Artifact Armors!

Printable View

Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page

09-23-2011, 05:46 AM
AceofRains

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiote

He says it transforms, he does not say it folds.

._. are we going to argue semantics now?
09-23-2011, 05:47 AM
Gidonoidon_Sur

More importantly. Is it:

Arcbard?
Barcher?
09-23-2011, 05:48 AM
Isaaru

Quote:

Originally Posted by AceofRains

._. are we going to argue semantics now?

classic lodestone forums
09-23-2011, 05:48 AM
ChronicalSin

Quote:

Originally Posted by AceofRains

._. are we going to argue semantics now?

Transformers fold some of their stuff, so maybe they're not transformers? :o
OH MY GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOD!
09-23-2011, 05:52 AM
Shift

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiote

He says it transforms, he does not say it folds.

Folding is a form of transformation. Look at the bow, its pretty obvious that the black piece connecting the upper harp piece to the lower bow is a hinge that swings back.

I'm curious about the bowstring. Does it integrate as harp strings or will it hang loose and be a Lalafell tripping hazard :P

Over-analyzing I know, but its fun
09-23-2011, 05:52 AM
Kiote

Quote:

Originally Posted by AceofRains

._. are we going to argue semantics now?

Wasn't trying to argue, just pointing out that he could have been eluding to a separation which would support your theory. There isn't much point in the bow folding if the harp, as seen in the picture, is already in a playable state.
09-23-2011, 05:58 AM
AceofRains

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiote

Wasn't trying to argue, just pointing out that he could have been eluding to a separation which would support your theory. There isn't much point in the bow folding if the harp, as seen in the picture, is already in a playable state.

Sorry I knew you were finding a supporting but I was confused a little. xD
Either way the bow ends up, I'm looking forward to it.
I dont think theres much evidence to speculate it to be a fold bow or pull apart.
So now we play the waiting game!
09-23-2011, 06:06 AM
Ixador

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bayohne

The weapons each job is wielding are things we are planning to implement into the game.

Hello Scythelance.

....j/k :p
09-23-2011, 06:14 AM
gahoo

I think there are two things going on here.

First, a lot of the "problems" (term used loosely) are, IMO, tied to retaining the class terminology post armory overhaul. "Gladiator", as a fancy translation of "sword user", was OK when the original classes and armory was the end of the discussion, but it doesn't really fit with the new system, where the original class decision is a more generic, solo-friendly, role. The "gladiator" is able to solo by virtue of absorbing a lot of damage (i.e. tank) while putting out decent damage vs. the more balanced attack/defense of the "pugilist" or the more nuke heavy but defense light "thaumaturge". Had the classes gotten renamed we wouldn't be in the mess we're in with Barchers (or Gladins or Punks or whatnot).

If we had:
Close Damage dealer -> Monk
Standard Damage dealer -> WAR
Mid-ranged Damage dealer -> DRG
Long-range Damage dealer -> BLM
Support -> Bard
Healer -> WHM
Tank -> PLD

nobody would blink at the "transition" to the new titles and roles. The problem is we have the defined original titles with what should be more generic roles - which is a disconnect.

I think Yoshida has done a terrific job turning FFXIV around, but the decision to retain the armoury system, and the 1:1 ratio of weapon to class and then the 1:1 ration of class to job, is inflexible, which is precisely what the original concept of the system was trying to avoid.

This problem of perception could also be dealt with by not having the 1:1 class:job ratio. But if the ratio persists, the original class names should have been made generic.

The second issue is seen easily from the above list I think - that Archer was not originally a support job - meaning people who selected archers did not want to play that role. If the party role for the archer is support, you've "forced" (as much as it can be forced, which it really isn't) archers to play a role they didn't want to play. This argument could also be made for some of the other classes, but it is more pronounced with an Archer/Bard line than a Gladiator/Paladin line.

Ideally, given where the game is and where the development is, what I would like to see is a full move away from 1:1 class:job ratio. That would probably be the least disruptive. Hit level 30 and you can unlock whatever extra "party-focused" job you want.

Even if some (or even many) of the skills of the job have prerequisites from a particular class, so be it. Assume that 50% of the Bard skills require some prerequisite from Archer alone - that's ok. That might essentially require some playing of archer to unlock all of the bard skills, but it doesn't put them on the same linear path.

Anyway. Enough rambling...
09-23-2011, 06:15 AM
AmyRae

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eekiki

I knew I could hear Bayohne laughing all the way from here. You're actually enjoying watching us argue, aren't you?! :D

It's akin to watching fish in a tank after some food has been sprinkled in, no doubt ;)
09-23-2011, 06:25 AM
AmyRae

Quote:

Originally Posted by gahoo

The second issue is seen easily from the above list I think - that Archer was not originally a support job - meaning people who selected archers did not want to play that role. If the party role for the archer is support, you've "forced" (as much as it can be forced, which it really isn't) archers to play a role they didn't want to play. This argument could also be made for some of the other classes, but it is more pronounced with an Archer/Bard line than a Gladiator/Paladin line.

Arguably, you could say some people have chosen the Archer class because it has renown for being a tremendously effective damage dealer, and a ranged one at that, and thus very desirable for parties. Being turned into a Bard may not necessarily satisfy a continuation of that role (but they do seem to be able to shoot arrows still, so I'm not yet convinced it's a diminishment of their damage-dealing capacity), but being the only support job in the game is certainly a continuation of a guaranteed seat in any party. If this was your motivation for playing an Archer, then your future relevance has just been secured for all time.
09-23-2011, 06:59 AM
Anon

That harp bow monstrosity is really going to kill what little immersion I have. I can not stress what a mistake converting archer to bard is; as mentioned going from dd to support is a ridiculous transition. I know people have emotional attachment to the bard job but just give a mage haste-ga for now and leave bard to be released later when the time is right instead of force feeding us a half-baked idea now.
09-23-2011, 07:08 AM
AmyRae

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anon

That harp bow monstrosity is really going to kill what little immersion I have. I can not stress what a mistake converting archer to bard is; as mentioned going from dd to support is a ridiculous transition. I know people have emotional attachment to the bard job but just give a mage haste-ga for now and leave bard to be released later when the time is right instead of force feeding us a half-baked idea.

I'm posting way too much here. Must stop soon.

I think Bards will continue to be fine damage dealers. You'll just be able to buff your party, too. I mean, the job sounds overpowered to me, not underwhelming. From where I'm sitting, the must-have jobs for any party are going to White Mages, Paladins, and Bards. You'll always have a seat at the table waiting for you. How is this bad?

As for the weapon, I have to tell you, it breaks my immersion not to have fantasy contraptions in a fantasy game. This is the sort of thing we need to see more of, not less.
09-23-2011, 07:14 AM
Griss

Ya know, The first time i looked at a pickaxe in the game i wondered "How the heck is this thing suposed to be used to dig up any thing". then it did the cool little transformation deal and i said "well hell i guess that's how"

It will probably be the same for the bow harp... barp? borp? bowp? we need to come up with a nickname for this contraption.

Bayo perhaps you could poke some one at the main office to post some more of those really cool concept art pictures, or maby some screen shots of the finished stuff in game. Like johnny 5 once said, Need more input!
09-23-2011, 07:24 AM
Arcell

Hate to say I told you so....oh wait, no i don't. Told you so :3

Childish taunting aside, I may very well go level Archer now. Transforming weapons are a really cool concept in my mind, definitely got my attention there.
09-23-2011, 07:32 AM
Physic

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anon

That harp bow monstrosity is really going to kill what little immersion I have. I can not stress what a mistake converting archer to bard is; as mentioned going from dd to support is a ridiculous transition. I know people have emotional attachment to the bard job but just give a mage haste-ga for now and leave bard to be released later when the time is right instead of force feeding us a half-baked idea now.

well honestly i wouldnt be surprised if asrcher went support, but in a more archer like way, with debuffs and and control spells, rather than buffs, which is common to bard.

On one side i think its creative and potentially entertaining, on the other side, it is a really crazy transition in a number of ways.
there is no way in which support is a specialisation of archer. archer has about two support abilities, and they are debuffs, swinging the opposite way is quite a shift, not an evolution.

making a job require a new weapon type, thats going to do a lot of crazy things, this might be subverted by having the option to have the swiss army bow, or like 2 or 3 weapons in different slots.. but still pretty weird.

Stealing the job from a class more suited for bard, this is a major problem, it could be solved with a sentinel like musical class, that instrumentalist can get later, but if they were going to make the job later what would it be called?

It highlights even further how the job system alters the armory system. because if these jobs are worthwhile, they are better than jobs at certain playstyles. which means, your archer should in fact be gimp compared to whatever DD, or the new DD are not better at their roles. This means...
your archer is basically dead.
when they say the other jobs are mostly for soloing, they mean the ability to use a lot of other job skills. the barcher will most likely have the exact same damage potential as an archer, (maybe slightly different due to stat allocation IF the stat tables are different)
basically jobs are infact replacing classes. replacing, and limiting them to specifc roles.

but we all knew this. The whole solo thing is basically saying, yeah you can be jack of all trades when no ones around. Even though it is honestly questionable if that will even be accurate. lets be honest, with the huge mp drain of curing, in terms of soloing you are only getting so much bang for your buck. Is getting access to protect, cure and shock spikes really going to beat a generous increased in damage?

the most valuable cross class skills on pug now, are raging strike, invigorate, bloodbath, one keeps me alive, the rest are DD related, and i expect that pug will have its DD potential increased, so how useful is pugilist for soloing really? probably not at all.
09-23-2011, 07:36 AM
indira

they already showed blackmage & dark knight looking armor as a sketch & theres some leaks of the model from data mining.
09-23-2011, 07:39 AM
OMEGA_HACK

Quote:

Originally Posted by indira

they already showed blackmage & Dragoon looking armor as a sketch & theres some leaks of the model from data mining.

Fixed this for you.
09-23-2011, 07:39 AM
Mindx3

Quote:

Originally Posted by User201109011315

Thing is, I like the concept art, but it screws over the potential of ever expanding on the armory system.

Classes will now be just an intermediate to dedicated jobs/roles, rather than a platform for people to define their own roles.

It shrinks the potential of the game. Even though the bardic-bow is actually quite an interesting design, it isn't good for the game in the long term, as it sets a precendent for confusion of the job and class dichotomy.

This doesnt screw up anything lol, jobs are the platforms to define your own roles lmao not classes and is in itself an expansion to the armoury system. How can this not be good for the game? It doesnt confuse anyone, you select Bard and your a bard. It just so happens that this bard can shoot arrows. The potential for growth in terms of strategy is huge.
09-23-2011, 07:53 AM
Rumpelstiltzkin

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kiote

He says it transforms, he does not say it folds.

Thank you so much! This made me so happy! Yay for "passive" spellcasting :D
09-23-2011, 08:09 AM
Kyra

Im not playing no crappy harp-bow Ranger/bard hybrid. There goes my favorite class.
09-23-2011, 08:11 AM
Endemerrin

Quote:

Originally Posted by Kyra

Im not playing no crappy harp-bow Ranger/bard hybrid. There goes my favorite class.

Your class isn't going anywhere. You'll still be able to fill the role of a damage dealer. You just won't be able to if you play it's job.
09-23-2011, 08:13 AM
User201109011315

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mindx3

This doesnt screw up anything lol, jobs are the platforms to define your own roles lmao not classes and is in itself an expansion to the armoury system. How can this not be good for the game? It doesnt confuse anyone, you select Bard and your a bard. It just so happens that this bard can shoot arrows. The potential for growth in terms of strategy is huge.

Ugh, learn the game.
09-23-2011, 08:22 AM
Travesty

The problem with Archer breaking down to Bard is that the progression is asinine from a lore and from a practical perspective. An instrument playing class like Musician or something should have been introduced, and then broken down as Bard, and Archer should have broken down into something else like some kind of ranger or assassin that wields different arrows or something. Those kinds of progressions make sense.

Wielding a bow and a musical instrument are 2 completely different kinds of disciplines that in ANY kind of practical world, fantasy or otherwise, both require completely separate dedication and have nothing to do with one another.

Much like sticking a feather up your butt does not make you a chicken, sticking a harp/lyre/trumpet/whatever on a bow does not make an Archer a musician. It's just a silly concept that ultimately has a pretty simple fix with a little more work from the devs.
09-23-2011, 08:33 AM
Physic

Quote:

Originally Posted by Endemerrin

Your class isn't going anywhere. You'll still be able to fill the role of a damage dealer. You just won't be able to if you play it's job.

highly unlikely. If they design these new jobs, who specialize in DD and they cant noticeably beat a vanilla archer, then those classes have no reason to exist. If they perform similarly to archer, then archer is really the only god class with 2 roles it can perform in a party at a high level.

Thats not to say this wont be the case, the dev team has had some rather large oversights about the archer class before, but i would have to hope the classes who sacrifice versatility to dd, can actually you know DD.
09-23-2011, 08:38 AM
Racht

I fully expected Archer to turn into Ranger or Sniper. Bard IS quite strange. But I'll give it a go once patch hits! ^_^
09-23-2011, 09:05 AM
Andrien

It could transform into a Crossbow. >_>? Who knows
09-23-2011, 09:13 AM
Kiote

Quote:

Originally Posted by Mindx3

This doesnt screw up anything lol, jobs are the platforms to define your own roles lmao not classes and is in itself an expansion to the armoury system. How can this not be good for the game? It doesnt confuse anyone, you select Bard and your a bard. It just so happens that this bard can shoot arrows. The potential for growth in terms of strategy is huge.

What you just said makes no sense. Jobs are specifically being implemented to restrict a class into a singular role. That is the exact opposite of self definition. It is in fact a way to force players into predefined party roles rather than allow them dto decide on their own play style.

If Jobs were to assist in the definition of ones own role they would not have a singular role in a party.
09-23-2011, 09:49 AM
Umo

Quote:

Originally Posted by Andrien

It could transform into a Crossbow. >_>? Who knows

Good point there, Andrien. This makes sense to me. About the "Bard-harp-lyre-instrument" theory... Hmmm... Meh.
09-23-2011, 10:17 AM
User201109011315

Quote:

Originally Posted by Physic

highly unlikely. If they design these new jobs, who specialize in DD and they cant noticeably beat a vanilla archer, then those classes have no reason to exist. If they perform similarly to archer, then archer is really the only god class with 2 roles it can perform in a party at a high level.

Thats not to say this wont be the case, the dev team has had some rather large oversights about the archer class before, but i would have to hope the classes who sacrifice versatility to dd, can actually you know DD.

True, if you level up archer, you basically levelled up two classes to 50 for the price of one. Bard and archer.

Luckily I have archer at 50, suh-weeeet.

(actually it's still really lame)
09-23-2011, 10:51 AM
Nakiamiie

Quote:

Originally Posted by Bayohne

I can tell you that it is in fact a bow that transforms.

A-W-E-S-O-M-E !!! :D
Can't wait to see that in-game!!
09-23-2011, 11:10 AM
Zahak

Quote:

Originally Posted by Nakiamiie

A-W-E-S-O-M-E !!! :D
Can't wait to see that in-game!!

Same! :) I hope they can just play flute without their bow if they so choose. Just for playing in the streets? lol
09-23-2011, 11:13 AM
Masamune

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ixador

Hello Scythelance.

....j/k :p

What IS that by the dragon knights right hand. Looks like some sort of a scythe to me.

Also, *yawn* white mage cloak. I think all the concepts are awesome besides this. At least the Black mage has some flare to it. Though it doesn't because CON has flare ha-ha.
09-23-2011, 05:34 PM
Rinsui

Quote:

Whos "they"?, did u go online and subscribe to the online magazine Connect!on and read what they wrote? Which dev gave the confirmed 7 jobs? was it an interview or was it some inside scoop the writer had? where's the official post in the SE forums? If you're only referring Reinhearts translated version of Marc's post, thats far from being anything close to official.

Dude, you are becoming more and more embarassing.
Yes, I did read the Connect!on article, and yes, I am Japanese.
Btw: Bahyonne just confirmed that the bow is a transformable tool.
How many more dots do you need to connect a line?
09-23-2011, 11:29 PM
Lilith

Not enough strings to be a harp. Who would want that anyway!?
It's an Ukulele I tell you. \o/ AWESOME, I always wanted one!!!!
Thank you SE!!!!
09-23-2011, 11:31 PM
Colino

Quote:

Originally Posted by Lilith

Not enough strings to be a harp. Who would want that anyway!?
It's an Ukulele I tell you. \o/ AWESOME, I always wanted one!!!!
Thank you SE!!!!

OH MY GOD.

I actually had a dream last night about it being an Ukulele.. And then I see this...

It must be DESTINY that has brought this upon is... ITS A UKULELE!
09-23-2011, 11:32 PM
Zetsumei_Tsunarashi

I dunno kinda looks like a banjo to me. Just turn it sideways and squint a little. The evidence is indisputable !!
09-23-2011, 11:33 PM
LlenCoram

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colino

OH MY GOD.

I actually had a dream last night about it being an Ukulele.. And then I see this...

It must be DESTINY that has brought this upon is... ITS A UKULELE!

Last night I dreamed of sitting on the waters edge, a fishing rod stuck between my toes, and my chocobo sleeping calmly next to me. An LS mate sat down next to me, pulled out his ukulele and started playing a song.

Surely it's a sign. Make this happen SE. Give us our ukulele bows.
09-23-2011, 11:34 PM
OJtheLIONKing

I'd level Ranger all the way just to have a harp I can play between kills. What a wonderfully sociopathic sounding combination.

I really really dig the Paladin-y armor. I'm definitely getting that ASAP.
09-23-2011, 11:35 PM
Colino

Quote:

Originally Posted by LlenCoram

Last night I dreamed of sitting on the waters edge, a fishing rod stuck between my toes, and my chocobo sleeping calmly next to me. An LS mate sat down next to me, pulled out his ukulele and started playing a song.

Surely it's a sign. Make this happen SE. Give us our ukulele bows.

Brother, that was I in your dreams... As you where in mine!

There is no way out of this, that bow transforms into a UKULELE!

I for one welcome our new wizard-of-oz-covers master race bards.

Show 40 post(s) from this thread on one page