I never said you were required to use sprint for any dungeon boss fight, the point of my post was to let tanks know that this is a multiplayer game and you can't just ignore the rest of the party. The same goes for every other role, everyone needs to have a some amount of situational awareness. Maybe RL stuff happens and distracts the healer for a few seconds like a cat jumping on a keyboard, or maybe their sprint is on cooldown, the reasoning doesn't matter, both tanks and healers and even the DPS need to pay attention to each others current situation. Instead of blaming an individual by saying, "we wiped because of a mistake you made, you shouldn't have used sprint during the boss fight." People can instead take group responsibility without pointing fingers at each other.Quote:
Originally Posted by winsock
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09-08-2017, 03:01 AMFtail
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09-08-2017, 03:03 AMFtail
Part 2:
I think OP is blaming tanks for this like you said, which goes back to my previous point of taking group responsibility for errors being made on both sides, but at the same time I think he is making some valid points. I don't entirely agree with him, but I see his point of view and the point he is trying to make.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ftail
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09-08-2017, 01:11 PMBourne_EndeavorI... I think I may have been that tank? I remember macro like that! Although, that was more a "Right! Forgot she hadn't cast Protect yet"Quote:
Originally Posted by Tridus
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09-08-2017, 08:45 PMwinsockAs I said before, if the tank can prevent the wipe/deaths they should.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ftail
The problem with your logic is that you are blaming the tank for ignoring the party by not adjusting for the distracted healer, and immediately make excuses for the healer when they ignore the party. What if a tank doesn't see the healer fall behind and can't compensate for the healer's negligence because the tank was partially distracted by something in RL like a cat?
Why is the "point of your post" to let tanks know they can't ignore the party, instead of letting healers know they can't ignore the party? -
09-08-2017, 11:42 PMTridusOh cool. :DQuote:
Originally Posted by Bourne_Endeavor
I believe that almost every time it happens it's because someone forgot about it, like you said. If you're not healing that dungeon, it's easy to forget its there because you never have to think about it. Pretty happy to say that zero people have run off and missed Protect since I added that in. -
09-09-2017, 03:40 AMFtailIt's called having situational awareness, if you want to be a good player you need to have it. You don't even need to turn your camera around to look as you can just peek at your minimap for the other players positions.Quote:
Originally Posted by winsock
I never blamed only the tanks, please actually read my posts.Quote:
Originally Posted by winsock
If you want to point fingers and only blame the healer for the tank sprinting off and dying when the healers sprint is on cooldown, go ahead. Personally, I'll lay blame at both the healer and tanks feet as they both share part of the blame.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ftail
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09-09-2017, 04:30 AMwinsockAlternatively, the healer could keep up.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ftail
I am referring to: "the point of my post was to let tanks know that this is a multiplayer game and you can't just ignore the rest of the party"Quote:
I never blamed only the tanks, please actually read my posts.
Why tanks?
Personally, I don't think it's right to blame the tank for failing to adjust for the healer's mistake. Just like I won't blame a healer if a dps dies to avoidable dmg.Quote:
If you want to point fingers and only blame the healer for the tank sprinting off and dying when the healers sprint is on cooldown, go ahead. Personally, I'll lay blame at both the healer and tanks feet as they both share part of the blame.
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09-09-2017, 01:03 PMFtailActually, when a tank is using sprint and the healer doesn't have it up it's simply not possible to "keep up".Quote:
Originally Posted by winsock
I'm convinced you didn't read my post except for the very first sentence before posting your outrage.Quote:
Originally Posted by winsock
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ftail
That comparison isn't even relevant, if you want to falsely believe that everything is the healers fault when a tank sprints off ignoring that the healer is having trouble keeping up because sprint was on cooldown and dies alone because of it, go ahead.Quote:
Originally Posted by winsock
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09-09-2017, 01:19 PMFtail
Winsock if you want to have an intellectually honest debate, I'm down for that. However, I am not solely blaming tanks so please stop taking my quotes out of context and read my entire message please. If a tank sprints off and dies alone because the healer couldn't keep up, it's the healers fault for not keeping up and the tanks fault for ignoring that his healer was falling far behind. I'm not laying blame solely on the tanks and to imply that I am doing so, is incredibly intellectually dishonest. I honestly can't even remember the last time I wiped in a 4 man dungeon, but this idea that everything is always the healers fault from your own perspective is an incredibly disgusting attitude to have.
This is a team based game, not a 1 man solo show. If a tank decides to sprint off solo and die, because the healers sprint was on cooldown or maybe because the healer popped sprint late, tanks also have a responsibility to pay attention to their group. Just as the rest of the group needs to pay attention to the tank. I've made my stance abundantly clear, so I'm leaving this thread now, have fun taking my posts out of context again.Quote:
Originally Posted by winsock
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09-09-2017, 09:11 PMwinsockOkay, so intellectual debate. Should a player be blamed for failing to correct a mistake made by another player? In my opinion, no. If the mistake is corrected, that is icing on the cake.Quote:
Originally Posted by Ftail
Here is a scenario that isn't exactly common, but certainly happens enough to be used as an example:
A tank begins a big pull, tagging mobs along the way. A DPS pulls one of the mobs off the tank, and the tank will not be able to regain threat via a ranged ability. This is fairly 'normal' within the scope of issues that can potentially happen, and most DPS know that they can drop the mob off on the tank at the end of the pull to recover without any significant issues should they accidentally pull.
The tank is faced with a decision. Do they stop the pull short and backtrack a bit to recover the dropped add? Or do they assume the DPS will correct their mistake themselves? The DPS isnt currently moving, but that isn't a reliable indicator. Sometimes the DPS just wants to use XYZ ability before continuing. The tank decides the DPS probably knows how to correct their mistake and continues the pull normally.
The healer notices that distance has increased between one of the dps and the tank. The healer knows for sure that the tank will die if they don't follow, but that the dps might okay. The DPS may end up pulling the mob to the group, but even if they dont, they might be able to take it solo and not need a healer, so the healer decides to follow the tank.
Several seconds pass, the DPS dies, but the pull is ultimately successful, despite being slower having only 1 dps.
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In my opinion, the DPS is the only one at fault here. When this happens in game, I dont make an issue of it, but inform the DPS that if they do accidently pull, they can pull the mob to the tank to recover.
In no way would I fault the healer or the tank for the dps dying, and dont believe the dps has any justification in crying "where were my heals?" or "why didn't you hold threat?"
Do you think the tank and healer hold blame in this scenario?