2012, 05:20 AMDeadRiserYou've gotta be joking me... Easy? The majority of it is luck if you would have read what the requirements were thus far. People are already started past the Hamlet seals because they spammed it enough before the latest update.Quote:
Originally Posted by Libby9
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06-12-2012, 05:27 AMEstellios
Another idea I had would be alternate, more reliable, but ultimately slower means to get beastmen seals or any other RNG related item.
For example, there can be an Amaal'ja NPC outside Ifrit that gives you a quest, and you must fulfill certain Challenges in the Ifrit battle in order to complete it and get a seal:
- DRG and MNK: After Ifrit uses Hellfire, successfuly complete a Chaos Thrust or Simian Thrash combo and remain alive for the rest of the battle.
- BRD: Defeat Ifrit without using Light Shot (so you have to auto-attack for TP and lose your distance survivability) or some challenge involving songs.
- BLM: Land the killing blow on all Infernal Nails, or kill X of them in one battle without anyone else attacking them.
- Can't think of one for tanks, but some kind of tank challenge. Maybe clearing it without using specific abilities. WAR can alternately kill 2 nails with one Steel Cyclone (if there are any that are close enough together for this to be possible).
It could be made so that after completing the quest you have to wait a week in order to be able to accept it again. If each seal has a similar quest then a static group can have this section of the quest done in 2 weeks.
Alternatively, someone suggested letting us trade in beastman currency for seals. The currency doesn't have any current use and you can have it be the consolation prize from hamlets instead of having Dark Matter there. Seals could still drop normally and since the content can be spammed it would be faster than the quests.
For the double meld thing, they could change it so that you can use those specific class-only weapons but change it to only requiring a T4 single meld (give anyone that turned in a double meld already some kind of "skip one portion of the quest" item) with a T4 double meld required for any normal weapons level 45+. That might be a bit too easy though. -
06-12-2012, 05:30 AMTheVedisbut you see, it is easy in a way, the people getting it are doing it so much theyve had time to collect the seals they needQuote:
Originally Posted by DeadRiser
and a ton of people complaining...arent doing it AT ALL so of course they arent gonna make an progress -
06-12-2012, 06:38 AMZell
This Relic system is going to make everyone hate the existing content. I like the content as is... it's like eating 10 pounds of Snickers in one sitting.... you're going to hate Snickers for a very long time after that.
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06-12-2012, 08:06 AMZezlar
Think the seal drop rate is bad? You guys have a surprise waiting for you when the mythril stage comes. :P
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06-12-2012, 08:11 AMJohnSereti like thatQuote:
Originally Posted by Psion
it would be a balance between the OPs suggestions (which could be finished like in a week) and the now system (which takes several month and frustration and envy...) -
06-12-2012, 09:11 AMDelmontybSame, and I think Yoshi-P talked about this already in one of the E3 interviews... I believe. If I can find the link I'll post it in an edit. :)Quote:
Originally Posted by JohnSeret
EDIT:
Found it:
http://www.1up.com/features/ffxiv-in...nix-fallen-mmo
And here is the quote:
Quote:
1UP: A couple things in the game right now that seem to be, as Final Fantasy XI players might say, are "haunted by the ghost of Tanaka." For example, the Relic weapon quests that were just added yesterday seem to rely very heavily on luck. And this kind of thing is really discouraging to a lot of players. An element of luck is okay, but effort is more important. And there's always the thought that, yeah, if I do this enough times, I might get lucky and get it, but there's always the fear that they won't. Especially after the Ifrit and other boss battles. I know people say that they fought 75 times and they haven't gotten a weapon yet, and they're just really frustrated, and they're upset to see that same thing happening in other systems. So are there any plans to adjust the luck/effort balance of high-level content in the future?
NY: We can tell you that at version 2.0, a lot of things are going to be changing in this aspect. For example, like a token type of system, where if you do it enough times, you're going to get rewarded for doing it that many times. We also have something else prepared as well that's going to address this... we can't talk about it now, but we have many things in place that will address that issue.
And the other thing being that, the real need for the Need, Greed, and Pass type of system when things get dropped, things that are pretty much a global standard that we haven't achieved yet on Final Fantasy XIV. We understand that we have those problems, but with the current system, we can't address them. But we will be able to address them in 2.0 with the new system and the new engines. And so you can go back and tell the community that, come 2.0, we will actually have that global standard and you won't have to worry as much about these types of things. But again, that doesn't mean we're going to forget about our current version players. We're going to listen to the voices of the players, look at the forums, adjust drop rates to reduce as much stress as possible for the players so they can experience this grand finale, the Seventh Umbral Era story, that ushers in 2.0.
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06-12-2012, 09:17 AMIcehunter
Doesn't change the fact I just broke my 7th Mailbreaker in double-melding attempts. Does my 40mil (most of which friends donated) somehow equal the 4mil my other friend spent to make his?
SE I want my happy-ending damn it!. The subligar is off. So-to-speak. -
06-12-2012, 10:32 AMEard
just look at all these suggestions..... now i just hope Yoshi-P doesn't suddenly give us "item levels" and daily rep quests. along with the suggestions given by the people here, FF14 will be just another WoW and the metagame for grouping will be for those with relic weapons only, anyone without a relic or x3 meld items will NEVER get a group.
they already stated that relics are long-term goal/achievements. read: LONG-TERM! its not something to be done in a week! -
06-12-2012, 11:04 AMRathSkybreakerI think your missing the point, at least the point of the OP...Quote:
Originally Posted by Eard
No ones asking for something easy
No ones asking for the relic to be handed to them
What they are asking for is for the game to not capitalize on mundane systems (pRNG in every thing that has to do with end game) that will deter 90% of the people who aren't currently playing for the game. Instead, create a system that is harder, locks you out, or overall has a measurable goal that you can steadily make progress to. With the current system, to me, it looks like blatant luck all the way around. Relics to me were never meant to be a symbol of luck, in XI, or any other game that has a similar mechanic with relic-esque weapons, it was a symbol of dedication to a goal that seemed nearly impossible. With this system I know that I can either get it really early, somewhere in between, or really late and that all depends on luck, that's completely different.
Give me story worth doing, give me hard goals that make me actually want to play the game, give me content that rewards me if I put in time. Not content that makes me love the game for a day, then hate it the next. -
06-12-2012, 01:00 PMDzianQuote:
Originally Posted by TheVedis
Quote:
Originally Posted by Wevlum
Quote:
Originally Posted by TheVedis
Did you remember to factor in that only 3% use the forums?Quote:
Originally Posted by Wevlum
If you consider how many likes there are with 3% How many would there be with 100%?
Currently 311 likes / 3% players who use the forum = 31.1 like per 1% of players
31.1 x 100 = 3110 likes for all players (That's a lot of likes)
311 likes per server (That's a lot of tells)