Viper Changes Thread - Share your thoughts

I really liked how Noxious made you put a little effort into which button to press next; it gave the class some rythm between Reaving Fangs and Dread Fang, a meaningful choice in damage that took into account self awareness of your own cds, the debuff timers and when you would reawaken.
Now, it's just a back and forth triple button rotation that can be cast mindlessly. If the job had to be simplified, i'd rather they take positionals than rythm.

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Originally Posted by Kersplosion

You realize that you're admitting in your post, a thought, that you no longer have to have. And that one thought across a fight is an aspect of engagement that is now missing. It adds up.

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If you mean me? Not really See if red debuff number under 12. A nanosecond of thought. I was always more concerned over the mechanics of a fight, and when I'd be using True North due to them.

It's better now, I made a thread on it and I'm too tired to copypaste my thoughts on it, but TL;DR fundamentally viper plays almost the exact same. You don't have to worry about noxious gash anymore which makes it more flexible. Noxious gash was never a skill expression thing, it was an annoyance. The job was always ALWAYS easy and anyone who thinks it was at all difficult to play is deluding themselves, anyone who enjoyed having to upkeep the low 20s debuff timer of noxious gash is further deluding themselves

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Originally Posted by Komarimono

What was there to think about? Do I have 12 seconds left on debuff? If Yes, Reawaken Combo. If No? Hit Dreadfangs, then hit Reawaken Combo. Finish 123 Combo, by time second combo Finished, need to re-apply if Dreadwinder is ready. Dreadwinder not ready? Tap the button, go into Dreadwinder combo, then finish 123 combo.

I'm not seeing the complexity here. Ya just saw if ya had 10-12 seconds left, depending on what ability was about to be off cooldown. And I've never seen an overcap, or ever see a reason to.

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It was not much, but that bit of Gameplay is now gone, replaced with nothing. Alternating GCD. If you can not fathom that people actually wanted that tiny Debuff to track because it kept them engaging, because it made the class fun to them, then I really have no idea what else to tell you.

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Originally Posted by Leonus

It really wasn’t deep… at all. It was just a decision point. That’s it. Do I delay or not delay. It didn’t really add any complexity.

It’s weird how people in this game pretend that these classes have some deep hidden layer to them. This isn’t a deep hidden layer game. A lot of things are pretty surface level.

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The pretty surface level is to say "Do I delay or not delay."
In reality, there were a lot of nuances:

For example, you could use Dread Fangs (now Reaving Fangs) or Dreadwinder (now Vicewinder) to apply Noxious Gnash with different consequences depending if you had Reawaken soon or two Reawaken and if you go into Reawake you could continue your basic rotation if you out of it in time or not or you go Uncoiled Fury rotation, or you can go Dreadwinder rotation. Or maybe you want to cast Serpent's Ire and drop combo rotation. And there is only one correct choice to maximize DPS from all possible choices. Also, it played well with watching other buffs because they could run out too. If you do it incorrectly you just simply do more CDs than you need and you will lose DPS because combo fail. Also, combine this with boss mechanics and watching what the boss was doing and it was pretty deep and enjoyable.

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Originally Posted by ovIm

It was not much, but that bit of Gameplay is now gone, replaced with nothing. Alternating GCD. If you can not fathom that people actually wanted that tiny Debuff to track because it kept them engaging, because it made the class fun to them, then I really have no idea what else to tell you.

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Ya, never saw it as engaging. Maybe due to how my UI is so can easily see debuffs and track them without losing focus on the fight? Not sure. What I found to be far more engaging, like I said earlier, was the proper use of True North due to a fights mechanics. That was far more engaging to me, since being off one second and unable to change position, could mean bonus damage or not.

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Originally Posted by Komarimono

Ya, never saw it as engaging. Maybe due to how my UI is so can easily see debuffs and track them without losing focus on the fight? Not sure. What I found to be far more engaging, like I said earlier, was the proper use of True North due to a fights mechanics. That was far more engaging to me, since being off one second and unable to change position, could mean bonus damage or not.

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SHOCKER: you can move your debuffs and buffs in your UI and make them large, you can put them in the center of your screen or above your character head.

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Originally Posted by zaya_moya

SHOCKER: you can move your debuffs and buffs in your UI and make them large, you can put them in the center of your screen or above your character head.

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Ok, and? It was never hard to nor complex to keep the debuff up. So it being gone makes no difference.

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Originally Posted by Komarimono

Ok, and? It was never hard to nor complex to keep the debuff up. So it being gone makes no difference.

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Other jobs also have status effects to watch, for example, NIN or BLM and others.
VPR still have 2 status effects to watch, even though it is much easier, but if you not watching them means you are just a beginner and this doesn't apply to you and you do not need it to play VPR on a casual level, so why are you even writing here? You would do fine with Noxious Gnash because it doesn't matter on your level.

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Originally Posted by zaya_moya

The pretty surface level is to say "Do I delay or not delay."
In reality, there were a lot of nuances:

For example, you could use Dread Fangs (now Reaving Fangs) or Dreadwinder (now Vicewinder) to apply Noxious Gnash with different consequences depending if you had Reawaken soon or two Reawaken and if you go into Reawake you could continue your basic rotation if you out of it in time or not or you go Uncoiled Fury rotation, or you can go Dreadwinder rotation. Or maybe you want to cast Serpent's Ire and drop combo rotation. And there is only one correct choice to maximize DPS from all possible choices. Also, it played well with watching other buffs because they could run out too. If you do it incorrectly you just simply do more CDs than you need and you will lose DPS because combo fail. Also, combine this with boss mechanics and watching what the boss was doing and it was pretty deep and enjoyable.

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That’s because it is what it was.

People are pretending as though it’s deep, it wasn’t. It never would have been. People are turning into something that it’s not. The fight itself dictated way more than the debuff ever would have. However, do I delay or not delay is what noxious nash can be boiled down to. Just about every time.