Please Reconsider MSQ Changes

After looking at this thread again, all I can say is, I wish new folks luck! There are far more people who don't enjoy being forced to watch than those that do. When you don't give people an option, they will just not do the dungeon. Especially if it's not worth their time.

Straight in again as tank today. The roulette hasn’t fallen to pieces yet.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Iscah

Straight in again as tank today. The roulette hasn’t fallen to pieces yet.

---

Nobody was paticularly concerned about the tank queue. I am interested to see where the DPS queue is in a week, though.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Tridus

Nobody was paticularly concerned about the tank queue. I am interested to see where the DPS queue is in a week, though.

---

True, but that’s an issue in every dungeon to some degree. A DPS-only player is going to be used to long queues at this stage of the game.

I’m not a really skilled tank, so this roulette means I can be helpful in a not-too-high-stress tanking role.

I used to queue it as a healer for basically the same exact purpose, lol. "Eh, this one's pretty hard to screw up."

I haven't run this again yet, and likely never will, simply because I have so little time to play as it is. But even if I did, I'd worry about tabbing out and forgetting to come back when the cutscenes are over.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Aylis

snip

---

You're thinking within the current limits of how this game works. They can give npcs the same AI as a squadron, which means they won't go running off after each wave of enemies. In fact, there is at least one late game instanced mission where you have npcs following your movements and not their own. So, again, these systems are in place. It's all a matter of bringing them into the MSQ.

As for vets not getting a bonus, again - you're thinking within our current limits. The first solo run and the first roulette run can be counted as separate "new player" runs. The new player does them solo, gets MSQ Roulette unlocked, then for their first Roulette run the bonus activates. So, once again, it's a win win situation here. Everyone is happy. Your suggestion would be fine too, but it may be too drastic a change to make Ultima into its own trial. I only say that because they'll have to rip that and the fights afterward out of the dungeon, which could involve more work.

Actually I think many people are running the new content to where all old queue times are affected. And this thing happens every patch.

The real question is the queue times come a month from now, but even after that everyone will be in Eurika.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Enla

It's only 400 poetics if there's a newbie, otherwise it's a flat 200 which can be gained /much/ quicker by running several other instances that also will provide more XP.

---

No, MSQ roulette gives 200 and Praetorium gives 200.
If you run Meridianum, it's 200+120, but Meridianum is much quicker to complete since there are way less cutscenes.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Krotoan

in my head you just repeated yourself:
People don't want quick xp and tomes.. they want xp and tomes at a fast enough rate that it's worth their time..
... so.. quick xp and tomes.

---

Not really. You see people complaining about Praetorium taking 50 min to complete, and that it's "slow" without actually looking at how much it gives. When it comes to tome+Xp/time ratio, this is actually a good option.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by SicariusSeven

After looking at this thread again, all I can say is, I wish new folks luck! There are far more people who don't enjoy being forced to watch than those that do. When you don't give people an option, they will just not do the dungeon. Especially if it's not worth their time.

---

Once again its not about the older players wanting fast xp.Its about the new players.
Stop crying about it.If you dont want to run it then dont.Nobody here is forcing you to.

As an old player with (almost) all and everything done, I found that roulette still a good source for poetics when I need them for any reason. Adding a little bunch of the new currency may be the icing on the cake.

In my opinion, its not as torturous as everyone makes it out to be. Sure it takes more time than most are used to, but I've had a blast talking to the party during cutscenes, its nice being able to talk to them, more than sry, thx, gg, etc. It was a welcome change of pace.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by boomsterloy2

In my opinion, its not as torturous as everyone makes it out to be. Sure it takes more time than most are used to, but I've had a blast talking to the party during cutscenes, its nice being able to talk to them, more than sry, thx, gg, etc. It was a welcome change of pace.

---

This is what I noticed as well when I ran MSQ Rou on launch day this week. The exp was pretty decent if you're still in the process of leveling and honestly the dungeon is still really easy to do and the cutscenes just give you time to rest a bit between pulls. It's basically Prae and chill. lol

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Iscah

True, but that’s an issue in every dungeon to some degree. A DPS-only player is going to be used to long queues at this stage of the game.

I’m not a really skilled tank, so this roulette means I can be helpful in a not-too-high-stress tanking role.

---

Neither Leveling, Alliance raid or Expert takes longer than 10-15 min (often less) as a DPS at any level. However MSQ have the past 4 months (maybe more) always been 30+ minutes as DPS. It hasnt improved since 4.2 so im not running it ever again.

Edit: This is on Chaos DC and during EU primetime

What makes this silly though is that your forced to watch Cutscenes WHEN NOONE IS NEW TO THIS.

Realistically forcing people to watch cutscenes is the most stupid and lazy decision made for this. Whats worse is that its not actually that hard to rework this to eliminate the tedium.

1) Just made most of castrum an instance and change livia into a trial fight. Castrum easily fixed.
2) Make most of praetorium an instance and just make the ultima fight also a trial. Praetorium fixed.

The real issue here is that people arent gonna run this in the long term and it will end up in the same state as the alliance raids were prior to the introduction of the alliance raid finder. Its just sheer lazy patching to do so and introduces more problems than it solves.

Eh, I'm just not on the bandwagon to think this is the doomsday times. It sucks they're forced but prior to this week this was the first time 2018 I've ran MSQ Rou because there's no tomes or rewards it offers that I need anymore. I ran it probably less than 5 times during the entirety of 2017.

I still think they should have used some resources to turn both into a solo instance with NPCs.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Raiya

What makes this silly though is that your forced to watch Cutscenes WHEN NOONE IS NEW TO THIS.

---

Do you honestly believe this? There are no new players joining this game everyday?

Wow.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Coratanni

Do you honestly believe this? There are no new players joining this game everyday?

Wow.

---

Pretty sure they meant when there is no bonus for someone being new to the duty, thus nobody new to it in that run.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Avatre

Pretty sure they meant when there is no bonus for someone being new to the duty, thus nobody new to it in that run.

---

The way they say it the meaning can be either way.

In any event if they don't like to wait they are free to run any of the other Roulettes. I will continue running it every day that I have time. It is a non-stress duty for leveling my tanking classes. And the Poetics are nice for all of my relics I am working on.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Raiya

What makes this silly though is that your forced to watch Cutscenes WHEN NOONE IS NEW TO THIS.

---

I think they did this to prevent speculative queuing. For instance, you could queue for Main Story Roulette, and if anyone had a bonus (and thus cutscenes were unskippable), you'd immediately leave and take the penalty. I doubt this would be a super popular thing to do, were it possible, but it's smarty not to give people any incentive whatsoever to leave. If you queue, you know what you're getting. (Though with Praetorium being so much longer I could see people leaving unless they get Castrum, too.)

I'm so glad that I got everything to 70 before this patch cause I'm not touching that again. >: I do still have some alts that will need it though... Maybe I'll buy a story skip when I hit that part, cause I love doing the story on characters, but I can't imagine sitting in those both for like an hour and some change.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Anarnee

I'm so glad that I got everything to 70 before this patch cause I'm not touching that again. >: I do still have some alts that will need it though... Maybe I'll buy a story skip when I hit that part, cause I love doing the story on characters, but I can't imagine sitting in those both for like an hour and some change.

---

And thus SE's hidden agenda comes to light! Egads!

... I wish I could say I was only kidding, but there's a small, cynical voice in my head whispering that skip potion purchases were definitely factored into the plan.

But surely if you enjoy the story overall, a story skip would jump over way more than you’d want just for the sake of dodging these dungeons? Doesn’t it take you right over to Lv60 and miss all of Heavensward? Give it a go first, at least!

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Iscah

But surely if you enjoy the story overall, a story skip would jump over way more than you’d want just for the sake of dodging these dungeons? Doesn’t it take you right over to Lv60 and miss all of Heavensward? Give it a go first, at least!

---

I have 16 characters at the moment that I have put a good amount of work into (More than that but the others were just created for fun and I don't do much on them), Three caught up to the current MSQ, Two at the start of SB, three in HW, one just past praetorium and in the story after, and the last seven are still before Prae. I know what it takes to get characters leveled and through the msq, that hour plus that I will be wasting in there can be used for the VERY LONG string of quests that it takes to get into HW. The story line of ARR after Prae is already very long. That is over 7 hours potentially added to a very long quest grind as it is for me.


Luckily, I'm pretty sure the skip potion puts me at the start of HW. Though it is a shame because I like the story leading up to it as well.

I certainly don't -need- to work on them I guess, but I like leveling characters and experiencing things again. Specially after big patches, it's a good refresher on story that I've not gotten to do in years/months.

Don't need to give it a go to know how much of a waste of time it is, I've been playing since 2013.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Anarnee

I have 16 characters at the moment that I have put a good amount of work into Three caught up to the current MSQ, Two at the start of SB, three in HW, one just past praetorium and in the story after, and the last seven are still before Prae. I know what it takes to get characters leveled and through the msq, that hour plus that I will be wasting in there can be used for the VERY LONG string of quests that it takes to get into HW. The story line of ARR after Prae is already very long. That is over 7 hours potentially added to a very long quest grind as it is for me.

---

Seriously if the cutscenes are what's making you buy a skip potion, rather than the fact that you were going to be doing the many hour grind between ARR and HW, as well as HW to get to SB... You have a very strange sense of time and time efficiency. And this is from someone who also has 5 characters that are at SB or finished with the story.

So from what I understand since I have all 70s. I would only get 200 poetics or 400 if a new player is in the duty.

I will not queue for this roulette anymore it needs to reward way more poetics and something else. It could be creation, the new tomestome or cracked crystals but as it stands I see no reason in me running this roulette ever again. If they even add more incentives after I get what I need.. It will be the same exact situation won't have a reason to run this.

Rip the free shroud soil in 13-15 minutes once a day.

the poetics are ok, but it needs to be at least double the xp if not flat out a half a lvl. Also needs to have new tomes for people queuing at 70 to incentivize "help" from lvl capped players.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Gumbercules

the poetics are ok, but it needs to be at least double the xp if not flat out a half a lvl. Also needs to have new tomes for people queuing at 70 to incentivize "help" from lvl capped players.

---

Praetorium was literally half a level for me at level 62 :3 (not counting mob experience)

I just tried the MSQ roulette and we spent

47 min and 25 seconds in the roulette of that time, 31 min and 5 seconds was spent in cut scene. The experience (3M) was not worth the amount of time it took to complete the dungeon. I will not queue for that roulette again.

Square Enix should make the MSQ dungeons single player experiences and not try to inflict this experience on a group.

Fem

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by seraf

This is what I noticed as well when I ran MSQ Rou on launch day this week. The exp was pretty decent if you're still in the process of leveling and honestly the dungeon is still really easy to do and the cutscenes just give you time torest a bit between pulls. It's basically Prae and chill. lol

---

Some people care about efficiency because they have other things to do. For those people, they will not touch the MSQ roulette. You have to understand having most jobs at max level or even all of them is really common sight this point, so how do you give intensives for those people leveling their last final few jobs? All they are going to do is beastribe for 10 mins a day or whatever then go about doing other things since to people like that, well.. there is a reason they are on their last few jobs right? (meaning it is very unlikely those people care about rush leveling those final jobs. They will just do something time efficient day to day for some exp so they can spend most of their time on what is important to them)

If you want experienced people to queue up for things to push down queue times, you need to make it WORTH DOING. If you don't, queue times will just get longer and longer, making it harder for new players to clear it. What happened to "just run unsync with 1 or 2 level 70 friends and enjoy the story that way? Why did SE have to ruin the roulettle?

Saying it "doesn't matter" is simply not living in the real world.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jxnibbles

So from what I understand since I have all 70s. I would only get 200 poetics or 400 if a new player is in the duty.

---

Do people actually check the rewards ?
MSQ roulette gives 200.
Meridianum gives 120.
Praetorium gives 200.

New player bonus is on top of those.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Squintina

Praetorium was literally half a level for me at level 62 :3 (not counting mob experience)

---

ahh kk i keep getting CM XD

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vstarstruck

Some people care about efficiency because they have other things to do. For those people, they will not touch the MSQ roulette.

---

Yeah, and those people were ruining the experience for the new people trying to see the story.

A lot of people posting in this thread are saying how it's not worth your time anymore. If you HAD to skip all the cutscenes before , you were part of the problem that SE is trying to fix. Now with cross server queuing, they're probably seeing if only the people who are willing to put in the extra time will be enough.

If not the system will probably revert, especially if new people start complaining about the MSQ queue. I don't think i've seen that yet, but it's super early to be judging that metric.

There are plenty of other roulettes available for the XP-per-minute crew.

I cannot spend an hour in a single roulette. As someone with limited hours of play a night, some days that I cannot play at all, this really kills my ability to get poetics for old content [ anima, secondary class gear, so on ] any faster than the current tier tomestones- which I have to spend my limited time getting ALSO.

As someone mentioned barely 15 minutes of a Praetorium is actually spent physically playing the game. Being made to watch non-interactive scenes I've already seen and can go readily watch in the inn at my own leisure whenever I want seems like a large waste of my small bit of time. So there's one less tank/healer that is going to be able to pull new people through MSQ.

Just my perspective.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reynhart

Do people actually check the rewards ?
MSQ roulette gives 200.
Meridianum gives 120.
Praetorium gives 200.

New player bonus is on top of those.

---

So do Roulette for Prae for 400 poets in about 47-1hr.. (More poets if new players)

Or do Arf for 150 poets in 15-17 minutes.. (More poets if new players)

If you have all your jobs maxed then the msq roulete is objectively worse for poetics. This does not include wait times.

My point still stands the roulette is pretty useless, it has no value for level 70 players which are expected to queue into this to help newer players.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jxnibbles

My point still stands the roulette is pretty useless, it has no value for level 70 players which are expected to queue into this to help newer players.

---

Perhaps, then, it's simply not going to be Lv70 players doing the majority of 'helping' here. It'll be people who do still have jobs to level from 50 to 70. They help the newcomers through, the ex-newcomers join the ranks of helpers (if they want to), and it just continues like that for so long as there are new players (or alt characters) working through the MSQ.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Krotoan

Yeah, and those people were ruining the experience for the new people trying to see the story.

---

No they where not, and I guess having no queue or 30 minute queue is better then 5 Minutes. From my experiences (someone that tries to speak up when there is any kind of drama) tends to get things sorted, because of this, I feel people overblow the situation because they do not know how to communicate, or kicking people that are causing trouble (pulling way too fast, being rude at elevators, etc) I seen "toxicity" on the reverse end too, a friend or two trying to hold the run hostage (a lot of times this is done with a friend being max level) where they could of just unsync it and not cause problems for 6 other people.

With your tone, I wouldn't be shocked if you where part of that group. I did not cause problems for people, do not dare say such things to me. This is you making a post where your sig quote fits you well, is that why you do not understand the saying? Maybe you run into people telling you a lot for a reason.

With your last line I addressed that, I did not know we where talking about the individual looking for the best exp. We were talking about making the roulette appealing to experienced players so new players were not waiting a long time in queue.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by CheeseHound

I cannot spend an hour in a single roulette. As someone with limited hours of play a night, some days that I cannot play at all, this really kills my ability to get poetics for old content ....

....whenever I want seems like a large waste of my small bit of time. So there's one less tank/healer that is going to be able to pull new people through MSQ.

Just my perspective.

---

I am sure that is insanely common

Do you watch a movie, the same movie 1-3 times a day for a month? 2 months? even a movie you love a lot, doing that will make you hate at some point, the breaking point of that is different from person to person but it does not change a breaking point does exist. Queue times will skyrocket after a point when people are done "testing it" because it is simply boring to do the same thing over and over and over again , reading the same text/story cuz you know what happens.

You cannot blame people for skipping the CS.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Iscah

Perhaps, then, it's simply not going to be Lv70 players doing the majority of 'helping' here. It'll be people who do still have jobs to level from 50 to 70. They help the newcomers through, the ex-newcomers join the ranks of helpers (if they want to), and it just continues like that for so long as there are new players (or alt characters) working through the MSQ.

---

used to, not anymore, very unlikely.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reynhart

Do people actually check the rewards ?
MSQ roulette gives 200.
Meridianum gives 120.
Praetorium gives 200.

New player bonus is on top of those.

---

implying max level players care about poetics in the first place, and if they do they run ARF or something.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jxnibbles

Or do Arf for 150 poets in 15-17 minutes.. (More poets if new players)

---

You realize you don't have access to ARF before level 60, right ?

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Jxnibbles

My point still stands the roulette is pretty useless, it has no value for level 70 players which are expected to queue into this to help newer players.

---

"Having no value for level 70" is way different than "being useless". Lots of "old" players still level new jobs, especially if they want to test the most recent ones that, coincidentally, start at level 50, giving you acces to this roulette right away, or simply because they're bored of their old main job.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vstarstruck

implying max level players care about poetics in the first place, and if they do they run ARF or something.

---

Yes, as a max level tank and DRG, I actually cared about poetics when leveling my fresh RDM, and gearing it with the best level 50 and level 60 gear, removing any concern of having to update my gear until level 70. And now, I'll do the same with my MNK, my SAM, and any job that's between level 50 and level 60 when I want to try something new.

As icing on the cake, with the increased poetics, I'll have enough to buy anyting I need for an anima weapon if I want this special skin, while leveling a job.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Vstarstruck

No they where not, and I guess having no queue or 30 minute queue is better then 5 Minutes. From my experiences (someone that tries to speak up when there is any kind of drama) tends to get things sorted, because of this, I feel people overblow the situation because they do not know how to communicate, or kicking people that are causing trouble (pulling way too fast, being rude at elevators, etc) I seen "toxicity" on the reverse end too, a friend or two trying to hold the run hostage (a lot of times this is done with a friend being max level) where they could of just unsync it and not cause problems for 6 other people.
With your tone, I wouldn't be shocked if you where part of that group. I did not cause problems for people, do not dare say such things to me. This is you making a post where your sig quote fits you well, is that why you do not understand the saying? Maybe you run into people telling you a lot for a reason.

With your last line I addressed that, I did not know we where talking about the individual looking for the best exp. We were talking about making the roulette appealing to experienced players so new players were not waiting a long time in queue.

---

Where =/= WERE.
Where = a question or a statement of place.
Were= to formerly be.

.... Deny it all you like , besides weren't you done on the 6th? That was the last thing you posted in your own quitting thread about how you were going to quit since this game was soooo horrible and the devs are so greedy and oh they should make it like this game or that game , this is alpha-test level, they should be ashamed and this game is stuck in 2000 standards... .. Why does this matter to someone leaving the game?




Or you're NOT quitting and just posting things to whine. You do not speak up for drama, you create drama.

TONE?? what was offensive about my original post? Now I'm going to state things in a harsher manner because YES. I. DARE. I will state things how I see them and if I find I'm wrong I'll apologize, but everything that has been done to this roulette supports my observation. You keep making assumptions about my character and habits. I've run all these quests for people and NEVER skipped the CS unless someone else did first. If someone politely asked for the zerg to wait, I waited. Do NOT make judgements about my character without reason. I spend HOURS with learning parties doing encounters I know I can farm with others because it SUCKS trying to find another person to fill and hey, I'm enjoying playing the game and I like the fact I'm helping out.


The people who rushed others through it WERE the ones who were there for quick XP. I never said it was WRONG, or that they should BE ASHAMED. Just that the people who wanted a quick blob of xp and tomes are NOT the people that SE wants running this particular MSQ stuff. They want the people doing the quest to experience the cutscenes at a decent pace and be able to enjoy the story. Being part of a PROBLEM doesn't necessarily mean you're a bad person or evil or even impatient. Wanting quick xp is fine. Wanting quick tomes is fine. This roulette is just NOT for that anymore and if you ask for them to take it back to that or whine that it's not as efficient as it used to be you're obviously the kind of person who doesn't care about the experience of the newer players running alongside you and just cares about your xp per minute which is TOTALLY FINE, I may not agree with that philosophy but it doesn't make it WRONG. The changes made make it quite obvious that if the roulette doesn't meet your standards for leveling then this should no longer be a part of your roulette rotation. It appeals to those who would like to help, have some time and are ok with earning a decent amount of xp and poetic tomes (which are still useful post 70).

DON'T queue if it's too low. If it gets slow enough SE will change things. They can measure these things and if newer players start complaining then things will be changed. It is far to soon to say this has killed or improved the MSQ queue.

Quote:

---

Originally Posted by Reynhart

You realize you don't have access to ARF before level 60, right ?

"-Snipped-".

---

I was comparing Arf poetic farming to Msq and I was clearly talking about a level 70 player.

Again you are missing the point if the 70 player switches to a new job to level then the player is clearly leveling which means that job is not level 70..

Stop trying to twist what I say. if the player that is queuing into the roulette is on a level 70 job then the roulette is pretty useless. Also in both my post I mentioned players with max levels have no use for this roulette so please why are you talking about level 60s when I mentioned 70s only??