NINJA and ROGUE confirmed

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Originally Posted by Jandor

Three Thief job ideas have been posted in this thread, that I've seen anyway.

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Add mine to that list:

Abilities
30 Steal: Steals a "dusty" item from the enemy. Is replaced by Use Spoils when successful. The stolen item is of poor quality and will break/vanish after 15 seconds. Success rate is determined by melee accuracy rating.
---Use Spoils: Use an item stolen from the enemy.

35 Accomplice: Increases target party member's attack power by 10% and transfers 50% of your total generated enmity to target party member for 10 seconds. 60-second cooldown.

40 Aura Steal: Steal a beneficial effect from target enemy. Success rate is determined by melee accuracy rating.

45 Viper Bite: Delivers an attack with a potency of 80 and poisons target for 15 seconds (poison potency: 10). Combo => Shiv: for every VB poison tick, you recover X TP.

50 Throat Stab: Delivers an attack with a potency of 120 (300 if behind the target). 3-minute cooldown

The basic idea would be the THF using Steal to take a dusty item from their foe and using it. Dusty items would always be beneficial on some level, but will vary between potions, grenades, and a special brew with a random positive effect. Accomplice would be a nod to how THF was originally designed in FFXI while giving it an ability more akin to the WoW Rogue's Tricks of the Trade (increases damage of target party member and transfer threat to that party member). Aura Steal would be very useful in a raid setting, provided THF is not the only job with the ability to effectively dispel enemy buffs (this would essentially be a melee version of WoW's Spellsteal ability).

Viper Bite and Throat Stab are mandatory to help THF in combat, because let's face the fact that the job's never had good melee options with the exception of Zidane in FFIX. Viper Bite is designed as an ability that increases TP regen (I originally conceived it as a combo ability for a Rogue ability called Shiv that also restored TP). Throat Stab could be a stand-alone attack like Dragonfire Dive, or an ability that teleports the THF behind the target before stabbing them in the throat.

Nalien I like you idea. I think it would be cool if a Thief Job could steal stats from a monster and temporary debuff the mob as well as buff the entire party with whatever stats are stolen. Also I think it would be extra cool to have a Thief that could us a boomerang as a range attack action. Plus maybe stealing keys off mobs to open doors in instance dungeons would be super fun. There are so many things to think of to make Thief work.

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Originally Posted by silentwindfr

that the main trouble of the thief, it's nice in 1 player rpg... but the thief of FF series can't be used in mmorpg, because all they have is stealing! is not enough for make a jobs! a jobs need more deepth. indeed right now we only have 5 skill as jobs class, but what will happend when the level cap will be raised? maybe we will only get jobs skill.

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You mean like all Dragoon had was Jumping?

That didn't stop the developers giving Dragoon four Jumps and a move that enhances Jumps, I'm sure it wont stop them implementing Thief, either.

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Originally Posted by Exstal

To be fair, they aren't saying Ninja is Thief. But Rogue is, but I guess since all classes are jobs, they are indirectly saying it.

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Actually, some of them literally were. I specifically remember someone telling me to just play Ninja and pretend its Thief.

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Originally Posted by Exstal

Because if you did it that way, Ranger would be massively overpowered and be the only class that you play. Bard is balanced to against other DPS classes. So if you decide to add Ranger into the mix the Archer base class needs nerfs across to the board while simultaneously buffing Bard's job skills to make up for the deficit.

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Did you just tell me it's not possible because Ranger would be overpowered, and then suggest how to prevent Ranger from being overpowered? Thanks... I guess...

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Originally Posted by Exstal

So basically make Thief as needed as Bard because of support. Cool. It still won't change the gameplay difference between itself and Ninja because your rotations are almost always based on how your class plays and not the job.

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Thief Steals to provide buffs.
Ninja does hand combinations to spit out Ninjitsu.
In between they both use the same combos.

Is that really any different from Scholar and Summoner? I mean, sure loads of Scholars are trash and never touch Bio once they hit 30, but when I play Summoner and Scholar, the play styles are pretty similar except Summoner uses Fester/Ruin in place of healing spells.

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Originally Posted by Exstal

Don't misrepresent my statement. There is no job skill that Ranger could get that Archer doesn't already have, whereas White Mage received Holy. Ranger's iconic skills; Aim, Barrage. What does Archer have as base skills? Aim, Barrage. Now, nothing's impossible but it's not like devs have a whole lot of time to bring jobs that would be redundant so quickly. Bring out other wanted classes that need to fill the void first then we can backtrack to other things.

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So what? You make it sound like Power Surge, Spineshatter Dive, Elusive Jump, Dragonfire Dive, Hallowed Ground, Spirits Within, Shield Oath, Sword Oath, Dragon Kick, One Ilm Punch, Fists of Fire, Shoulder Tackle, Rock Breaker, Infuriate, Steel Cyclone, Unchained, Inner Beast, Defiance, Battle Voice, Rain of Death, Benediction, Divine Seal, Presence Of Mind, Manawall, Apocatastasis, Convert, Enkindle, Spur, Tri-disaster, Fester, Lustrate, Sacred Soil, Leeches, Succor, Adloquium, Eos, and Selene are all classic abilities related to their Jobs.

They're not. I've said it before; Jobs only add a few classic skills, the majority are generic MMO skills. Most of the ones on that list people will recognize as being related to the Job will be from XI and I don't include them as classics because one game doesn't make for a classic skill, not matter how long we may have played that same game. They can do the exact same thing with Ranger. Eagle Eye Shot. There we go, Ranger has one recognizably Ranger skill. Same as Warrior.

As for bringing "needed" classes first... What needed classes? Rogue/Ninja is literally only getting added now to fill a stealth mechanic in PvP. The game has all the needed classes. Strictly speaking we don't need another Tank class few people will place, or another healer class. Not to mention, secondary Jobs require far less work to implement than additional Classes. Throw in; Marauder > Dark Knight, Pugilist > Dancer, Archer > Ranger, Conjurer > Geomancer, and that's four classic Jobs to please fans for very little work.

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Originally Posted by Exstal

And finally, they don't have to bring every job into the game.

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As if that's going to stop people asking for them or expecting them.

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Originally Posted by Bigpurpleharness

I'm truly surprised you're still arguing with the people who keep touting, "People who want thief just want a name change, herp derp."

Isn't it obvious by now they're either ignorantly or intentionally ignoring your arguments? There have been pages addressing their points, they manage to make ONE post that isn't, "You just want a name change! It wouldn't add anything!", and then go right back to their circular argument.

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I blame SE for making me wait for FATEs, though the fact that this isn't getting anywhere is why I've taken to editing my posts, rather than wasting my daily allowance of posts (why is that a thing again?).

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Originally Posted by Nalien

You're kidding, right? Plenty of people throughout this thread have been claiming that, since Ninja comes from Rogue, and Rogue "is" Thief, you can just play Ninja as Thief (with Glamours) and ignore the 5 Ninja skills. It's been a very common argument from team "No Thief!", actually...

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To be fair, they aren't saying Ninja is Thief. But Rogue is, but I guess since all classes are jobs, they are indirectly saying it.

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Having Thief come off Rogue really isn't impossible either. We already know every Class will eventually have two Jobs, even if the developers don't drastically alter the system to allow that properly, something like Archer can have Bard and Ranger. Ranger would simply be pure DPS, while Bard throws in so support at the cost of DPS. Why could they not, for example, do the same thing with Ninja and Thief?

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Because if you did it that way, Ranger would be massively overpowered and be the only class that you play. Bard is balanced to against other DPS classes. So if you decide to add Ranger into the mix the Archer base class needs nerfs across to the board while simultaneously buffing Bard's job skills to make up for the deficit.

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Ninjitsu doesn't have to be offensive (in fact one of the most well known ones isn't), alternative you could take the old role Thief had very literally; stealing to help the party, and make Thief a semi-support Job. Instead of stealing gear, potions and items, it could simply work a different way, while still maintaining the steal motif. If you take Ninja as the semi-support role, then it's actually in a better position than Bard already; 3 Songs does not a Bard make, but 3 skills to make combinations to make Ninjitus? That's potential for a lot of Ninjitsu from just 3 skills.

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So basically make Thief as needed as Bard because of support. Cool. It still won't change the gameplay difference between itself and Ninja because your rotations are almost always based on how your class plays and not the job.

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You'll probably disagree with Archer getting Ranger though, since Archer already has Rangers skills. Because it's not like Conjurer has White Mages skills already; first skill that comes to mind when I think of White Mage is Cure, at least.

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Of course I'd disagree with Archer getting Ranger.

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Best way I think though, is to make Ninja a pure DPS, and Thief a semi-support Job, and they can do that easily with a Steal/Use mechanic. First skill could be Steal, which provides you with a unique effect based on the rarity of what you stole, and the enemy, it could even be detrimental. Next skill is Use, which lets you give that effect to the target. Very similar to my earlier suggestion, but much simpler. The other skills, like Paladin and White Mage etc., could just be generic MMO skills. You could still give them a Thief style twist though; an ability that converts the status effect into "Gil" (you sell it) which you then throw at the enemy, seeing as Gil Toss can never decide if its a Thief or Samurai skill.

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This is the same problem as Ranger / Bard foolishness. Ninja will be balanced against other DPS (DRG/MNK/BLM/SMN/BRD) while THF's support skills have to be good enough that it allows them to compete in DPS. How do you determine that? Make those skills either really strong and give a very good raid increase.

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How so? The majority of White Mages spell list comes from Conjurer, not White Mage. If you say Ranger can't come off Archer because Archer has Rangers skills, then the same should be true of Conjurer and White Mage. Fact of the matter is, even if the Class has it's skills, they can still add a Job to it, because once again and I am tired of saying this; Jobs literally only exist to provide the name and iconic imagery.

To quote Exstal;

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-Want Ranger? Define it first because Archer currently has their main skills

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Want White Mage? Define it first because Conjurer currently has their main skills.

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Don't misrepresent my statement. There is no job skill that Ranger could get that Archer doesn't already have, whereas White Mage received Holy. Ranger's iconic skills; Aim, Barrage. What does Archer have as base skills? Aim, Barrage. Now, nothing's impossible but it's not like devs have a whole lot of time to bring jobs that would be redundant so quickly. Bring out other wanted classes that need to fill the void first then we can backtrack to other things.

For example, let's see Dark Knight, Samurai, Red Mage, Geomancer and Dancer make an appearance before we go back and play with Thief (because Rogue/Ninja) and Ranger (because Archer/Bard). Doing it now is a waste of resources to have two of the same type of job that have nothing new to bring to the play style.

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once again and I am tired of saying this; Jobs literally only exist to provide the name and iconic imagery.

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And finally, they don't have to bring every job into the game.

On a side note; I'm stoked for Ninja. Monk is probably my second favourite class because of dual wield, and I can jump on people's head? Awesome.

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Originally Posted by Jandor

Three Thief job ideas have been posted in this thread, that I've seen anyway.

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I'll grant you 2/3 because the one by Nero is overpowered and worthless.

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Originally Posted by Exstal

Because if you did it that way, Ranger would be massively overpowered and be the only class that you play. Bard is balanced to against other DPS classes. So if you decide to add Ranger into the mix the Archer base class needs nerfs across to the board while simultaneously buffing Bard's job skills to make up for the deficit.

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Not really. The devs never gave ARC channeled shots, and that's probably what would be given to RNG if that were to stem from Archer. Rangers could be more DoT-based or better AoE or something along those lines. Similarly to how Marksmanship hunters and Survival hunters are very different despite coming from the same base class.

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There is no job skill that Ranger could get that Archer doesn't already have, whereas White Mage received Holy. Ranger's iconic skills; Aim, Barrage. What does Archer have as base skills? Aim, Barrage.

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This is irrelevant because at the end of the day RNG/THF/whatever will be defined by its mechanics and role. I'd worry less about Barrage and more about how it would work and what type of design would make sense for them.

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Originally Posted by Duelle

This is irrelevant because at the end of the day RNG/THF/whatever will be defined by its mechanics and role. I'd worry less about Barrage and more about how it would work and what type of design would make sense for them.

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I kind of picture Ranger as the Sniper type of Job in FF14 due to Ranger's role as the long range job of the FF series.

But that only my guess how they can design Ranger.

I'm truly surprised you're still arguing with the people who keep touting, "People who want thief just want a name change, herp derp."

Isn't it obvious by now they're either ignorantly or intentionally ignoring your arguments? There have been pages addressing their points, they manage to make ONE post that isn't, "You just want a name change! It wouldn't add anything!", and then go right back to their circular argument.

guys stop whining and suck it up if want thf so badly don't ever use the ninja stone and u can be a rogue all the way to 50 and be hated by everyone you come across have fun with that :)

I just wanted to point out that in a recent interview Yoshi said that ROG and NIN will receive different drops from primals. This means that either they're making the first viable instance of using a class over a job or perhaps we'll be seeing a 2nd job coming from ROG as well either in secret at 2.3 or shortly after release. My bet would be placed on ROG getting a 2nd job as SMN/ACN get different weapons than SCH from primals. Perhaps THF tank will be a reality and be the expansion's announced tank afterall! Or, perhaps just another DPS that plays differently thank NIN.

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Originally Posted by Jandor

Three Thief job ideas have been posted in this thread, that I've seen anyway.

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I had one either in this thread or another (so hard to keep track with all the similar threads!) that made THF a tank as well. Found it:

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Originally Posted by MartaDemireux

Essentially what I expect:

Rogue/Scout (DPS):
Stealth/Hide (PvP: blocked out or have very short duration)
Attacks focus on hitting from behind. Fast, critical hitter.
Buffs to evasion.
Steal & Swipe but won't steal items. Perhaps used in mechanic for other abilities or temporary potions. Only usable while in stealth.
Accomplice - equalize the enmity of you and another player.
Flee - increased movement speed, stacks with sprint but not with Swiftsong.

Ninja (DPS):
30: Throw - Ranged attack.
35: Blitz - AoE lightning damage.
40: Water Veil - Ranged water damage and silence.
45: Smoke Bomb - Ranged damage and Blind.
50: Mirage/Utsusemi - Buff that allows your back attack bonuses to be applied at any direction. Allows short duration of stealth while in combat. Bonus damage while in stealth.

Thief (Tank):
30: Vigilance: Tank enmity/mitigation stance. Allows counter-attacks. Changes some class abilities to generate enmity. Adds a mechanic to theft type abilities and can be used while not in stealth. Steal upgrades to Mug, Swipe to Pillage for increased enmity and added damage. Accomplice takes some of the other players enmity and adds it to your own etc.
35: Life Steal/Pilfer HP: Steals HP from target. High enmity.
40: Detect: Anticipates attacks for reduced/nullified damage.
45: Larceny: Steal an active buff from target. If no buff steals TP and deals critical damage. High enmity.
50: Perfect Dodge: Long cooldown 100% mitigation.

Thief varied a lot in other games so it can be changed significantly in this one like they did with Scholar.

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But certain people are insisting that THF must be a DPS because it's coming from a DPS class (SCH says "Hello") or that it must be DPS because it has been considered as such before (WAR says "Hello") and obviously jobs can't have a different role than they have in the past (BRD says "Hello"). Several current MMO's use the stealty tank archetype successfully. We definitely need a different tank archetype in this game. We have the standard sword and shield and the 2-handed versions both heavily armored and pretty much just eating all the hits. Boring!

It honestly sounds like they're already making NIN a very different playstyle than ROG as it is. I'm guessing the entire mudra system is NIN exclusive.

As far as the RNG argument:

RNG could play entirely different than ARC/BRD. Instead of shooting in running they could stand still while shooting for increased damage via a draw gauge which increases the damage depending on how tight you've been drawing your bow; Animals can make a reappearance from FFV to add extra damage and/or support; Trapping can be utilized from the tactics series; We have abilities that aren't used too often such as Shadowbind and Repelling Shot which could be given their own mechanics. Possibilities are nearly endless.

id be more interested in an assassin than an actual thf

A Thief tank would be interesting... Obviously Steal would apply to enmity, which would be different enough from Provoke, somewhat fits with XIs Thief as well. That would make it an evasion based tank that steals enmity, rather than building it themselves. I like that concept lol, you'd have your regular DPS skills from Rogue, and then Thief skills for gaining and maintaining hate. Actually reminds me of Zidane, he certainly wasn't a stealthy Thief, more of a mischievous, center of attention, type Thief.

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Originally Posted by Nalien

A Thief tank would be interesting... Obviously Steal would apply to enmity, which would be different enough from Provoke, somewhat fits with XIs Thief as well. That would make it an evasion based tank that steals enmity, rather than building it themselves. I like that concept lol, you'd have your regular DPS skills from Rogue, and then Thief skills for gaining and maintaining hate. Actually reminds me of Zidane, he certainly wasn't a stealthy Thief, more of a mischievous, center of attention, type Thief.

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Only trouble though would be the evasion aspect. RIFT has an interesting rogue-styled tank that teleports around the monster to evade attacks but I don't think that'd work here with all the positional requirements of DPS. But nonetheless it would still be possible to have a rogue-styled tank. Perhaps that's why the tank is taking so long to implement - they are trying to create a balanced new tank style.

evade tanks are doomed, u need 50% dodge chance + huge armor behind all that or u are going to get job tank that in bad pulls gets2 shoted.....wipe and try again to see if the tank dodges now more ...no? ok wipe again.....Tank + CHANCE of instant death = fail design.


examples of "light" tanks that work: druid in wow (no parry no block , huge dodge and armor) , Monk in Eq2 , medium armor lots of dodge , dont dodge back to back? faceplant (that changed over the expansions still...) riftstalkers in rift works because armor buff , a huge "stoneskin" on top of that that the tank can refresh nearly ever 6s. lots of Cds too on top of that, and As far as i know stalkers in Wildstar can tank anything too :)

There will not be thief. I am happy with Rogue and Ninja. I wish they would have made Rogue less like the wow rouge though.

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Originally Posted by Destinova

There will not be thief. I am happy with Rogue and Ninja. I wish they would have made Rogue less like the wow rouge though.

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We are discussing Thief to let the devs know that there are people interesting in playing a Thief Job. Just like with same sex marriage, if people didn't voice their opinion there would not be same sex marriage coming to the game. I feel its worth the shot to ask for something that I and others would enjoy in the game.

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Originally Posted by LoLo

We are discussing Thief to let the devs know that there are people interesting in playing a Thief Job. Just like with same sex marriage, if people didn't voice their opinion there would not be same sex marriage coming to the game. I feel its worth the shot to ask for something that I would enjoy in the game.

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It's understandable WHY you're doing it. But you're asking them to implement something that requires them to completely rework the lore, history, story and backgrounds that they already have made. The same sex marriage is only a matter of allowing the eligible "members" number to increase.

You're basically bashing your head against a wall that won't break. At least when it comes to the name of "Thief". Like I mentioned before, they may very well add a Job down the line that will play like the Thief you so desperately want, but be named something else.

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Originally Posted by Abraxis

It's understandable WHY you're doing it. But you're asking them to implement something that requires them to completely rework the lore, history, story and backgrounds that they already have made. The same sex marriage is only a matter of allowing the eligible "members" number to increase.

You're basically bashing your head against a wall that won't break. At least when it comes to the name of "Thief". Like I mentioned before, they may very well add a Job down the line that will play like the Thief you so desperately want, but be named something else.

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It was a weak excuse to say that Thief can not fit into the lore. It is totally possible to fit Thief in without going against the lore because currently there are killers, scammers, people who sell sex, Pirates, Cults, rapist, Atmos which is a portal to a dark world, a nazi-like enemy that wants to kill all the Primals which act like selfish Gods to the beastmen. There is no reason why Thief couldn't be added. Not only that it is simple to add Thief by just making a Thief job stem from Rogue. There is no proof yet that has convinced me that it is impossible to add a Thief Job.

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Originally Posted by Warlyx

evade tanks are doomed, u need 50% dodge chance + huge armor behind all that or u are going to get job tank that in bad pulls gets2 shoted.....wipe and try again to see if the tank dodges now more ...no? ok wipe again.....Tank + CHANCE of instant death = fail design.

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Evasion based damage mitigation doesn't mean it has to have a low HP pool.

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Originally Posted by Abraxis

It's understandable WHY you're doing it. But you're asking them to implement something that requires them to completely rework the lore, history, story and backgrounds that they already have made. The same sex marriage is only a matter of allowing the eligible "members" number to increase.

You're basically bashing your head against a wall that won't break. At least when it comes to the name of "Thief". Like I mentioned before, they may very well add a Job down the line that will play like the Thief you so desperately want, but be named something else.

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Not at all, rogues come from thiefs, thief job comes from a rogue rogue using a thief soul stone to steal Garlean battle plans, level 50 job quest has you planting incorrect plans and leading them into an ambush. Fits with everything I've heard so far :).

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Originally Posted by LoLo

Not only that it is simple to add Thief by just making a Thief job stem from Rogue.

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So you want them to add a Job from a Class that "moved on" from being the Job that they "moved on" from?

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Originally Posted by LoLo

There is no proof yet that has convinced me that it is impossible to add a Thief Job.

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You mean other than the fact that the man that rebuilt the game, basically from the ground up, saying "No Thief"?

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Originally Posted by Jandor

Not at all, rogues come from thiefs, thief job comes from a rogue rogue using a thief soul stone

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So if they go from Thief to a Rogue, and then back to Thief...what's the point of Rogue in the first place?

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Originally Posted by Abraxis

It's understandable WHY you're doing it. But you're asking them to implement something that requires them to completely rework the lore, history, story and backgrounds that they already have made. The same sex marriage is only a matter of allowing the eligible "members" number to increase.

You're basically bashing your head against a wall that won't break. At least when it comes to the name of "Thief". Like I mentioned before, they may very well add a Job down the line that will play like the Thief you so desperately want, but be named something else.

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Jobs do not need to be 'legal' the way guilds and classes do. Technically becoming a black mage is forbidden by law as the job quests explain yet we manage to do that... so why on earth would a thief job be any different?

Whilst SE have said that rogues used to be thieves, unless they have steal, mug, etc. then that gap will always remain open for them to add the job later on down the line. Thief has the potential to be a support job similarly to bard (stealing stats and distributing them amongst the party, transferring enmity from one party member to another to secure the tank's control of the target, etc). Considering that many people want Archer to get a Ranger job (which would leave Archer with effectively two DD roles) I see no reason why Rogue couldn't have the same as long as Thief is fundamentally different to Ninja (and those steal skills really could make it very different).

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Originally Posted by Abraxis

So you want them to add a Job from a Class that "moved on" from being the Job that they "moved on" from?

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Proof of this please?

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Originally Posted by Abraxis

You mean other than the fact that the man that rebuilt the game, basically from the ground up, saying "No Thief"?

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Proof of this please?

Also that same man you described said he wasn't putting in same sex marriage but its coming now. So he can change his mind. People who get mad at others who want something changed in the game are just defending the game because to them the devs can do no wrong. That attitude is hindering the games progress.

Can we just settle on the fact that everything we know about Rogue/Ninja/Thief is incredibly vague and can be twisted to support whatever fantasy you want it to fit? This is probably the 6th time this argument has flared up. Hopefully, they will clarify this during the first 2.4 live letter or hopefully, way before then.

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Originally Posted by Abraxis

You mean other than the fact that the man that rebuilt the game, basically from the ground up, saying "No Thief"?

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He never actually said 'no thief'... he said 'no thieves guild' which is an entirely different thing. Nowhere at all has it been stated that a Thief job could not happen.

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Originally Posted by LoLo

Proof of this please?

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Did you not bother watching the Live letter? I mean...at all?

Here, I didn't want to bother doing all the work for you but i'll oblige. Evolved from thieves. Watch at least the next 10 minutes of it as well. They expand on it even more and "...why would a city even allow something like that..."

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Originally Posted by LoLo

Proof of this please? Also that same man you described said he wasn't putting in same sex marriage but its coming now. So he can change his mind. People who get mad at others who want something changed in the game are just defending the game because to them the devs can do no wrong. That attitude is hindering the games progress.

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And Yoshida NEVER said outright "nope, no gay marriage". I'll even post the quote and link

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Originally Posted by Square Enix

First we would like to start out with opposite-sex marriage, and then consider the feedback from our players in order to make a careful decision. I can't say whether or not it will be possible at this point in time.

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The rest of the Q and A is here. You'll have to scroll down a bit, or just Ctrl+F and search for "Marriage". So it was specifically stated that they WOULD listen to player feedback and go from there. So they're doing EXACTLY what you want them to. They're listening to players before making a final decision.

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Originally Posted by Alberel

He never actually said 'no thief'... he said 'no thieves guild' which is an entirely different thing. Nowhere at all has it been stated that a Thief job could not happen.

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True, i'll give you that. But why would they specifically state that Rogues WERE Theives, only to revert back to what they came FROM?

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Originally Posted by Abraxis

So if they go from Thief to a Rogue, and then back to Thief...what's the point of Rogue in the first place?

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They became Rogues because no one wanted a bunch of Thieves hanging around, however after all this time they find they need to make use of those neglected thievery skills from their shady past in order to help the realm. Enter the player character, who will track down one of the last surviving members of the old order of thiefs who refused to join in setting up the Rogues guild, he teaches you the lost art of stealing stuff and together you infilitrate a Garlean base, steal some important stuff and save Eorzea.

Ask me a hard one :p.

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Originally Posted by Abraxis

Did you not bother watching the Live letter? I mean...at all?

Here, I didn't want to bother doing all the work for you but i'll oblige. Evolved from thieves. Watch at least the next 10 minutes of it as well. They expand on it even more and "...why would a city even allow something like that..."




And Yoshida NEVER said outright "nope, no gay marriage". I'll even post the quote and link

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Because Rogue came from Thief you want me to believe its impossible to add? Sorry but that isn't enough proof for me to believe anything you are saying. I will continue to ask for a Thief Job until Yoshi P saids "No plans to add a Thief Job ever."

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Originally Posted by LoLo

Because Rogue came from Thief you want me to believe its impossible to add? Sorry but that isn't enough proof for me to believe anything you are saying. I will continue to ask for a Thief Job until Yoshi P saids "No plans to add a Thief Job ever."

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...Right. I've tried, i added links, quotes, video to support what i'm saying and you REFUSE to see reason. You're so fanatical about this that you're too close minded to even bother continuing this..."conversation" isn't even the right word.

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Originally Posted by Abraxis

True, i'll give you that. But why would they specifically state that Rogues WERE Theives, only to revert back to what they came FROM?

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Probably because all of the guilds in Limsa evolved from illegal pirate organisations that had to drop the darker parts of their heritage in order to be a part of the city state.

Remember also that whilst joining a guild makes you one of many in the story, taking up a job is unique to the player in the lore. So the player would simply become a rogue then explore the guild's darker history and rediscover the thief skills... the rest of the rogue's guild would still be rogues.

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Originally Posted by Abraxis

...Right. I've tried, i added links, quotes, video to support what i'm saying and you REFUSE to see reason. You're so fanatical about this that you're too close minded to even bother continuing this..."conversation" isn't even the right word.

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First that quote said that Thieves do exist in the lore, but you sat and said everything would have to be reworked to even add Thief into the lore. Secondly the quote only saids that Rogues used to be Thieves. The key word here is "used" so then that means they are no Thieves anymore. They are a different thing than a Thief. Your quote actually supports more reason why Thief job should be in the game. Your evidence back fired which is why I won't believe your negative comments.

Secondly everyone or how about almost everyone has seen that "provided" video. There is nothing proving or backing up your weak points. Continue to look like a broken record though, no one is stopping you.

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Originally Posted by LoLo

First that quote said that Thieves do exist in the lore, but you sat and said everything would have to be reworked to even add Thief into the lore. Secondly the quote only saids that Rogues used to be Thieves. The key word here is "used" so then that means they are no Thieves anymore.

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There are no scholars anymore, yet you can become a scholar. There are no warriors in the city states of Eorzea, one came from another land to teach folks. If they want to add thief in the future as a job, all they have to do is put in a backstory for an npc that used to be one, but left when they started cracking down on them and they went into hiding as rogues.

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Originally Posted by Mcshiggs

There are no scholars anymore, yet you can become a scholar. There are no warriors in the city states of Eorzea, one came from another land to teach folks. If they want to add thief in the future as a job, all they have to do is put in a backstory for an npc that used to be one, but left when they started cracking down on them and they went into hiding as rogues.

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I think that was also used to explain the other jobs like Black Mage

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Originally Posted by LoLo

It would be nice if we could get a Devs to confirm if there are no plans to add a Thief Job into the game because of the Rogue class existing.


Is the Rogue class the FFXIV ARR's version of the Thief job describe in this link: http://finalfantasy.wikia.com/wiki/Thief_(Job)?


Is the Thief job ruled out of being added into FFXIV ARR because of lore reasons?


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Additional Questions I have that I would like answers to but don't mind if not to be answered:


Should people see the Ninja Job in FFXIV ARR as a Thief Job instead because the class that Ninja job comes from is named Rogue?


Why do city states like Limsa allow Pirates to roam freely and even participate in army campaigns but Thieves are not allow to be in the city?

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Re-posting my questions for the devs. :D

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Originally Posted by LoLo

Re-posting my questions for the devs. :D

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It's the Stigma, you have to think about it,you have a guild called the "Thieves Guild" the city-people are going to be like "oh so now we're gladly allowing adventuerers to learn how to steal my hard earned gil and product what kind of leader would allow sucha guild to be formed in the first place. How dare these foreign people come to our land, take our goods, take our hospitality and then spit it back in our face by providing others with the means and knowledge of stealing even more from us. How ungrateful are these homeless foreigners to seek refugee into our nation only to forsake us with such a guild".

Does that help at all? Maybe it makes more sense when you think of it from the logical sense of the townspeople looking at this new guild formed by a foreigner that came into the land offering nothing more than the promise of her peoples work ethics.

The story for Rogue will most likely capitalize on the idea of them being looked down upon because of their name and history as they try to attempt to make a good name for themselves to show them that they are no longer the crooked thieves from the past, now using their skills to help fight the empire and train others in their ways to show them how much they have changed.

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Originally Posted by Airget

It's the Stigma, you have to think about it,you have a guild called the "Thieves Guild" the city-people are going to be like "oh so now we're gladly allowing adventuerers to learn how to steal my hard earned gil and product what kind of leader would allow sucha guild to be formed in the first place.

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That would make alot of sense....until you see that Limsa Lominsa has the MARAUDERS guild that is pretty much a front for pirates....

What I don't understand is what this obsession with the name "Thief"? Whats the difference with a FFXI Thief and a FFXIV Rogue? Because right know all I see is people complaining of not getting Thief while Rogue seems pretty much the same to me.

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Originally Posted by Wilhem

What I don't understand is what this obsession with the name "Thief"? Whats the difference with a FFXI Thief and a FFXIV Rogue? Because right know all I see is people complaining of not getting Thief while Rogue seems pretty much the same to me.

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Thief is an iconic job/profession/archetype in previous Final Fantasy games. The name has been tied to the role of a thief and thievery for over 10 FF titles. It's really that simple. The Japanese description for Rogue labels them as "Dual Fencers" as well, not thieves. Hence the obsession.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by Wilhem

What I don't understand is what this obsession with the name "Thief"? Whats the difference with a FFXI Thief and a FFXIV Rogue? Because right know all I see is people complaining of not getting Thief while Rogue seems pretty much the same to me.

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The ability to play it at endgame, for the very starters. Seems like many iconic Thief abilities won't be included. It's not the same if you've ever played previous FFs. Definitely nowhere near as close as Marauder >> Warrior/Fighter.

Steal, Mug and Flee?

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Originally Posted by Exstal

Steal, Mug and Flee?

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Steal is a huge branch onto itself, then there's yokodama and hate control. That's also excluding all of the MMO specific things they could add that's new like they've done for every job, as both points have been explained multiple times.

It can't be iconic if it was only in a single game.