Shadowbringers RDM Wishlist

So it looks like enhanced manafication reduces its CD to 110s and causes it to increase your magic damage by 5%.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

So it looks like enhanced manafication reduces its CD to 110s and causes it to increase your magic damage by 5%.

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Now we're just waiting, and hoping, on Enhanced Reprise being worth a damn... What a disappointing set of changes...

Just going to leave what I wish Reprise did here, rather than the flat potency + ranged attack it's going to be...

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Originally Posted by Nalien

Reprise could have been a nice way to add something in there though. Make it a DoT. Base Reprise is nothing. Enhanced Reprise (balanced) is a mid-potency DoT. Black/White Reprise (unbalanced gauge) is a high-potency DoT.

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Actually having to intentionally unbalance your gauge for the sake of applying a DoT (or some other skill management, DoT is just the first thing that comes to mind) would be an interesting new way to play with what Red Mage currently has... The mechanic to unbalance your gauge is already there, but it sees 0 usage. It's meant to be a punishment for messing up, like Ninjas Rabbit Medium, but such punishments are meaningless when the possibility of messing up is as close to 0 as one can get...

That apparently has a potency of 300 (not that it means much right now) and a balance gauge cost of 10/10. That is all.

As a BLM main... you have my commiserations, since we're in much the same boat.

That settles it. I'm moving back to Scholar, been waiting on that 100% Crit Adlo skill since 2.0 and that alone is enough to get me excited for the Job, nevermind all the additional stuff on top of that... Red Mage basically got nothing this expansion, what tiny additions we did get are countered out by the gutting of additionals/etc.

Well, it's based on information that has yet to be confirmed/is not final, however if true it is lackluster stuff.

Did Scorch get a potency leak? Just looking at the numbers right now, unless the potency of the melee combo has also been changed...

80/80 nets you 970 in melee combo and 600 in Verholy/flare, totaling at 1,570.

80/80 nets you 8 Reprise, for 300 potency each, totaling at 2,400.

Basically, unless numbers change, Scorch is going to have to deal at least 830? Doesn't factor in the gauge regain from Verholy/flare, but still...

At the very least Reprise is good value for money, but still... It's just such a boring skill... Being a Lv76 version of Scathe by design is really sad...

It's likely Critlo's getting removed with that action they've added. SE's already said they're planning on shield nerfs, and you won't be able to Deploy off of your Fairy anymore either. Don't expect Critlo Cheese to be as strong as it now.

That said Reprise's main role is to solve RDM's mobility issues and let them fit in Manafication better.

https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...8924636726.png

Scorch is just plain jane potency. Don't even try to go back to SCH, unless you're okay with the removal of Energy Drain/Shadowflare. :c

80/80 for full melee combo [2260] over the course of 10.2 equals 221.5 PPS. [237+ with B/W mana]

80/80 reprise spam [2400] over the course of 17.6 seconds equal 136 PPS.

Swiftcast VerAero [310] over the course of 2.5 seconds equals 124.[143.8+ with B/W mana]

Verstone + VerAero [580] over the course of 5 seconds equals 116. [134+ with B/W mana]

So its a small Raw gain over doing swiftcast VerAero, but a huge loss over melee combo. Before these adjustments a friend and I did the math for the Potency per B/W mana equalling out to about 4.5. This value can only go up with scorche. This means that Reprise is in all, a loss everywhere except for:

1) Areas of heavy movement that can't be adjusted to with dualcast stagger/swiftcast or fitting in melee combo.
2) If you would somehow overfill your gauge before a boss disappears or during a mechanic where you can't get in for melee action.

Damage options its a decent skill.

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Originally Posted by Zyneste

Don't even try to go back to SCH, unless you're okay with the removal of Energy Drain/Shadowflare. :c

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It was my main back in 2.0, and even disregarding everything else, Seraph simply looks more appealing than Scorch. Plus I get Summoner off the back of it for Phoenix, too? Unless they've finally split those two off Arcanist.

Honestly, if I want my fix of sword-mage, I'm more incline to play Paladin or Dark Knight... Both have far more appealing swordplay and even more impressive looking magic aspects... That giant crystal sword attack Paladin can summon for example? Far more impressive than Verholy/Scorch, and not some lame reskin like Fleche/Contre Sixte. Purely by virtue of being tanks, both have better party support utility as well, while Red Mage saw what little it had removed rather than expanded upon...

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Originally Posted by Zyneste

Damage options its a decent skill.

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Certainly, I wont deny that. It's just a boring one is all. Once again I just can't help but return to my idea of turning Scatter into a stance... Have Reprise at Lv52, have it turn into Moulinet during Scatter stance, give us something with a bit more bite at Lv76. Something that uses what we currently have differently, or has us managing something new... Not Lv76 Scathe...

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Originally Posted by Nalien

Purely by virtue of being tanks, both have better party support utility as well, while Red Mage saw what little it had removed rather than expanded upon...

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Stahp im already sad. Gun looking sexy for self shields and Aurora alone. ;c

Yep. Boring, but not "bad." :c

I realllllly wanted to see Erase get that shorter 60 sec cd with 400 potency or to see RDM get their own unique skill that melded Black and White magic together, something like an OGCD Magic Damage taken reduced by 5-10% for 8 seconds and a HoT for 12 seconds with a cool down of 60 seconds.

On the plus side I imagine Red Mage will be seeing love in 5.1+, serious Shake it Off/Scholar vibes from 4.0 at this point though.

In terms of potency per mana Reprise is respectable tbh. It's close to hitting as hard as Veraero/Thunder too so it's not really a heavy DPS loss compared to your normal rotation. It actually seems worthwhile to dump 1 or 2 Reprises before Manafication if that ever comes up. It's certainly worth using to align your melee combo with raid buffs. Just not spam-worthy.

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Originally Posted by Zyneste

Stahp im already sad. Gun looking sexy for self shields and Aurora alone. ;c

Yep. Boring, but not "bad." :c

I realllllly wanted to see Erase get that shorter 60 sec cd with 400 potency or to see RDM get their own unique skill that melded Black and White magic together, something like an OGCD Magic Damage taken reduced by 5-10% for 8 seconds and a HoT for 12 seconds with a cool down of 60 seconds.

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It's just a pity that 2 of the 3 casters' new job abilities could be described as "boring but not bad". A lot of the upgrades are functional in nature, but at the same time they're the kind of thing you could achieve through trait/ability consolidation and reworking existing abilities, and not things that merit a level 70-80 skill. I'm still tentative on how SMN will turn out, but it's looking like the trailblazer of the 3 in terms of new abilities.

I really wish they'd played up Red Mages swordplay a bit more. Arguably Engagement and Reprise do just that, but they're both so niche by design that I can't really call them part of Red Mages active rotation.

Engagement specifically I feel needs to be addressed ASAP. I think it needs to do something that rewards you for staying in melee range, rather than checking out with Displacement, rather than the current "I'm being punished by losing 50 potency solely because of this arenas design" utility it currently represents. Honestly I think an auto-attack buff would be interesting, something similar to Sword Oath, a bit late for animation reworks of course, but having Red Mage shoot out a Fleche style sword (still need an updated unique animation for those, too) with each auto-attack would also be a whole lot more visually interesting than what we've currently seen.

For months I've been telling people that RDM is in a scary place like Monk was because it has such a solid and well flowing rotation, so the developers wouldn't know what to do with it, and it seems my fears have come true...

Receiving two abilities that are effectively just "penalties" for not positioning yourself well is a real kick in the nethers, and the remaining skills we get are just plain boring.

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Originally Posted by Jollyy5

and the remaining skills we get are just plain boring.

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Remaining skill, Scorch is it I'd say. Veraero II and Verthunder II are both boring (although one can argue less so that Scatter spam, but I'd also argue the change from Scatter spam to including Veraero and Verthunder as the number of targets decreased was more engaging and we've lost that, Impact is superior even on just two mobs) and technically a nerf. The rate you build gauge in 5.0 off AoE is IMO slower. It's less RNG dependent, which is nice, but it's ultimately slower as a result. The nice change to AoE isn't the addition of an actual AoE rotation, it's the reduction in the cost of Moulinet.

Also, just as a complete aside, I hope they swap Jolt II and Impact... Make Jolt II the AoE (makes sense, II spells tend to be AoEs) and give it the old Scatter animation... Jolt IIs animation is so dull... It's fine now when it's the spell you really don't want to use, but with the loss of Impact Ready it'll be used a whole lot more...

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Originally Posted by Grimoire-M

It's likely Critlo's getting removed with that action they've added. SE's already said they're planning on shield nerfs, and you won't be able to Deploy off of your Fairy anymore either. Don't expect Critlo Cheese to be as strong as it now.

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Just seen an updated tooltip for Adloquium; 300 potency, granted Galvanize shield equal to 125% of HP restored. If critical also applied Catalyze shield equal to HP restored. Wont know for sure for a while, but that "also" makes it sound like you get a 125% of the Crit HP shield, +100% of the Crit HP shield. My guess would be they've balanced this out by making Deployment not work on Catalyze?

Comparing Samurais Guren and Senei (my god that potency) really doesn't help raise my opinion on Displacement and Engagement... Samurai gets a 450 potency increase for single target vs AoE scenarios. Red Mage gets a 50 potency loss by virtue of arena design... This really isn't how shared recast abilities should work... It's kind of hard to believe the same team that worked on every other Job also worked on Red Mage... Were the adjustments for this Job passed off to an intern or something?

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Originally Posted by Jollyy5

For months I've been telling people that RDM is in a scary place like Monk was because it has such a solid and well flowing rotation, so the developers wouldn't know what to do with it, and it seems my fears have come true...

Receiving two abilities that are effectively just "penalties" for not positioning yourself well is a real kick in the nethers, and the remaining skills we get are just plain boring.

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There are ways to evolve the job still. They're not implemented, sure, but it's not nearly as bad as Monk simply because Monk's been around long enough that SE should have done something right by them twice over now.

I personally wouldn't have implemented Reprise or Engagement but I'm glad they exist. Their AoE burst has improved too.

What I would've wanted more is Verwater/blizzard, Chainspell as a cooldown, and another damage oGCD to juggle that helps with their MP problems and mana generation, but everything we got works.

I do find it amusing that in broad terms, everything we got was what we asked for, just not how we wanted it.

Better MP management? Lucid Dreaming's CD got halved, MP got standardized, Mana Shift got axed.
More Mana spenders? Reprise.
More time in melee? Engagement.
Faster melee combos? 10 sec off Manafication.
A "balanced" Verfinisher? Scorch.

Say what you will but at least "more engaging AoE" actually came out more or less how we expected.

I think that's pretty much the issue. They were the right things to focus on but the implementation leaves something to be desired, i.e. they used up the 70-80 toolkit for it, barring the first point, which was more of a "meta" decision impacting all casters.

Particularly in the case of the AOE spells, since they're adding new ones... why not redress the absence of any frost or water spells with them? It's a peculiar decision to simply rehash Aero III (ironically, axed) and Thunder IV. Although it makes thematic sense... it feels like a missed opportunity.

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Originally Posted by Lauront

I think that's pretty much the issue. They were the right things to focus on but the implementation leaves something to be desired, i.e. they used up the 70-80 toolkit for it, barring the first point, which was more of a "meta" decision impacting all casters.

Particularly in the case of the AOE spells, since they're adding new ones... why not redress the absence of any frost or water spells with them? It's a peculiar decision to simply rehash Aero III (ironically, axed) and Thunder IV. Although it makes thematic sense... it feels like a missed opportunity.

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Even worse if the two new AoEs don't proc Verfire/Verstone under Acceleration.

Honestly, why do the devs seem hell-bent on making sure Ninja is the only job with all six elements? It makes sense in the case of WHM and BLM, but you ever notice we share all the same elements with SMN, aside from the addition of Thunder? Right down to the Fire/Unaspected mega-spells...

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Originally Posted by Archwizard

Even worse if the two new AoEs don't proc Verfire/Verstone under Acceleration.

Honestly, why do the devs seem hell-bent on making sure Ninja is the only job with all six elements? It makes sense in the case of WHM and BLM, but you ever notice we share all the same elements with SMN, aside from the addition of Thunder? Right down to the Fire/Unaspected mega-spells...

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I believe the reason for that is because Blizzard and Water are loosely tied to WHM and BLM's respective lore/mechanics as ways to restore MP, which invariably means they'd have to draw out excess aether from the environment in order to manifest them at all. I'd speculate that it actually goes against the core tenets of RDM's practices to use either element because their common properties invariably violate those tenets. We don't really have proof any of that that I can recall though. I'd have to dig through at the Conjurer/Thaumaturge quests again to be sure. That's my semi-educated half-forgotten overly-confident theoretical guess, at least.

As far as lore goes, Cure and healing spells are actually Water-aspected (I believe this was an answer given long ago with regards to why White Mage has no Water spell outside something like Fluid Aura), this is particularly noticeable in something like Asylum which has a very water-y effect to it. As such, I always took Vercure as Red Mages "water" spell. As for ice... My headcannon is that Fleche and Contre Sixte are actually ice blades... Perhaps if the animation for them wasn't reusing assets that could be a bit clearer...

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Originally Posted by Grimoire-M

I believe the reason for that is because Blizzard and Water are loosely tied to WHM and BLM's respective lore/mechanics as ways to restore MP, which invariably means they'd have to draw out excess aether from the environment in order to manifest them at all. I'd speculate that it actually goes against the core tenets of RDM's practices to use either element because their common properties invariably violate those tenets. We don't really have proof any of that that I can recall though. I'd have to dig through at the Conjurer/Thaumaturge quests again to be sure. That's my semi-educated half-forgotten overly-confident theoretical guess, at least.

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I doubt that's the reason, honestly. Bear in mind that Fire magic doesn't lock our MP regen, nor do Aero or Thunder magic manifest as DoTs for us (the CNJ questline makes a point about Wind being the "death by a thousand paper-cuts" element), or Flare and Holy as AoEs.
It should be more sufficient to say in this context that RDM's practices have already adjusted those spells to be more environmentally friendly.

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Originally Posted by Nalien

As far as lore goes, Cure and healing spells are actually Water-aspected (I believe this was an answer given long ago with regards to why White Mage has no Water spell outside something like Fluid Aura), this is particularly noticeable in something like Asylum which has a very water-y effect to it. As such, I always took Vercure as Red Mages "water" spell. As for ice... My headcannon is that Fleche and Contre Sixte are actually ice blades... Perhaps if the animation for them wasn't reusing assets that could be a bit clearer...

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I don't ascribe to that at all. CNJ and ACN use the same green casting effect on their healing spells, while AST and RDM share the same faded blue effect with each other; attributing elements to either one supposes that SCH uses wind magic to heal and AST uses water magic, which are patently false since their powers have no elemental charge within the lore.
Unless, of course, we assume instead that green heals draw from the land and blue heals draw from extraterrestrial sources, but then that just leads to a whole can of worms about the RDM's healing. Sufficed to say, our healing magic is as different from WHM's as our battle magic is from BLM's.
Until Yoshi-P comes out and says Vercure is water magic, I'm choosing to believe it's just a blue heal. Likewise, until he says they're anything but Crystallized Aether, I think consensus is that our sword spells are just Crystallized Aether.

Was thinking about what I would really want if I could design my own skill and why I would want it would be something like:

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https://cdn.discordapp.com/attachmen...ling_spell.png


Ability- Indemnity:Restores target for 200 potency while reducing magic damage taken by 5% and applying a heal over time for 12 seconds. Regen potency 70. Cool down of 60 seconds. [Total healing potency of 480.]

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Wraps the base potency of Erase, into a mild Apoc, with a short but powerful HoT. Lets RDM support on the OGCD without being broken and do it frequently enough. Its one skill with a bunch of built in effects, encompassing small support effects like a RDM should be able to have adding up to a difference.

SEE WHAT YOU DID?!
This topic was hell about "I'm bored when I use scatter" and now we have AoE re-design that stripped us off Impact.
"You brought this up on yourself" as Seiryu would say. ;D

Joke aside, that's my MAIN problem with what I've seen from RDM kit : the loss of Impact (even if Jolt II is buffed, it's still 20 less in potency than VerFire/VerStone). So unless Acceleration gets a buff to milk more VerFire/VerStone, I'm a bit sad.
Scorch is alright. Not interesting
I don't get the point of Engagement, when Displacement is still stronger. Now I'm trying to think, but apart from the Fire phase in O9S, and unlucky tail slams on Shinryu, there's no fight that make it impossible to use Displacement. It's scary on Suzaku, but you can make it.
The ranged Mana spender... 300 pot for 10 mana, I'm not sure I see the point apart from bieng some kind of Scathe ability. If a mechanic forces you to move, you have slide-cast the first spell, dual cast the second, (Swiftcast the third) and you still need to move, yeah maybe.

Anyway, I'm rambling about that but we'll get more info tomorrow so I should probably take it easy.

I'm really happy we did not get any healing ability/support though.

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Originally Posted by Archwizard

I don't ascribe to that at all.

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It was specifically the White Mage line of healing spells, as far as I remember. This dated back to 1.x though, around when White Mage was first introduced (so Astrologian and Scholar weren't even things), so it's entirely possible they abandoned that concept, but I distinctly remember them saying the Cure line of spells were White Mages water spells, "Waters of Life" sort of thing, it's often a trope in fantasy that water is used in recovery (something like Breath of the Wild being the most obvious recent example, wake up in water, the Zora (water) power was healing based, etc.). And again, it's hard to look at the animation for Asylum and not see the water effect.

Whether that carries over to Vercure or not, I can't know for certain, but Red Mage was built from White Mage and Black Mage, not Astrologian or Scholar, and it's Vercure, not Verbenefic or Verphysick. I'd imagine the same lore that applies to Cure applies to Vercure.

I'm probably in the minority here, but I love these RDM changes. RDM plays so damn smooth as is. I feel any drastic changes like timers / Dots to keep track of would ruin the job. The class balance team has a tendency of stacking different mechanics on top of each other, instead of taking one mechanic and expanding on it. It's one of the reasons I hated Heavensward, the addition of Job Gauges made some classes a pain in the ass to play. (and ruined Black Mage for me)

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Originally Posted by Mansion

SEE WHAT YOU DID?!
This topic was hell about "I'm bored when I use scatter" and now we have AoE re-design that stripped us off Impact.
"You brought this up on yourself" as Seiryu would say. ;D

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And boy, am I not sorry about that.

In fairness to your point though, while Potency is all relative (and the buff to Displacement will largely make up for it), the changes to Impact do mean a small drop in our Mana generation. In that light, Scorch is arguably just a compressed series of [Impact - Jolt II]'s rolled together.

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The ranged Mana spender... 300 pot for 10 mana, I'm not sure I see the point apart from bieng some kind of Scathe ability. If a mechanic forces you to move, you have slide-cast the first spell, dual cast the second, (Swiftcast the third) and you still need to move, yeah maybe.

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Admittedly I'm in the same boat. While it is SIGNIFICANTLY better than Scathe (and I believe some were arguing that 8 Reprises may actually be worth more burst than our entire melee combo, Verfinisher Mana returns aside), it feels like it exists to do a job that could have been just as easily filled by making Swiftcast exempt from Dualcast's rules against instant-chaining.
As a melee skill (setting aside it's an instant for just a moment), it won't even proc Dualcast.

It's disappointing that instead of getting new tools to expand on the capabilities of our kit, we got two "last resort" skills that exist to band-aid over cracks in the kit, at least one of which shouldn't exist in the first place.

Still... having a cheap, potent spender that can be used to fine-tune our Mana and keep us from overcapping without setting us back 4-7 GCDs isn't the worst thing. We'll probably find some niche uses to Reprise if nothing else.

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I'm really happy we did not get any healing ability/support though.

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So-so. I'm not dying to step on a healer's toes, but I wouldn't have minded a better group buff than Embolden.

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Originally Posted by Nalien

It was specifically the White Mage line of healing spells, as far as I remember. This dated back to 1.x though,

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There's your problem.

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Originally Posted by Archwizard

So-so. I'm not dying to step on a healer's toes, but I wouldn't have minded a better group buff than Embolden.

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Embolden is much better than most of us have given it credit for. The problem is that it's also the Red Mage steroid.

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Originally Posted by Kabooa

Embolden is much better than most of us have given it credit for. The problem is that it's also the Red Mage steroid.

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Agreed. Clunky as it is, Embolden is still better than a Mantra for instance. Because it's DPS up, and that's the #1 buff that is sought in party buffs (here place eveyrhting that is DMG up, crit / DH / speed up), then Defense Up, then healing up (because most of the time it's healing spells up, so it does not work on what healers tend to use the most, namely Abilities like Indom, Earthly Star etc).

We've had that discussion, but an oGCD weak regen placed on a party member that would give us White Mana would have been ok because it's a DPS gain (or at least not a DPS sacrifice).

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Originally Posted by Archwizard

And boy, am I not sorry about that.

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MONSTER

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Originally Posted by Archwizard

In fairness to your point though, while Potency is all relative (and the buff to Displacement will largely make up for it), the changes to Impact do mean a small drop in our Mana generation. In that light, Scorch is arguably just a compressed series of [Impact - Jolt II]'s rolled together.

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Yeah but as far as we know, we'll use Scorch less often than we currently use (Jolt II and) Impact. That's a potency loss and a Mana gain loss (resulting in a DPS loss too). I'm not sure about the maths here, but even if our finisher now gives us 18-7 Mana (virtually making it faster to get into Melee), I think Impact is a better option (also in proc preparation when you go into melee)

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Originally Posted by Mansion

Yeah but as far as we know, we'll use Scorch less often than we currently use (Jolt II and) Impact. That's a potency loss and a Mana gain loss (resulting in a DPS loss too). I'm not sure about the maths here, but even if our finisher now gives us 18-7 Mana (virtually making it faster to get into Melee), I think Impact is a better option (also in proc preparation when you go into melee)

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Yes and no. Since we still have Jolt II and it retains the same effectiveness (potentially with +10 potency), we can subtract the value of all Jolt II's from any Impacts we may have lost -- making the effective value of each individual Impact a mere 20 potency and 1/1 Mana over the Jolt.

So if we measure the value of Scorch as a result of that -- its Mana gains being 7 "effective" Impacts -- it needs to outweigh the number of Impacts we would theoretically cast leading up to the melee combo, or else we call it a loss.
Bear in mind that in a proper rotation of alternating Impacts and Jolts with longcasts, assuming zero procs of Verstone/Verfire so as to maximize the number of Jolts you would use, we're talking about 27 GCDs (including 7 Jolt IIs and 13 longcasts) to reach 7 Impacts -- by which point you've generated 126/115 Mana, so we can safely say it does not require that many casts in order to reach the melee combo (which assuming worst case conditions requires only 20 GCDs, or 5 Impacts).
My math may be a little off since I'm doing it in my head. Feel free to double-check, but should be in the right ballpark.
And again, that's assuming zero procs pushing back Impacts -- if we factor in the average proc rates, we get me doing math at 4am and giving up to go to bed.

Point is, Scorch's net value is still a gain overall, just not as much as it looks like at face value.
(Also, doesn't our Verfinisher give 21 Mana and a proc? Which combined with Scorch to be 37/7 Mana? Or did I miss a Verfinisher nerf in the demo? I know he used it at 100/100 so it wouldn't have given a proc...)

Having finally confirmed the changes...

Three out of five advancements as traits devoted to raising potencies or lowering CDs?
Any of which could have been done baseline, as seen with Jolt II or LD?
One of which is devoted to two abilities we just received?

No adjustments to our survivability, despite SMN gaining an absorb to meet BLM, and our own presence in melee combat?
Removing all CC despite implying the increased value of CC in Shadowbringers, and extending Repose to all healers?
Making multiple adjustments to the BLM and SMN kits to address awkward recast timers or burst windows, but then making the only change to our Mana gain rate a small reduction to a CD that we'll probably keep lined up with Embolden?

Really.

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Originally Posted by Grimoire-M

Osmose: 60s CD Ability - Deals Unaspected Damage over Time with a potency of 50. Duration 21s. (Total 350 Potency).
Additional Effect: Gain 3 Black/White Mana over time. Duration: 15s. (Total 15 Black/White Mana)
Additional Effect: Restores 25% of Missing Mana.

Small amount of B/W Mana Generation that is slow enough not to conflict with setting up the melee combo. Single Target DoT. Desperately needed MP restoration to enable Raising and Mana Shifting.

Verwater - 4.5s Cast GCD - Deals water damage with a potency of 350. Cost: MP (same as Veraero), 11 Black Mana
Additional Effect: Generates 8 White Mana
- Only usable when Black Mana is above 40

Verblizzard - 4.5s Cast GCD - Deals ice damage with a potency of 350. Cost: MP (same as Veraero), 11 White Mana
Additional Effect: Generates 8 Black Mana
- Only usable when White Mana is above 40

Mana. Spenders. Numbers are rough but it's meant to be worth using to keep you in Manafication range. Added at the same time.


Trait: Improved Manafication - Manafication increases the damage of your next three Weaponskills by 30% and has its cooldown reduced to 90s.

Further facilitating waiting for Manafication. Not as clear whether the cooldown reduction is needed or not.

Chainspell: 180s Ability - Your next 6 spells have no cast time, have 1.5s recast times, and deal 30% less damage.

Minor DPS boost. Major Mana and Mobility boost, enables a super fast opener.



Enhanced Scatter: Trait - Scatter deals Unaspected Damage with a potency of 150 while under the effect of Enhanced Scatter.

This replaces Displacement at 40. Displacement replaces Tether at 15 (Tether is benched in the Role Action list pending an actual reason to bring it in Raids)

Enhanced Moulinet: Trait - Enchanted Moulinet now grants Enhanced Scatter.

More AoE Burst, sorta. It lets you sustain decent AoE longer at least.

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I can't believe they only added Scorth between all those awesome suggestions. They were really fitting the kit.

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Originally Posted by Archwizard

snap

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Ooh yeah I see, thanks your explaining it better :) I did make a mistake on the finisher I typed based on VerThunder/Aero sorryz!
So I guess it's a potency equivalent/increase... but it's just "dumbed down" then.

Seeing the kit, yeah the AoE rotation is alright (Moulinet requiring 20 mana is welcome), although I won't say that doing 1-2/3-2 is more challenging than 1-1/1-1 in a 4 mobs+ situation. Now I see almost all jobs got AoE additions, I think it might mean something...
Contre de Sixte CD reduced does add up in the damage output. So with your breakdown, 5% on manafication and this, I guess we can say RDM pDPS is buffed... But I can bet it just does not compare with SMN or BLM (which changes are VERY god in my opinion).
Engagement is just for a handful of niche situations where you can't use displacement, there really was no need to add this. It should at least have an added effet for the lower potency.

Compared to all the jobs, I think RDM in 5.0 is just bad (WHM is worse though). Raising won't make it support, and it's pDPS won't give it a spot in the "high DPS caster" spot.

@Archwizard, is it really surprising though? A good portion of Stormblood Red Mage had been untouched with no changes while all other jobs received multiple and despite it being really weak they though it was fine as it was.
I think it will be fine for 5.0 but we shall see how far behind we are left i guess? I really hope the changes to impact/scatter is good, the aoe and Scorth.

Healers i think are in worst shape for SB which kind of rather sucks as they were supposed to have perfected them hence no new heals.

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Originally Posted by Mansion

Seeing the kit, yeah the AoE rotation is alright (Moulinet requiring 20 mana is welcome), although I won't say that doing 1-2/3-2 is more challenging than 1-1/1-1 in a 4 mobs+ situation.

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My biggest problem with the new AoE rotation is that it is the ideal rotation even in a 2 mob situation. Veraero II/Verthunder II is a 10 potency loss on Jolt II (120*2 vs 250) but a 1 Mana gain. Impact? That's much stronger than Veraero/Verthunder (they're 310 potency? Impact is 220, so 440 on 2 mobs) and a 5 Mana loss. This actually takes away from Red Mages AoE rotation IMO, since I'd say it was more interesting to weave in the single target spells based on how many enemies remained. That required some level of attention, and also helped prep you before bosses, since you could start getting Verstone and Verfire Ready procs. Now it's just the AoE rotation until there is a single mob left...

To top it all off, you build Mana slower with the new AoE spells than we do with Scatter currently. The new spells build consistently, since there is no RNG, but a single Scatter proc and Scatter spam has you building Mana faster. The only reason this perhaps isn't a major issue is that Moulinet saw its cost reduced, but again... In 2 mob situations the AoE rotation is ideal, and 2~3 mob situations actually occur in real content every now and then, boss fights occasionally have a couple of extra mobs to deal with, and now we're stuck using our full AoE rotation on them for maximum damage, all while building Mana slower than we would with Scatter spam or weaving the single target spells in...

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Originally Posted by Mansion

Compared to all the jobs, I think RDM in 5.0 is just bad (WHM is worse though). Raising won't make it support, and it's pDPS won't give it a spot in the "high DPS caster" spot.

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I'm not hugely pleased with the BLM stuff, either. It's QoL stuff that need not have taken up 70-80 slots, and I find the new spells dull and visually uninspired. So that's both RDM and BLM that I'm not particularly looking forward to. I'm going to give SMN a whirl, though, probably reserving BLM for when I want to switch things around a bit. Maybe even SAM, NIN and DRG, who knows. ¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Aside from the healers (I'll wait to see the new content to form an opinion on those), there's a few more jobs which appear to have suffered from a lack of any inspiration on SE's part, but aside from RDM, how many can boast an ability which is a downgrade (as opposed to moving damage away from Displacement) as a new ability?

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Originally Posted by Lauront

Aside from the healers (I'll wait to see the new content to form an opinion on those), there's a few more jobs which appear to have suffered from a lack of any inspiration on SE's part, but aside from RDM, how many can boast an ability which is a downgrade (as opposed to moving damage away from Displacement) as a new ability?

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While not a direct downgrade, Astrologians Combust III is somewhat of a big question mark, though one assumes that's a result of the media build being incomplete. Displacement and Engagement seem set up that way specifically, based on what we've heard from Yoshida.

It's certainly deliberate, but I don't think it's a particularly great decision, and it's something they could have more easily achieved by just taking damage out of Displacement altogether and moving it elsewhere. At least that way you don't end up with a trait buffing Displacement AND a new ability that is set up to be inferior to it, as an alternative. It seems to me they were in a rush to add the abilities, because I doubt they really lacked any better ideas than this.

As for the AST thing, no doubt an error. :p

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Originally Posted by Maero

@Archwizard, is it really surprising though? A good portion of Stormblood Red Mage had been untouched with no changes while all other jobs received multiple and despite it being really weak they though it was fine as it was.

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Sure, but that's because A) the job was new so drastic changes had mostly been ironed out before the expansion was released and B) having us be weaker was an intentional balance to our ability to rapid-fire Verraises compared to BLM's dearth of utility.

"The job is new," however, should also mean taking the next expansion to consider filling in gaps in the kit that were revealed during its premiere.

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Originally Posted by Nalien

My biggest problem with the new AoE rotation is that it is the ideal rotation even in a 2 mob situation.

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Ignoring for a moment that the mana generation versus potency gain you were just explaining makes it not so clear cut, and that building Mana faster with E.Scatter was an offset to the since-reduced cost of Moulinet:

That's bad... how, exactly? As long as it's not "ideal" in single-target over single-target abilities, why does it matter if it starts to be a gain at the equally rare 2 target cleave instead of at 3?