Please dont bring back Relic Quest Zones

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Originally Posted by Minarisweet

This makes me convinced xiv players don't like mmos.

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Yeah, I read a signature on the forums a bit ago that said something along the lines of "Eureka/Bozja are liked by people that love MMOs. They're hated by people that don't like MMOs." And it's pretty accurate. I'm one of the people that loved Eureka/Bozja and it's hardly the longest grind I've ever done in an MMO. Not counting the mentor mount I got as that wasn't something I actively grinded, my longest I think was getting exalted with Darnassus back when WoW was about a year old? I had to turn in 14,000 or so runecloth so I could get a cat mount. I also participated in my server's opening of AQ back in the olden days. (my guild wasn't getting a scepter, but we still helped with opening the gates)

I miss the community aspect that stuff like Eureka/Bozja bring to the game. Right now the game is quietly stand in Limsa for an hour before raid, maybe do a roulette, do raid, log out and play WoW or Baldur's Gate 3.

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Originally Posted by angienessyo

Yeah, I read a signature on the forums a bit ago that said something along the lines of "Eureka/Bozja are liked by people that love MMOs. They're hated by people that don't like MMOs." And it's pretty accurate. I'm one of the people that loved Eureka/Bozja and it's hardly the longest grind I've ever done in an MMO. Not counting the mentor mount I got as that wasn't something I actively grinded, my longest I think was getting exalted with Darnassus back when WoW was about a year old? I had to turn in 14,000 or so runecloth so I could get a cat mount. I also participated in my server's opening of AQ back in the olden days. (my guild wasn't getting a scepter, but we still helped with opening the gates)

I miss the community aspect that stuff like Eureka/Bozja bring to the game. Right now the game is quietly stand in Limsa for an hour before raid, maybe do a roulette, do raid, log out and play WoW or Baldur's Gate 3.

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Why can't the content be both socially invested and not be a long grind with minimal activities for it? If there were more options for progression in Eureka and Bozja then that would be fine by me. But there's no quests or dungeons or item crafting/turns or something else besides just being a group barely communicating anything substantial besides NM call outs. Again, I've ran this content from start to finish 4 times and everytime the social experience is generally the same. All I ask is for exploratory zones to have more things to do besides Fate farms. That's literally it.

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Originally Posted by Minarisweet

This makes me convinced xiv players don't like mmos.

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I feel ff14 has been focusing more into solo play and losing more of its mmo aspects since shadowbringers to bring in people who prefer singleplayer solo games.

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Originally Posted by angienessyo

Yeah, I read a signature on the forums a bit ago that said something along the lines of "Eureka/Bozja are liked by people that love MMOs. They're hated by people that don't like MMOs." And it's pretty accurate. I'm one of the people that loved Eureka/Bozja and it's hardly the longest grind I've ever done in an MMO. Not counting the mentor mount I got as that wasn't something I actively grinded, my longest I think was getting exalted with Darnassus back when WoW was about a year old? I had to turn in 14,000 or so runecloth so I could get a cat mount. I also participated in my server's opening of AQ back in the olden days. (my guild wasn't getting a scepter, but we still helped with opening the gates)

I miss the community aspect that stuff like Eureka/Bozja bring to the game. Right now the game is quietly stand in Limsa for an hour before raid, maybe do a roulette, do raid, log out and play WoW or Baldur's Gate 3.

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It's not completely accurate. I love MMOs. I dislike Eureka and Bozja for the experience I'm looking for in this game. I played EverQuest. I had my epic on at least 2 characters that I can remember but I think it was closer to 3 or 4. That was months of dedicated work and required high level raiding in that game. Eureka and Bozja hearken back to the old school experience of MMOs of that era where there were specific areas in a zone where players parked in groups and camped and grinded. They really tried that with Anemos where grouping was what everyone did until they discovered the FATE train. Then SE tried to kill the FATE train in Pagos.

But I dislike these zones because that's not the experience I'm looking for in XIV. I want something that is more accessible to interact with at my own pace and per my own preferences. There's a reason I say that I played EverQuest and it's not still play. I love tackling different content. I just want the freedom to tackle it when I want to, to the level that I want to, and with decent rewards for my time expended. My epics in EverQuest were great and useful but looking back now I really don't know that they were worth spending that much of my free time on. I just didn't know there were other options until MMOs started coming out that broke away from the idea of games of that generation. MMOs nowadays are a much different genre and throwbacks are fine, but they need to keep in mind the changing face of MMOs and how to appeal to more than just a niche group of players.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

It's not completely accurate. I love MMOs. I dislike Eureka and Bozja for the experience I'm looking for in this game. I played EverQuest. I had my epic on at least 2 characters that I can remember but I think it was closer to 3 or 4. That was months of dedicated work and required high level raiding in that game. Eureka and Bozja hearken back to the old school experience of MMOs of that era where there were specific areas in a zone where players parked in groups and camped and grinded. They really tried that with Anemos where grouping was what everyone did until they discovered the FATE train. Then SE tried to kill the FATE train in Pagos.

But I dislike these zones because that's not the experience I'm looking for in XIV. I want something that is more accessible to interact with at my own pace and per my own preferences. There's a reason I say that I played EverQuest and it's not still play. I love tackling different content. I just want the freedom to tackle it when I want to, to the level that I want to, and with decent rewards for my time expended. My epics in EverQuest were great and useful but looking back now I really don't know that they were worth spending that much of my free time on. I just didn't know there were other options until MMOs started coming out that broke away from the idea of games of that generation. MMOs nowadays are a much different genre and throwbacks are fine, but they need to keep in mind the changing face of MMOs and how to appeal to more than just a niche group of players.

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Remove the part where you work and group together in content for such rewards and progression like Eureka and Bozja, or hell even including the option to not do so, would near kill the actual socialization aspect, which is part of the appeal to begin with.

If the content isn't for me, and I don't like it, I don't do it. That's why I haven't done Island Sanctuary. Not every single thing in this game has to be centered with single player in mind. I'm playing an MMO, I want at least some content where I need to group up and work with others in an open zone that actually feels like a threat. The relics, the armor or glam that comes with these just happens to be perfect motivaters alongside the progression and just giving me that classic MMO feel. It is literally one piece of content compared to the rest of the game which is by far some of the most accessible content I've ever seen, let us that enjoy this have it.

I've said this in the past and I will here. You should be able to get the relic with another method outside of these zones, not just one or the other. There's plenty of other content with other rewards.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

It's not completely accurate. I love MMOs. I dislike Eureka and Bozja for the experience I'm looking for in this game. I played EverQuest. I had my epic on at least 2 characters that I can remember but I think it was closer to 3 or 4. That was months of dedicated work and required high level raiding in that game. Eureka and Bozja hearken back to the old school experience of MMOs of that era where there were specific areas in a zone where players parked in groups and camped and grinded. They really tried that with Anemos where grouping was what everyone did until they discovered the FATE train. Then SE tried to kill the FATE train in Pagos.

But I dislike these zones because that's not the experience I'm looking for in XIV. I want something that is more accessible to interact with at my own pace and per my own preferences. There's a reason I say that I played EverQuest and it's not still play. I love tackling different content. I just want the freedom to tackle it when I want to, to the level that I want to, and with decent rewards for my time expended. My epics in EverQuest were great and useful but looking back now I really don't know that they were worth spending that much of my free time on. I just didn't know there were other options until MMOs started coming out that broke away from the idea of games of that generation. MMOs nowadays are a much different genre and throwbacks are fine, but they need to keep in mind the changing face of MMOs and how to appeal to more than just a niche group of players.

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First of all, I feel that this is a good counter argument against Eureka and Bozja because of the fact that people who enjoyed old school MMO experiences would most likely still find FFXIV's exploratory zones lackluster in general. I've mentioned my criticism before but again, the main issue behind Eureka and Bozja is that there's not much else going on with its design. Its so open-faced in its grind unlike say classic World of Warcraft or Everquest or OSRS where they dress up those grinds with various activities and options to approach its progression that it feels like a game. Eureka and Bozja DOES NOT feel like a game, its feels like a long chore and I understand that this is such a hard pill to swallow but monotonous grinds should not be the standard for MMO content.

Look at it this way, Baldur's Gate 3 the newest most praised rpg on the market right now. Its hailed as a meaty, comprehensive return to form of what rpg enthusiasts desperately sought for. Guess what it lacks? long boring grinds or battle passes to pad out the content for the sake of player retention. Did you need to grind levels in BG3? No. Did you need to slowly churn the same boring activity to get to the good parts? No.

We can also look at another classic game; Chrono Trigger where the game lacked the need for grinds, it was short, it was paced incredibly well and you always moved forward rather than staying stuck in 1000. A.D for levels just to get to next area.

I know. These two games Ive listed arent MMOs but most of us are no longer little kids whom had all the time in the world with little responsibility, we're grown adults likely with families and jobs and very little time to game; and I think the future of MMOs is to move past obvious retention systems just to keep us subbed. Am I saying that current FFXIV is doing this part well? Ehhh...I mean, not really? There's some content that could've used more cooking in the oven or more meat in its bones but at the very least its taking that step in the right direction.

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Originally Posted by Atelier-Bagur

First of all, I feel that this is a good counter argument against Eureka and Bozja because of the fact that people who enjoyed old school MMO experiences would most likely still find FFXIV's exploratory zones lackluster in general. I've mentioned my criticism before but again, the main issue behind Eureka and Bozja is that there's not much else going on with its design. Its so open-faced in its grind unlike say classic World of Warcraft or Everquest or OSRS where they dress up those grinds with various activities and options to approach its progression that it feels like a game. Eureka and Bozja DOES NOT feel like a game, its feels like a long chore and I understand that this is such a hard pill to swallow but monotonous grinds should not be the standard for MMO content.

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The last point is subjective, but I will agree on one thing. Being that they could evolve the content beyond what it was with Eureka and Bozja, which is why I'd say they could technically take this into the zones we already have (In Dawntrail's case, it would be Dawntrail zones) and use the assets used for the zones (like anemos, Zadnor, etc.) to expand upon those. They should definitely keep the CE system, while I prefer Eureka, that's one thing I can say Bozja did really well.

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Originally Posted by Zairava

Remove the part where you work and group together in content for such rewards and progression like Eureka and Bozja, or hell even including the option to not do so, would near kill the actual socialization aspect, which is part of the appeal to begin with.

If the content isn't for me, and I don't like it, I don't do it. That's why I haven't done Island Sanctuary. Not every single thing in this game has to be centered with single player in mind. I'm playing an MMO, I want at least some content where I need to group up and work with others in an open zone that actually feels like a threat. The relics, the armor or glam that comes with these just happens to be perfect motivaters alongside the progression and just giving me that classic MMO feel. It is literally one piece of content compared to the rest of the game which is by far some of the most accessible content I've ever seen, let us that enjoy this have it.

I've said this in the past and I will here. You should be able to get the relic with another method outside of these zones, not just one or the other. There's plenty of other content with other rewards.

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So would you be okay with not having the relic questline associated with it? It can be an option to complete steps, but have the relic questline as its own thing, not tied to the zones? I've seen a lot of people who support Eureka and Bozja but also want to force others into this content because they think the relic should belong exclusively to it now, nevermind that it was only that way for 2 expansions.

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Originally Posted by TaleraRistain

So would you be okay with not having the relic questline associated with it? It can be an option to complete steps, but have the relic questline as its own thing, not tied to the zones? I've seen a lot of people who support Eureka and Bozja but also want to force others into this content because they think the relic should belong exclusively to it now, nevermind that it was only that way for 2 expansions.

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For clarification, I want the relic to be tied to it but ALSO provide another means of getting outside of it for the people disinterested in that content.

So let me bring Eureka for example. Eureka is by far my favorite relic acquisition and progression in the game. People who want to get them through the Eureka would be able to do so.

Now lets say that they ALSO have another method of obtaining them..lets say 2000 of the former tome currency NOT poetics, people who prefer that can do so.

I think the Eureka and Bozja style content is great! Though I have not had the chance to finish Eureka, I utterly loved Bozja. I was pretty casual in it too, but I enjoyed the community aspect as well as the nice difficulty it had. The dungeons were some of the best I went through, though I wished you could've cued for them like a normal dungeon instead of waiting for them to spawn and hoping that it filled up.
I do agree that they should probably add more variety to it as well. I would say that something that would combine Bozja's skirmishes with hunt trains instead of Fates could be interesting. Something like hunting for these monsters across the map that could be soloed at higher levels, but needing a group early on could be interesting. And if you defeat enough mobs you might get invited by something like a noble Monster who would challenge your might in a 1v1 like the duels in Bozja. Just an idea.

Regardless, even if some don't enjoy this kind of more grindy content, it should still be made for people who do.