What is Midcore? Why does it matter?

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Originally Posted by Tanis_Ebonhart

Casuals are content with normal and extreme difficulties.

Midcore are those building up to Savages. Extremes aren't a challenge for them anymore.

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Wut? o.O

"casuals" and "extremes"?

I think this is an example of someone being far enough out of the mainstream that they think the mainstream is more like them than it is.

Extremes are midcore content, and (depending on who you ask) on the higher end of midcore. No Savages are midcore aside from some of the 1/5/9 entry bosses for a tier. Generally speaking, casuals don't touch Extremes at all.

This is kind of like hearing a person who makes $500,000 a year commenting how everyone makes and spends at least $200,000 a year, not realizing the vast majority of the public doesn't even make six figures, and the poor sometimes don't even make 5. (There are tons of people that legitimately make less than $10k a year).

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Originally Posted by Sebazy

IMHO Alliance raids should reward players for a basic level of contribution. It doesn't have to be orange logs for loot. Just enough of a nudge to let players know what is an acceptable standard of play and what isn't. This could be something like a potency per second ranking at the end of the instance to remove gear from the equation and the reward could be as little as a simple S-F style tier ranking or as much as getting drop token towards an armor piece perhaps with more being granted for better performances? I don't think the level of the reward matters, what's important is letting players know what the game is going to expect of them as they progress through the tiers of endgame content so they are better prepared as they step up to Extremes etc.

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I don't see this ever happening because SE expects more experienced players are going to help the less experienced players. This runs counter to that idea. They let their encounter design determine any standard of play that they want to establish. Any other standards are community driven and I find it unlikely they're going to start implementing in-game recognition of that, especially because these standards deviate widely depending on the segment of the playerbase being considered.

Rightly or wrongly I just considee a midcore player to be a casual player who occasionally engages with the harder content associated with hardcore players.

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Originally Posted by DiaDeem

See... the fact that you're comparing those two in the same sentence tells me that you really have no idea what midcore means to the people who want that kind of content.

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The cracks are starting to show.. I even think Mr. Happy might be out of touch with what Medium / Midcore content actually looks like in an MMO - And what people may want.

I think Savage is used by Raiders to depict Midcore, sometimes even out of spite. But I accept their definition of EX and first tier as being a form of Midcore - So least we can agree there's not enough out there.

But I think it's really weird for people to consider Eureka and Bozja as Casual, when we all admit that only a about a quarter of the community has even managed to get through parts of it, whether out of some form of difficulty, or general frustration of the grind itself.

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Originally Posted by R041

The cracks are starting to show.. I even think Mr. Happy might be out of touch with what Medium / Midcore content actually looks like in an MMO - And what people may want.

I think Savage is used by Raiders to depict Midcore, sometimes even out of spite. But I accept their definition of EX and first tier as being a form of Midcore - So least we can agree there's not enough out there.

But I think it's really weird for people to consider Eureka and Bozja as Casual, when we all admit that only a about a quarter of the community has even managed to get through parts of it, whether out of some form of difficulty, or general frustration of the grind itself.

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Probably because there's a real distinction between a casual/midcore/hardcore player and casual/midcore/hardcore content. And that's not even getting into time based distinctions (how long do you play the game for, log in daily for several hours to once a week/fortnight).
If EX is midcore, I don't know what to say. Maybe some of them, maybe they used to be. EXs that require specific timed movement that results in party wipes (not just individual player deaths) if even just one person messes up, is not what I would call midcore content. But a hardcore player, used to savage and doing EX on release, will look at that and go: "yea, its easy, what's the problem?".

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Originally Posted by ChrysOCE

Probably because there's a real distinction between a casual/midcore/hardcore player and casual/midcore/hardcore content. And that's not even getting into time based distinctions (how long do you play the game for, log in daily for several hours to once a week/fortnight).
If EX is midcore, I don't know what to say. Maybe some of them, maybe they used to be. EXs that require specific timed movement that results in party wipes (not just individual player deaths) if even just one person messes up, is not what I would call midcore content. But a hardcore player, used to savage and doing EX on release, will look at that and go: "yea, its easy, what's the problem?".

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The problem is "Casual" doesn't mean bad. it just means "doesn't play as much".


You can have casual players who have ultimate clears because they are that skilled. You can have hardcore players that struggle in the story.


This has always been a problem in XIV for some reason. People use casual for "easy" and not time invested.

I think this may be influenced by when you first started playing. In ARR, everyone did everything. If you wanted to experience the Coil storyline, you did the Coil fights. So everyone and their chocobo did them, regardless of whether they were 'casual' or 'hardcore'. If you struggled with a fight, your friends helped you out at the end of the tier. The distinctions in playstyle came from how quickly you progressed through content, not based off whether you even tried them in the first place.

While Gordias may have put some people off of raiding, every tier released from Creator on has been very clearable on release for the average player, if you're willing to spend some time learning. It might take you a couple of days or six months, but you can get through it if you stick with it. I just think that rebranding the content as 'Savage' probably put some of the newer iterations of players off even trying at all, though, despite it being incredibly accessible. You do have to get over your fear of wiping groups though. Absolutely everyone will cause wipes. Just learn something new from each one.

I don't think that the statement that 'Extreme/Savage are aimed at the midcore playerbase' is intended to give offense. It's a statement of fact - pretty much anyone can work through it, given enough time. If you're not even getting your feet wet, how do you know how difficult it is to swim? What's being described is not even 'casual', it's just flat out non-participatory.

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Originally Posted by Valkyrie_Lenneth

The problem is "Casual" doesn't mean bad. it just means "doesn't play as much".


You can have casual players who have ultimate clears because they are that skilled. You can have hardcore players that struggle in the story.


This has always been a problem in XIV for some reason. People use casual for "easy" and not time invested.

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No, I wouldn't necessarily say it's bad either. But I do think there is a distinction between the player and the content and both can be and are different levels.

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Originally Posted by Lyth

I don't think that the statement that 'Extreme/Savage are aimed at the midcore playerbase' is intended to give offense. It's a statement of fact - pretty much anyone can work through it, given enough time. If you're not even getting your feet wet, how do you know how difficult it is to swim? What's being described is not even 'casual', it's just flat out non-participatory.

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I've given up on clearing GolbEx for the time being. I spent several weeks in it and could never find a party where at LEAST 3-4 people didn't die during Gales 2. It took about 3 weeks before I consistently got PF groups that could clear the first pushback well, and people would still mess up from time to time, causing a wipe. Gales 2 clears, even now, are mostly "a healer survived and used LB3", which only works...until Gales 3 hits.

I've just given up. Note I've cleared most Extremes ON PATCH (often within the first few weeks) since 5.0, and the ones I didn't, shortly after (usually due to busy life stuff since I was in the military for part of that time). This is the first Extreme in 4 years that I've just decided not to bother with after about two months of trying to find a functional PF group that could clear 5 body checks in a single fight and not finding one able to do so.

No, that's not midcore. That's hardcore. And it's not "non-participatory". I can't do two healer LB3s in a row to make up for party mistakes (and that's when I'm NOT the healer paired with someone mucking up the mechanics consistently enough I get one-shot by being the only person in my 2 man circle because my partner died to gales AGAIN and I die through absolutely no fault of my own and have NO WAY TO CORRECT FOR THIS no matter how skilled I am at my Job or the game).

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Originally Posted by Renathras

No, that's not midcore. That's hardcore. And it's not "non-participatory". I can't do two healer LB3s in a row to make up for party mistakes (and that's when I'm NOT the healer paired with someone mucking up the mechanics consistently enough I get one-shot by being the only person in my 2 man circle because my partner died to gales AGAIN and I die through absolutely no fault of my own and have NO WAY TO CORRECT FOR THIS no matter how skilled I am at my Job or the game).

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Agree completely