[dev 1021] [Suggestion] Please consider this SP loss system for Death

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Originally Posted by Lienn

I'm against it. EXP/SP loss never is a good idea.

Die as DoH while trying to deliver a local levequest and you might reconsider your idea ^^

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I, too, am against this idea. EXP loss is what made me quit FFXI in the end, it makes things too harsh when your death is caused by the carelessness of others AND EXP/SP is our character growth, what we work so hard for. I don't like having my reward being taken away.

So, please, never change the death system for EXP/SP loss. Thank you.

Personally I think not gaining xp during weakness is a decent idea. It never sets you back but still reminds you that there is something to lose...

Im tired of my hand being held. People who want an easy game, plz go play something else. You are bleeding the ff fanbase dry, when you get bored of this game because it offers no sense of urgency or accomplishment, i guess you will go find some other game to bitch to developers about having it dumbed down for the newby people who want a cake walk to the max rank/level... seriously.

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Originally Posted by Xzen

The problem is even in FFXI the death penalty didn't promote players to be any better. The bad players will still bad so it fails in that regard. Also when most of this games content is designed to WTF pwn you regardless of skill the harsh death penalty just flat out makes no sense. Making players stand around for 3 minutes with their hands in their pockets is within the tolerable threshold and punishment enough.

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I've faced xp loss only in Lineage 2, when the game had a 4% xp loss. When those 4% started to mean a full week of farming mobs, I started to be much more carefully and dedicated into not dieing uselessly by staying in healers range and keep my healer alive at all costs. Obviously bad players will remain bad players, that will happen with or without penaltys. But medium players will fell more motivated to learn how to properly do things when they start deleveling instead of leveling. My point of view...

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Originally Posted by Nakiamiie

I, too, am against this idea. EXP loss is what made me quit FFXI in the end, it makes things too harsh when your death is caused by the carelessness of others AND EXP/SP is our character growth, what we work so hard for. I don't like having my reward being taken away.

So, please, never change the death system for EXP/SP loss. Thank you.

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Do you know what happens in real life when you die? You guessed it, you die.
In my perfect concept of a game, death penalty would include the real chance of losing your character.
Does it seams too much for you? Diablo 2 have the Hardcore system where if u died it would be permanently, no second chances. And it still had an huge player base. But I'm not so rigid, I don't think that losing your character over death would be beneficial to a game (unless some very strict rigid conditions apply).

In final fantasy, saying I don't my "effort be taken away" finds a great solution in a death penalty system, and the solution is simply play better.



Also, thumbs up for Mugiwara. "Im tired of my hand being held" is exactly my thoughts, had enough of that in wow.

Are you saying our characters should be deleted if we die? No one would bother with this game if it was like that. Diablo 2, Hardcore mode was an option, thats why it still had a player base. if it were the only option, There would be a tiny handful of people that would bother with it.

Your grades at English or wtv native language you use must be realy low cus I clearly didn't said such a thing, so your interpretation skills are a bit low.

"I don't think that losing your character over death would be beneficial to a game (unless some very strict rigid conditions apply)." could I be more clear then these?

I'll rephrase it... no need to be a bad person I guess... I don't think losing your character would benefit final fantasy, it would only benefit a game where the proper conditions were assembled.

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Originally Posted by Reika

if it were the only option, There would be a tiny handful of people that would bother with it.

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Yah thats why no one played star wars galaxies, oh wait... ppl did played it... but yah at the end player base fallen to 10k and it was shuted down :P Still it sold 1 million copy's. In any case I've never considered losing a character as a viable option to final fantasy, less as the only option.

I've already stated that a 4% xp loss both physical and rank would be acceptable.

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Originally Posted by Allanon

So who do you think they should be targeting and who do you think will pay longer?

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The game wouldn't sustain itself with the current tiny cluster of "dedicated fans" so why in the name of all things sane would SE try to pander to just that cluster?

You know what's a FANTASTIC death penalty? Amazing rewards for living. When it comes to MMO difficulty, the ceiling should always be raised, not the floor.

WoW got to be as popular as it did because a braindead chimpanzee drunk on a case of beer could play the game, but there was enough difficult and challenging content throughout that the most hardcore of players could find something to love.

FFXIV doesn't need to be hard on basic things like dying. It needs to be hard in things like dungeons, NMs, PvP (even if it was just arena-based), and crafting.

MMO masochism is dead (at least it would be if a certain RMT-supporting Korean dev could let it die once and for all...).

I play games to have fun. Losing 10% of my exp (and effectively HOURS of my RL time) because of a spot of lag, server disconnect or some other stupid circumstance beyond my control is the polar opposite of fun.

If people want this game to be harder, look to make it hard where it SHOULD be hard, not enforce a minimum masochism threshold before a player can even participate in the game.

"WoW got to be as popular as it did because a braindead chimpanzee drunk on a case of beer could play the game"

By far, the best wow definition I've ever saw ahahahaha lawl.

I agree with you Richard in the point that there are many ways to make the game hard in a healthy way. Still i believe the fear of death should exist and players should be sort of afraid of dieing. I'm always hopen to new systems unless they are hand holding craps.

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Originally Posted by Dragonhand

I've faced xp loss only in Lineage 2, when the game had a 4% xp loss. When those 4% started to mean a full week of farming mobs, I started to be much more carefully and dedicated into not dieing uselessly by staying in healers range and keep my healer alive at all costs. Obviously bad players will remain bad players, that will happen with or without penaltys. But medium players will fell more motivated to learn how to properly do things when they start deleveling instead of leveling. My point of view...




Do you know what happens in real life when you die? You guessed it, you die.
In my perfect concept of a game, death penalty would include the real chance of losing your character.
Does it seams too much for you? Diablo 2 have the Hardcore system where if u died it would be permanently, no second chances. And it still had an huge player base. But I'm not so rigid, I don't think that losing your character over death would be beneficial to a game (unless some very strict rigid conditions apply).

In final fantasy, saying I don't my "effort be taken away" finds a great solution in a death penalty system, and the solution is simply play better.



Also, thumbs up for Mugiwara. "Im tired of my hand being held" is exactly my thoughts, had enough of that in wow.

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I've been playing MMOS since UO launch and experienced full loot PvP etc etc. To put it simply the mechanic does not make the game fun. In FFXI I have been in parties where I had lost entire levels which could mean a full weeks worth of work (before SE made it easy mode level up) all because one person in the group was a bad player. That wasn't fun and I don't have fond memories of it. Before you say anything about just tossing that player that was back when people were standing around for 5 hours just LFG to level so tossing some one right away for being a bad player wasn't really an option. While I have had fun in the past in games with harsh death penalties the penalties themselves in no way made the game more fun. A lot of people have also said "it makes it exciting" or "It gives me a rush" but the first thing I learned in those games was that getting "excited" or getting "a rush" often led to making mistakes. So the first step to becoming a better player was not feelling that way. Instead I enjoy the feeling of accomplishment to which the threat of losing a level or gear had no effect on.

The current system is fine. Why on earth would it make sense to punish players while playing the game? This isn't 1998 anymore. Death penalties in general are dumb. You still lose time when you die, if you're in a party it can cause a wipe which leads to more lost time. Making the even more extreme is just a punishment in a video game. It makes no sense. I guess the masochistic gamers might like it a bit, but honestly EQ and Darkfall are there for you. I could go into a large rant over people with jobs/little time/etc but it's been done to death. Death penalties are dumb and just another time sink and a bad one at that.

edit: The person above me hit the nail on the head.