Viera and Hrothgar Megathread

Poking to push thread

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

Considering viera were only added for fan service and the only place they’re native to is on the opposite side of the world from where we’re going in EW, I don’t think we’ll see much if anything about their native culture beyond what the NPC on the theater airship has already told us, let alone viera-inspired gear.

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Aren‘t we going to Thavnair, the island right next to the place where ivalice is based?

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Originally Posted by Fukuro

Aren‘t we going to Thavnair, the island right next to the place where ivalice is based?

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Thavnair is still an ocean away from Dalmasca. What I meant by what I said, is that there's not much of a chance of us stopping by the viera homeland on a detour in EW on our way to do anything worthwhile. We may see some viera in Thavnair for sure, but all viera who abandon the wood are not practicing their culture anymore and usually take hyur names. We're not going to be wrapped up in their culture to the extent that we were with the viis in ShB.

The same discontent, I like this race, but not being able to wear store glamor in full volume and not having store hairstyles is very depressing.
Why can't they even do things for real money.
Komon I pay money for this

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

Yoshi-P said in an interview or a live letter once that the First’s viis are the same as the Source’s viera. Something about understanding the viera culture via the viis we meet in ShB.

Considering viera were only added for fan service and the only place they’re native to is on the opposite side of the world from where we’re going in EW, I don’t think we’ll see much if anything about their native culture beyond what the NPC on the theater airship has already told us, let alone viera-inspired gear.

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The Viis of the First are 90% friendly versions of the FF12 Viera, with the 10% being the Ronkan specific stuff and the lack of powers that are basically identical to Gridanian Hearers with the Elementals.

The deal is we asked for Viera, specifically Viera, for so many years that the devs took very few liberties in how they were implemented in FFXIV, thus the Viis being just like the FFXII Viera. I mean, if you know Viera lore from XII, you can even see that Veena are literally the outcasted and mountanous Feol Viera in all but name. The default in the creator is even min height!

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

Thavnair is still an ocean away from Dalmasca.

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https://i.imgur.com/JvExWya.jpg

Remember 4.0?

Though I won't hold my breath for it, chances are there will be only some tie-in with Bozja. But the rebel situation in Dalmasca is putting us into the same position like in 4.0.

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Originally Posted by BunnyChain

https://i.imgur.com/JvExWya.jpg

Remember 4.0?

Though I won't hold my breath for it, chances are there will be only some tie-in with Bozja. But the rebel situation in Dalmasca is putting us into the same position like in 4.0.

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I’m not sure what you’re trying to prove with that picture. There’s still an ocean in between Thavnair and Dalmasca, which means no zone lines.

Right now we know of the zones on the moon, Thavnair, and Garlemald. All 3 are completely separate from each other. At best, you would need to talk to an NPC to travel between them. If they add Sharlayan like people think they will, that will make 4 and I doubt they’d add even more completely separate zones and I’m betting the other unknown zones are connected directly to Garlemald, which is in the extreme far north.

On top of that, Bozja is a separate storyline. Unless they add a continuation of Bozja to EW, they’re not going to have a zone that depends on you completing the Ivalice raids and Bozja to the MSQ.

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Originally Posted by MikkoAkure

I’m not sure what you’re trying to prove with that picture. There’s still an ocean in between Thavnair and Dalmasca, which means no zone lines.

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4.0: we traveled to Kugane, then from there over the Ruby Sea to Doma.
Now we will travel to Thavnair, from there you either go to Othard or Ilsabard, perhaps over the "Gornos Narrow". A "detour" and introduction of Viera's homelands practically lends itself here.

Giving this a morning bump o3o

Wherever else we end up going in Endwalker hopefully there's someone there that can teach Jandelaine some new tricks. :cool:

I'm begging for some short ponytails. I will never let my subtime lapse again if they grant me this single hairstyle.

More short hair styles in general! I don't forsee changing Adonis' hair much cause it's so specific to my vision of her but it'd be less awkward to change it up if it was another short hair do <3

Let's get this video to trend for the sake of all Viera's and Hrothgar's. We deserve so much more.

https://youtu.be/hr6Fzn4jlUk

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Originally Posted by BlackOprheus

Let's get this video to trend for the sake of all Viera's and Hrothgar's. We deserve so much more.

https://youtu.be/hr6Fzn4jlUk

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I saw that video. While the optimist in me agrees with her assessments, part of me just feels that, in the grand scheme of things, hairstyles and more hat options for Hrothgar and Viera aren't very important to the game compared to, say the new Ultimate fight (which was ultimately delayed until Endwalker), so I highly doubt that the upcoming Fan Fest will mention the issue at all.

For me, it's a catch-22 type situation: not enough people play hrothgar/viera to justify spending resources adding more hat and hairstyle support, which in turn makes people less likely to play hroth/viera due to their limited customization compared to the other races, which in turn causes SE to see that spending resources on adding more support would go to waste.

Personally, I'd love to be 120% wrong on this, but a part of me thinks that considering they've mostly been hush-hush about the whole thing, it's been abandoned for more pressing and more relevant issues to the game at large (the aformentioned Ultimate, the Endwalker expac, the new jobs/dungeons/raids/alliances/etc., and other features they're working on like the Island Sanctuary, among others).

[Edit] Just wanted to also add that considering we've gotten quite a lot of new hairstyles since Shadowbringer's release, along with new hat/helmets in 5.1 and on, the fact that they didn't even bother to model anything to Viera/Hrothgar outside of a few instances (like one of the casting/healing hats from the first Nier alliance raid, the octoberfest-themed hat for Viera) and not a single hairstyle (not even the NIER ones!) was given any modeling to Hrothgar (due to the hair being tied to the faces) and Viera (to my knowledge, they can't use the Nier hairstyles, but I may be wrong on that) just makes it more apparent to me that support wasn't even considered from the get-go.

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Originally Posted by BlackOprheus

Let's get this video to trend for the sake of all Viera's and Hrothgar's. We deserve so much more.

https://youtu.be/hr6Fzn4jlUk

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I was wondering when She was gonna break her silence since shes an avid Viera supporter!

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Originally Posted by HiromuNakamura

I saw that video. While the optimist in me agrees with her assessments, part of me just feels that, in the grand scheme of things, hairstyles and more hat options for Hrothgar and Viera aren't very important to the game compared to, say the new Ultimate fight (which was ultimately delayed until Endwalker), so I highly doubt that the upcoming Fan Fest will mention the issue at all.

For me, it's a catch-22 type situation: not enough people play hrothgar/viera to justify spending resources adding more hat and hairstyle support, which in turn makes people less likely to play hroth/viera due to their limited customization compared to the other races, which in turn causes SE to see that spending resources on adding more support would go to waste.

Personally, I'd love to be 120% wrong on this, but a part of me thinks that considering they've mostly been hush-hush about the whole thing, it's been abandoned for more pressing and more relevant issues to the game at large (the aformentioned Ultimate, the Endwalker expac, the new jobs/dungeons/raids/alliances/etc., and other features they're working on like the Island Sanctuary, among others).

[Edit] Just wanted to also add that considering we've gotten quite a lot of new hairstyles since Shadowbringer's release, along with new hat/helmets in 5.1 and on, the fact that they didn't even bother to model anything to Viera/Hrothgar outside of a few instances (like one of the casting/healing hats from the first Nier alliance raid, the octoberfest-themed hat for Viera) and not a single hairstyle (not even the NIER ones!) was given any modeling to Hrothgar (due to the hair being tied to the faces) and Viera (to my knowledge, they can't use the Nier hairstyles, but I may be wrong on that) just makes it more apparent to me that support wasn't even considered from the get-go.

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One could mention about the new battle content, but its safe to assume that the team that is in charge of developing hairstyles/ armors/ glamours (I.E. The character development team) is a completely different team from the Battle Content development team as, since you mentioned previously, new glamours/hairs/armors have come out despite the ongoing pandemic while battle content was stifled a bit. Essentially, saying that V/H are shafted because battle content is comparing apples to oranges...you just cant since they're handled by two entirely separate teams which are overseen by 1 person. Now, if Yoshi was re-allocating resources (I.E. taking people from the character development team and moving them over to the battle content team to get that content out on time, then Yea, I'd be more in agreement with you, but so far, no battle content (minus Ultimate) has been shafted because of the pandemic as far as we know)

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Originally Posted by BlackOprheus

Let's get this video to trend for the sake of all Viera's and Hrothgar's. We deserve so much more.

https://youtu.be/hr6Fzn4jlUk

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Totally agree with her entire video, and I’m happy someone that SE actually works with/recognizes in the community finally talked about it at length. She kept it respectful but honest, and I hope that if they haven’t by now, that the FFXIV team will take notice and actually, you know, say something.

I’m trying so hard not to get my hopes up for Fanfest.

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Originally Posted by BunniEclair

Totally agree with her entire video, and I’m happy someone that SE actually works with/recognizes in the community finally talked about it at length. She kept it respectful but honest, and I hope that if they haven’t by now, that the FFXIV team will take notice and actually, you know, say something.

I’m trying so hard not to get my hopes up for Fanfest.

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Its really hard especially considering its right around the corner and we're going to get a pretty sizable amount of information for EW. Its getting harder and harder to keep my expectations tempered and low, but ugh...its next satruday....gfjdskhfbkds

I love my bunbun too much so I went back to her but yes please, more hairstyles!
(over the last few years - on 3 different characters but still - I went from Miqo to Midlander to miqo to midlander to aura to midlander to miqo to aura to viera to aura to viera to miqo to viera... I’m so fed up to be torn because of hairstyles)

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Originally Posted by Akimori

One could mention about the new battle content, but its safe to assume that the team that is in charge of developing hairstyles/ armors/ glamours (I.E. The character development team) is a completely different team from the Battle Content development team as, since you mentioned previously, new glamours/hairs/armors have come out despite the ongoing pandemic while battle content was stifled a bit. Essentially, saying that V/H are shafted because battle content is comparing apples to oranges...you just cant since they're handled by two entirely separate teams which are overseen by 1 person. Now, if Yoshi was re-allocating resources (I.E. taking people from the character development team and moving them over to the battle content team to get that content out on time, then Yea, I'd be more in agreement with you, but so far, no battle content (minus Ultimate) has been shafted because of the pandemic as far as we know)

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True, the people working on the battle-side of the game are separate from the team working on the character dev. team, among the other teams working on XIV.

That said, I'm pretty sure the entirety of Creative Business Unit III (the one essentially now in charge of FF11 and 14, if memory serves me right) themselves are somewhat split since they're also working on FFXVI now, so I expect their divided attention to so many different projects is (in my speculation, anyway) causing them to decide what exactly is necessary to focus on. In this case, what exactly is the big picture and what will apply to the majority of the player-base of Final Fantasy XIV, in the grand scheme of things. So having to go back and remodel pre-existing meshes, allowing future helm/hat models to appear on hroth/viera models, and even the task of getting hairstyles to work on said hroth/viera models is, by and large, not a pressing matter in comparison.

Like I said earlier, I would love to be wrong on this, but that's just how I see it.

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Originally Posted by CalliopeDragonsong

I love my bunbun too much so I went back to her but yes please, more hairstyles!
(over the last few years - on 3 different characters but still - I went from Miqo to Midlander to miqo to midlander to aura to midlander to miqo to aura to viera to aura to viera to miqo to viera... I’m so fed up to be torn because of hairstyles)

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Same... Since ShB, I've been: Au Ra, Viera, Miqo'te, Au Ra, Viera, Au Ra, Viera, Miqo'te, Viera, Au Ra, Viera, Miqo'te, Au Ra, Hyur, Viera, Miqo'te, Au Ra, Viera, Viera, Au Ra, Viera, Miqo'te, Viera, Miqo'te, Hyur, Viera, Au Ra, Au Ra, Viera, Miqo'te....

It sounds like a joke... It's not. The only thing innacurate is the order.. I've switched so many times, I cannot remember it. In fact, I've probably done so more times than listed there... :eek:

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Originally Posted by HiromuNakamura

True, the people working on the battle-side of the game are separate from the team working on the character dev. team, among the other teams working on XIV.

That said, I'm pretty sure the entirety of Creative Business Unit III (the one essentially now in charge of FF11 and 14, if memory serves me right) themselves are somewhat split since they're also working on FFXVI now, so I expect their divided attention to so many different projects is (in my speculation, anyway) causing them to decide what exactly is necessary to focus on. In this case, what exactly is the big picture and what will apply to the majority of the player-base of Final Fantasy XIV, in the grand scheme of things. So having to go back and remodel pre-existing meshes, allowing future helm/hat models to appear on hroth/viera models, and even the task of getting hairstyles to work on said hroth/viera models is, by and large, not a pressing matter in comparison.

Like I said earlier, I would love to be wrong on this, but that's just how I see it.

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Yeah, going back and remodeling headgear? That's probably a no go, I think we just have to hope more headgear is made wearable (rather displayable) in the future for hroth/viera.. They should at least make the artifact headpieces work for them... Also, for hairstyles and hrothgar heads sooner than later.. since it's already been later..

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Originally Posted by SturmChurro

Yeah, going back and remodeling headgear? That's probably a no go, I think we just have to hope more headgear is made wearable (rather displayable) in the future for hroth/viera.. They should at least make the artifact headpieces work for them... Also, for hairstyles and hrothgar heads sooner than later.. since it's already been later..

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Maybe they've taken a third option here? To where they've tweaked how the Viera/Hrothgar head models work in a way to where they no longer need to adjust old helms, because come EW the update will upgrade the head models to where it's no longer an issue? That's what I hope for at least, since that would probably take the least amount of work.

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Originally Posted by RyuDragnier

Maybe they've taken a third option here? To where they've tweaked how the Viera/Hrothgar head models work in a way to where they no longer need to adjust old helms, because come EW the update will upgrade the head models to where it's no longer an issue? That's what I hope for at least, since that would probably take the least amount of work.

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I do recall something like this, when Yoshida was talking about the graphical upgrade (?) in an interview, but that wouldn't happen for quite awhile. Might even take a couple expansions. Unless they have something up their sleeve, I think we are going to be seeing more of the same for viera/hrothgar, unfortunately. I'm trying to keep my hopes tempered, even thinking about just new hairstyles for viera, leaves me thinking I'm going to be disappointed come fan fest.

Y’all with Fantasia pain ... lol, I’ve done it so much for YEARS my FC friends finally staged an intervention. I’m not... I’m not joking. That’s honestly why I’m still Highlander despite wanting to be a bun again.

On tweaking the models, that’s actually way MORE work than just adding a few new hair styles just because of the established complexity of the faces. It wpuld be far smarter to just design future gear with all models more often in mind for compatibility.

One week left to disappointment, I think. I really hope I am wrong though. I would LOVE for them to come out and say that the two races are getting an upgrade of any kind.

Bumping to say that I’m so glad that Zepla made that video. It’s everything we’ve all been saying for so long. I feel a little hopeless that anything will ever come of this, but a tiny part of me is still hoping SE does what will make a big part of the community genuinely happy. I’ll have so much more respect for them, which is something I desperately want.

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Originally Posted by flipwizardmagoo

Bumping to say that I’m so glad that Zepla made that video. It’s everything we’ve all been saying for so long. I feel a little hopeless that anything will ever come of this, but a tiny part of me is still hoping SE does what will make a big part of the community genuinely happy. I’ll have so much more respect for them, which is something I desperately want.

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Total pipe dream, but I'm almost hoping that we heard so little for so long because they were working out how to fix Hrothgar.

Since I dont play with the aesthetician as much as a hrothgar (for obvious reasons), I decided to try it anyway today and found that I could change my patterns via that NPC?......I can....change my patterns (stripes, spots, nothing, etc) via the aesthetician, but....not my hairstyle.....

.....What?

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Originally Posted by Akimori

Since I dont play with the aesthetician as much as a hrothgar (for obvious reasons), I decided to try it anyway today and found that I could change my patterns via that NPC?......I can....change my patterns (stripes, spots, nothing, etc) via the aesthetician, but....not my hairstyle.....

.....What?

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Yeah it seems like the patterns are in the spot hairstyles would normally go, so you can freely change those.

They either couldn't work out how to modify all 8 hairstyles to work for every head, or they didn't think it was necessary and patterns would be enough "unique customization" to justify it.

Like LisSquid said, hopefully the reason it's taking so long is because they've heard the feedback and are working on fixing that. But the fact they even though it was a good idea to release them like that in the first place isn't very encouraging.

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Originally Posted by Yencat

Yeah it seems like the patterns are in the spot hairstyles would normally go, so you can freely change those.

They either couldn't work out how to modify all 8 hairstyles to work for every head, or they didn't think it was necessary and patterns would be enough "unique customization" to justify it.

Like LisSquid said, hopefully the reason it's taking so long is because they've heard the feedback and are working on fixing that. But the fact they even though it was a good idea to release them like that in the first place isn't very encouraging.

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with only like 5 patterns, thats hardly "unique customization" haha. Im going to assume its the former, but I do remember thenm showing off hroth for the first time and it had a hroth that was using the couerl face, but had the runar hairstyle attached to it, so I dont even know anymore

https://pbs.twimg.com/media/Est6U1yU...g&name=900x900

This is still the most disappointing part of this expansion for me. I liked a lot of things about ShB, loved the story, love dancer, etc. ... I have a few complaints, and there were some weaker points, but on the whole I enjoyed it.

Viera and Hrothgar, though? Extremely disappointing execution. Disappointing enough that I stopped playing my Viera, even though I absolutely love them - I love their look, I love their animations, I love how they look in some of my favorite sets, and I even like several of the hairstyles they do have. I used to hate playing tall characters, but now I love that too because of them. But that little twinge of disappointment every time I found a new hat I couldn't see, or when SE added a new hairstyle that I couldn't wear, eventually added up and drove me off of playing them. And Hrothgar have it worse, imo. Probably bad to say, but I'm glad I don't really like them anyway. x.x

I swapped off Viera ages ago, and it's only gotten easier to resist the temptation to switch back. I want to be optimistic, but if they don't get any updates in 6.0, I'll probably just write them off my list for good.

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Originally Posted by Akimori

with only like 5 patterns, thats hardly "unique customization" haha. Im going to assume its the former, but I do remember thenm showing off hroth for the first time and it had a hroth that was using the couerl face, but had the runar hairstyle attached to it, so I dont even know anymore.

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I completely agree it's not a good substitute for changing your hair at all. Unless you're shirtless 24/7 (no judgement from me there. :p) you can't even see it.

That image probably either means they originally intended for more hairstyle+face combos and they had to pivot later on for whatever reason, or they just threw something together to have the image to show before the race was actually completely finished? :confused:

IIRC they finished them just before they showed them off, and even then they still had to do some polishing on them before release.

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Originally Posted by Yencat

I completely agree it's not a good substitute for changing your hair at all. Unless you're shirtless 24/7 (no judgement from me there. :p) you can't even see it.

That image probably either means they originally intended for more hairstyle+face combos and they had to pivot later on for whatever reason, or they just threw something together to have the image to show before the race was actually completely finished? :confused:

IIRC they finished them just before they showed them off, and even then they still had to do some polishing on them before release.

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Id go shirtless 24/7, but this game has some really nice shirts/tanktops that I love wearing T_T

If your first statement is true about them having to change it later down the line for whatever technical limitations they're running into, I wish they were a bit more transparent about it....It would definitely quell a lot of the frustration everyone is facing (yoshi's team included). I mean, they were more transparent on why M.Viera/F. Hrothgars weren't going to be a thing at ShB release (but he has made hints that he wants to do them later down the road) because of the rising costs of development. So, the fact that hes more hush hush about hairstyles (especially since this expansion has seen its fair share of hairstyle releases for other races) and even the newer glamour items, its a bit unsettling. Im just really holding onto the slim fact that the keynote this saturday will shed some light on this entire debacle. I especially hope it sheds some light on why the team decided to make Hrothgar players have to pay real $$$ to do something that literally every other race can do for free. Changing the patters should be something you spend actual money on since you're changing something on your character thats not meant to be changed (a real tiger cant change its stripes at will.) while the hairstyle can be changed to anything you want/whenever you want.

One could say that they were more transparent about Viera because of the shapes of their head, but uh....modders messing with metadata has proven that viera heads are extremely similar to every other head minus their ears. Hrothgars have a bit of a different story, but once again, modders have proved the Dev team wrong...again...

If your second statement is true, its kind of scummy for them to show off something that was never intended to be attainable anyway, because I'll once again go back to the statement of being able to create a lot of unique characters out of these two races and players more often than not (Hroth's more due to their customization being even more limited than Viera's) running into their twins in game.

Yea, I remember the first reveal and how excited I was for them, but I do remember them definitely looking unfinished and that they had a few months to get them ready for the players to mess around with

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Originally Posted by Akimori

snip

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I BELIEVE they may have intended for Hairstyles to be customizable at the start; but I remember that some people were picking apart their promotional image and how one of the hairstyles clipped with the ear, and compaining how it meant the Hroths were rushed and whatnot (which... I mean... not inaccurate, we know they were rushed, they were literally only finished to show on FanFest like, a day or a week before, I forget).

I wouldn't be surprised if, pressed for time, the dev team decided hairstyles would be tied to faces and that would stop complaints about clipping, but it's still a baffling style decision.

...which wouldn't be the first baffling design decision, considering how I've mentioned Viera ears are different than FFXII/FFTA Viera ears in a way that makes hats MORE DIFFICULT to model, which means the dev team essentially shot themselves on the foot for no good reason.

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Originally Posted by WhiteArchmage

I wouldn't be surprised if, pressed for time, the dev team decided hairstyles would be tied to faces and that would stop complaints about clipping, but it's still a baffling style decision.

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It's not impossible, but I'd be very surprised if they made such a big change that late in development. And only because a few people said it clips? People have complained about clipping for as long as the game's been out and new stuff still clips, I don't think they care that much.

I vaguely remember they did make some alteration to that image later on though? Like they moved the hair a bit so it didn't clip through the ear and changed the teeth or something? Does anyone else remember that or did I make that up. :)

EDIT: nvm, I found the image and they just changed it to be the "correct" head to go with the hair.

Something funny I noticed about one of those 2 unique Hroths that have switched hairstyles in Bozja: since that hairstyle wasn't "made for" that face, poor guy got big openings around the ears, and given the proper angle, you can see inside his mane lol

(my Roe is totally not judging)

https://i.imgur.com/SBVMXpP.png

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Originally Posted by Avidria

I swapped off Viera ages ago, and it's only gotten easier to resist the temptation to switch back. I want to be optimistic, but if they don't get any updates in 6.0, I'll probably just write them off my list for good.

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I am going the same way as you. If they say nothing I think I will live without my beloved Viera. I just refuse to pay full price for 2/3s of the content. I collect hairstyles as well so it is honestly very annoying to not be able to use them and then not have them say anything. It has been 2 years and nothing at all. I have been really enjoying my Au Ra lately, all the hats, veils and hairstyles that are suddenly there to enjoy. I am more and more baffled as to why they released these races to begin with.

Tbh if they aren’t planning on updating these races at all for EW then they should offer a free fantasia as a preorder bonus. People shouldn’t have to pay them extra to race change off of the races they couldn’t be bothered with.

Also it would maybe give some hrothgar players a chance to tweak their hair since, you know. Haven’t fixed that either.

I’m salty today. :p

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Originally Posted by BunniEclair

Tbh if they aren’t planning on updating these races at all for EW then they should offer a free fantasia as a preorder bonus. People shouldn’t have to pay them extra to race change off of the races they couldn’t be bothered with.

Also it would maybe give some hrothgar players a chance to tweak their hair since, you know. Haven’t fixed that either.

I’m salty today. :p

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I was actually surprised that the pre-order bonus didn't come with a fantasia like SB (?) was. I can assume HW as well maybe?

Heavensward included one in the Collector's Edition, but no other expac did (or ARR itself, for that matter). They've never been part of the preorder bonuses.

I'm sure that they mentioned something about Fur patterns being the Hairstyles for the Hort, however even if that memory is true, 5 is not a great number and the kicking in the teeth to make you pay real money to swap between the two hairstyles that are linked to your face is just poor decision making, and show a lack of understanding simple thing players like. which is to create an avatar that they want.

I do miss my Hrot, however, they need to go back and redesign them. All hairstyles should work on all faces, and the option to walk with a straight back is also needed. Why is it that most games that have a beast race always have to make them hunched over.. ??

I understand going back and updating all helms is asking a lot, but JOB gear should fit all races. same as all gear brought off the mogstation.

I want to be optimistic, but really am not holding my breath for the live letter.. if nothing is said, then I'll be staying as a boring Highlander, cause at least then I know I'll be able to wear everything that the game implements from hairstyles to hats.